Are you a troll? Cause if your an Aussie then unless your aboriginal, chances are pretty high that your ancestors came on a boat too. Go spend some time with joe cross matey, shame on you.
I don’t know what’s going on there, but there seems to be some kind of latent underlying racial/ethnic tension in the squeaky-clean-chewing-gum-free-but-not-cheap-labour-free-money-laundromat-city-state of Singhapura!
I am happy for you, Greg Sydney that you were able to leave. However I wish to point out that you have just made a sweeping statement there that all Singaporeans are brainwashed and are unable to think for themselves. Given the fact that there are a range of opinions ( which may be lacking in compassion such as Antz’s reply to others calling for improving the living conditions of these migrant workers), I am not sure how you came to the conclusion that Singaporeans are a bunch of sheep & complacent pliable people. In all honesty, your comment flies in the face of the evidence. This then begs the question as to why such a sweeping statement was made. Is it because you have issues integrating into your new home country that you have to resort to sweeping statements to distance yourself and maintain some veneer of identity?
Please, look around! Many other countries have political problems comparable to Thailand. Doesn’t your description of the Thaksin-type leader suit Silvio Berlusconi perfectly? And how many times was he reelected and in power? So, what are we talking about? Corruption? Legal systems that are insufficient to ban irresponsible or dishonest behaviours in public office? Look at Greece, Spain or other European countries. This is not an exclusive thai problem, it’s happening elsewhere. Even if Thaksin were evil, as some think, the answer is always a political one: more democracy, responsibility, transparency, not less. Those easily bought ‘masses’ insist on their ‘errors’? Maybe changing the political agenda to include them in real debates and public policies, to make them feel part of the nation, would help. You have to change some laws to avoid corrupt leaders staying in politics? OK, why not. How to stop the Thaksin system? Look around! Win elections! Not a new Mussolini, a coup or Suthep and his people’s council.
Thank you Nick for such an engaging reading. It is as if I was at the scene. I wonder if the guys, who were “caught” on camera while trying to poke a stick through Buses’ window, have been identified? Was there any charge being laid on them at all?
Though it’s kind of side track, can I also explore more on Sam Deedes on the question:
“2. Another thing that has bothered me for a long time is why vocational students in Thailand are so often thuggish. Is it true that vocational training sometimes was/is used as a punishment for criminal activity? Could this have anything to do with it? There must be a reason somewhere.”
I’m not sure if it is true that vocational training sometimes was/is used as a punishment for criminal activity. Looking back on my experience of being educated in Thai Vocational school for 3 years, it felt like I was treated differently to students in mainstream schools by ordinary Thais. We were regarded as having practical skills i.e. type writing, doing short hand, fixing things mechanically, etc but less on intellectual side of thing. It’s not uncommon to have classmates who come from rather poor, marginalised and disenfranchised families. Vocational school is a place that suits its students’ needs the most because they can spend half day either in the morning or afternoon working part-time paying for their own school fees or help relieving family’s financial burden. So long story short, we have these guys who the society sees them as “second-class” citizens and to make it worse there is a long tradition of “normalizing violent behaviour” in some campuses which I guess is one of the ways to exercise their power by force. And before we know it, they have already flirted with fascism and become militant useful idiots for the Powerfuls.
This is a coup except is not front by the military or the court.
PM YL never had a chance as she is not capable to bring institution such as military, privy council, court and etc…to stand solitary to face the organize coup.
The fight to be in the driver seat with the expected succession that will eventually take place.
Privy council appear to be the control tower.
TK is aware but the game is ongoing and the fight will continue for some time.
I just felt that this article is a fallacy. While foreign workers are humans, so are Singaporeans not humans, borned in any other planets? We do have emotions, although we (Singaporeans) are oppressed. We felt very frustrated as well. However, we do not vent anger anyhow. We do not mind taking the low end jobs. However, due to our inflation and standard of living. We are unable to fend ourselves & our family with the lowly income. Our houses already cost us a bomb, paying all the way till we die. Looking into Gini Coefficient of last year, our poverty are quite high in a well to do nation. The poor becomes poorer, the rich becomes richer. As mentioned by someone, when there is problem(the ambulance is late), one can consider to solve a problem by not creating another problem. Throwing tantrum like a kid is done only in children’s playground. As mentioned above, I personally do not blame how the foreign workers behave. I only blame the 60% of ourselves (voters) for giving trust to the policy makers who made a wrong move in allowing a huge influx of foreign workers and converted a lot of them into Singaporeans. They are educated by the Singapore Government. I am not surprise & I do expect more riots, as it is not handled well initially by them. Singaporeans are too unhappy on how much rice bowl jobs are taken by foreign workers. We vent all our frustration by upgrading and going through higher education to feed our Families. And you do realise a lot of us are becoming single as we are equipped with knowledge that if we can’t even feed ourselves with daily bread & butter, how about giving wonderful lives for our offsprings. We kept quiet…oppressed…some of people even thought that we are too “submissive” people. We do really try our best. As compared to certain countries’ history, there are even ku klux clan or something like that, out to discriminate & slaughter innocent people of minority race. Instead, we are peace living people, although we, like many humans, might have certain sentiments due to coincidental bad experiences. If the foreign workers do obey the rules over here, it should be fine. Every country have their rules & regulations. Go through the right channel, outsource & ask around before making an ass of u & me (called “ass.u.me”).
This is a coup except it is not front by the military and the court but is the same people that design the 2006 coup.
PM YL has never a chance to get all these institutions to stand as solitary to face the protester given Suthep boldness to declare such unconstitutional suggestion.
The fight is to ensure driver seat even with the expected succession that would eventually take place.
Privy council appear to be the control tower.
I am sure TK is aware but the game is ongoing and the fight will continue for some time.
Oh, I suppose they should stay home and continue to suck their thumbs, acting like any “Ban Nock Idiot.” That is what Bangkok people wanted the provincial and rural people to be like- NO VOICE, NO REPRESENTATION!
Vichay,
Your reference to deceased red supporters as ‘goats’ speaks volumes for your level of intellect and ability to respect the lives of your fellow countrymen. Buddha help our country if it falls into the hands of people like you.
It makes me wonder that in all this time, and particularly when Abhisit had the power, why the Democrats made no effort to win popular support by serving all of Thailand interests instead of just the Bangkok elite.
You’d think after 20 years of losing elections they’d try something different.
Thank you for your (presumed) support: I would add that Thais are fed up with being taught to be dumb by the current Confucian-based education system: The magnitude of the formal education system failure (notwithstanding the ‘show-ponies regularly trotted out)may be gauged from the opinion of the Thai HR manager I am currently working with at Latkrabang Industrial Estate i.e. the quality of job applicants is worse than 10 years ago. As an educator (Bilingual English Language Instructor), I despair at the inability of otherwise very intelligent people to think for themselves in the context of a Western environment e.g. my classroom. Food for Thought: Malaysia has been recruiting Western educated foreigners to train local teachers, not students.
That shooter the Red Shirts had captured, with photos courtesy of Nostitz, bothers me because after the capture, the whole matter had been forgotten. By the Reds and by the Red leadership themselves! wtf?
The shooter is middle-aged and he is ugly and he looks like a mercenary to me or a policeman or a black shirt. Who is he? Surely by now we have identified the shooter?
Nostitz the journalist must investigate further. Or else my suspicion remains that this shooter, and those shooters and snipers at Ramkhamhaeng U and Rajmangala stadium, shooting at RU students and shooting at Reds too (according to accounts of Nostitz), were indeed black shirts.
A Channel TV reporter was actually at the scene (shown on morning TV the following morning after the shooting) and he got a clear footage of a van, stopping right in front of Ramkhamhaeng U gates and the first man coming out throwing a grenade in the direction of the university, and the men coming out of the van armed (gunfire and explosions could be heard in that footage).
Does anyone have any concrete data on wage differentials (and other benefits), working and living conditions between migrant workers in Singapore and poor Singaporeans? It could provide some context for the discussions here i.e. is it wages & working conditions alone, or is it something else.
For example, if there are equal number of poor migrant workers and poor Singaporeans — why don’t poor Singaporeans behave in this manner when untoward things happen to them?
Some data on Singapore poor:
Some 105,000 households in Singapore – that’s one in 10 family homes, or 387,000 people – earn an average monthly income of $1,323 and some 114,000 individual residents earn less than $805 a month.
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Stop and think: Lessons from Little India
Are you a troll? Cause if your an Aussie then unless your aboriginal, chances are pretty high that your ancestors came on a boat too. Go spend some time with joe cross matey, shame on you.
Stop and think: Lessons from Little India
I don’t know what’s going on there, but there seems to be some kind of latent underlying racial/ethnic tension in the squeaky-clean-chewing-gum-free-but-not-cheap-labour-free-money-laundromat-city-state of Singhapura!
Ramkhamhaeng: A view from inside the stadium
Great to see your reporting again Nick! Very insightful.
Stop and think: Lessons from Little India
Shall we all go back to Africa?
I thought homo sapiens (even the Neanderthals an the Denisovans) came out of Africa.
Stop and think: Lessons from Little India
I am happy for you, Greg Sydney that you were able to leave. However I wish to point out that you have just made a sweeping statement there that all Singaporeans are brainwashed and are unable to think for themselves. Given the fact that there are a range of opinions ( which may be lacking in compassion such as Antz’s reply to others calling for improving the living conditions of these migrant workers), I am not sure how you came to the conclusion that Singaporeans are a bunch of sheep & complacent pliable people. In all honesty, your comment flies in the face of the evidence. This then begs the question as to why such a sweeping statement was made. Is it because you have issues integrating into your new home country that you have to resort to sweeping statements to distance yourself and maintain some veneer of identity?
Who can stop the Thaksin system?
Please, look around! Many other countries have political problems comparable to Thailand. Doesn’t your description of the Thaksin-type leader suit Silvio Berlusconi perfectly? And how many times was he reelected and in power? So, what are we talking about? Corruption? Legal systems that are insufficient to ban irresponsible or dishonest behaviours in public office? Look at Greece, Spain or other European countries. This is not an exclusive thai problem, it’s happening elsewhere. Even if Thaksin were evil, as some think, the answer is always a political one: more democracy, responsibility, transparency, not less. Those easily bought ‘masses’ insist on their ‘errors’? Maybe changing the political agenda to include them in real debates and public policies, to make them feel part of the nation, would help. You have to change some laws to avoid corrupt leaders staying in politics? OK, why not. How to stop the Thaksin system? Look around! Win elections! Not a new Mussolini, a coup or Suthep and his people’s council.
Ramkhamhaeng: A view from inside the stadium
The story written and the photographs do not seem to match. Why?
Ramkhamhaeng: A view from inside the stadium
Great reporting Nik keep up the good work.
Brendan.
Ramkhamhaeng: A view from inside the stadium
Thank you Nick for such an engaging reading. It is as if I was at the scene. I wonder if the guys, who were “caught” on camera while trying to poke a stick through Buses’ window, have been identified? Was there any charge being laid on them at all?
Though it’s kind of side track, can I also explore more on Sam Deedes on the question:
“2. Another thing that has bothered me for a long time is why vocational students in Thailand are so often thuggish. Is it true that vocational training sometimes was/is used as a punishment for criminal activity? Could this have anything to do with it? There must be a reason somewhere.”
I’m not sure if it is true that vocational training sometimes was/is used as a punishment for criminal activity. Looking back on my experience of being educated in Thai Vocational school for 3 years, it felt like I was treated differently to students in mainstream schools by ordinary Thais. We were regarded as having practical skills i.e. type writing, doing short hand, fixing things mechanically, etc but less on intellectual side of thing. It’s not uncommon to have classmates who come from rather poor, marginalised and disenfranchised families. Vocational school is a place that suits its students’ needs the most because they can spend half day either in the morning or afternoon working part-time paying for their own school fees or help relieving family’s financial burden. So long story short, we have these guys who the society sees them as “second-class” citizens and to make it worse there is a long tradition of “normalizing violent behaviour” in some campuses which I guess is one of the ways to exercise their power by force. And before we know it, they have already flirted with fascism and become militant useful idiots for the Powerfuls.
The king’s birthday speech
This is a coup except is not front by the military or the court.
PM YL never had a chance as she is not capable to bring institution such as military, privy council, court and etc…to stand solitary to face the organize coup.
The fight to be in the driver seat with the expected succession that will eventually take place.
Privy council appear to be the control tower.
TK is aware but the game is ongoing and the fight will continue for some time.
Stop and think: Lessons from Little India
I just felt that this article is a fallacy. While foreign workers are humans, so are Singaporeans not humans, borned in any other planets? We do have emotions, although we (Singaporeans) are oppressed. We felt very frustrated as well. However, we do not vent anger anyhow. We do not mind taking the low end jobs. However, due to our inflation and standard of living. We are unable to fend ourselves & our family with the lowly income. Our houses already cost us a bomb, paying all the way till we die. Looking into Gini Coefficient of last year, our poverty are quite high in a well to do nation. The poor becomes poorer, the rich becomes richer. As mentioned by someone, when there is problem(the ambulance is late), one can consider to solve a problem by not creating another problem. Throwing tantrum like a kid is done only in children’s playground. As mentioned above, I personally do not blame how the foreign workers behave. I only blame the 60% of ourselves (voters) for giving trust to the policy makers who made a wrong move in allowing a huge influx of foreign workers and converted a lot of them into Singaporeans. They are educated by the Singapore Government. I am not surprise & I do expect more riots, as it is not handled well initially by them. Singaporeans are too unhappy on how much rice bowl jobs are taken by foreign workers. We vent all our frustration by upgrading and going through higher education to feed our Families. And you do realise a lot of us are becoming single as we are equipped with knowledge that if we can’t even feed ourselves with daily bread & butter, how about giving wonderful lives for our offsprings. We kept quiet…oppressed…some of people even thought that we are too “submissive” people. We do really try our best. As compared to certain countries’ history, there are even ku klux clan or something like that, out to discriminate & slaughter innocent people of minority race. Instead, we are peace living people, although we, like many humans, might have certain sentiments due to coincidental bad experiences. If the foreign workers do obey the rules over here, it should be fine. Every country have their rules & regulations. Go through the right channel, outsource & ask around before making an ass of u & me (called “ass.u.me”).
The king’s birthday speech
This is a coup except it is not front by the military and the court but is the same people that design the 2006 coup.
PM YL has never a chance to get all these institutions to stand as solitary to face the protester given Suthep boldness to declare such unconstitutional suggestion.
The fight is to ensure driver seat even with the expected succession that would eventually take place.
Privy council appear to be the control tower.
I am sure TK is aware but the game is ongoing and the fight will continue for some time.
Ramkhamhaeng: A view from inside the stadium
Oh, I suppose they should stay home and continue to suck their thumbs, acting like any “Ban Nock Idiot.” That is what Bangkok people wanted the provincial and rural people to be like- NO VOICE, NO REPRESENTATION!
Ramkhamhaeng: A view from inside the stadium
Vichay,
Your reference to deceased red supporters as ‘goats’ speaks volumes for your level of intellect and ability to respect the lives of your fellow countrymen. Buddha help our country if it falls into the hands of people like you.
Thailand’s 2013 protests in comparison
Thank you for the excellent analysis Aim.
It makes me wonder that in all this time, and particularly when Abhisit had the power, why the Democrats made no effort to win popular support by serving all of Thailand interests instead of just the Bangkok elite.
You’d think after 20 years of losing elections they’d try something different.
Who can stop the Thaksin system?
Thank you for your (presumed) support: I would add that Thais are fed up with being taught to be dumb by the current Confucian-based education system: The magnitude of the formal education system failure (notwithstanding the ‘show-ponies regularly trotted out)may be gauged from the opinion of the Thai HR manager I am currently working with at Latkrabang Industrial Estate i.e. the quality of job applicants is worse than 10 years ago. As an educator (Bilingual English Language Instructor), I despair at the inability of otherwise very intelligent people to think for themselves in the context of a Western environment e.g. my classroom. Food for Thought: Malaysia has been recruiting Western educated foreigners to train local teachers, not students.
Ramkhamhaeng: A view from inside the stadium
Channel 7 TV I mean.
Ramkhamhaeng: A view from inside the stadium
That shooter the Red Shirts had captured, with photos courtesy of Nostitz, bothers me because after the capture, the whole matter had been forgotten. By the Reds and by the Red leadership themselves! wtf?
The shooter is middle-aged and he is ugly and he looks like a mercenary to me or a policeman or a black shirt. Who is he? Surely by now we have identified the shooter?
Nostitz the journalist must investigate further. Or else my suspicion remains that this shooter, and those shooters and snipers at Ramkhamhaeng U and Rajmangala stadium, shooting at RU students and shooting at Reds too (according to accounts of Nostitz), were indeed black shirts.
A Channel TV reporter was actually at the scene (shown on morning TV the following morning after the shooting) and he got a clear footage of a van, stopping right in front of Ramkhamhaeng U gates and the first man coming out throwing a grenade in the direction of the university, and the men coming out of the van armed (gunfire and explosions could be heard in that footage).
Stop and think: Lessons from Little India
Does anyone have any concrete data on wage differentials (and other benefits), working and living conditions between migrant workers in Singapore and poor Singaporeans? It could provide some context for the discussions here i.e. is it wages & working conditions alone, or is it something else.
For example, if there are equal number of poor migrant workers and poor Singaporeans — why don’t poor Singaporeans behave in this manner when untoward things happen to them?
Some data on Singapore poor:
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/11/singapore-poverty-spotlight-20131178362669442.html
Thailand’s elite coup culture
“the Thai Press is FREE, critical and interesting”
In Thai maybe. In English however, both BP and the Nation are undeniably very partial.