Perhaps it’s the academe bias of this site, but for me it is difficult to understand the passionate support the Red Shirts elicit from some Westerners. Remembering a discussion I had in Bangkok in 2010 when my argumented (or not) defense of Abhisit actions almost got me kicked out of a closed-down bar during the curfew.
I’m very interested in what you’ve said in your posts here and am impressed by the degree of certainty with which you speak of things not commonly known by those such as I, who does his best to keep himself informed, in-country and bound not a little by prevailing imperatives, such as a partial reliance on crappily biased local mainstream media. I’m sincere, not accusing, in my query and just wish to know more : ie, how do you know it’s 5 million baht a day protester-upkeep ? Who are the financial backers who ‘we’ (you) know ? I’m on your side James, really – I just want to know. BTW Your post #2 was excellent.
Arthurson, The attack itself was totally unacceptable and the “police informant” slur was completely out of order with no shred of evidence possible but does it really make sense for Nick to sue Clara Holzer, who may not be more of a real person than Constance Beasley, and BlueSkyChannelTV? He could get bogged down in costly suits and counter suits for years, and getting known as a litigious journalist might limit his access to sources and thereby damage his ability to report freely in Thailand far more than letter by an unknown crank in The Nation. At any rate financial damages could only be based on estimated lost earnings, which would be hard to quantify, and Thai courts don’t award actual costs to winners. I am not sure that your advice is either very realistic or helpful, even if it is well intentioned.
I was appalled at Thaksin’s Drug war, but was almost alone in that respect here in Thailand. Politicans and ordinary people of almost every stripe pretty much thought that was fine and dandy, and I don’t see it figuring very much in any of the anti-Taksin rhetoric.
As to your obsession with his ‘sentence’, a court hand-picked by coup leaders is hardly in a position to render any kind of justice. It is for that reason that every nation in the world pretty much laughed at appeals to prevent Taksin from entering their territory or arresting and extraditing him.
More horror at Ramkhamhaeng: “Ramkamhaeng University rector Wutthisak Larpcharoensab had claimed that there were snipers hiding in the university compound last night and shot the students.”
RAMKAMHAENG CLASHES
Rescue planned for hundreds of students in Ramkamhaeng U compound
December 1, 2013 1:51 pm
Security authorities are preparing evacuation plan for hundreds of people, most of them were Ramkamhaeng University students, who were still stranded in the university compound since last night following fatal crashes.
The rescue teams are working against time as they want to complete the work before dusk. Ramkamhaeng University rector Wutthisak Larpcharoensab had claimed that there were snipers hiding in the university compound last night and shot the students.
He said he had sought helps from police last night when he learnt that the students were trapped inside the compound and were targeted of the snipers. However no police provided the helps.
The teams expected to finish drafting the plan within an hour. The plan would include sending convoys of vehicles which would be escorted by army trucks into the compound to pick up the students. Soldiers accompanying the trucks will carry no arms.
The clashes between red shirt supporters and Ramkamhaeng students last night claimed at least two victims and injured many others.
…near Ramkhamhaeng University and gunshots were heard at about 2am.
Thanasit Viangkham, a 23-year-old soldier, was shot in the head and died instantly.
His girlfriend told investigators that Thanasit came to join the pro-government rally held at Rajamangala Stadium and that he was not a red-shirt security guard.
His body was taken to Phyathai Hospital 1.
According to investigators, the anti-government students were jeering at the red-shirts, including Thanasit, as they were walking outside the stadium at night. The red-shirts then picked up wooden sticks and threw glass bottles at the students, who fought back. One of the students then fired at the red-shirts. One of bullets hit and killed Thanasit, as the protesters quickly dispersed in different directions.
Bangkok Post: Breaking News
December 1, 2013 08:52 a.m.
Red-Shirt Supporter Shot Dead
A red-shirt supporter was found shot dead near Rajamangala Stadium early Sunday, police said. Police said a group of red-shirt supporters and anti-government students clashed near the red-shirt rally…
I just sincerely hope that there aren’t a few hotheads left behind and spoiling for a fight. The response to the protests by Yingluck, the government, the Red Shirts and the police has been almost Gandhian in its commitment to non-violence.
Vichai, until you have any real evidence – which you clearly don’t – this is just a silly, irresponsible and one-sided attempt to blow up a potentially lethal situation and claim it for your side of the argument. The other side of the story as reported in the Bangkok Post, no less, is that students first attacked red shirts in a bus, in a taxi and one on a scooter. The obvious inference is that those red shirts, being hardly in a position to attack anyone, were actually the objects of physical intimidation. If one tries to set the reported events inside the wider picture, it does seem – even, surely, to a neutral observer – that it is the anti-Thaksinite protesters who have everything to gain tactically by escalating the situation and even by resorting to violence. Any violence the red shirts initiate is only likely to assist the cause of their opponents. Having said that, there seems to be no limit to the ability of Thais of whatever colour or persuasion to act stupidly and against their best interests!
John G. the excutive director of the siam intelligence unit thinktank in Bangkok says that it is clear the people behind the reactionary movement are the same as those behind the 2006 coup and it is of course impossible that suthep is acting alone. They spend around Baht 5 million/Day — thus must have influential backers (we know who). Total tally 4 dead as at time of writing: aside from crass mob violence and stabbings against UNARMED red shirts (who have just left Rajamangala Satdium to return home)
The Nation: Breaking News
The Red Shirts on a violent rampage at Ramkhamhaeng University area.
Ramkhamhaeng students, residents of boarding houses behind campus stranded by red shirts
December 1, 2013 9:56 am
A lot of red-shirt guards were seen rampaging in front of and behind the Ramkhamhaeng University campus, trapping both students inside the campus and people living in boarding houses in the areas.
T News reported that about 30 red-shirt guards from Rajamangala Stadium went to road in front of the university at 6 am and clashed with the students. Explosion and gunfire were heard now and then.
A woman living in a boarding house behind the university said she could not go to work because there were a lot of red shirts on the road waiting to attack the students.
On Thai TV Channel 7 this morning. A van, clearly from the Red shirts camp, stopping at Rajamangala stadium right in front of where the Ramkhamheng University students were. The first man from the van threw a grenade at the direction of the students (explosion), then several clearly armed men followed from the same van, and started firing indiscriminately at the students.
The violent deadly black shirts of the red shirts camp are starting their bombing and killing rampage. On Thai TV Channel 7.
My wife took an elderly relative to get her hair done a couple of days ago. The building housed the hair dressers and an export/import business. The place was taken over by many people aiming, that day, to produce 50,000 meals for anti government demonstrators. Naturally also distributing anti government propaganda and collecting donations.
So donations, volunteer labour, and I presume the owner of the export/import business was coordinating/funding the process.
There has been violence and there have now been deaths. We have a billionaire businessman (who gets richer every year) representing the working class, and an upcountry ex-kamnan representing the Bangkok educated class. Oh the horror, the horror!
The best humour highlights our human frailties and, as in this Thaksin-superimposed-on-Hitler pastiche, allows us even to empathise with the butt of the joke. It is much more difficult to find anything humorous to say about either a prig or a hypocritical demagogue.
If the prince is smart he should has this move – summons Yingluck and Suthep for a televised royal audience like his father did 21 years ago, then he will gain a big benefit for his future, especially he will gain a lot of supports from the red shirts, Thaksin’s supporters (the group that supports Thaksin).
Hope things will not turn out to be another war – a war in the family one side is supported by yellow and the other is red.
For the sake of accuracy, I want to amend my earlier comment. With the latest news it is not at all clear who actually did the shooting, and the fatality was a Ramkhamhaeng student. Here is the account from The Nation (November 30, 11:42 p.m.):
Police and the Ramkhamhaeng Hospital confirmed that one Ramkhamhaeng University student was fatally shot in a clash between red-shirt people and Ramkhamhaeng students.
Police of Hua Mark police station identified the slain student as Thaweesak Phokaew, 21.
He was shot at the back and the bullet pierced through his lung. He died at the Ramkhamhaeng Hospital, the hospital confirmed.
Piya Uthayo, the spokesman of the Center for Administration of Peace and Order, confirmed that one person was fatally shot and died at Ramkhamhaeng Hospital.
You are a little behind on your news, because you can no longer apply the term UNARMED to your beloved street protestors. There has already been the first shooting death by the mob of redshirt supporters (or a bystander, it is not clear yet who died from among the five wounded) near Ramkhamhaeng University, when UDD supporters were attempting to get to Rajamangala Stadium early Saturday evening.
This is the inevitable result of the vicious indendiary rhetoric being spouted by Suthep Thaugsuban and others on the Blue Sky Channel News. His coming attempt to seize Government House today (Sunday, December 1) is madness and is guaranteed to result in more serious injuries if not deaths.
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What is to be done in Thailand?
Perhaps it’s the academe bias of this site, but for me it is difficult to understand the passionate support the Red Shirts elicit from some Westerners. Remembering a discussion I had in Bangkok in 2010 when my argumented (or not) defense of Abhisit actions almost got me kicked out of a closed-down bar during the curfew.
Who’s who in Thailand’s anti-government forces?
I’m very interested in what you’ve said in your posts here and am impressed by the degree of certainty with which you speak of things not commonly known by those such as I, who does his best to keep himself informed, in-country and bound not a little by prevailing imperatives, such as a partial reliance on crappily biased local mainstream media. I’m sincere, not accusing, in my query and just wish to know more : ie, how do you know it’s 5 million baht a day protester-upkeep ? Who are the financial backers who ‘we’ (you) know ? I’m on your side James, really – I just want to know. BTW Your post #2 was excellent.
Assault on Nick Nostitz
Arthurson, The attack itself was totally unacceptable and the “police informant” slur was completely out of order with no shred of evidence possible but does it really make sense for Nick to sue Clara Holzer, who may not be more of a real person than Constance Beasley, and BlueSkyChannelTV? He could get bogged down in costly suits and counter suits for years, and getting known as a litigious journalist might limit his access to sources and thereby damage his ability to report freely in Thailand far more than letter by an unknown crank in The Nation. At any rate financial damages could only be based on estimated lost earnings, which would be hard to quantify, and Thai courts don’t award actual costs to winners. I am not sure that your advice is either very realistic or helpful, even if it is well intentioned.
Uprooting the Thaksin regime
I was appalled at Thaksin’s Drug war, but was almost alone in that respect here in Thailand. Politicans and ordinary people of almost every stripe pretty much thought that was fine and dandy, and I don’t see it figuring very much in any of the anti-Taksin rhetoric.
As to your obsession with his ‘sentence’, a court hand-picked by coup leaders is hardly in a position to render any kind of justice. It is for that reason that every nation in the world pretty much laughed at appeals to prevent Taksin from entering their territory or arresting and extraditing him.
Who’s who in Thailand’s anti-government forces?
Vichai N, BBC has some videos of the “very peaceful and unarmed” protesters:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25168326
Uprooting the Thaksin regime
More horror at Ramkhamhaeng: “Ramkamhaeng University rector Wutthisak Larpcharoensab had claimed that there were snipers hiding in the university compound last night and shot the students.”
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Rescue-planned-for-hundreds-of-students-in-Ramkamh-30221053.html
RAMKAMHAENG CLASHES
Rescue planned for hundreds of students in Ramkamhaeng U compound
December 1, 2013 1:51 pm
Security authorities are preparing evacuation plan for hundreds of people, most of them were Ramkamhaeng University students, who were still stranded in the university compound since last night following fatal crashes.
The rescue teams are working against time as they want to complete the work before dusk. Ramkamhaeng University rector Wutthisak Larpcharoensab had claimed that there were snipers hiding in the university compound last night and shot the students.
He said he had sought helps from police last night when he learnt that the students were trapped inside the compound and were targeted of the snipers. However no police provided the helps.
The teams expected to finish drafting the plan within an hour. The plan would include sending convoys of vehicles which would be escorted by army trucks into the compound to pick up the students. Soldiers accompanying the trucks will carry no arms.
The clashes between red shirt supporters and Ramkamhaeng students last night claimed at least two victims and injured many others.
Uprooting the Thaksin regime
…near Ramkhamhaeng University and gunshots were heard at about 2am.
Thanasit Viangkham, a 23-year-old soldier, was shot in the head and died instantly.
His girlfriend told investigators that Thanasit came to join the pro-government rally held at Rajamangala Stadium and that he was not a red-shirt security guard.
His body was taken to Phyathai Hospital 1.
According to investigators, the anti-government students were jeering at the red-shirts, including Thanasit, as they were walking outside the stadium at night. The red-shirts then picked up wooden sticks and threw glass bottles at the students, who fought back. One of the students then fired at the red-shirts. One of bullets hit and killed Thanasit, as the protesters quickly dispersed in different directions.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/382510/red-shirt-supporter-shot-dead-near-rally-site
Uprooting the Thaksin regime
Bangkok Post: Breaking News
December 1, 2013 08:52 a.m.
Red-Shirt Supporter Shot Dead
A red-shirt supporter was found shot dead near Rajamangala Stadium early Sunday, police said. Police said a group of red-shirt supporters and anti-government students clashed near the red-shirt rally…
Please credit and share this article with others using this link: http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/382510/red-shirt-supporter-shot-dead-near-rally-site
Uprooting the Thaksin regime
This says more than anything about the different motives of the two sides:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/382541/rajamangala-stadium-emptied
I just sincerely hope that there aren’t a few hotheads left behind and spoiling for a fight. The response to the protests by Yingluck, the government, the Red Shirts and the police has been almost Gandhian in its commitment to non-violence.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/382541/rajamangala-stadium-emptied
Uprooting the Thaksin regime
Vichai, until you have any real evidence – which you clearly don’t – this is just a silly, irresponsible and one-sided attempt to blow up a potentially lethal situation and claim it for your side of the argument. The other side of the story as reported in the Bangkok Post, no less, is that students first attacked red shirts in a bus, in a taxi and one on a scooter. The obvious inference is that those red shirts, being hardly in a position to attack anyone, were actually the objects of physical intimidation. If one tries to set the reported events inside the wider picture, it does seem – even, surely, to a neutral observer – that it is the anti-Thaksinite protesters who have everything to gain tactically by escalating the situation and even by resorting to violence. Any violence the red shirts initiate is only likely to assist the cause of their opponents. Having said that, there seems to be no limit to the ability of Thais of whatever colour or persuasion to act stupidly and against their best interests!
Who’s who in Thailand’s anti-government forces?
John G. the excutive director of the siam intelligence unit thinktank in Bangkok says that it is clear the people behind the reactionary movement are the same as those behind the 2006 coup and it is of course impossible that suthep is acting alone. They spend around Baht 5 million/Day — thus must have influential backers (we know who). Total tally 4 dead as at time of writing: aside from crass mob violence and stabbings against UNARMED red shirts (who have just left Rajamangala Satdium to return home)
Uprooting the Thaksin regime
The Nation: Breaking News
The Red Shirts on a violent rampage at Ramkhamhaeng University area.
Ramkhamhaeng students, residents of boarding houses behind campus stranded by red shirts
December 1, 2013 9:56 am
A lot of red-shirt guards were seen rampaging in front of and behind the Ramkhamhaeng University campus, trapping both students inside the campus and people living in boarding houses in the areas.
T News reported that about 30 red-shirt guards from Rajamangala Stadium went to road in front of the university at 6 am and clashed with the students. Explosion and gunfire were heard now and then.
A woman living in a boarding house behind the university said she could not go to work because there were a lot of red shirts on the road waiting to attack the students.
The Nation
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Ramkhamhaeng-students-residents-of-boarding-houses-30221017.html
Uprooting the Thaksin regime
On Thai TV Channel 7 this morning. A van, clearly from the Red shirts camp, stopping at Rajamangala stadium right in front of where the Ramkhamheng University students were. The first man from the van threw a grenade at the direction of the students (explosion), then several clearly armed men followed from the same van, and started firing indiscriminately at the students.
The violent deadly black shirts of the red shirts camp are starting their bombing and killing rampage. On Thai TV Channel 7.
Who’s who in Thailand’s anti-government forces?
My wife took an elderly relative to get her hair done a couple of days ago. The building housed the hair dressers and an export/import business. The place was taken over by many people aiming, that day, to produce 50,000 meals for anti government demonstrators. Naturally also distributing anti government propaganda and collecting donations.
So donations, volunteer labour, and I presume the owner of the export/import business was coordinating/funding the process.
What is to be done in Thailand?
There has been violence and there have now been deaths. We have a billionaire businessman (who gets richer every year) representing the working class, and an upcountry ex-kamnan representing the Bangkok educated class. Oh the horror, the horror!
Uprooting the Thaksin regime
The best humour highlights our human frailties and, as in this Thaksin-superimposed-on-Hitler pastiche, allows us even to empathise with the butt of the joke. It is much more difficult to find anything humorous to say about either a prig or a hypocritical demagogue.
A royal intervention?
If the prince is smart he should has this move – summons Yingluck and Suthep for a televised royal audience like his father did 21 years ago, then he will gain a big benefit for his future, especially he will gain a lot of supports from the red shirts, Thaksin’s supporters (the group that supports Thaksin).
Hope things will not turn out to be another war – a war in the family one side is supported by yellow and the other is red.
Who’s who in Thailand’s anti-government forces?
For the sake of accuracy, I want to amend my earlier comment. With the latest news it is not at all clear who actually did the shooting, and the fatality was a Ramkhamhaeng student. Here is the account from The Nation (November 30, 11:42 p.m.):
Police and the Ramkhamhaeng Hospital confirmed that one Ramkhamhaeng University student was fatally shot in a clash between red-shirt people and Ramkhamhaeng students.
Police of Hua Mark police station identified the slain student as Thaweesak Phokaew, 21.
He was shot at the back and the bullet pierced through his lung. He died at the Ramkhamhaeng Hospital, the hospital confirmed.
Piya Uthayo, the spokesman of the Center for Administration of Peace and Order, confirmed that one person was fatally shot and died at Ramkhamhaeng Hospital.
Who’s who in Thailand’s anti-government forces?
You are a little behind on your news, because you can no longer apply the term UNARMED to your beloved street protestors. There has already been the first shooting death by the mob of redshirt supporters (or a bystander, it is not clear yet who died from among the five wounded) near Ramkhamhaeng University, when UDD supporters were attempting to get to Rajamangala Stadium early Saturday evening.
This is the inevitable result of the vicious indendiary rhetoric being spouted by Suthep Thaugsuban and others on the Blue Sky Channel News. His coming attempt to seize Government House today (Sunday, December 1) is madness and is guaranteed to result in more serious injuries if not deaths.
Who’s who in Thailand’s anti-government forces?
it is time that they will be put in prison