Comments

  1. R. N. England says:

    I prefer the geographical/anthropological to the theological, but they are probably in rough agreement here.
    It should be no surprise that a religion that arose amongst brigands and pirates should be giving more trouble in the world than those religions that arose amongst agriculturalists. Desert oases, small islands and isolated coasts are difficult to defend against brigands and pirates, and it is easy to see why pre-existing populations would succumb to the religion of highly mobile predators with horses, camels, and ships.
    English-speaking culture, which originated amongst the pirates of the North Sea, is still causing more than its fair share of trouble, despite the pacifying effect of Christianity and the Enlightenment.

  2. Farouq Omaro says:

    I agree with Charis Quay, in Malaysia I believe the actual percentage of Muslims is lower. There are many people who are either wronly registered as Muslims, no longer practise Islam but cannot record their change of faith, and in the case of Sabah, people who were asked to record their religion as Muslims in order to acquire citizenship cards. And let us not forget those Muslims who no longer practise any religion. If there ever was a referendum to turn Malaysia into an Islamic State with fully applied Sharia laws, the majority would not vote in favour. That is why there are clowns within UMNO who are not ashamed to to lean towards extremist views, as they know no matter what Malaysia will not be Talibanised.

  3. Charis Quay says:

    A minor correction to: ‘In 2010 Malaysia had 28.3 million citizens of which 61.3% identified themselves as Muslim.’ It would be more accurate to say ‘61.3% are officially classified as Muslim’.

    In Malaysia, often one does not ‘identify as’; one’s official ‘race’ is attributed at birth (on one’s birth certificate) and one’s official ‘religion’ by the time one goes to school ; at the age of 12 or so both are inscribed on one’s national identity card. For Malaysians classified as ‘Muslim’, it has become administratively impossible to change this classification. Some who try are sent for re-education. This needs to be taken into account in statistical analyses. In addition, pollsters need to be careful when asking for the religion of respondents to ascertain whether people are responding with their ‘official’ or ‘actual’ religion.

  4. Gregore Lopez says:

    Haris Ibrahim comments on his visa denial:

    “Last Thursday, 19th September, I received the notice of refusal in relation to my application for a visa, from the Australian authorities, and the reasons wherefor.

    “I return home this week and am hoping to get the opportunity to meet the relevant officer(s) at the Australian High Commission with a view to allaying some misapprehensions they appear to have about my intended visit to their country, and, if possible, a re-consideration of their earlier decision on my application,” he wrote in the posting.

    “For that reason, I will not say anymore on this matter,” the Anything But Umno (ABU) founder added.

    – See more at: http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/haris-ibrahim-confirms-aussie-visa-rejected#sthash.cvv8O661.dpuf

  5. plan B says:

    Roy Anderson

    Illustrating the myopic, selective, albeit laudable good intended spirit to the future of Myanmar us always a challenge.

    Saw Yan Naing as apolitical is akin to denying the pope as being catholic.

    Not recognizing the true etiology of a problem make subsequent prescriptions merely bandages.

    The present ongoing Muslim vs Buddhist quagmire as an example:

    Has it root firmly planted with the British surprised invasion of Myanmar (First Anglo Burman War) after repeated cross border clashes of then Bandoolah, in pursue of rebels raids against the YAkhine, then a Burmese Domain.

    Subsequent to the ‘invasion’ (war was never declared), there were unmitigated migration of E Indians allowed by the Colonist, overall to exploit cheap labor as well as to exclude the Burmese participation in all levels of responsibilities, until 1947. Thus Setting up this present quagmire.

    As late as last year declaring still, Rohingyas as an ethnic group , that have become a factor to spark this ongoing tragedy is never taken into account.

    Closer to home: The textile sanction imposed by the West:

    Everyone agree that this hurt the citizenry more. Comparatively, the resulting prostitution and unspeakable human tragedy, bragged, here @ New Mandala by then visiting Westerners.
    Yet almost all West toasted continually on this very sanction as helping Myanmar.

    Theses are just 2 ongoing associated with purely the legacy of West useless careless policy affecting present citizenry lives in real term.

    From the wiki leak CIA is well aware of the true conditions within Myanmar during the dictatorial rule of SLOR and SPDC. Despite its embassy/on the ground communique the West approach to Myanmar has been towards the like of DPRK, Cuba etc.

    ALL that subsequently transpired including Kow Towing to presence China dominance, Myitsoe dam being the quintessential example is in response to the West useless careless policies.

    Japan as the quintessential example of accounting for all responsibility has more influence since WWII then any western countries including Australia.

    Until all these purely Westerners iniquities, individually in the example of Charles F. here as well as larger groups are well accounted for highlighting the unjustifiable atrocities of present government will serve nothing useful but rather trying to restart a the cycle of useless careless policy.

  6. Gregore Lopez says:

    Any views on the thrust of the author’s arguments, R.N. England?

  7. Gregore Lopez says:

    We have not cancelled it Sir, and await Haris Ibrahim’s appeal.

    We are of the view that common sense will prevail and Haris Ibrahim should be able to visit Australia.

    Also, yes — we will publicise events much more widely, and will also appreciate your help to disseminate information from New Mandala.

  8. Kaen Phet says:

    ‘Geng mag’ – a rather clumsy romanisation for ‘very clever’ I presume (‘mark’ might be an improvement, otherwise we may think of you as a ‘mag wheel’ or perhaps the common colloquial term for ‘magazine’). You write that Gorakan is ‘sort of politely telling you all to crawl back into your hole and stay there’. It might be a wise idea to consult your dictionary and see what the word ‘politely’ actually means.

    On a slightly more substantive note. You have appropriated what I think is a version of an expression (lipstick on a pig) popularised by that total ninny Sarah Palin during the 2008 presidental campaign in the US, and use it to refer to the work of Chris Baker. You also claim to find his work interesting ‘personally’. Are you really that familiar with his work? To suggest CB has spent much of his life ‘trying to apply lipstick to a pig’ seems rather arse-backwards in my view. I think it’s a little bit more like trying to examine the pig wearing the lipstick not the other way around. Palin’s sound-bite friendly expression is what the Tourism Authorithy of Thailand, the National Identity Board and various other Thai government instrumentalities do ad nauseam. Generally speaking scholars are not involved with promoting this sort of low grade, two dimensional propaganda.

    Having said all this I tend to agree with most of the other comments in your post. Yet to state ‘1 (sic) day here is often enough to figure out …..blah, etc.’ is, I would, suggest, something of an exaggeration (you mean someone who has spent but a single day in Thailand, or what? It’s not clear). Certainly ‘significant’ actors in Thailand generally have little interest in the views and observations of ‘lesser’ figures. If, however, you happened to be someone truly substantial (POTUS for example) – in terms of real money or power at your disposal you could well get some sort of hearing. After all Thai society, as I’m sure you’re aware, has a rather hierachial nature. Many people have very thin skins, and advice, analysis or thoughts offered in good faith are all too often taken as an affront or criticism – insufferable to the precious, delicate ego. Or, if not, too much trouble or effort to deal with. Have you ever met a Thai person who is is not afraid of ‘done (‘done’ as in methadone) dar’ -being scolded – even for some minor misdemeanour/faux pas or another? The conditioning all begins in early childhood.

  9. Roy Anderson says:

    Plan B.
    I did not blame the West for the problems in Burma as it is NOT only the west that is to blame. The continueing military dictatorship and China make the problems of Burma worse. China weilds more power over the generals than any other country. The last time I looked at a map China was in the East. Pure greed for money under the capitalist system is the main cause of tensions around the world.

  10. R. N. England says:

    Joshua Woo must have been looking out of the window during his school maths lesson on significant figures. If he had said, “somewhat less than a million” instead of 867,395, sensible people would have been less likely to give up reading his article right there.

  11. plan B says:

    Charles F

    Obviously, your vast knowledge of Buddhism allow you to approve Ko Win Kyu decision to hold his daughter spirit as hostage, for the advancement of so called DEmocracy. A catch all word by the West that have little meaning in Myanmar.

    Hmm

    You might realize then that you just lost some more of your Karma that you might surely need.

    Roy Anderson

    Your criticisms might have been justifiable if you should also include the West contributions to present ongoing quagmire mentioned ever so obviously in #2.

    The moral principles in any religion have been associated with politics and are the bases of any constitution since the dawn of government, especially to inspire masses.

    Don’t you think selective approval of holding a daughter spirit hostage to continue condemn a government is silly at best at the worst make Islamic ‘none believers as infidels’ justifiable as well ?

    Myanmar is more the all the sums of the like of Ko Win Kyu’s unjustifiable loss.

    Capitalizing on these tragedies will only justify the West another round of potential punitive acts against a country where 50 millions suffer more.

    “One can never punish a government without hurting the citizenry more”. It is indeed easy to throw away the key until one realize one are in the same jail, albeit unwittingly.

    Will you like me to recount similar tragedies as a direct results of the West policies?

  12. Second Class Malaysian says:

    Is this event confirmed?

    I have heard that Haris was refused a visa – Abbot is concerned that Haris might “overstay” to escape his sedition charge – which is widely known to be trumped up in the first place.

    I guess somebody from the Malaysian Embassy has been whispering in Abbot’s ear.

    Little does the Australian Government know that they are being played for fools by UMNO/BN.

    BTW, I hope that future events like these will be more widely publicised as it was purely by chance that I found out thru Malaysia Chronicle.

    Not everybody has a Facebook account 🙂

  13. Roy Anderson says:

    Plan B
    Mixing Politics with religious belief? A practice since man first dreampt up gods for their own power base.
    The internal politics of all countries is mixed with religion, bigotry, nationalism and ignorance. Burma is no different in this respect. The powerful multi national companies control all nations on this planet. They are the ones rubbing their blood stailed hands in glee at the prospects on making megga bucks, destroying the environment and stealing the wealth from the people in the land called Burma.
    I actually read Saw Yan Naing’s post as purely an article of one family’s grief. Nothing more and nothing less.

  14. Gregore Lopez says:

    This reply is from Professor James Chin to “Historian”

    I do not reply to anonymous comments- if you are unwilling to speak/identify themselves openly this means you do not have the confidence to debate the issue. The comments above were obviously designed to damage my reputation by half-truths and using pseudo-academic writings (mostly from internet sources). For serious scholars who would like to know more (and I am more than happy to engage them) about the Sarawak Malay community and its origins, the starting point is Tom Harrison’s Malays of South-west Sarawak Before Malaysia (Macmillan; 1970) and more recent studies from scholars like Reece. They showed that the Malays from Sarawak originated from Kalimantan. This is of course disputed by certain historians who are keen to show that the Sarawak Malays are from Riau or Brunei. Even today, the “Sarawak Malay” spoken in the bazaar of Kuching and Satok are not easily understood by a West Malaysian Malay.

    The comment above actually shows a deeper problem with academic debates in Malaysia. It is no longer possible to hold a sensible debate in Malaysia on anything to do with ‘sensitive’ topics. Scholars must take a ‘political’ stand and are deemed ‘pro’ or ‘anti-Malay/Islam’. The worst aspect of this approach is that the ethnicity of the scholar concerned is more important than the substance of the debate. I detected this trend about a decade ago and it has gotton worse, much worse.

  15. Charles F. says:

    I knew that plan B wouldn’t let this tragic story pass without a snarky comment against the West.
    I think he must have read up on Saul Alinsky.

  16. Historian says:

    “In terms of history, culture and demography, there was nothing in common between the peoples of the peninsula and Borneo”

    Thank God for the internet so that we may exposed the Chinese liars like Prof James UH Chin.

    Here is a sample search result:-

    “MALAYS (Orang Mal├бyu, “Malay Men”), the domin-ant people in Malacca and the Eastern Archipelago (hence often called Malaysia), where they are diversely intermingled with other races, and where they have represented the local cultured element for over two thousand years. The Malays proper, that is, those who call themselves by this name, [323-6] who speak the standard Malay language, and who possess a common sentiment of racial unity, are found in compact masses chiefly in the Malay peninsula as far north as 8┬║ or 9┬║ N. lat., in the adjacent islands of Penang, Bintang, Lingen, &c., and in Sumatra, of which they occupy fully one half, mainly in the south, along the east coast, and on parts of the west coast. In these lands alone they are really indigenous, and regard themselves as the aboriginal population. Elsewhere they are met in scattered communities chiefly round the coast of Borneo, in the Sulu Archipelago, in Tidor, Ternate, and some other members of the Molucca group”

    Muahaha… they share the same malay language and songs.

    “The tragedy is that the good ethnic relations experienced in East Malaysia for the past fifty years will be nothing more than a distant dream.”

    But weren’t the past 50 years of good ethnic relations experienced were under the Malay leadership from peninsula?

    Prof James UH Chin, you sure like to confuse your readers on purpose I guess.

    “Today, there is intense political competition and constant tensions between the Muslim and non-Muslim population in both states, and racial tensions so prevalent in Malaya is starting to manifest in East Malaysia. The younger Muslims from East Malaysia are starting to distance themselves from their non-Muslim neighbours and becoming super sensitive to all issues pertaining to Islam, mirroring the breakdown of racial relations in the peninsula”

    Religious tensions happens everywhere even in all Christian Ireland. Is that the fault of the Malays from peninsula too?

    “This means they were not equal to the states in Malaya, and this was acknowledged in the original first article of the federal constitution that was promulgated on 16th September 1963. Later amendments were made which lump Sabah and Sarawak as the same category as other states”

    Sabah and Sarawak were still British colonies. How could they be equal to independent Malaya? And why would Malay states be less than the very small population of Sabah and Sarawak?

    So many other bias and closeted thinking that I am afraid space do not allow to debunk this piece as a scholarly endeavor.

  17. Any Lee says:

    More and more girls from Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar or even China tends to share a bigger part of these business. So the human trafficking is still one of the major problems we can’t afford to ignore. And don’t forget the boys who also enter the same business.

  18. Geng: Well put!
    So many parallels to Animal Farm here.

  19. plan B says:

    In the tradition of K I S S (Keep It Simple Sir)

    Myanmar history need to be viewed,for those who truly interested as followed:

    1) PRECOLONIAL
    2) COLONIAL
    3) PRESENT

    Precolonial: Various dynastic rule

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Burma

    The most significant info is PAGAN dynasty when the Burmese become dominant group and Buddhism the unifying religion.

    As prelude to the next part one must be acquainted with the cause of eventual inevitable cause of 1st Anglo Burman war. The same related problem up to this day.

    Colonial: Wilful and Purposeful exclusion of the dominant group by the Colonist. Yangon becoming the capital where the lingua franca was HINDUSTANI!

    Present: Read and follow all articles @ New Mandala.

  20. plan B says:

    Associating Democracy with bestowing merits on one’s loved one soul.

    The time it take to read this article, there are similar loved ones,from the most vulnerable newly born to the near invincible toiling in the fields, all across the villages of Myanmar, that were striken down, due to deprivation alone.

    These souls were similarly mourn by their loved ones and those who care for them.

    Ko Win kyu lost is unfathomable. Yet move on we must.

    One thing this protagonist believe is article like this mixing politics with religious belief, at the same time sprinkled with unrestrained grief will not only allow the West to not only get away with with its responsible potion of present Myanmar’s quagmire but encourage Quintana and the like of HRW to condemn a country that none of then have any adequate idea about.

    The result of which that are still ongoing in the remote parts of Myanmar.