[…] the last week there have been additional comments at New Mandala by Andrew Walker, arguing about foreign commentators, political tactics and research practicalities, with the latter […]
Kevin Hewson, given that I want to be influenced by your dispositions towards nobility and the truth, I see no reason then why I, as a young pot stirrer, shouldn’t write an article on Lese Majeste for a journal.
Why hasn’t it been done? Perhaps no-one has been noble enough… yet. Oh, perhaps also, a journal wouldn’t publish it because their editorial team likes to holiday in Thailand. Or the fact that, if it were published in some obscure unranked newsletter, it would get lots of undergraduate essay citations, but not be referred to in any other journal for decades because no other young academic is willing to express their opinion and sacrifice everything else they do on Thailand. Speaking of nobility when your career doesn’t depend on it reflects a great luxury. The high ground wasn’t always quite such an easy route to take, surely? Experience suggests Andrew’s not really saying how it should be, but how it is. I advise you start promoting to your younger academics that they need to be writing journal articles, or even expose articles like Andrew Marshall on Lese Majeste with their real names. I look forward to seeing how successful a pitch it is.
Accept that large and endemic commercial sex as well as illegal drug industries are deeply and permanently embedded in the structure of their societies and that these socially corrosive industries often operate with the complicity and are sometimes even under the control of state authorities as well as the various Big Men.
Query: Just what is inherently “socially corrosive” in two or more consenting adults engaging in a commercial transaction?
Indeed, I find the state-led, state-originated prohibition of such acts, which force such transactions into the shadow economy that relies on incentivizing state-actors to engage in corruption, to be more socially corrosive by cosmological magnitudes.
Without complete freedom of the press and the people of Thailand, every govt would continue to cover up rapes and tourist deaths in hotels. Why? is this a national security issue? Thailand will continue to get foreign investment until the next military coup. Foreign investment really only affects the rich who would get richer through corruption. If Thailand really wants to be a progressive country then they would scrap all LM laws, seriously tackle corruption and the military immunities they grant themselves after having coups. Instead, the powerful always get a free pass. The term “National Security” really means security for the corrupt and elite in Thailand and has got nothing to do with actual national security. The king and others covered by the LM laws are of course not involved in politics or other bad practices that the elite love to play around with.Perhaps I should wear a T shirt with “progressive thailand against 112” written on it.
If foreign academics and journalists stopped their reporting for a while, they would be surprised to find, after a while, that life still went on without them in Thailand (despite all their “concern”). So, lets be realistic and focus our attention on what is really important for Thailand: direct foreign investment, the importation of consumer goods, and tourism. This way, Thailand would be at the forefront of all those progressive countries that are adopting the “Chinese model.” Ha!
Safe to say from afar, and for academics with jobs at foreign universities, but a lot more difficult for foreign academics who have been living in Thailand for decades.
What might once have been a choice (and a much less rational one than suggested in the comment) has long turned into a constraint.
The comment actually is similar to what conservative Thais like to say to foreign academics: If you don’t like it here, just leave (note that Immigration procedures assume that you have just arrived in Thailand, though one internal form states how many times an applicant has renewed his/her one-year visa).
Your responses are threats to national security. Please desist.
As for Mr Marshall, when he is under the spotlight, the good cop will ask about his alienation and the bad cop will ask about whether or not he respects the monarchy. When Mr Marshall replies “huh?” they will throw away the key so he is forever lost in his polemics.
Why not stop reporting on Thai politics and economy for a while, if it is anyway difficult or impossible to report the “truth”. Leave Thailand to the colorful boulevard press for a while. Thailand is strongly integrated and exposed internationally. The worst that can happen under such circumstances is that it is not mentioned anymore. In fact, I doubt that much would be lost anyway. Those who are interested get the information anyway (most of the journalists base their reports on blggs as well).
For academics, a similar case might be simply not to participate in official conferences in Thailand, as it becomes risky to engage in open discourse.
Most of all, however, we have to understand that th whole 112 issue has nothing much to do with the monarchy and HMS the reigtning king of Thailand.
“The careers of journalists and academics who work on Thailand are dependent on ongoing access to it. The idea that they should give up that access in order to speak truth to power is noble, but it is unrealistic.”
Even though I agree with many of your points I’d disagree with this particular argument. Foreign academics who choose to study Thailand usually do so voluntarily. They are not forced into specialising on it and therefore nobody’s career depends on access to Thailand.
But if someone does decide to focus on Thailand – usually fully aware of the anti-democratic role the Thai monarchy is playing as an ideology and as an institution – there is no excuse for remaining silent on issues related to the royal institution. I think you have every right to expect other colleagues to say or write “things about the monarchy”, whether these colleagues are junior or senior scholars.
When I said I agreed with ‘Andrew’, I meant to say Mr Walker. Too many Andrews lol . . .
It’s not a question of what ‘role’ a journalist should play, but how to deal with the issue of self-censorship. I’ve thought about solutions for awhile but have no silver bullet.
The ‘best’ idea I had, which some of you above have mentioned, was that journalists would all post a disclaimer saying something like “Censored by 112” or “this article was self-censored as to not violate Article 112”. And this would either be highlighted in a big image on each article written, or within the text, or something. The reader will then have to figure out what that means on his own.
That said, there are issues with this. The act of saying you self-censored is itself probably illegal (given a recent 112 case). Certain “bad” individuals (and officials) may target reporters that publicly claim self-censorship, either by blocking the url, refusing to be interviewed by you, or other much worse things. It would be assumed you are anti-112, and therefore paid by Thaksin and conspiring to overthrow a certain somebody.
You could also write under another pen name, but it would be hard to build a new trustworthy reputation without years of work. This is the option I chose, but still need to self-censor so my posts aren’t deleted and my sites aren’t blocked. That would be counter productive.
As I said, I have no real solutions.
But, I remember just three years ago when 112 was mostly unknown and entirely under the public radar. Now most people in Thailand are familiar with it, and some are starting to have negative feelings towards it. So I’m optimistic things are going in the right direction, albeit slowly.
Perhaps a better question would be: Should a monarchy that still allows people to be locked up for decades in its name be respected?
(and if they truly cannot do anything about it, why don’t they at least speak up about it at every opportunity?)
The role of all journalists should not involve cleaving open a situation for expose and glorification, but reporting on the situation itself for others. You yourself are becoming the story! That’s not journalism, it’s tabloid cheese. Journalists in Thailand often don’t know what the hell is going on with a 112 case, beyond “so-and-so has been arrested for this and that. That makes X number this year”. You could fill the first five pages of the Bangkok Post with 112 speculation (not fact), but would that be reporting? It’s a prickly pear.
You can’t make news out of history. If you wrote a story that was about a current event, and then included all the contextual pieces that you’ve gathered — that would be wonderful journalism. It would be better if you chronicled your exposes in a gonzo manner! You versus the Thai establishment, but you’re quick to deny that’s the case.
Mr Marshall, do you ever wonder that you might be the one being a wally, and that the other journalists remaining in Thailand, might not all be callous hacks living the easy life? Mr Marshall, do you have respect for the Thai monarchy?
Typical Thai-mindset, there’s no pluralistic culture, identity, ideology but Thainess(which still under vigorous debate as whether there actually is one). This kind of mindset posts a big threat not only to the Moken, but also other ethnics minorities especially those in the deep south. A big obstacle on the road to a genuine democratic society too, I suppose. Just wonder whether there is a cure available?
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
Western campaigners and lèse-majesté
[…] the last week there have been additional comments at New Mandala by Andrew Walker, arguing about foreign commentators, political tactics and research practicalities, with the latter […]
Rising Anti-China resentment in Singapore
China culture and her civility have been in a long term decline ever since the Mongolian and Manchurian rule .
The newly found rich could not erase the nomadic trait DNA inherited since the 12 th century…
Campaigning on lèse-majesté
Kevin Hewson, given that I want to be influenced by your dispositions towards nobility and the truth, I see no reason then why I, as a young pot stirrer, shouldn’t write an article on Lese Majeste for a journal.
Why hasn’t it been done? Perhaps no-one has been noble enough… yet. Oh, perhaps also, a journal wouldn’t publish it because their editorial team likes to holiday in Thailand. Or the fact that, if it were published in some obscure unranked newsletter, it would get lots of undergraduate essay citations, but not be referred to in any other journal for decades because no other young academic is willing to express their opinion and sacrifice everything else they do on Thailand. Speaking of nobility when your career doesn’t depend on it reflects a great luxury. The high ground wasn’t always quite such an easy route to take, surely? Experience suggests Andrew’s not really saying how it should be, but how it is. I advise you start promoting to your younger academics that they need to be writing journal articles, or even expose articles like Andrew Marshall on Lese Majeste with their real names. I look forward to seeing how successful a pitch it is.
Southeast Asia noir
Query: Just what is inherently “socially corrosive” in two or more consenting adults engaging in a commercial transaction?
Indeed, I find the state-led, state-originated prohibition of such acts, which force such transactions into the shadow economy that relies on incentivizing state-actors to engage in corruption, to be more socially corrosive by cosmological magnitudes.
Western campaigners and lèse-majesté
Without complete freedom of the press and the people of Thailand, every govt would continue to cover up rapes and tourist deaths in hotels. Why? is this a national security issue? Thailand will continue to get foreign investment until the next military coup. Foreign investment really only affects the rich who would get richer through corruption. If Thailand really wants to be a progressive country then they would scrap all LM laws, seriously tackle corruption and the military immunities they grant themselves after having coups. Instead, the powerful always get a free pass. The term “National Security” really means security for the corrupt and elite in Thailand and has got nothing to do with actual national security. The king and others covered by the LM laws are of course not involved in politics or other bad practices that the elite love to play around with.Perhaps I should wear a T shirt with “progressive thailand against 112” written on it.
Western campaigners and lèse-majesté
“Your responses are threats to national security”
Which part, and why/how?
Western campaigners and lèse-majesté
HRK:
If foreign academics and journalists stopped their reporting for a while, they would be surprised to find, after a while, that life still went on without them in Thailand (despite all their “concern”). So, lets be realistic and focus our attention on what is really important for Thailand: direct foreign investment, the importation of consumer goods, and tourism. This way, Thailand would be at the forefront of all those progressive countries that are adopting the “Chinese model.” Ha!
Western campaigners and lèse-majesté
Safe to say from afar, and for academics with jobs at foreign universities, but a lot more difficult for foreign academics who have been living in Thailand for decades.
What might once have been a choice (and a much less rational one than suggested in the comment) has long turned into a constraint.
The comment actually is similar to what conservative Thais like to say to foreign academics: If you don’t like it here, just leave (note that Immigration procedures assume that you have just arrived in Thailand, though one internal form states how many times an applicant has renewed his/her one-year visa).
Western campaigners and lèse-majesté
Nganadeeleg and Srithanonchai
Your responses are threats to national security. Please desist.
As for Mr Marshall, when he is under the spotlight, the good cop will ask about his alienation and the bad cop will ask about whether or not he respects the monarchy. When Mr Marshall replies “huh?” they will throw away the key so he is forever lost in his polemics.
The Kachin and war
3) An econmy not stifffled by the West
A quintessential qualification to be a Man Friday or westerners apologist indeed.
Western campaigners and lèse-majesté
Why not stop reporting on Thai politics and economy for a while, if it is anyway difficult or impossible to report the “truth”. Leave Thailand to the colorful boulevard press for a while. Thailand is strongly integrated and exposed internationally. The worst that can happen under such circumstances is that it is not mentioned anymore. In fact, I doubt that much would be lost anyway. Those who are interested get the information anyway (most of the journalists base their reports on blggs as well).
For academics, a similar case might be simply not to participate in official conferences in Thailand, as it becomes risky to engage in open discourse.
Most of all, however, we have to understand that th whole 112 issue has nothing much to do with the monarchy and HMS the reigtning king of Thailand.
Western campaigners and lèse-majesté
“The careers of journalists and academics who work on Thailand are dependent on ongoing access to it. The idea that they should give up that access in order to speak truth to power is noble, but it is unrealistic.”
Even though I agree with many of your points I’d disagree with this particular argument. Foreign academics who choose to study Thailand usually do so voluntarily. They are not forced into specialising on it and therefore nobody’s career depends on access to Thailand.
But if someone does decide to focus on Thailand – usually fully aware of the anti-democratic role the Thai monarchy is playing as an ideology and as an institution – there is no excuse for remaining silent on issues related to the royal institution. I think you have every right to expect other colleagues to say or write “things about the monarchy”, whether these colleagues are junior or senior scholars.
The Three Thousand Year Old Wave
[…] my latest article for New Mandala: The Three Thousand Year Old Wave asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/201… […]
The Three Thousand Year Old Wave
[…] The Three Thousand Year Old Wave. […]
Western campaigners and lèse-majesté
I am still confused why anybody should be asked to “respect” a (any) monarchy, or any other political structure.
Western campaigners and lèse-majesté
When I said I agreed with ‘Andrew’, I meant to say Mr Walker. Too many Andrews lol . . .
It’s not a question of what ‘role’ a journalist should play, but how to deal with the issue of self-censorship. I’ve thought about solutions for awhile but have no silver bullet.
The ‘best’ idea I had, which some of you above have mentioned, was that journalists would all post a disclaimer saying something like “Censored by 112” or “this article was self-censored as to not violate Article 112”. And this would either be highlighted in a big image on each article written, or within the text, or something. The reader will then have to figure out what that means on his own.
That said, there are issues with this. The act of saying you self-censored is itself probably illegal (given a recent 112 case). Certain “bad” individuals (and officials) may target reporters that publicly claim self-censorship, either by blocking the url, refusing to be interviewed by you, or other much worse things. It would be assumed you are anti-112, and therefore paid by Thaksin and conspiring to overthrow a certain somebody.
You could also write under another pen name, but it would be hard to build a new trustworthy reputation without years of work. This is the option I chose, but still need to self-censor so my posts aren’t deleted and my sites aren’t blocked. That would be counter productive.
As I said, I have no real solutions.
But, I remember just three years ago when 112 was mostly unknown and entirely under the public radar. Now most people in Thailand are familiar with it, and some are starting to have negative feelings towards it. So I’m optimistic things are going in the right direction, albeit slowly.
Western campaigners and lèse-majesté
“do you have respect for the Thai monarchy?”
Perhaps a better question would be: Should a monarchy that still allows people to be locked up for decades in its name be respected?
(and if they truly cannot do anything about it, why don’t they at least speak up about it at every opportunity?)
Note: This weekend is the anniversary of the execution of Chaleo, But and Chit – did a failure to speak up contribute to their fate? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ananda_Mahidol#Aftermath
Western campaigners and lèse-majesté
Huh?
Western campaigners and lèse-majesté
The role of all journalists should not involve cleaving open a situation for expose and glorification, but reporting on the situation itself for others. You yourself are becoming the story! That’s not journalism, it’s tabloid cheese. Journalists in Thailand often don’t know what the hell is going on with a 112 case, beyond “so-and-so has been arrested for this and that. That makes X number this year”. You could fill the first five pages of the Bangkok Post with 112 speculation (not fact), but would that be reporting? It’s a prickly pear.
You can’t make news out of history. If you wrote a story that was about a current event, and then included all the contextual pieces that you’ve gathered — that would be wonderful journalism. It would be better if you chronicled your exposes in a gonzo manner! You versus the Thai establishment, but you’re quick to deny that’s the case.
Mr Marshall, do you ever wonder that you might be the one being a wally, and that the other journalists remaining in Thailand, might not all be callous hacks living the easy life? Mr Marshall, do you have respect for the Thai monarchy?
The Three Thousand Year Old Wave
Typical Thai-mindset, there’s no pluralistic culture, identity, ideology but Thainess(which still under vigorous debate as whether there actually is one). This kind of mindset posts a big threat not only to the Moken, but also other ethnics minorities especially those in the deep south. A big obstacle on the road to a genuine democratic society too, I suppose. Just wonder whether there is a cure available?