Every (former) Khmer Rouge officers/leaders had committed and/or condoned mass murders of their own people. That would include the current Khmer PM Hun Sen whose name was mentioned in Nate’s chilling narrative above.
That chilling thought surely must be in every surviving Khmer person’s mind.
Thank you for the interesting (If rather depressing) analysis of the inner machinations and hatreds of the CPK leadership.
But I’m not convinced about the proposition “Although popularly labeled as Communists, evidence from previously unpublished interviews with all the top leadership of the Khmer Rouge show the movement and its murderous policies were founded and implemented on an amalgam of ideology and homegrown political theory uniquely Cambodian”. Interviews with these people will always avoid issues that they now dislike. David Chandler’s famous “Brother Number One” details how Pol Pot and others of the future CPK spent formative years in France, Vietnam and China absorbing various lessons of communism. And the CPK later followed a Maoist route to agrarian peasant-based revolution. Thayer describes the lack of conditions for revolution a la “Rice in the fields, fish in the rivers” but almost neglects to mention the US bombing campaign that was to devastate the countryside in the early 70’s and must have been instrumental in the rise of the KR.
I also dispute the idea that the Cambodian disaster had “its roots in traditional Cambodian political themes of nationalism, anti-colonialism, vitriolic abhorrence to foreign domination, sovereignty, retaking territory lost in past centuries to neighboring powers, racial superiority of the Khmer and racial hatred for foreigners”
What tradition is that? Thayer seems to imagine the Cambodian people have been harbouring grudges against their neighbours since the decline of the Angkor empire. Where is there any evidence for this continuous lineage of hate? When Henri Mouhot wrote in 1862 of his travels to Angkor Wat he remarked on how the local population had virtually no knowledge of the history of the ruins and many attributed them to the work of giants. Far from being any uniquely Cambodian tradition, what Thayer describes is yet another manifestation of extreme nationalism learnt relatively recently from Europeans, the same ideas that devastated so many countries throughout the 20th century.
Can not find anywhere in the review the Colonial period shaping the advent of “Might Is Right” of Ne Win and SPDC era.
May be some where in the book “The King in Exile: The Fall of the Royal Family in Burma” might be mentioned, the pivotal role of the British Colonists.
Probably in the disclaimer section.
All the review of this book has again prove that:
1) A system whose basic fabric that held a Union under “Buddhism” supplanted by a ‘monarchy’ that has absolute control over ‘the military’ is totally destroyed.
2) The colonial era that see the British first rule by ruthless might applying among other, methods that WILL qualify as WAR CRIME, ‘decimation’ and ‘4 cuts strategy’ to subjugate any oppositions. Thus Creating Aung San and subsequent dictators, absolute believers of “Tamadaw” as ‘the might that is right’.
3) Sakyas, Kammas indicate obviously using ” The Glass Palace Chronicle of The Kings of Myanmar” as a source to project understanding of a unique yet extremely complex culture.
However trying hard to pigeon hole Daw Aung San Suu Kyi within the context of Kammas and such sure make the book potentially patronizing at best insulting at the worst in light of the enormity of the quagmire created for a Citizenry, by being conquered and recipients of continual useless careless acts.
Hard to justify shelling out few hard earned ┬г┬г to find out. Will wait until available at local library.
A detailed analysis of Malaysia’s possible class war by Ahmad Fuad Rahmat:
WE are often told of how the bottom 40% of households in Malaysia earn RM 1500 or less on average. But we don’t hear as much about the fact that this bottom 40% represents 2.6 million households, or to be more exact, 12.4 million Malaysians.
The biggest bracket within that bottom 40% are comprised of 3.3 million Malaysians earning RM 1000 – 1500. The so-called middle class, the middle 40%, is represented by 2.4 million households, (or 10.4 million Malaysians) but incomes here average at only RM 3,770 per month.
At the same time, the top 20% of household earnings in Malaysia is 270% more than the middle class, and 680% more than the lowest 40%, peaking at an average of RM 10, 208 per month.
HRK & Mark Moran, I am currently reading Sorasak Ngamcachonkulkid’s book “Free Thai” about the Seri Thai movement in which he gives a detailed analysis of the elite groups on either side of the 1932 coup. He confirms that Great Britain was the favoured destination for royal & noble education but many also went to the US (Increasing numbers going there after 1932). Although France was generally avoided by the royals and upper nobles, there were exceptions such as Rama VII himself who spent 3 years between 1921-24 in France at their military academy. On the People’s Party side 20 Promoters had studied abroad, 8 in France, 5 in Germany; but only 4 in Britain where the upper elite dominated (And zero in the US). So there was somewhat of a educational/experiential split between the upper elite in Britain and those lesser elites in France/Germany who would later instigate the coup.
Well, I’ve taken a bit of time to review a few of the highlights of Batson’s treatment of Siam’s coup of 1932. I’m left with more questions than answers for sure.
Nich,
Perhaps Thawatt is giving too much credit to the men who carried out this coup when really the main protagonist here was the historical agency of the times with international economic and political factors looming over Prajadhipok and his close group of princely advisors. Mussolini, Fascism, Communism, the Great Depression, independence movements, fallen monarchies, a free press with discussions of parliaments and representative institutions–Batson shows how Prajahidpok was well aware that absolute monarchy was on the precipice. Despite Prajahidpok’s belief that Siam was not ready for democracy, he had tried to put forth a constitution as early as 1925 only for this proposal to be rejected by the princes. Even more interesting is that he wanted to grant a constitution on the 150th anniversary of the Chakri Dynasty on April 5th and again the princes opposed him. Later a prince admitted that Prajahidpok had said that there was going to be a coup d’etat and a military dictatorship if the constitution was not given.
I get the feeling from Batson that it was the whirlwind of economic and political factors in the world at the time that played a huge role in the success of the coup plotters.
Scot,
“Hagiography”? A bit strong don’t you think? I came across numerous instances of anti-establishment criticism in his book, for example several 1928 editorials from Thai students in England which attacked traditional Thai values and the teaching of Thai history. He also mentions those scholars Thai and Western who have questioned the traditional progressive interpretation of the “Chakri Reformation” including among others, Benedict Anderson, who, as Batson points out, argued that the “Chakri centralization served dynastic rather than national interests.”
He also uses source material, editorials from newspapers that are critical of the status quo at the time. That his sources and point of view are mainly from a Royalist perspective is a strength, not a weakness in understanding this time in Thai history as long as there are other works from other point of views available as a counter weight.
HRK,
The US was not a “main world power” by 1932?
According to Batson most of the elite of Siam were educated in England and this is possibly why the students from France were the ones behind the coup. The US and France were considered too radically republican.
Prajahidpok’s insight I found very interesting in particular his belief that the Thai people were still motivated by self-interest or factional-interest rather than civic spirit, that many nations “play at having parliaments,” and that the Chinese would control parliament with their money.
Also interesting that the American advisor Raymond Stevens, after having spent a mere four years in Siam, said that absolute monarchy would be the best form of government for some time to come.
I’d like to get a hold of Copeland’s and Barme’s works on the coup. PDF anywhere online?
“A Pew Research Center survey into the values, rituals and lifestyles of more than 35,000 Muslims around the world showed that the Muslims of Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand were often among the most enthusiastic followers of some of the five pillars of Islam: the declaration of faith, prayer, alms giving, fasting during Ramadan and going on a pilgrimage to Mecca.”
I wonder how devoutness correlates with the levels of corruption in these countries?
The deadline for submitting abstracts for the 4th International Lao Studies Conference has now passed, and we are pleased with the large number of abstracts that have come in. We are looking forward to an excellent conference!
Embarrassment all around for the Prime Minister at the United Malays National Organisation’s final general assembly before the upcoming election. John Bethelsen of Asia Sentinel reports:
A key figure involved in the cover-up of the spectacular 2006 murder of Mongolian national Altantuya Shaariibuu appears to have gone off the reservation, giving interviews to opposition media hinting at the involvement of Rosmah Mansor, the wife of Prime Minister Najib Tun Razak, in the conspiracy.
Coerced confession indeed Vichai – why else would two members of Malaysia’s special/elite security force, tasked as security detail to the Prime Minister’s family, take the rap for a murder which they had nothing to benefit from.
[…] Amidst all a disharmony in Bangkok over a Pitak Siam rally –a organisation of monarchists against to a Yingluck supervision who were ostensible to move hundreds of thousands of supporters into a streets– another, likewise critical square of news about Thailand’s decrease emerged. As it turns out, a Pitak Siam convene was mostly a bust. Only about 20,000 supporters indeed incited out to convene sites in Bangkok, a distant cry from a hundreds of thousands of people who came out in 2006 for anti-Thaksin rallies that eventually helped curt a 2006 coup. Although a Yingluck supervision overreacted by contracting a Internal Security Act in fear of a Pitak Siam rallies, a fact that a Pitak Siam leaders were plainly job for a “freeze” of democracy and for a troops coup, and had tighten ties to comparison troops leaders, were worrying adequate to a supervision to take critical measures. As it turns out, those were not unequivocally needed, and a spin of assault between protestors and a confidence army was comparatively low, during slightest by new Thai standards. Now, General Boonlert, a rally’s categorical organizer, says that he is stepping down as Pitak Siam’s leader. On New Mandala, connoisseur tyro Aim Simpeng has a fine research of a destitute rally. […]
Just a small clarification or two for the record. Matthew Copeland and I did not share research materials back in the early 90s. Matt kindly did show me some interesting political cartoons he came across while in the National Library of Thailand. During my later research I found a whole lot more. As far as I can recall our theses may have shared one or two of the same graphics – but that’s about all.
As for Nakkharin Mektrairat on ’32, I read both his MA and the longlish book he later published, and briefly referred to his work in mine ( the book version p.3) although not in any detail as that was outside the scope of my own study. So to say that he has gone ‘unnoticed’ is, strictly speaking, not entirely correct.
A salute to the Thai Police for a job well done. A group of violent thugs wanted to provoke an event and were foiled. Thumbs up.
Goverment house and the city of Bangkok are properly Protected by this govenment. NO SNIPERS, No fatalities, no illegitimate goverment hunkered down inside a military barraks.
Yeah.
And I am not a fan of Thaksin. I am a fan of RULE OF LAW!!! And Democracy though the ballot box.
[…] Amidst all the chaos in Bangkok over the Pitak Siam rally –a group of monarchists opposed to the Yingluck government who were supposed to bring hundreds of thousands of supporters into the streets– another, similarly important piece of news about Thailand’s decline emerged. As it turns out, the Pitak Siam rally was mostly a bust. Only about 20,000 supporters actually turned out to rally sites in Bangkok, a far cry from the hundreds of thousands of people who came out in 2006 for anti-Thaksin rallies that ultimately helped precipitate the 2006 coup. Although the Yingluck government overreacted by employing the Internal Security Act in fear of the Pitak Siam rallies, the fact that the Pitak Siam leaders were openly calling for a “freeze” of democracy and for a military coup, and had close ties to senior military leaders, were worrying enough to the government to take severe measures. As it turns out, those were not really needed, and the level of violence between protestors and the security forces was relatively low, at least by recent Thai standards. Now, General Boonlert, the rally’s main organizer, says that he is stepping down as Pitak Siam’s leader. On New Mandala, graduate student Aim Simpeng has a fine analysis of the busted rally. […]
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Lunching with mass murderers
Every (former) Khmer Rouge officers/leaders had committed and/or condoned mass murders of their own people. That would include the current Khmer PM Hun Sen whose name was mentioned in Nate’s chilling narrative above.
That chilling thought surely must be in every surviving Khmer person’s mind.
1932/2012: Reflecting on revolution
The book “Thai Politics 1932 – 1957”, edited by Thak Chaloemtiarana (Social Science Association 1978) provides some documents and a bit of analysis.
Lunching with mass murderers
Thank you for the interesting (If rather depressing) analysis of the inner machinations and hatreds of the CPK leadership.
But I’m not convinced about the proposition “Although popularly labeled as Communists, evidence from previously unpublished interviews with all the top leadership of the Khmer Rouge show the movement and its murderous policies were founded and implemented on an amalgam of ideology and homegrown political theory uniquely Cambodian”. Interviews with these people will always avoid issues that they now dislike. David Chandler’s famous “Brother Number One” details how Pol Pot and others of the future CPK spent formative years in France, Vietnam and China absorbing various lessons of communism. And the CPK later followed a Maoist route to agrarian peasant-based revolution. Thayer describes the lack of conditions for revolution a la “Rice in the fields, fish in the rivers” but almost neglects to mention the US bombing campaign that was to devastate the countryside in the early 70’s and must have been instrumental in the rise of the KR.
I also dispute the idea that the Cambodian disaster had “its roots in traditional Cambodian political themes of nationalism, anti-colonialism, vitriolic abhorrence to foreign domination, sovereignty, retaking territory lost in past centuries to neighboring powers, racial superiority of the Khmer and racial hatred for foreigners”
What tradition is that? Thayer seems to imagine the Cambodian people have been harbouring grudges against their neighbours since the decline of the Angkor empire. Where is there any evidence for this continuous lineage of hate? When Henri Mouhot wrote in 1862 of his travels to Angkor Wat he remarked on how the local population had virtually no knowledge of the history of the ruins and many attributed them to the work of giants. Far from being any uniquely Cambodian tradition, what Thayer describes is yet another manifestation of extreme nationalism learnt relatively recently from Europeans, the same ideas that devastated so many countries throughout the 20th century.
The inexorable pursuit of an Islamic State
[…] post first appeared in New Mandala. -35.276370 149.120489 Share this:SharePrintEmailDiggShare on Tumblr Pin ItLike this:LikeBe the […]
Review of The King in Exile
Closing bit of this review ought to be noted by the house of Chakri, no?
Lunching with mass murderers
thanks, Nate for your insightful account of DK’s leadership.
Lunching with mass murderers
Very interesting narrative. Thank you.
Review of The King in Exile
Does make an “interesting read”.
Can not find anywhere in the review the Colonial period shaping the advent of “Might Is Right” of Ne Win and SPDC era.
May be some where in the book “The King in Exile: The Fall of the Royal Family in Burma” might be mentioned, the pivotal role of the British Colonists.
Probably in the disclaimer section.
All the review of this book has again prove that:
1) A system whose basic fabric that held a Union under “Buddhism” supplanted by a ‘monarchy’ that has absolute control over ‘the military’ is totally destroyed.
2) The colonial era that see the British first rule by ruthless might applying among other, methods that WILL qualify as WAR CRIME, ‘decimation’ and ‘4 cuts strategy’ to subjugate any oppositions. Thus Creating Aung San and subsequent dictators, absolute believers of “Tamadaw” as ‘the might that is right’.
3) Sakyas, Kammas indicate obviously using ” The Glass Palace Chronicle of The Kings of Myanmar” as a source to project understanding of a unique yet extremely complex culture.
However trying hard to pigeon hole Daw Aung San Suu Kyi within the context of Kammas and such sure make the book potentially patronizing at best insulting at the worst in light of the enormity of the quagmire created for a Citizenry, by being conquered and recipients of continual useless careless acts.
Hard to justify shelling out few hard earned ┬г┬г to find out. Will wait until available at local library.
Class war in Malaysia – Going the Thai way?
A detailed analysis of Malaysia’s possible class war by Ahmad Fuad Rahmat:
WE are often told of how the bottom 40% of households in Malaysia earn RM 1500 or less on average. But we don’t hear as much about the fact that this bottom 40% represents 2.6 million households, or to be more exact, 12.4 million Malaysians.
The biggest bracket within that bottom 40% are comprised of 3.3 million Malaysians earning RM 1000 – 1500. The so-called middle class, the middle 40%, is represented by 2.4 million households, (or 10.4 million Malaysians) but incomes here average at only RM 3,770 per month.
At the same time, the top 20% of household earnings in Malaysia is 270% more than the middle class, and 680% more than the lowest 40%, peaking at an average of RM 10, 208 per month.
http://sayaanakbangsamalaysia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=766%3Aon-the-class-divide-at-home&catid=55%3Amedia&Itemid=100
1932/2012: Reflecting on revolution
HRK & Mark Moran, I am currently reading Sorasak Ngamcachonkulkid’s book “Free Thai” about the Seri Thai movement in which he gives a detailed analysis of the elite groups on either side of the 1932 coup. He confirms that Great Britain was the favoured destination for royal & noble education but many also went to the US (Increasing numbers going there after 1932). Although France was generally avoided by the royals and upper nobles, there were exceptions such as Rama VII himself who spent 3 years between 1921-24 in France at their military academy. On the People’s Party side 20 Promoters had studied abroad, 8 in France, 5 in Germany; but only 4 in Britain where the upper elite dominated (And zero in the US). So there was somewhat of a educational/experiential split between the upper elite in Britain and those lesser elites in France/Germany who would later instigate the coup.
1932/2012: Reflecting on revolution
Well, I’ve taken a bit of time to review a few of the highlights of Batson’s treatment of Siam’s coup of 1932. I’m left with more questions than answers for sure.
Nich,
Perhaps Thawatt is giving too much credit to the men who carried out this coup when really the main protagonist here was the historical agency of the times with international economic and political factors looming over Prajadhipok and his close group of princely advisors. Mussolini, Fascism, Communism, the Great Depression, independence movements, fallen monarchies, a free press with discussions of parliaments and representative institutions–Batson shows how Prajahidpok was well aware that absolute monarchy was on the precipice. Despite Prajahidpok’s belief that Siam was not ready for democracy, he had tried to put forth a constitution as early as 1925 only for this proposal to be rejected by the princes. Even more interesting is that he wanted to grant a constitution on the 150th anniversary of the Chakri Dynasty on April 5th and again the princes opposed him. Later a prince admitted that Prajahidpok had said that there was going to be a coup d’etat and a military dictatorship if the constitution was not given.
I get the feeling from Batson that it was the whirlwind of economic and political factors in the world at the time that played a huge role in the success of the coup plotters.
Scot,
“Hagiography”? A bit strong don’t you think? I came across numerous instances of anti-establishment criticism in his book, for example several 1928 editorials from Thai students in England which attacked traditional Thai values and the teaching of Thai history. He also mentions those scholars Thai and Western who have questioned the traditional progressive interpretation of the “Chakri Reformation” including among others, Benedict Anderson, who, as Batson points out, argued that the “Chakri centralization served dynastic rather than national interests.”
He also uses source material, editorials from newspapers that are critical of the status quo at the time. That his sources and point of view are mainly from a Royalist perspective is a strength, not a weakness in understanding this time in Thai history as long as there are other works from other point of views available as a counter weight.
HRK,
The US was not a “main world power” by 1932?
According to Batson most of the elite of Siam were educated in England and this is possibly why the students from France were the ones behind the coup. The US and France were considered too radically republican.
Prajahidpok’s insight I found very interesting in particular his belief that the Thai people were still motivated by self-interest or factional-interest rather than civic spirit, that many nations “play at having parliaments,” and that the Chinese would control parliament with their money.
Also interesting that the American advisor Raymond Stevens, after having spent a mere four years in Siam, said that absolute monarchy would be the best form of government for some time to come.
I’d like to get a hold of Copeland’s and Barme’s works on the coup. PDF anywhere online?
Malaysia’s Islamic future
Muslims in Southeast Asia are the most devout?
“A Pew Research Center survey into the values, rituals and lifestyles of more than 35,000 Muslims around the world showed that the Muslims of Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand were often among the most enthusiastic followers of some of the five pillars of Islam: the declaration of faith, prayer, alms giving, fasting during Ramadan and going on a pilgrimage to Mecca.”
I wonder how devoutness correlates with the levels of corruption in these countries?
http://blogs.wsj.com/searealtime/2012/08/27/southeast-asian-muslims-among-worlds-most-devout/?mod=e2tw
Fourth International Conference on Lao Studies
The deadline for submitting abstracts for the 4th International Lao Studies Conference has now passed, and we are pleased with the large number of abstracts that have come in. We are looking forward to an excellent conference!
Altantuya and Malaysia’s 13th general elections
Embarrassment all around for the Prime Minister at the United Malays National Organisation’s final general assembly before the upcoming election. John Bethelsen of Asia Sentinel reports:
A key figure involved in the cover-up of the spectacular 2006 murder of Mongolian national Altantuya Shaariibuu appears to have gone off the reservation, giving interviews to opposition media hinting at the involvement of Rosmah Mansor, the wife of Prime Minister Najib Tun Razak, in the conspiracy.
http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5006&Itemid=178
Altantuya and Malaysia’s 13th general elections
Coerced confession indeed Vichai – why else would two members of Malaysia’s special/elite security force, tasked as security detail to the Prime Minister’s family, take the rap for a murder which they had nothing to benefit from.
Pitak Siam’s failure
[…] Amidst all a disharmony in Bangkok over a Pitak Siam rally –a organisation of monarchists against to a Yingluck supervision who were ostensible to move hundreds of thousands of supporters into a streets– another, likewise critical square of news about Thailand’s decrease emerged. As it turns out, a Pitak Siam convene was mostly a bust. Only about 20,000 supporters indeed incited out to convene sites in Bangkok, a distant cry from a hundreds of thousands of people who came out in 2006 for anti-Thaksin rallies that eventually helped curt a 2006 coup. Although a Yingluck supervision overreacted by contracting a Internal Security Act in fear of a Pitak Siam rallies, a fact that a Pitak Siam leaders were plainly job for a “freeze” of democracy and for a troops coup, and had tighten ties to comparison troops leaders, were worrying adequate to a supervision to take critical measures. As it turns out, those were not unequivocally needed, and a spin of assault between protestors and a confidence army was comparatively low, during slightest by new Thai standards. Now, General Boonlert, a rally’s categorical organizer, says that he is stepping down as Pitak Siam’s leader. On New Mandala, connoisseur tyro Aim Simpeng has a fine research of a destitute rally. […]
1932/2012: Reflecting on revolution
Just a small clarification or two for the record. Matthew Copeland and I did not share research materials back in the early 90s. Matt kindly did show me some interesting political cartoons he came across while in the National Library of Thailand. During my later research I found a whole lot more. As far as I can recall our theses may have shared one or two of the same graphics – but that’s about all.
As for Nakkharin Mektrairat on ’32, I read both his MA and the longlish book he later published, and briefly referred to his work in mine ( the book version p.3) although not in any detail as that was outside the scope of my own study. So to say that he has gone ‘unnoticed’ is, strictly speaking, not entirely correct.
The smell of teargas in the morning
A salute to the Thai Police for a job well done. A group of violent thugs wanted to provoke an event and were foiled. Thumbs up.
Goverment house and the city of Bangkok are properly Protected by this govenment. NO SNIPERS, No fatalities, no illegitimate goverment hunkered down inside a military barraks.
Yeah.
And I am not a fan of Thaksin. I am a fan of RULE OF LAW!!! And Democracy though the ballot box.
Pitak Siam’s failure
[…] Amidst all the chaos in Bangkok over the Pitak Siam rally –a group of monarchists opposed to the Yingluck government who were supposed to bring hundreds of thousands of supporters into the streets– another, similarly important piece of news about Thailand’s decline emerged. As it turns out, the Pitak Siam rally was mostly a bust. Only about 20,000 supporters actually turned out to rally sites in Bangkok, a far cry from the hundreds of thousands of people who came out in 2006 for anti-Thaksin rallies that ultimately helped precipitate the 2006 coup. Although the Yingluck government overreacted by employing the Internal Security Act in fear of the Pitak Siam rallies, the fact that the Pitak Siam leaders were openly calling for a “freeze” of democracy and for a military coup, and had close ties to senior military leaders, were worrying enough to the government to take severe measures. As it turns out, those were not really needed, and the level of violence between protestors and the security forces was relatively low, at least by recent Thai standards. Now, General Boonlert, the rally’s main organizer, says that he is stepping down as Pitak Siam’s leader. On New Mandala, graduate student Aim Simpeng has a fine analysis of the busted rally. […]
The smell of teargas in the morning
I can not wait for the day this is what Myanmar Citizenry can whine about instead of facing this:
http://www.mizzima.com/news/inside-burma/8471-80-injured-in-monywa-crackdown.html