Comments

  1. plan B says:

    Nich

    Thanks for this exposé, long overdue.

    A far cry from few years ago when articles on arming the opposing groups and killing the Burmese seem to be more popular here at New Mandala.

    As long as the west as well as all ethnic groups within and without do not see or promote a common destiny of brothers/one citizenry within Myanmar then the quagmire the remnant of colonial legacy will continue.

    Promoting harmony among brothers require concessions by both the stronger group as well as the others.

    Prompting and bridging this neglected vast divide through concerted economic undertaking /activities will eventually lessen desire armed conflict over negotiation.

    This will require an international inputs/help beyond of divisive business as usual, knee jerk blame one party approach.

  2. plan B says:

    Alex Bookbinder assuming KNU is THE armed rep of all Kayin and KIA is to the Kachin, by extension make the most awful and ludicrous implication that Tamadaw must then be a rep of ALL Bamar!

    This simple minded assumption that Myanmar citizenry well being is having a successful NLD/Daw Aung San SUu Kyi has led to the decades useless careless policy by the west.

    This present attempts to divide a citizenry of brothers against brothers by western academics is another example why the quagmire of unending ethnic strife that is so hard to reverse.

    The longest civil war at this point require a combined political and economic solutions that will promote an irreversible acceptance.

    As in the example of the WA in the North. Economically and politically strong requiring even this military government to accept certain ‘unimaginable autonomy’ in exchange for peace.

    Clearing existing APMs voluntarily may be a win win for all.

    Resorting again to a western jaundice view of Myanmar by revisiting the yesteryear animosity and mistrust will NOT ensure no future deploying of new APMs.

    Already economic opportunities along the road leading or related to Dawei is being snatched up by the Chinese, Thai etc under the very area that KNU represent.

    Another missed opportunity at best towards WA like possibility at worst a continuation of no win war of attrition with plenty of APMS from both side..

  3. Ohn says:

    There are two separate issues here.

    The word “Rohingya” has been patently dusted up, repolished and heavily promoted for political accomplishment by interested parties who seem to have patiently infiltrated wide and deep especially among the “goody two shoes” communities. Some genuinely believing, some simply self-righteous.

    It is remarkable, there are people dying and tortured in hundreds on the ground, and the “Rohingya Advocates” were constantly and only talking about the name, the citizenship and land. If some one cuts your throat you are dead equally with or without citizenship. Same goes with hunger and disease.

    That is the second and most important and most urgent, immediate issue now.

    The local Arakanese stopping the international help to the people already displaced whatever they are called, whatever crime they have committed, is new lowest level of humanity, the world has descended to.

    Arakanese for active act of stopping knowing that it will lead to death and suffering of the large number of people, for Thein Sein,who every one is grovelling up, for letting that happen (remember no one in Burma can sneeze without the military say-so with or without this much celebrated fake “Instant Democracy” and national and international communities who stand by to dig up oil and gas with deals from Thein Sein letting these inconsequential people die and suffer with simple tut-tut. Everyone is there in Vientiane now. Sucking up Thein Sein who lets the Arakanese to starve the Rohingya or whateever they are called to death at this very minute.

    There is no reason to be proud to be human anymore. Human beasts are worse than animals one and all.

  4. Ohn says:

    Excellent synopsis and analysis.

    Truth hurts and many cannot take it. That’s how this muilitary lives for as long and successful as it has.

    With or without Tavoy, there are lots more money to be made in Karen areas.

    So long as there is money and power, it is easy to divide up any group. Principled people are all wither dead or assisinated or well marginalised now.

    The road is open and wide for military to take over with Norwegain help to processd the whole regioon for “development” which will leave ruins and rubble once it is done and dug up.

    Reduction of troops! No one believes in it. We are living 1984. More guns, more peace.

    By the way, the Kachins and Bamar soldiers were eating out of each other’s hands just before they started killing each other in June of 2011.

    Than Shwe is though consistant. Evil before, evil now and evil forever. It is the people who want to worship him and change their tune every season. He can’t be faulted for that.

    Soccar match!! Dream on.

  5. plan B says:

    Whether Alex Bookbinder like it or not his longing for the yesteryear portrayal of good Kayin being relentlessly persecuted by the evil Bamar, a fraud by itself, is fast coming to an end with the advent of SG Than Shwe own, Road Map To Discipline Democracy.

    Under this politics of RMTDD, even a repetition of previously most heinous unacceptable 4 cut strategy, MIGHT be viewed differently. No doubt in favor of present administration that is touting unity, trades and development the hallmark of RMTDD.

    Alex Bookbinder fixation on APMs need to transcend now to economic opportunities,that were only available to the military and their cronies are now available to ALL to be taken advantage of. A fact that the WA has learnt long ago, a dynamic changing factor,instead of bemoaning the end of the useless careless policy that sustained the conflicts in the first place.

    The era of sanction dictated responses is at end. If Alex Bookbinder is astute enough to realize this new dynamic he might yet be able to help the Kayin, a majority, by the way are in the delta area still toiling to escape from the effects of Nargis.

  6. Derek Tonkin says:

    Ralph

    The relevance is that from 1825 (after which Bengalis began to migrate in large numbers into Arakan) to 2012 – a period of 187 years – the governing authority in Arakan used the description ‘Rohingya’ only on an isolated number of occasions in the 1950s and 1960s. That is, the British never, and Independent Burma not at all during the last 45 years. On that flimsy basis, it seems to me difficult to argue that the administering authority in Burma/Myanmar has since 1825 ever seriously recognised Muslims resident in Rakhine State as ‘Rohingyas’.

    The point of Nay San Lwin’s article is accordingly difficult to fathom. Muslims of Bengali origin (and possibly others) should surely be recognised as Rakhine Muslims and those with a valid claim under Myanmar nationality law, revised as Suu Kyi has recommended in accordance with international standards and principles, should be granted citizenship. I’m sure she would agree. Indeed, don’t we all?

    Said President Thein Sein in his joint statement over the week-end with Norwegian Prime Minister Stoltenberg: “In turning to the current sectarian violence in Rakhine state, the President underlined Myanmar’s long history as a tolerant society with peoples of many different faiths, said that he would do everything possible to end the violence quickly and restore law and order, and pledged to resolve the present situation according to international standards.”

    So there we are. We surely all agree. End the violence and start the long, slow process of reconciliation. But please don’t still try to convince me that, because on a few isolated occasions ‘Rohingya’ was used some 45 years ago or more by senior officials, the moon is made of cheese.

  7. Derek Tonkin says:

    Yes, indeed. William Hague though loves to lecture and hector. He’s the hard man of Europe. He might even like to think Britain is still the colonial power. It is my impression that other European leaders avoid the term ‘Rohingya’ like the plague. Barrosso, Stoltenberg and Thorning-Schmidt, who have all just visited Myanmar, would never dream of being so boorish.

  8. Ralph Kramden says:

    Apologies Derek, I was asking what colonial records have to do with the article at NM which seemed to be about post-colonial use of the terms. This was in response to your comment about “The British did not use the term ‘Rohingya’ during their administration of Arakan 1825-1948…”. Just asking whether a colonial record is relevant to the position in the NM article?

    “The paper” refers to the linked paper and is not related to the question. I was just adding to your comment on the Mujahid rebellion.

  9. Thein Zan says:

    This is for Derek Tonkin. In the past also he used “Rohingya” many times. Even with Myanmar FM, he raised Rohingya issue during his visit to Burma.

    “We would like the problems, the unresolved problems of the status of the Rohingya people to be addressed by the leaders in Burma across politics,” British Foreign Secretary William Hague told reporters in Laos.

    http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/1235330/1/.html

  10. COMUNITA' SOLIDARISTA POPOLI says:

    When the burmese occupation authorities will start to withdraw some of their troops from Karen State we will maybe start to be interested in watching football matches. Before this, sorry, nothing to be happy for…

  11. Boxer says:

    This is just another piece that makes the westerners sound like experts of Myanmar which is directly contradictory to the reality. And while the ceasing fire is yet to be achieved between government army and KIA, this is just another dishonest article that intends to make the people outside Myanmar feel Myanmar is full of crap.

  12. Aung Moe says:

    The combined team playing against the team of movie actors were the 50:50 mixture of the Burmese soldiers from the LID 44 of Burma Army and the Karen soldiers of KNLA First Brigade.

    As shown clearly in the video at the You Tube link below they had been brutally killing each other just recently. The fact that they are now dropping their guns and able to play in a same team (not opposing teams) means a lot to both Burmese and Karen people.

    Maybe not to Alex Bookbinder and some other westerners, I guess!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0g5nwZxOSw

  13. COMUNITA' SOLIDARISTA POPOLI says:

    A soccer match is the probe of a genuine process of peace? Poor naive people! Alex Bookbinder analysis is (unfortunately) right. Only business oriented people can be happy about what is going on in Karen areas. And the burmese occupation authorities are even using these propaganda games to cheat some Karen. Thanks God there are still men trying to stand up in order to reach the goal of Karen struggle, that is not to become shareholders in financial and economical exploitation of Kawthoolei. Good article Mr. Bookbinder!

  14. R. N. England says:

    “State-sponsored violence in Arakan”? It is not reasonable to label as “state sponsorship” the Government’s wise policy of not being too hard on Myanmar’s majority religion, in what is clearly a religious conflict. I commend the writer for getting such obvious nonsense into the first couple of lines. It saves people the trouble of reading the rest.

  15. Aung Moe says:

    Is Alex Bookbinder another westerner in the disguise of doing academic research trying to put the wedge between Burmese and Karen brothers again?

    The restoring peace and rebuilding civility process is progressing so well between Karens and Burmese, they even had a friendly soccer match between the team of movie actors and the combined-team of Burmese Army LID-44 and KNLA First Brigade held in the Bee Lin town of Mon State on October 31 of this year.

    Alex Bookbinder should watch the video of soccer match at following link.

    http://www.mgkyautkhae.com/2012/11/blog-post_3.html

  16. plan B says:

    This incessant endeavors to prove each other wrong, through historical or anecdotal mentions, in this case Rohingyas, serve nothing but more division and further polarization among the humanity in western Myanmar.

    Worst detract from dealing with on the ground ongoing tragic realities.

    Western Myanmar similar to all other border region have been under the Rule by Fore (RbF) instead of the Rule of Laws (RoL) since immediately after independence.

    This present ethnic strife is purely the manifestation of a slight relief from:

    1)The long oppression by the military RbF.

    2)Continual crushing poverty.

    Sadly present situation will assure once more the need for RbF. Thus continuing the unacceptable status quo of last 6 decades.

    Until the other fixable factor of continual crushing poverty is addressed beyond knee jerk reactions to such as perceived HR violation,legitimacy issue etc by both the Buddhist Yakhine, Muslim Kala, the West and other regional player/Bangladesh, western Myanmar will continue to be in the overall quagmire of ethic strife.

    The alleviation of poverty must come first if the eventual RoL is desired.

  17. Derek Tonkin says:

    Ralph

    Always check references against original sources. Like those Spitfires said to be buried near Mingaladon, please show me the evidence.

    The pdf document to which you refer me quotes from diplomatic, not colonial records.

    I do not understand what you mean by “this paper”. Which paper?

  18. Ohn says:

    Very envy-ing. It is such luxury. To bury oneself in thorough in depth study of a subject like in “Mastermind”. May or may not help much in the current urgent crisis, but definitely going to advance the knowledge in meaningful and interesting way.

    Could I make amateurish suggestion? It is more than likely that like every where there will be people in and out of the place rathen than same people all the time.

    Still Faradi (Faraizi)Movement (1804-1838)of Haji Shariatullah(1781–1840) was likely to be major component. He was likely to have been of Sufi Sect. That is important in today’s world of Salafist up swing.

    It would be great to know the relation of people of today and their relationship back then.

    And the farming origin. Bengali are one of the best brains on earth- Tagore, Bose, Sen, Yunus. Likely that, like all communities, some are simply keen to tend the land and live quietly. You can even hear among the Rohingya diaspora in Saudi missing their fields (as opposed to land) today!

    Of course all are subject to being taken advantage of by several outside influences.

    Sounds a rewarding study! Happy days for you.

  19. plan B says:

    A mishmash of concerns under category of ‘Politics’, Morality and Finance.

    Politics: The very first time a military government has allowed an advancement in sorely needed development that is not achievable with guns. Albeit under the process of Road Map To Discipline Democracy.

    Finance: Loans/Aide and investment, the vital fuel need in any economy. Any improvement in “Supply and demand” will ultimately improve all citizenry well being.

    The concern about Daw Aung San Suu Kyi capability might be prove true yet. Myanmar is much more than the sum of struggle b/t DASSK and the military. Economic advisers are all readily available to all that wishes an economic for a successful Myanmar. At this point a better economy trounce every phobias.

    Morality: Morality has always been the domain of religion and conscience. Through out decades of useless careless policy of deprivation Myanmar has overall done extremely well morally. CONSIDERING all religious and related humanitarian undertakings every where sans Ne Win’s and other dubious characters contribution of course, must surely make any citizenry of Myanmar hopeful and proud

    The events in western Myanmar does however threaten to eclipse every positive process.

    Let us hope this time Myanmar can out run it own past that created this quagmire.

  20. Sam Deedes says:

    Benjamin Zawacki has his detractors, I know, but this strikes me as a very useful and detailed article. What I would like to know is what leverage acceptance of the insurgency as a Non International Armed Conflict (NIAC) has for involving the International Criminal Court (ICC), use of which is very much in the news at the moment.

    Zawacki in his analysis reports that “designation of the situation as a NIAC involves applying international humanitarian law (IHL) on top of already applicable international human rights law.”

    But it appears that only part of IHL is applicable to a NIAC.

    The question before us then is, given acceptance of the insurgency as a NIAC, which of the relevant parts of IHL are being contravened in order for the ICC to gain jurisdiction.