Hi, Annie: According to at least some databases, almost half of the so-called “Muslim World” (overall estimated total about 2 billion) lives in countries which are not particularly, noticeably or overtly “anti-U.S.: Indonesia(210 million plus), Bangladesh(160 million), India (248 million), China (130 million), Turkey (70 million), Ethiopia (40 million), U.S. (7 million) and let’s be very conservative and estimate that at least 20% of the other 1 billion are not particularly “anti-U.S.” which would seem to undermine your estimate that “80%” of the Muslim world “hates” the U.S. and/or is fanatically “anti-U.S”.
Hmmm. Yes, I understand your question. What I don’t understand is why I would care what you believe.
Want to be buddies with Andrew? Write him a private email rather than advertise it in a forum. If I wrote that it would not be passed because it’s off-topic. But you’re probably in the club.
“We are after all, both intelligent grown-ups.” >> I have seen, listened to(with some difficulty), and read Andrew. So I know. But re Annie, how should I know that her claim is true?
Re JFL, Lopez etc. For those appalled at everything, I wonder what you’re expecting? There are lunatics everywhere. You happen to be a lunatic too. Do you think you’d do any better in a position of representative leadership? So what fosters this predicament where liberals held to their principles become hyocrites? A representative situation where we’re represented and not lead. Pol Pot represented an enormous sickness, perhaps as Chomsky represents some sort of big bold author name academic sickness. As do Obama etc. They don’t have any great leadership capacity over your neighbour’s. They do have power, however, and how they exercise that power is fundamentally down to their character. If you see everyone as a vacuous lump you may as well look in the mirror.
If you’re so offended by these hyopcritical Western leaders, why pay attention to numbers of dead and not focus on some sort of post modern wank where your news is the only important news? It’s because your very own self-correcting narrative, existing in a healthy public sphere, is allowed to self-correct. It was much more difficult to correct your narrative in Cambodia under Pol Pot, or… even under some present-day Southeast Asian governments. Your narrative may be corrected for you! Having that ability to self-correct is not an evil, but a wonderful opportunity. This is not denying the horror of what has taken place unjustly as a result of hypocritical liberals, but suggesting that it’s our capacity to acknowledge it is an opportunity to do things better. Do you disagree?
No need for personal comments Andrew, that’s hardly professional and does you no credit.
Whatever you say, however you gyrate, you know well enough that the number of posts that made it is not the point, the number of posts that didn’t make it is the point. And it has nothing to do with dominating a thread or not – when I apologised to Tom Hoy for responding in error to a post of his, for example, the post didn’t make it. You and I both know what was intended by that bit of moderating so lets not pretend shall we? We are after all, both intelligent grown-ups.
My opinion is as stated, and my opinion is formed by my experience. You can attempt to justify it any way you want but my opinion did not miraculously appear out of thin air. But hey, you da boss and I know you will want to send that message from time to time.
Calling me names isn’t going to help so lets have no more of that shall we? If I accused someone of having a chip on their shoulder, we both know what would and what would not happen to the post.
Not sure where this chip on the shoulder comes from Annie. I did a quick count and have found 26 of your comments published in recent weeks. Yes, sometimes we don’t approve, or delay, comments. Mostly this happens when one or two voices are dominating the conversation. We want New Mandala to host a wide range of opinions and we often find that some careful moderation assists in achieving that objective.
Also not sure what your reference to the Thai embassy is about???
My statement calling Noam Chomsky’s work “drivel” was specifically in reference to a few of his writings: a 1977 article in the Nation (USA) called “Distortions at the Fourth Hand,” and his 1979 book co-authored with Herman, After the Cataclysm: The Political Economy of Human Rights.
In the 1970s, Chomsky repeatedly passed off the reports of refugees as Western propaganda, and has since refused to apologize for borderline genocide denial. That would be a career-ending move if he did the same for the German Holocaust. But Chomsky can fall back on his tenure and (often fanatical) following.
I don’t think John or Annie are suggesting that the US are the “Evil Incarnate/Resident Evil” (please correct me if I’m wrong) or that they are absolving Pol Pot – but I think its the perspective on how they are evaluated.
If within a liberal democracy, every human life is sacred – then whoever who takes them away, without due process (Abhisit, Thaksin, Pol Pot, Stalin, the Royal Malaysian Police, the numerous American Presidents, etc) should be evaluated with the same set of principles – no?
I can answer that. In my opinion, the moderation is arbitrary, partisan and inconsistent, and the moderators play the favourites game. New Mandala has become a club, and appears determined that Thai embassy money should not go to another university again. Everything and everyone has a price.
Unfortunately, in my opinion, it also means that New Mandala will wither and die or come under new management *shrug*.
Maybe I’m wrong, we’ll see. In the meantime, make hay while the sun shines.
Well, it isn’t really JFLee (an American) or Annie (not an American) say, its what around 40% of the world say, according to survey results I saw recently.
And about 80% of the moslem world. That appears not to worry Obama who still fondly imagines that the USA shines some kind of benevolent light upon the world and that the USA is the one and only indispensable power in the world. But this is just election year slobbering.
The USA has certainly brought some good things to the world, but in my opinion, just about everything that is detestable and loathsome also comes from there, including the biggest lie in the entire world.
Love,
Annie
Did you know that the brain of a sheep and the brain of a human have pretty much the same component parts and functions. This explains quite a bit really…
Maybe, but I think you take a complacent view. On UDD tv today there was the comment that, like the separatists in the south of Thailand, many reds no longer care to have a king. Even in a country where the non-BKK population has been largely lobotomised by a pernicious propaganda machine set up by those wonderful democracy-loving Americans, the tide appears to be turning.
Red villages, red schools, the UDD donating internet connections to schools because previous governments of all colours just don’t want the phrai being educated. It’s not random, UDD is getting organised and they have the people and the money to play the establishment at their own game. And win.
Unless Annie is mistaken.
Frankly I doubt that Thailand will get rid of the monarchy, but when this king, queen and the monstrous Prem are gone (may that day come soon), when all the parties have finished and all the eyes opened, the new king will be emasculated without the option.
Are you the same Chris Beale who ridiculously, repeat ridiculously, wants the Isan region to secede from Thailand? You are consistently silly Chris, but you know that already don’t you?
I think it is very healthy to talk about ‘republicanism’, the monarchy, the past many coups, the amendment issue of the Thai constitution , the much adored and much hated divisive Thaksin, the Red Shirts, the Yellow Shirts, the movie The King and Annie Thorpic (pun intended) . . . everything political, sinister and shady . . . etc etc.
In fact ‘Nittirat’, appropriately describing themselves as ‘the Enlightened Jurists’ want all the lawyers and aspiring Thai lawyers to go back to the basics of the principle(s) underlying the Thai constitution.
Thanks Igor for making a very good clarification. USA is NOT, I repeat, NOT “Evil Incarnate on Earth” despite what JFLee or Annie Thorpic say on the matter. A USA who could give us a Kim Kardashian and a bunch of Marvel Superheroes, in HD, could not be possibly be evil and would be oozing with goodness, a-la Iron Man.
I propbaly overdid it on the volume of posts here but the post you censored was the wrong one, in my opinon.
Mr (Herr Professor Doktor?) Geoffrey Cain branded Noam Chomsky’s views on the the ‘common knowledge’ of pol pot’s massacres and I posted a simple link to what Noam Chomsky actually said :
I see some confusion in these comments. Even if the U.S. is indeed “Evil Incarnate on Earth”, it is still no excuse and does not provide a “reason” to absolve Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge from the “evil” they brought to the smaller playing field of Cambodia.
Thanks Annie and John. Hmmm … pretty obvious which way the deck of cards fall.
Am wondering if the return of the US to Southeast Asia vis-a-vis China (increased political engagement in strategic areas (military & economic)) is a good thing?
ASEAN (or at least some of ASEAN members) managed big power competition well during the Cold War, and managed to develop their economies under US security guarantee.
Will it be the same case this time around?
No Pol Pots’ this time around in ASEAN but a healthy dose of US supporters from Myanmar/Burma to Malaysia (Hun Sen too, I’m sure) – so how?
The argument you propose is similar to the “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” argument, which is not very convincing. Also, bin Laden was not the enemy of Obama, he regarded Americans as a whole as being his enemy, and he’s far from being alone – largely a consequence of the behaviour of Americans themselves, though there is no excusing what he did.
However, Assange should, without a doubt, be supported. The recent film ‘We are legion’ is interesting and perhaps instructive in this regard.
It is a timely reminder that if we are going to be ashamed when what we do comes to light and exposes us as common criminals, then perhaps we shouldn’t do it, rather than cloaking ourselves in a phony righteous outrage and accusing those who bring it to light. Assange is merely a messenger, Don’t shoot the messenger, shoot those who make and send the messages.
Better and brighter! For perhaps selective groups. Yes. There will be international banks and most likely Japanese Stock Exchange with many new- wide, paved roads, rails and hundreds of hectors of port-yards and SEZ’s. And electricity and 4G as it is THE thing to have.
In two years if things go on as it is, good old Rangoon will be just like any other monolithic consumers’ haven of supermarkets,McDonalds, KFC’s, etc with new 4mm 50 inch TV on sale at Christmas time.
Even if one accepts these are why people live for together with reruns of “Friends”, “American Idol” and “Survival Philippines”, these will be literally on the sweat and blood of significant chunk of populace.
Just like the currently hunted down Kachins for the unforgivable, terrible crime of BEING THERE.
In fact, the people in Lapadaung (this is too Burman now, just off Shwebo) today may not really feel so bright or bettter. Neither in Phakant, or Pathein where three people got shot yesterday by police, etc. Fact is these are just the entrée. Main course is yet to be ordered. And ordered it will be.
With the current every-thing-is-good-and-wonderful-in-this-country-now track record, even if Aung San Suu Kyi does become President and the whole mammoth concrete block “Parliament”, (people have yet to find out what is being done there for millions of dollars in debt) is filled with hundreds and hundreds of NLD’s, hope for people in the street is at best uncertain.
Do you really want to bet how many millions of peasants now working quietly and peacefully on their ancestral farm land fending off the “authorities” around the country will be on the street begging in two years’ time?
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Counterpunch: Pol Pot wasn’t so bad
Hi, Annie: According to at least some databases, almost half of the so-called “Muslim World” (overall estimated total about 2 billion) lives in countries which are not particularly, noticeably or overtly “anti-U.S.: Indonesia(210 million plus), Bangladesh(160 million), India (248 million), China (130 million), Turkey (70 million), Ethiopia (40 million), U.S. (7 million) and let’s be very conservative and estimate that at least 20% of the other 1 billion are not particularly “anti-U.S.” which would seem to undermine your estimate that “80%” of the Muslim world “hates” the U.S. and/or is fanatically “anti-U.S”.
Counterpunch: Pol Pot wasn’t so bad
Hmmm. Yes, I understand your question. What I don’t understand is why I would care what you believe.
Want to be buddies with Andrew? Write him a private email rather than advertise it in a forum. If I wrote that it would not be passed because it’s off-topic. But you’re probably in the club.
Counterpunch: Pol Pot wasn’t so bad
“We are after all, both intelligent grown-ups.” >> I have seen, listened to(with some difficulty), and read Andrew. So I know. But re Annie, how should I know that her claim is true?
No good buttered tea, no good work
Anyone have odds on how long it takes Walker to earn the ire of someone holy in Beijing? Do they have baiju with yak butter tea too?
wo shua tai do!!
Counterpunch: Pol Pot wasn’t so bad
Re JFL, Lopez etc. For those appalled at everything, I wonder what you’re expecting? There are lunatics everywhere. You happen to be a lunatic too. Do you think you’d do any better in a position of representative leadership? So what fosters this predicament where liberals held to their principles become hyocrites? A representative situation where we’re represented and not lead. Pol Pot represented an enormous sickness, perhaps as Chomsky represents some sort of big bold author name academic sickness. As do Obama etc. They don’t have any great leadership capacity over your neighbour’s. They do have power, however, and how they exercise that power is fundamentally down to their character. If you see everyone as a vacuous lump you may as well look in the mirror.
If you’re so offended by these hyopcritical Western leaders, why pay attention to numbers of dead and not focus on some sort of post modern wank where your news is the only important news? It’s because your very own self-correcting narrative, existing in a healthy public sphere, is allowed to self-correct. It was much more difficult to correct your narrative in Cambodia under Pol Pot, or… even under some present-day Southeast Asian governments. Your narrative may be corrected for you! Having that ability to self-correct is not an evil, but a wonderful opportunity. This is not denying the horror of what has taken place unjustly as a result of hypocritical liberals, but suggesting that it’s our capacity to acknowledge it is an opportunity to do things better. Do you disagree?
Counterpunch: Pol Pot wasn’t so bad
No need for personal comments Andrew, that’s hardly professional and does you no credit.
Whatever you say, however you gyrate, you know well enough that the number of posts that made it is not the point, the number of posts that didn’t make it is the point. And it has nothing to do with dominating a thread or not – when I apologised to Tom Hoy for responding in error to a post of his, for example, the post didn’t make it. You and I both know what was intended by that bit of moderating so lets not pretend shall we? We are after all, both intelligent grown-ups.
My opinion is as stated, and my opinion is formed by my experience. You can attempt to justify it any way you want but my opinion did not miraculously appear out of thin air. But hey, you da boss and I know you will want to send that message from time to time.
Calling me names isn’t going to help so lets have no more of that shall we? If I accused someone of having a chip on their shoulder, we both know what would and what would not happen to the post.
Counterpunch: Pol Pot wasn’t so bad
Not sure where this chip on the shoulder comes from Annie. I did a quick count and have found 26 of your comments published in recent weeks. Yes, sometimes we don’t approve, or delay, comments. Mostly this happens when one or two voices are dominating the conversation. We want New Mandala to host a wide range of opinions and we often find that some careful moderation assists in achieving that objective.
Also not sure what your reference to the Thai embassy is about???
Counterpunch: Pol Pot wasn’t so bad
My statement calling Noam Chomsky’s work “drivel” was specifically in reference to a few of his writings: a 1977 article in the Nation (USA) called “Distortions at the Fourth Hand,” and his 1979 book co-authored with Herman, After the Cataclysm: The Political Economy of Human Rights.
In the post, I provided this link to the journalist Nate Thayer’s criticism of Chomsky, which might not be visible to all readers: http://natethayer.typepad.com/blog/2011/11/khmer-rouge-apologist-noam-chomsky-unrepentant-.html
In the 1970s, Chomsky repeatedly passed off the reports of refugees as Western propaganda, and has since refused to apologize for borderline genocide denial. That would be a career-ending move if he did the same for the German Holocaust. But Chomsky can fall back on his tenure and (often fanatical) following.
Counterpunch: Pol Pot wasn’t so bad
I don’t think John or Annie are suggesting that the US are the “Evil Incarnate/Resident Evil” (please correct me if I’m wrong) or that they are absolving Pol Pot – but I think its the perspective on how they are evaluated.
If within a liberal democracy, every human life is sacred – then whoever who takes them away, without due process (Abhisit, Thaksin, Pol Pot, Stalin, the Royal Malaysian Police, the numerous American Presidents, etc) should be evaluated with the same set of principles – no?
Counterpunch: Pol Pot wasn’t so bad
I can answer that. In my opinion, the moderation is arbitrary, partisan and inconsistent, and the moderators play the favourites game. New Mandala has become a club, and appears determined that Thai embassy money should not go to another university again. Everything and everyone has a price.
Unfortunately, in my opinion, it also means that New Mandala will wither and die or come under new management *shrug*.
Maybe I’m wrong, we’ll see. In the meantime, make hay while the sun shines.
Counterpunch: Pol Pot wasn’t so bad
Well, it isn’t really JFLee (an American) or Annie (not an American) say, its what around 40% of the world say, according to survey results I saw recently.
And about 80% of the moslem world. That appears not to worry Obama who still fondly imagines that the USA shines some kind of benevolent light upon the world and that the USA is the one and only indispensable power in the world. But this is just election year slobbering.
The USA has certainly brought some good things to the world, but in my opinion, just about everything that is detestable and loathsome also comes from there, including the biggest lie in the entire world.
Love,
Annie
Did you know that the brain of a sheep and the brain of a human have pretty much the same component parts and functions. This explains quite a bit really…
On Republicanism in Thailand
Maybe, but I think you take a complacent view. On UDD tv today there was the comment that, like the separatists in the south of Thailand, many reds no longer care to have a king. Even in a country where the non-BKK population has been largely lobotomised by a pernicious propaganda machine set up by those wonderful democracy-loving Americans, the tide appears to be turning.
Red villages, red schools, the UDD donating internet connections to schools because previous governments of all colours just don’t want the phrai being educated. It’s not random, UDD is getting organised and they have the people and the money to play the establishment at their own game. And win.
Unless Annie is mistaken.
Frankly I doubt that Thailand will get rid of the monarchy, but when this king, queen and the monstrous Prem are gone (may that day come soon), when all the parties have finished and all the eyes opened, the new king will be emasculated without the option.
A personal view.
On Republicanism in Thailand
Are you the same Chris Beale who ridiculously, repeat ridiculously, wants the Isan region to secede from Thailand? You are consistently silly Chris, but you know that already don’t you?
I think it is very healthy to talk about ‘republicanism’, the monarchy, the past many coups, the amendment issue of the Thai constitution , the much adored and much hated divisive Thaksin, the Red Shirts, the Yellow Shirts, the movie The King and Annie Thorpic (pun intended) . . . everything political, sinister and shady . . . etc etc.
In fact ‘Nittirat’, appropriately describing themselves as ‘the Enlightened Jurists’ want all the lawyers and aspiring Thai lawyers to go back to the basics of the principle(s) underlying the Thai constitution.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/314789/nitirat-for-1932-democracy-philosophy
They get my full-hearted support.
Counterpunch: Pol Pot wasn’t so bad
Link to Jeff Mudrick Khmer440 article in response to the Shamir piece….
http://www.khmer440.com/k/2012/09/historical-revisionism-and-the-contrarian-left-counterpunch-and-the-case-of-cambodia/
Counterpunch: Pol Pot wasn’t so bad
Thanks Igor for making a very good clarification. USA is NOT, I repeat, NOT “Evil Incarnate on Earth” despite what JFLee or Annie Thorpic say on the matter. A USA who could give us a Kim Kardashian and a bunch of Marvel Superheroes, in HD, could not be possibly be evil and would be oozing with goodness, a-la Iron Man.
Counterpunch: Pol Pot wasn’t so bad
I propbaly overdid it on the volume of posts here but the post you censored was the wrong one, in my opinon.
Mr (Herr Professor Doktor?) Geoffrey Cain branded Noam Chomsky’s views on the the ‘common knowledge’ of pol pot’s massacres and I posted a simple link to what Noam Chomsky actually said :
Noam Chomsky’s drivel
And that is the post you chose to censor.
I wonder why?
Counterpunch: Pol Pot wasn’t so bad
I see some confusion in these comments. Even if the U.S. is indeed “Evil Incarnate on Earth”, it is still no excuse and does not provide a “reason” to absolve Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge from the “evil” they brought to the smaller playing field of Cambodia.
Counterpunch: Pol Pot wasn’t so bad
Thanks Annie and John. Hmmm … pretty obvious which way the deck of cards fall.
Am wondering if the return of the US to Southeast Asia vis-a-vis China (increased political engagement in strategic areas (military & economic)) is a good thing?
ASEAN (or at least some of ASEAN members) managed big power competition well during the Cold War, and managed to develop their economies under US security guarantee.
Will it be the same case this time around?
No Pol Pots’ this time around in ASEAN but a healthy dose of US supporters from Myanmar/Burma to Malaysia (Hun Sen too, I’m sure) – so how?
Counterpunch: Pol Pot wasn’t so bad
IMHO, no and yes in that order.
The argument you propose is similar to the “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” argument, which is not very convincing. Also, bin Laden was not the enemy of Obama, he regarded Americans as a whole as being his enemy, and he’s far from being alone – largely a consequence of the behaviour of Americans themselves, though there is no excusing what he did.
However, Assange should, without a doubt, be supported. The recent film ‘We are legion’ is interesting and perhaps instructive in this regard.
It is a timely reminder that if we are going to be ashamed when what we do comes to light and exposes us as common criminals, then perhaps we shouldn’t do it, rather than cloaking ourselves in a phony righteous outrage and accusing those who bring it to light. Assange is merely a messenger, Don’t shoot the messenger, shoot those who make and send the messages.
я╗┐Myanmar reshuffle: the reform agenda
Thanks Derek,
Better and brighter! For perhaps selective groups. Yes. There will be international banks and most likely Japanese Stock Exchange with many new- wide, paved roads, rails and hundreds of hectors of port-yards and SEZ’s. And electricity and 4G as it is THE thing to have.
In two years if things go on as it is, good old Rangoon will be just like any other monolithic consumers’ haven of supermarkets,McDonalds, KFC’s, etc with new 4mm 50 inch TV on sale at Christmas time.
Even if one accepts these are why people live for together with reruns of “Friends”, “American Idol” and “Survival Philippines”, these will be literally on the sweat and blood of significant chunk of populace.
Just like the currently hunted down Kachins for the unforgivable, terrible crime of BEING THERE.
In fact, the people in Lapadaung (this is too Burman now, just off Shwebo) today may not really feel so bright or bettter. Neither in Phakant, or Pathein where three people got shot yesterday by police, etc. Fact is these are just the entrée. Main course is yet to be ordered. And ordered it will be.
With the current every-thing-is-good-and-wonderful-in-this-country-now track record, even if Aung San Suu Kyi does become President and the whole mammoth concrete block “Parliament”, (people have yet to find out what is being done there for millions of dollars in debt) is filled with hundreds and hundreds of NLD’s, hope for people in the street is at best uncertain.
Do you really want to bet how many millions of peasants now working quietly and peacefully on their ancestral farm land fending off the “authorities” around the country will be on the street begging in two years’ time?