Sure, the Arakanese are suffering with the help of local police orchestrating to appear victims by using make-up and what not. The Araknese aggressors also wear muslism clothing, hold stick and knives to take pictures. And they think they’re fooling the world.
Wouldn’t that be true of almost every farmer on a family-owned and run farm in the world now Andrew? I recall studies in Australia from more than a decade ago that made the point for the family farm, and studies for France and the US. That is, the farms keep solvent via off-farm income. I think I can find the old references if required.
For peace to be achieved among the various sects of Islam, one has to accept the differences in doctrines and rituals of the others. If Malaysia bans the Shias and other sects, Iran would ban the Sunnis and where will all this end? It will surely lead to strife and suffering among all Muslims and the rest would be affected too.
Therefore, the only way for peaceful co-existence is to allow complete freedom of beliefs. There should never be any compulsion in religion. Unto you your beliefs, unto me mine.
Only then, can peace have a good chance of being attained.
Many people are uncomfortable about the term “peasant”. I discuss why I use the term in the book. My question here is: what term would be better. “Farmer” is clearly inadequate to describe rural people who, in the majority of cases, earn most of their income off-farm. AW
You might also want to have a look at Robert Daley. 2011. “Thailand’s Agrarian Myth and Its Proponents.” Journal of Asian and African Studies 46 (4):342-360.
I am sure, Andrew would call the large-scale farmers in the USA “high-income peasants.” In German, the word “Bauer” (peasant) is not pejorative, but rather indicates an outdated, traditional view of people working in small-scale agriculture (although there is also the word “Grossbauer” to indicate large-scale operations, but this is more of a historical term). The modern expression is the more technocratic, management oriented “Landwirt” (farmer). For details, see the section on “Zu den Begriffen Landwirt und Bauer” in your beloved Wikipedia (German version) at http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landwirt.
The term traditionalism used by Towler is is to be distinguished from traditions. In fact it is true that some traditions are good. Towler was using the term to describe as a style of thought, the way classical sociologist Karl Mannheim had used it. A clear distinction of the term has been used by Dr Shaharuddin Maaruf (1992) who sees traditions as value systems which have been influential in moulding or shaping the world-view of a given people for a significant period in their cultural history; and provides a stable core which guides the society’s responses to contemporary problems and future challenges. The nature and premise of tradition itself promotes progress which caters for adjustments, adaptations, assimilation of new elements, and the discarding of obsolete ones; whilst simultaneously maintaining the basic or fundamental elements of the cultural heritage of the past. Hope this helps.
Why use the term “traditionalism” to imply authoritarian and bad, something that needs to be overthrown? Some traditions are bad, and some are beautiful and uplifting. The best art of the world’s cultures is traditional. Should it be crushed in the name of “change”? This bungled use of language is part of the post-modernist tradition, one that definitely needs to be overthrown.
[…] carefully articulated article inScience. Smith was part of the World bank team backing the socially devastating Nam Theun 2 dam. But it was his conclusion about river bank erosion that exposed elite […]
“The power of the pro-Thaksin movement lies in a middle-income peasantry whose thoroughly modern political goal is to bind itself to the state, not to oppose it.”
I think you have to admit that Thaksin’s demogogue brand of authoritarianism was not “thoroughly modern”, likewise “middle income peasants” binding themselves to such would also not be “thoroughly modern” (e.g. keeping things out of parliamentary debate and governing by cabinet decree, one man and one party dominance of politics over long periods of time, acceptance of extrajudicial killings by police as a legitimate form of law enforcement and justice, etc etc).
The transparency that would come from an independent local media monitoring in detail what is happening at the local level so people can think for themselves and not just follow (stimulus-response style) the promptings of the local power broker (e.g. Banharn) who in turn is hooked up to the national demogogue (e.g. Thaksin, Sarit) but rather select from a wide array of democratic alternative candidates and policy platforms that are continually changing and adapting to constituent needs based on past performance, successes, failures, could make it thoroughly modern.
Also can’t wait to find out why the term “peasant” is used because quite frankly I don’t think you hear that word being used much for farmers in Thailand. In fact, as Wikipedia points out the term is also used “as slang to refer pejoratively to those of poorer education who come from a lower income background.” The term certainly is evocative though. By using it you hook into the whole 19th century social-scape, for instance as portrayed by Balzac in his comedie humaine and in particular in Les Paysans, one of Marx’s favourites. The term “middle-income peasant” immediately brings to mind post-Russian revolution history and efforts to collectivize agriculture [Wikipedia: “According to Bolshevik doctrine, the Russian peasantry was divided into three categories: poor peasants (bednyaks), individuals who were forced to sell their labor to others to survive and were thus regarded as natural allies of the new Soviet regime; “middle” peasants (serednyaks), who conducted farming operations on their own land with their own labor; and wealthy peasants (kulaks), who profited through the hired labor of others”]
Has traditionalism and cultural-ism overtakes the doctrines of old ? Quite right to say that religious practice follows the trend and liking of the people formed by advancement in technologies and knowledge . Is the old religious doctrines ready to be thrown out the window? God may still care about his people but do the people still cares for god ?
What Towler says about Islam in Malaysia’s views on heresy seems very similar to Monarchism/LM/112 in Thailand:
….”Towler characterises religious traditionalism as the blind, emotional adherence to selected traditions transmitted from the past and a marked attitude that is non-questioning. In this style of belief, one cannot explain what is believed; rather, the best one can do is to recite or quote a verse from sacred texts. Furthermore, the selection of religious traditions inherited from scholars of the past are deemed absolute, immutable and binding, without need to justify the bases of selection amid the existence of different readings of the same traditions or other conflicting traditions. As Towler puts it, “The implicit plea which underlies traditionalism is not for questions to be answered, but for all questioning to be taken away and put under lock and key of a trustworthy authority.”
Had Walker omittted ‘middle-income’ when he said “The power of the pro-Thaksin movement lies in a (omitted) peasantry whose thoroughly modern political goal is to bind itself to the state, not to oppose it”, would it have lost its bite?
Because with the Thailand (Bangkok?) middle-class vocally and palpably against him, Thaksin and his PTP party crack or leak from lack of credibility and legitimacy.
But in my humble opinion it is rather oxymoronic to describe the Thai peasantry segment (with or without the middle-income prefix) bound to Thaksin (and only Thaksin) as being motivated by “thoroughly modern political goal to . . .”
I’ve lived in Cambodia for 7 years, in 2 periods from 2000-2012 and can say that I absolutely agree with the analysis given in Cambodia’s Curse. The corruption and cruelty of government cannot be emphasized enough, and though it is obvious that things have improved since Pol Pot’s reign, I fear that things are not so improved as Hun Sen may want everyone to think. Look at this article and you’ll see what I mean. Government endorsed trafficking, government enforced land-grabbing, the new NGO law, etc… it all points to an increasingly authoritarian government which is less and less responsive, while becoming increasingly exploitive of its people. There has not been one fair election since the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, and the sad thing is that even if Hun Sen miraculously was removed from government, there would be 20 other potential dictators to take his place. http://www.phnompenhpost.com/index.php/2012051756224/National-news/girl-killed-in-eviction.html
An ideal nation that only a few who are brave like you could envisioned . But the time has not yet come for Malaysians and the politicians to sacrifice their gain or comfort and bravely embrace such an ideal society and nation.
Can any race or religion save Malaysia or the world? As we know , history tells us that using race and religion had failed to bring peace and a truly developed Utopian nation on earth . But yet man failed to see it but continues to pursue a government base on racial and religious sentiment.
If only there is a way to teach and produce true leaders who love to serve others as he love himself then maybe an ideal nation that now only a few brave souls dare to dream may materialised in future .
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Thailand’s Political Peasants
Thanks Ralph. Indeed. So “farmer” is just as problematic as “peasant”.
Intolerance, Islam and the Internet in Burma
Than Dote (Post #6)
Sure, the Arakanese are suffering with the help of local police orchestrating to appear victims by using make-up and what not. The Araknese aggressors also wear muslism clothing, hold stick and knives to take pictures. And they think they’re fooling the world.
Thailand’s Political Peasants
Wouldn’t that be true of almost every farmer on a family-owned and run farm in the world now Andrew? I recall studies in Australia from more than a decade ago that made the point for the family farm, and studies for France and the US. That is, the farms keep solvent via off-farm income. I think I can find the old references if required.
Constructing the deviant ‘other’ – religious traditionalism in contemporary Malaysia
For peace to be achieved among the various sects of Islam, one has to accept the differences in doctrines and rituals of the others. If Malaysia bans the Shias and other sects, Iran would ban the Sunnis and where will all this end? It will surely lead to strife and suffering among all Muslims and the rest would be affected too.
Therefore, the only way for peaceful co-existence is to allow complete freedom of beliefs. There should never be any compulsion in religion. Unto you your beliefs, unto me mine.
Only then, can peace have a good chance of being attained.
Thailand’s Political Peasants
Many people are uncomfortable about the term “peasant”. I discuss why I use the term in the book. My question here is: what term would be better. “Farmer” is clearly inadequate to describe rural people who, in the majority of cases, earn most of their income off-farm. AW
Thailand’s Political Peasants
Jon (II):
You might also want to have a look at Robert Daley. 2011. “Thailand’s Agrarian Myth and Its Proponents.” Journal of Asian and African Studies 46 (4):342-360.
Thailand’s Political Peasants
Jon:
I am sure, Andrew would call the large-scale farmers in the USA “high-income peasants.” In German, the word “Bauer” (peasant) is not pejorative, but rather indicates an outdated, traditional view of people working in small-scale agriculture (although there is also the word “Grossbauer” to indicate large-scale operations, but this is more of a historical term). The modern expression is the more technocratic, management oriented “Landwirt” (farmer). For details, see the section on “Zu den Begriffen Landwirt und Bauer” in your beloved Wikipedia (German version) at http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landwirt.
Constructing the deviant ‘other’ – religious traditionalism in contemporary Malaysia
The term traditionalism used by Towler is is to be distinguished from traditions. In fact it is true that some traditions are good. Towler was using the term to describe as a style of thought, the way classical sociologist Karl Mannheim had used it. A clear distinction of the term has been used by Dr Shaharuddin Maaruf (1992) who sees traditions as value systems which have been influential in moulding or shaping the world-view of a given people for a significant period in their cultural history; and provides a stable core which guides the society’s responses to contemporary problems and future challenges. The nature and premise of tradition itself promotes progress which caters for adjustments, adaptations, assimilation of new elements, and the discarding of obsolete ones; whilst simultaneously maintaining the basic or fundamental elements of the cultural heritage of the past. Hope this helps.
Constructing the deviant ‘other’ – religious traditionalism in contemporary Malaysia
Why use the term “traditionalism” to imply authoritarian and bad, something that needs to be overthrown? Some traditions are bad, and some are beautiful and uplifting. The best art of the world’s cultures is traditional. Should it be crushed in the name of “change”? This bungled use of language is part of the post-modernist tradition, one that definitely needs to be overthrown.
Nam Theun 2: what about the Xe Bang Fai?
[…] carefully articulated article inScience. Smith was part of the World bank team backing the socially devastating Nam Theun 2 dam. But it was his conclusion about river bank erosion that exposed elite […]
Thailand’s Political Peasants
“The power of the pro-Thaksin movement lies in a middle-income peasantry whose thoroughly modern political goal is to bind itself to the state, not to oppose it.”
I think you have to admit that Thaksin’s demogogue brand of authoritarianism was not “thoroughly modern”, likewise “middle income peasants” binding themselves to such would also not be “thoroughly modern” (e.g. keeping things out of parliamentary debate and governing by cabinet decree, one man and one party dominance of politics over long periods of time, acceptance of extrajudicial killings by police as a legitimate form of law enforcement and justice, etc etc).
The transparency that would come from an independent local media monitoring in detail what is happening at the local level so people can think for themselves and not just follow (stimulus-response style) the promptings of the local power broker (e.g. Banharn) who in turn is hooked up to the national demogogue (e.g. Thaksin, Sarit) but rather select from a wide array of democratic alternative candidates and policy platforms that are continually changing and adapting to constituent needs based on past performance, successes, failures, could make it thoroughly modern.
Also can’t wait to find out why the term “peasant” is used because quite frankly I don’t think you hear that word being used much for farmers in Thailand. In fact, as Wikipedia points out the term is also used “as slang to refer pejoratively to those of poorer education who come from a lower income background.” The term certainly is evocative though. By using it you hook into the whole 19th century social-scape, for instance as portrayed by Balzac in his comedie humaine and in particular in Les Paysans, one of Marx’s favourites. The term “middle-income peasant” immediately brings to mind post-Russian revolution history and efforts to collectivize agriculture [Wikipedia: “According to Bolshevik doctrine, the Russian peasantry was divided into three categories: poor peasants (bednyaks), individuals who were forced to sell their labor to others to survive and were thus regarded as natural allies of the new Soviet regime; “middle” peasants (serednyaks), who conducted farming operations on their own land with their own labor; and wealthy peasants (kulaks), who profited through the hired labor of others”]
Constructing the deviant ‘other’ – religious traditionalism in contemporary Malaysia
Has traditionalism and cultural-ism overtakes the doctrines of old ? Quite right to say that religious practice follows the trend and liking of the people formed by advancement in technologies and knowledge . Is the old religious doctrines ready to be thrown out the window? God may still care about his people but do the people still cares for god ?
Constructing the deviant ‘other’ – religious traditionalism in contemporary Malaysia
What Towler says about Islam in Malaysia’s views on heresy seems very similar to Monarchism/LM/112 in Thailand:
….”Towler characterises religious traditionalism as the blind, emotional adherence to selected traditions transmitted from the past and a marked attitude that is non-questioning. In this style of belief, one cannot explain what is believed; rather, the best one can do is to recite or quote a verse from sacred texts. Furthermore, the selection of religious traditions inherited from scholars of the past are deemed absolute, immutable and binding, without need to justify the bases of selection amid the existence of different readings of the same traditions or other conflicting traditions. As Towler puts it, “The implicit plea which underlies traditionalism is not for questions to be answered, but for all questioning to be taken away and put under lock and key of a trustworthy authority.”
Thailand’s Political Peasants
Had Walker omittted ‘middle-income’ when he said “The power of the pro-Thaksin movement lies in a (omitted) peasantry whose thoroughly modern political goal is to bind itself to the state, not to oppose it”, would it have lost its bite?
Because with the Thailand (Bangkok?) middle-class vocally and palpably against him, Thaksin and his PTP party crack or leak from lack of credibility and legitimacy.
But in my humble opinion it is rather oxymoronic to describe the Thai peasantry segment (with or without the middle-income prefix) bound to Thaksin (and only Thaksin) as being motivated by “thoroughly modern political goal to . . .”
Thailand’s Political Peasants
“bind itself to the state” — from a different theoretical perspective, this is about the process of inclusion into the thai political system.
Thailand’s Political Peasants
thank you for your real-life perspective
Review of Cambodia’s Curse
I’ve lived in Cambodia for 7 years, in 2 periods from 2000-2012 and can say that I absolutely agree with the analysis given in Cambodia’s Curse. The corruption and cruelty of government cannot be emphasized enough, and though it is obvious that things have improved since Pol Pot’s reign, I fear that things are not so improved as Hun Sen may want everyone to think. Look at this article and you’ll see what I mean. Government endorsed trafficking, government enforced land-grabbing, the new NGO law, etc… it all points to an increasingly authoritarian government which is less and less responsive, while becoming increasingly exploitive of its people. There has not been one fair election since the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, and the sad thing is that even if Hun Sen miraculously was removed from government, there would be 20 other potential dictators to take his place. http://www.phnompenhpost.com/index.php/2012051756224/National-news/girl-killed-in-eviction.html
Formation of 1Malaysia national culture in the ‘new regime’
An ideal nation that only a few who are brave like you could envisioned . But the time has not yet come for Malaysians and the politicians to sacrifice their gain or comfort and bravely embrace such an ideal society and nation.
Can any race or religion save Malaysia or the world? As we know , history tells us that using race and religion had failed to bring peace and a truly developed Utopian nation on earth . But yet man failed to see it but continues to pursue a government base on racial and religious sentiment.
If only there is a way to teach and produce true leaders who love to serve others as he love himself then maybe an ideal nation that now only a few brave souls dare to dream may materialised in future .
Review of Revolution Interrupted
sounds like the sour grapes from the Postbag
Thailand’s Political Peasants
Wouldn’t it have been fruitful to study in the North East for obvious reasons?