Clive Kessler has an excellent article arguing why the Malaysia Solution is the best solution.
Having spent a scholarly life, over half a century, studying Malaysian society, culture and politics, I know those shortcomings far better than most. Even so, there is a good case to be made for the ”Malaysian solution”.
It provides the most workable, humane, long-term sustainable approach now on offer. It is a policy that stands somewhere between saying no to everybody and yes to everybody who shows up here.
1) Singapore
2) Governments shouldn’t do anything with citizens who want greater freedoms. Doing something with them would be illiberal.
3) The tipping point would be where many are restricted from doing things with their money which wouldn’t harm another. At that point, the government would begin to make liberal concessions to adapt to new circumstances to maintain governance.
4) Governments who need to say they’re going to do something positive for democracy or freedom need to be slightly more specific about what they’re going to do rather than make shell-like statements that are later found by excited children to be empty on the beach of political despair. Malaysia’s world class democracy seems to be a bit like I-City in Shah Alam.
5) If government linked corporations adhere to the principles(?) of the free market, they should feel obligated to enable citizens growth, which is best achieved with more social and political freedom.
Feel I’ve answered some loaded questions, but in this case, I am happy to be a fish caught on the beach of political despair!
Loathe as I am to return to this thread I feel it is important to end it with a recent Reuters’ report on the PAD which states
“The Asian Human Rights Commission accused the group in 2008 of “fascist qualities” and said it posed “grave dangers” to Thai democracy”.
So much for me “not understanding” how the media works and all the shrill excuses from Dan, Greg etc about why it would be impossible to call a spade a spade.
This Reuters’ piece at least mentions a different viewpoint yet also misses the opportunity to publish the PAD’s own, avowed anti-democratic agenda. So, a good start, but ultimately disappointing.
Ralph said Can someone clear something up for me? Are the reconciliation bills referred to here the bills that the Constitutional Court made its ruling on? None of these have any relationship to Section 68 of the Constitution.
While the bills are likely to face constitutional problems, the Constitutional Court issued an order in relation to the constitutional amendments and NOT the reconciliation bills. The bills are unaffected by the court order.
Bkk lawyer said What’s the intent behind the 10 May cutoff in drafts 1 and 3? The cut-off is 2011 and not 2010…
Murray, I think how hippocritical this is because most land in developed countries was cleared over a century ago………………
I would not call this hypocritical, they did not do it their ancestors did. I would call it speaking from the experience of living where it has already happened
What’s the intent behind the 10 May cutoff in drafts 1 and 3? Is it to protect the Red Shirts at Ratchaprasong but not the govt and military crackdown there? If so, the Reds could still be prosecuted for the post-10 May occupation, not to mention the 19 May arson. That’s an exception big enough to drive an army tank through.
In the interests of fairness…..
Cults – and personality cults are culturally prevalent in SE Asia and Thailand in particular. Historically there are “cults” of Buddha worship, Rama V worship, lingam worship, various mythical princess worships, Phibun and Sarit worship, Korean pop group worship, Thaksin worship and of course worship of the once mighty dollar.
All are cults in my opinion and the more altruistic (such as Buddhism) more worthy of veneration than others. I have not yet understood the deeper need to venerate in Thai society though I appreciate it is a universal human need that has been eagerly tapped into by power structures for several hundred years and probably much longer.
More propagation on the understanding of freedom for each and every human to live a happy life as one deem fit and according to one’s faith would be more effective in combating religious intolerance or rather religious bigotry.
Interfaith dialogue only brings the different faith believers together for the purpose of implementing rules and laws to control the reactions and behaviours of the believers for maintaining the artificial and false peace in Malaysia. True peace will only come when Malaysians understand and believed that freedom of faith is the rights of each and every human beings on earth.
When the government and religious authority in Malaysia can believed and accept this freedom ,then true peace and harmony will be established. Interfaith dialogues are just like the peace talks between the Palestine and Israel , where both or one party cannot accept the other to live in peace.
Only when all knows the truth and are free would there be peace . For many are held captive by their pride and believe that they alone are superior and above others . That is the situation in Malaysia and only an understanding and believe that all man are free to follow and practice his/her faith would there be peace and prosperity.
Trying to create as many “common” enemies as posible, to muster the troops, no matter how bizarre. That’s the sign of desparation displayed by the BN govt.
My prediction – BN will survive another election and retain Federal power but lose more states to PR. This is on account of East Malaysia. BN will lose Federal in 2018 as East Malaysians finally kick out the current crop of “local” politicians. What BN will do in that scenario is anybody’s guess.
Singapore High Commissioner Ong Keng Yong was summoned to Wisma Putra today, over the involvement of three diplomats from the commission in the illegal Bersih 3.0 gathering on April 28.
This is an extremely complex problem. Traditional verse state rights, the right to an existence, and above all education. South of the border in Malaysia state reserve forest land is being cleared illegally with no enforcement. This is a major issue not only in Thailand but around the world.
How long will it be before the vast jungles of Equatorial Africa are cleared?
On the other hand when I hear middle class academics from Western countries who tell third world communities that they shouldnt clear these lands, I think how hippocritical this is because most land in developed countries was cleared over a century ago.
What are the answers to these problems? In 2012 we dont yet have a solution and are only just idnetifying the problem.
A man in the science area who’s just been stripped of his Ph.D. is still OK as head of NIA, a government science department?! Who’s attempted to de-fraud one of the country’s leading universities?! Who’s publicly known to be a plagiarist!
Even for people who already regard Thailand as a totally wacky and insubstantial country, that seems a stretch.
Pornchai Rujiprapha, Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Science & Technology and acting Chairman of NIA Board for 18 months now- (they can’t seem to find anyone gullible enough to fill the seat…) told Thai Rath (national daily) that the Chula result will not affect Supachai’s position at NIA as ‘he did not use his PhD degree as a qualification when applying for his position’. Srithanonchai.
It seems that despite the revocation of Supachai’s degree, Pornchai considers Supachai a fine and upstanding leader, ideally qualified to manage NIA’s substantial budget and its intellectual property programme. He also seems convinced that Supachai and NIA continue to enjoy public confidence, at home and abroad.
You’re right : seek and ye shall find. Thanks to you for pointing that out, and cred to the author of the article you reference. (Yes, I read it too.)
I’m sorry, but, to ‘ordinary person’ (post # 9) – you just haven’t been paying attention, have you ?
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Review of Saying the Unsayable
Can anybody link to a photo of the 23 Dec 2003 Vietnam-Thailand game mentioned by Richard Ruth?
Thank you.
Australians, cattles, refugees and Four Corners
Clive Kessler has an excellent article arguing why the Malaysia Solution is the best solution.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/asylum-deal-could-be-solution-to-many-malaysian-shortcomings-20120625-20ygz.html#ixzz1yqn8fbXv
Thailand’s reconciliation proposals
Thanks Bangkok Pundit. The way you have it is the way I had understood it. The construction of the post led me to ask the question.
Intolerance, Islam and the Internet in Burma
Full text of “Burmah and the Burmese: in two books”
http://www31.us.archive.org/stream/burmahandburmes01mackgoog/burmahandburmes01mackgoog_djvu.txt
Southeast Asia’s illiberal regimes
1) Singapore
2) Governments shouldn’t do anything with citizens who want greater freedoms. Doing something with them would be illiberal.
3) The tipping point would be where many are restricted from doing things with their money which wouldn’t harm another. At that point, the government would begin to make liberal concessions to adapt to new circumstances to maintain governance.
4) Governments who need to say they’re going to do something positive for democracy or freedom need to be slightly more specific about what they’re going to do rather than make shell-like statements that are later found by excited children to be empty on the beach of political despair. Malaysia’s world class democracy seems to be a bit like I-City in Shah Alam.
5) If government linked corporations adhere to the principles(?) of the free market, they should feel obligated to enable citizens growth, which is best achieved with more social and political freedom.
Feel I’ve answered some loaded questions, but in this case, I am happy to be a fish caught on the beach of political despair!
The end, the beginning
Loathe as I am to return to this thread I feel it is important to end it with a recent Reuters’ report on the PAD which states
“The Asian Human Rights Commission accused the group in 2008 of “fascist qualities” and said it posed “grave dangers” to Thai democracy”.
So much for me “not understanding” how the media works and all the shrill excuses from Dan, Greg etc about why it would be impossible to call a spade a spade.
This Reuters’ piece at least mentions a different viewpoint yet also misses the opportunity to publish the PAD’s own, avowed anti-democratic agenda. So, a good start, but ultimately disappointing.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/06/17/uk-thailand-politics-idUKBRE85G07L20120617
Thailand’s reconciliation proposals
Ralph said Can someone clear something up for me? Are the reconciliation bills referred to here the bills that the Constitutional Court made its ruling on? None of these have any relationship to Section 68 of the Constitution.
While the bills are likely to face constitutional problems, the Constitutional Court issued an order in relation to the constitutional amendments and NOT the reconciliation bills. The bills are unaffected by the court order.
Bkk lawyer said What’s the intent behind the 10 May cutoff in drafts 1 and 3? The cut-off is 2011 and not 2010…
Blaming villagers for global warming
Murray, I think how hippocritical this is because most land in developed countries was cleared over a century ago………………
I would not call this hypocritical, they did not do it their ancestors did. I would call it speaking from the experience of living where it has already happened
Thailand’s reconciliation proposals
What’s the intent behind the 10 May cutoff in drafts 1 and 3? Is it to protect the Red Shirts at Ratchaprasong but not the govt and military crackdown there? If so, the Reds could still be prosecuted for the post-10 May occupation, not to mention the 19 May arson. That’s an exception big enough to drive an army tank through.
Review of Saying the Unsayable
In the interests of fairness…..
Cults – and personality cults are culturally prevalent in SE Asia and Thailand in particular. Historically there are “cults” of Buddha worship, Rama V worship, lingam worship, various mythical princess worships, Phibun and Sarit worship, Korean pop group worship, Thaksin worship and of course worship of the once mighty dollar.
All are cults in my opinion and the more altruistic (such as Buddhism) more worthy of veneration than others. I have not yet understood the deeper need to venerate in Thai society though I appreciate it is a universal human need that has been eagerly tapped into by power structures for several hundred years and probably much longer.
Is there a need for more interfaith dialogue in Malaysia? Part 1
More propagation on the understanding of freedom for each and every human to live a happy life as one deem fit and according to one’s faith would be more effective in combating religious intolerance or rather religious bigotry.
Interfaith dialogue only brings the different faith believers together for the purpose of implementing rules and laws to control the reactions and behaviours of the believers for maintaining the artificial and false peace in Malaysia. True peace will only come when Malaysians understand and believed that freedom of faith is the rights of each and every human beings on earth.
When the government and religious authority in Malaysia can believed and accept this freedom ,then true peace and harmony will be established. Interfaith dialogues are just like the peace talks between the Palestine and Israel , where both or one party cannot accept the other to live in peace.
Only when all knows the truth and are free would there be peace . For many are held captive by their pride and believe that they alone are superior and above others . That is the situation in Malaysia and only an understanding and believe that all man are free to follow and practice his/her faith would there be peace and prosperity.
Malaysia’s madness
Trying to create as many “common” enemies as posible, to muster the troops, no matter how bizarre. That’s the sign of desparation displayed by the BN govt.
My prediction – BN will survive another election and retain Federal power but lose more states to PR. This is on account of East Malaysia. BN will lose Federal in 2018 as East Malaysians finally kick out the current crop of “local” politicians. What BN will do in that scenario is anybody’s guess.
Malaysia’s madness
Singapore accused of supporting Bersih?
Singapore as in Lee family and friends?
Singapore as in ardent supporter of Myanmar?
Come on UMNO…you can do better than that!
Blaming villagers for global warming
This is an extremely complex problem. Traditional verse state rights, the right to an existence, and above all education. South of the border in Malaysia state reserve forest land is being cleared illegally with no enforcement. This is a major issue not only in Thailand but around the world.
How long will it be before the vast jungles of Equatorial Africa are cleared?
On the other hand when I hear middle class academics from Western countries who tell third world communities that they shouldnt clear these lands, I think how hippocritical this is because most land in developed countries was cleared over a century ago.
What are the answers to these problems? In 2012 we dont yet have a solution and are only just idnetifying the problem.
University rankings from Chula’s perspective
A man in the science area who’s just been stripped of his Ph.D. is still OK as head of NIA, a government science department?! Who’s attempted to de-fraud one of the country’s leading universities?! Who’s publicly known to be a plagiarist!
Even for people who already regard Thailand as a totally wacky and insubstantial country, that seems a stretch.
Review of Saying the Unsayable
Lokel Yokel – 11
I’m sort of thinking in the same direction, for 60 years the thais elite has made the king into something of a personality cult.
University rankings from Chula’s perspective
Latest from Thai Rath-
Pornchai Rujiprapha, Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Science & Technology and acting Chairman of NIA Board for 18 months now- (they can’t seem to find anyone gullible enough to fill the seat…) told Thai Rath (national daily) that the Chula result will not affect Supachai’s position at NIA as ‘he did not use his PhD degree as a qualification when applying for his position’. Srithanonchai.
It seems that despite the revocation of Supachai’s degree, Pornchai considers Supachai a fine and upstanding leader, ideally qualified to manage NIA’s substantial budget and its intellectual property programme. He also seems convinced that Supachai and NIA continue to enjoy public confidence, at home and abroad.
I want some of his pills…..
University rankings from Chula’s perspective
It is worrisome about the comment from NIA Chairman here
http://www.thairath.co.th/тАЛcontent/edu/270371
Chula has moved forward, is NIA Board moving backward?
Review of Saying the Unsayable
To Local Yokel,
You’re right : seek and ye shall find. Thanks to you for pointing that out, and cred to the author of the article you reference. (Yes, I read it too.)
I’m sorry, but, to ‘ordinary person’ (post # 9) – you just haven’t been paying attention, have you ?
Review of Saying the Unsayable
Here is another example about the “unsayable,” as part of the deal between Yingluck, and elements of the “ammart.”
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http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?newsid=1326712204&grpid=00&catid=&subcatid=