Ralph: Note the quote talks about number convicted, not charged. Over the last nine months we’ve had the high-profile convictions of Joe, Ah Kong, Surachai and Chiranuch. Over the nine months prior to that there were four less-publicized convictions. In 2010: two; 2009: three; 2008/2007: three.
All the defacement and graffiti was very new, courtesy of Khmer visitors and tourists.
The majority of prisoners at Tuol Sleng were KR affiliated themselves. That was the function of this particular facility, to cleanse the party and state apparatus. Prisoners were tortured to extract confessions that included long lists of other ‘traitors’ within the KR ranks, who would in turn end up in S21 dictating lists of their own. As many have previously noted, this makes the S21 photographs even more remarkable and their value harder to classify.
I’ve not been to Tuol Sleng for some years, but in 2007, the photo Fionn has used in this post was hanging in a separate exhibition of photos of KR leaders and cadres. Some of the people in these pictures were not famous, and as such their photos were still in one piece, albeit defaced. The highest ranking person whose picture had not been destroyed was Son Sen, although his face had been scratched out. (See second picture down in the link I gave previously)
It is nice to be fly on the wall with people with long experience debating.
For Burma ths is going to be the very question facing soon. Unfortunately there is no considered plan or even debate and open opinion either by the givernmentbwhich s expected, but by any opposition group which is also unfortunately expected as there are precious few intellectuals or technocrats there.
It is important as the Burmese rural population is around 70%. But more importantly we still have that equivalent of “Thai- ness”.
The problem with conventional wisdom of improved productivity is it loos only in monetary terms. There are important or even vital unmeasurables- social cohesiveness, low income discrepancy, low crime, low drug dependency, keeping traditional ways and custodian of culture, etc.
One has to acknowledge that the existing system has npbeen feeding the country for millennium. Unfortunately any current substitute with shining lights are going to follow Detroit in Detroit duration of time.
But the tide cannot be stopped. Yet at least in Burma it is most important to help the farmers in safe, effective, productive farming practices with financial and technical assistance so that part of the traditional culture is maintained in modern world just like in Japan.
I should think that’s the first time George Bush has been quoted on anything where the quoter wasn’t taking the mickey out of him, but still, are you quite serious? George Bush? Only in America could they elect Ronnie Raygun – twice, and follow that up with George W Bush – twice. I suppose that’s what they call the ole one-two huh?
As for the rest, well, I didn’t make any comment about Thai Rak Thai, but it is generally accepted that the death toll in the war on drugs has been considerably exaggerated. So I guess you are right – it was a crude body count.
Thaksin is certainly the devil, no doubt about it. Only fools would vote for him whereas only smart folk would vote for Abhisit and Suthep – right?
By the way, the correct quote is ‘Fooled me once, shame on you, fooled me twice – shame on me”, but since you’re probably American its easily understood. We can’t afford to upset the self-appointed ‘leaders of the free world’, so I won’t add that you manage to get most things wrong, which is why I can forgive you so readily – its sort of expected that you’ll get it wrong,
Which is why you get your asses kicked out of so many countries I expect.
To everyone who is so hung-up on “My land, my home” to the point of denying others who also call the same place their home,
In the following lin, you will learn that before you arrived to this land, it was someone else’s home. Just because you arrived there earlier than others who currently live doesn’t make it ONLY your home. In fact, you will learn that the ancient kingdom in Arakan was founded by the ancestors of current Bengalis (I am not saying that current Muslim Bengalis in Arakan are descended from those Bengali Buddhists inside Arakan; what most likely would have happened was that current Buddhist are descended from those Bengali Buddhist and then mixed with Tibeto-Burmans who arrived later. In another word, people in that region of Arakan are all related to each other whether they like it or not just as all the people in the four British ailes are related). Since “The Burmese do not seem to have settled in Arakan until possibly as late as the tenth century AD”, any anceint Buddhist structure found there were built during the reing of those Bengalis.
“Arakanese chronicles claim that the Kingdom was founded in the year 2666 BC.[28]
Wesali or Vaisali was founded by Hindu Chandra Dynasty. “The area known as North Arakan had been for many years before the 8th century the seat of Hindu dynasties. In 788 AD a new dynasty, known as the Chandras, founded the city of Wesali. This city became a noted trade port to which as many as a thousand ships came annually; the Chandra kings were upholders of Buddhism, … their territory extended as far north as Chittagong;—- Wesali was an easterly Hindu kingdom of Bengal — Both government and people were Indian.[29] So far as Arakan is concerned, the inscriptions show traces of two early dynasties holding sway in the north. The earlier one, a Candra dynasty, seems to have been founded in the middle of the fourth century A.D. Its capital was known by the Indian name of Vaisali and it maintained close connections with India. Thirteen kings of this dynasty are said to have reigned for a total period of 230 years. The second dynasty was founded in the eighth century by a ruler referred to as Sri Dharmavijaya, who was of pure Ksatriya descent. His grandson married a daughter of the Pyu king of Sri Ksetra.[30]
Hindu statues and inscriptions were found in Wesali. The ruins of old capital of Arakan – Wesali show Hindu statues and inscriptions of the 8th century AD. Although the Chandras usually held Buddhistic doctrines, there is reason to believe that Brahmanism and Buddhism flourished side by side in the capital.
“The Burmese do not seem to have settled in Arakan until possibly as late as the tenth century AD. Hence earlier dynasties are thought to have been Indian, ruling over a population similar to that of Bengal. All the capitals known to history have been in the north near modern Akyab”.[31]
“
So…. the the defacement of the photographs in the Tuol Sleng museum shown in your link was done by post-1979 visitors, both Khmer and foreigners, is that right?
In that case, it seems likely to me that this defacement would have then been done out of anger– i.e. that the photos in the link you provide would likely have been of the Tuol Sleng prison guards– not of its victims.
And then– the photo of the woman the top of the page here is in fact not an example of the de-humanization of victims by the Khmer Rouge.
Rather the photo could be an example of people, survivors, taking out their anger at their oppressors and executioners.
Fionn Travers-Smith: Can you confirm whether the woman in the photograph was a victim of Tuol Sleng, or a prison guard herself?
This is why we need to take photographs seriously–to try understand more exactly what is happening in them, and to be very careful in how the images are used.
Artur, #74: Dachai Uchukosolkarn looks so so confident doesn’t he? He was released on 200,000 bht bail and I think we’re in no doubt that the worst of this case is behind him now. How much bail did Erica Fry have to post? We know Chiranuch Premchaiporn had to front up 300,000 bht.
Jon@1: I half agree with you. The growing bit seems out of place today in 2012. The numbers being charged seem to have dropped precipitously when compared with the previous government. That said, the number charged under the previous government was certainly high when compared with any previous government, at least back to 1976-77. The data are clear on the latter.
Indeed, Roy. Initially it’s being blamed on food poisoning. A virulent form of food poisoning that causes massive vomiting, loss of blood and turns the toes and fingernails blue – doubtless, if the room had a balcony they would have both jumped off it. Also the police can’t decide whether the couple had been dead for 12 or 24 hours when they were found. Is any Thai police investigation worth more than a half-day old plate of somtam? Much closer than the unexplained deaths in Chiang Mai are two ‘similar’ deaths on Phi Phi itself just three years ago …
Bravo! [Reflection] in Walter Benjamin’s “The Origin of German Tragic Drama” the writer contrasted the Classical Hero in Greek tragedy who is silent in his suffering, in his tragic and unspeakable fate. Not able to speak, this hero become superior to the gods and thus transcends not just the deities but also history itself…
It doesn’t seem like you’ve actually read the Phnom Penh Post interview with the author per Susan’s link above. Why do you assume the author is “hypocritical” and “part of all that”? Other readers seem to disagree with you but that’s no reason for you to be offended.
The pictures of Pol Pot and other KR government members from this room’s exhibition had been completely destroyed by visitors. The whole site is marked by contemporary graffitti in Khmer, and not a small amount in English also; “NEVER LET THIS HAPPEN AGAIN!” and so on.
I interviewed S21 survivor Vann Nath in the facility itself in 2007. I asked both he and an employee of the Documentation Centre of Cambodia what they thought about this vandalism in what was now a museum, and they both answered that it was a good thing, showing that both Khmer and foreign visitors correctly understood the nature of the KR.
Unspeakable things in Thailand. Well, the truth for a start. The deaths on Phi Phi Island of tourists, the deaths in Chiangmai of tourists, all in mysterious circumstances, whilst staying in hotels, deserves to be mentioned here as the truth and cover ups in Chiangmai are still to be cleared up. The probable cause in Chiangmai was poinoning from industrial chemicals used to kill vermine. The tourist industry is a big earner and every suspicious death must be investigated.
Maybe I have got the wrong meaning of “Unspeakable things”. If I have I apologise.
Moe Aung: “The Burmese language as you know does not want in robustness or ribaldry where necessary and will rise up to the challenge , some examples of which you may have seen in a recent thread on elephant metaphors.”
That is probably it. Karen’s derive a lot of their culture from American protestant missionaries as do the Chins and there is probably low tolerance for ribaldry. (Would be interesting to study Rohingya culture in more detail. Once had a Rohingya as bestfriend and have many fond memories of Rohingya community in Mae Sot, very hospitable people, my friend’s second cousin was married to a Karen with two kids and there was even a Karen Muslim village near Mae Sot, he claimed).
When you mentioned “ribaldry” in Burmese language, I thought of Shakespeare and my favourite Gargantua_and_Pantagruel that are accepted classics but full of some pretty racy stuff. My question for you is whether you have encountered similar “ribaldry” in Burmese literature or folk lit? Jogging my memory but can’t recall anything but never read any pre-Konbaung lit. What about Burma’s “Shakespeare” U Pon Nya? Did he engage in ribaldry?
Ribaldry in modern Burmese lit always seems to be thoroughly clothed with moralizing, such as U Nu’s play Thaka Ala composed before the elections in 1962 with the communist teacher making amorous advances on his female student and the Interior Minister’s concubine whining for more attention (he found her in Yangon’s old redlight district of the 1950s near Bohtataung pagoda) and Thein Pe Myint’s The Modern Monk with the monk and nun dancing close together for which he had to apologize publicly though he did not condone it or actor’s U Kyaw Hein’s numerous romantic moments with honey bee pollinating flowers spliced in by Burmese censors to hide.
[Just saw Vaginagate this week in the US which has the religious dimension but no ethnic dimension. Throw in religious and ethnic differences and maybe you get racist stereotypes forming, hatred and potential for conflict.]
> “This series is also launched at a time when the number of people convicted of violations of Article 112 and the 2007 Computer Crimes Act is high and growing.”
It’s hard to parse any useful meaning from this sentence. Of course the number is growing. How high is ‘high’? What sort of number would not be ‘high’?
That spelling mistake presumably was accidental? It’s too close to the subject!
Whatever those authors’ personal convictions or their public pronouncements are not really relevant. Their action has been conciliatory and effect calming.
The Burmese posts on all sites have been typically virulent about just about everything for as long as there was access. Those “kill the kalars” are just the mild end. There is equal bile at websites between Aung San Suu Kyi worshippers and knockers as well.
They are good for quotes as in “bitch fights” but the realty is that there aren’t really people going around doing harm or indeed going at all. They simply sit at their computers. Or the rich ones, iPAD’s. People actively doing harm are not really sitting down to get instructions from the web loonies.
There was a recent post in Burmese about the Burmese habitually being in fight with anybody, everybody and all. But when someone come along and make a big deal out of it, the real problem can ensue. So please be careful to base these remarks for future incitement. The writers most likely would have moved on and would not remember why it was written by the time people start making a huge deal.
Again the Burmese language comments are rife with these for long time. It certainly does not make it right or desirable, but it also does not mean as dangerous as it sounds.
Please say “stop them” If you want which is good thing to do but don’t magnify them like all those journalists and academics. Please.
“Shame on Thaksin for not arranging to put Abhisit and Suthep in prison, and shoot the coup makers and murderers of Thai people.”??
…Please expose the logic behind your apparently emotional outburst.
By my crude body count the Thai Rak Thai score was 3000 to the Democrats 120. Both sets of mayhem dutifully carried out by the esteemed apparatus of the state, protector of the thai people. – and the parties not over yet…
– and by what legal process/political appointment exactly was/is the “self-exiled” man from Dubai expected to accomodate your wishes?
I’m sure he’ll sort it all out for you when he’s made Dr Police Major General Lord Protector or whatever. You’ll just have to be patient.
“There’s an old saying in Tennessee – I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee – that says, fool me once, shame on – shame on you. Fool me – you can’t get fooled again.” – George Bush
I want to ask Dave and Violent to elaborate on the following questions.
1) When did those moderation voices started. Did they exist long before? The reason I ask is, at least four examples you presented in this post appeared only in June 2012 when things got too bad. e.g. joint statement from a Yangon-based group of monks and a national Burmese Islamic organisation, was dated June 10. The facebook text, “Don’t get people dead because of your facebook account” is only a few days old. Similarly, the joint statement between buddhist and Muslim youth groups appeared in June, only after a threat letter appeared to attack mosques on June 15.
2) How many percentage of “moderation voices” exist? Are are a lot of people proactively telling people to stop the racist campaign? As far as I observe, people talking about peace can be counted, but anti-rohingyas people and posts are too many and it is impossible to count.
3) i want to know if, especially Violent Cho, support Rohingya publically?
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Launch of “Unspeakable Things”
Ralph: Note the quote talks about number convicted, not charged. Over the last nine months we’ve had the high-profile convictions of Joe, Ah Kong, Surachai and Chiranuch. Over the nine months prior to that there were four less-publicized convictions. In 2010: two; 2009: three; 2008/2007: three.
How the Khmer Rouge dehumanised their “enemies”
Keith,
All the defacement and graffiti was very new, courtesy of Khmer visitors and tourists.
The majority of prisoners at Tuol Sleng were KR affiliated themselves. That was the function of this particular facility, to cleanse the party and state apparatus. Prisoners were tortured to extract confessions that included long lists of other ‘traitors’ within the KR ranks, who would in turn end up in S21 dictating lists of their own. As many have previously noted, this makes the S21 photographs even more remarkable and their value harder to classify.
I’ve not been to Tuol Sleng for some years, but in 2007, the photo Fionn has used in this post was hanging in a separate exhibition of photos of KR leaders and cadres. Some of the people in these pictures were not famous, and as such their photos were still in one piece, albeit defaced. The highest ranking person whose picture had not been destroyed was Son Sen, although his face had been scratched out. (See second picture down in the link I gave previously)
Leaving the farm
It is nice to be fly on the wall with people with long experience debating.
For Burma ths is going to be the very question facing soon. Unfortunately there is no considered plan or even debate and open opinion either by the givernmentbwhich s expected, but by any opposition group which is also unfortunately expected as there are precious few intellectuals or technocrats there.
It is important as the Burmese rural population is around 70%. But more importantly we still have that equivalent of “Thai- ness”.
The problem with conventional wisdom of improved productivity is it loos only in monetary terms. There are important or even vital unmeasurables- social cohesiveness, low income discrepancy, low crime, low drug dependency, keeping traditional ways and custodian of culture, etc.
One has to acknowledge that the existing system has npbeen feeding the country for millennium. Unfortunately any current substitute with shining lights are going to follow Detroit in Detroit duration of time.
But the tide cannot be stopped. Yet at least in Burma it is most important to help the farmers in safe, effective, productive farming practices with financial and technical assistance so that part of the traditional culture is maintained in modern world just like in Japan.
Sadly, that is simply a dream.
Intolerance, Islam and the Internet in Burma
Arakan in Mughalistan?
If you look around this is only one of many put forward by people or organizations of their dream.
Please do not take this and such like to drum up antipathy because it is not really a well considered concerted plan.
It simply means that the other neighbour India is also not so comfortable with their erstwhile country men. That’s all.
Intolerance, Islam and the Internet in Burma
Ohn
must be joking to say “the Burmese army, cannot kill much” providing his theory.
Coup talk in Thailand 2012
@Milton Brick #24
I should think that’s the first time George Bush has been quoted on anything where the quoter wasn’t taking the mickey out of him, but still, are you quite serious? George Bush? Only in America could they elect Ronnie Raygun – twice, and follow that up with George W Bush – twice. I suppose that’s what they call the ole one-two huh?
As for the rest, well, I didn’t make any comment about Thai Rak Thai, but it is generally accepted that the death toll in the war on drugs has been considerably exaggerated. So I guess you are right – it was a crude body count.
Thaksin is certainly the devil, no doubt about it. Only fools would vote for him whereas only smart folk would vote for Abhisit and Suthep – right?
By the way, the correct quote is ‘Fooled me once, shame on you, fooled me twice – shame on me”, but since you’re probably American its easily understood. We can’t afford to upset the self-appointed ‘leaders of the free world’, so I won’t add that you manage to get most things wrong, which is why I can forgive you so readily – its sort of expected that you’ll get it wrong,
Which is why you get your asses kicked out of so many countries I expect.
Intolerance, Islam and the Internet in Burma
To everyone who is so hung-up on “My land, my home” to the point of denying others who also call the same place their home,
In the following lin, you will learn that before you arrived to this land, it was someone else’s home. Just because you arrived there earlier than others who currently live doesn’t make it ONLY your home. In fact, you will learn that the ancient kingdom in Arakan was founded by the ancestors of current Bengalis (I am not saying that current Muslim Bengalis in Arakan are descended from those Bengali Buddhists inside Arakan; what most likely would have happened was that current Buddhist are descended from those Bengali Buddhist and then mixed with Tibeto-Burmans who arrived later. In another word, people in that region of Arakan are all related to each other whether they like it or not just as all the people in the four British ailes are related). Since “The Burmese do not seem to have settled in Arakan until possibly as late as the tenth century AD”, any anceint Buddhist structure found there were built during the reing of those Bengalis.
Migration period of ancient Burma
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_period_of_ancient_Burma#Indian_and_Burmese_settlement_in_Arakan
“Arakanese chronicles claim that the Kingdom was founded in the year 2666 BC.[28]
Wesali or Vaisali was founded by Hindu Chandra Dynasty. “The area known as North Arakan had been for many years before the 8th century the seat of Hindu dynasties. In 788 AD a new dynasty, known as the Chandras, founded the city of Wesali. This city became a noted trade port to which as many as a thousand ships came annually; the Chandra kings were upholders of Buddhism, … their territory extended as far north as Chittagong;—- Wesali was an easterly Hindu kingdom of Bengal — Both government and people were Indian.[29] So far as Arakan is concerned, the inscriptions show traces of two early dynasties holding sway in the north. The earlier one, a Candra dynasty, seems to have been founded in the middle of the fourth century A.D. Its capital was known by the Indian name of Vaisali and it maintained close connections with India. Thirteen kings of this dynasty are said to have reigned for a total period of 230 years. The second dynasty was founded in the eighth century by a ruler referred to as Sri Dharmavijaya, who was of pure Ksatriya descent. His grandson married a daughter of the Pyu king of Sri Ksetra.[30]
Hindu statues and inscriptions were found in Wesali. The ruins of old capital of Arakan – Wesali show Hindu statues and inscriptions of the 8th century AD. Although the Chandras usually held Buddhistic doctrines, there is reason to believe that Brahmanism and Buddhism flourished side by side in the capital.
“The Burmese do not seem to have settled in Arakan until possibly as late as the tenth century AD. Hence earlier dynasties are thought to have been Indian, ruling over a population similar to that of Bengal. All the capitals known to history have been in the north near modern Akyab”.[31]
“
How the Khmer Rouge dehumanised their “enemies”
Non-tok:
So…. the the defacement of the photographs in the Tuol Sleng museum shown in your link was done by post-1979 visitors, both Khmer and foreigners, is that right?
In that case, it seems likely to me that this defacement would have then been done out of anger– i.e. that the photos in the link you provide would likely have been of the Tuol Sleng prison guards– not of its victims.
And then– the photo of the woman the top of the page here is in fact not an example of the de-humanization of victims by the Khmer Rouge.
Rather the photo could be an example of people, survivors, taking out their anger at their oppressors and executioners.
Fionn Travers-Smith: Can you confirm whether the woman in the photograph was a victim of Tuol Sleng, or a prison guard herself?
This is why we need to take photographs seriously–to try understand more exactly what is happening in them, and to be very careful in how the images are used.
University rankings from Chula’s perspective
Artur, #74: Dachai Uchukosolkarn looks so so confident doesn’t he? He was released on 200,000 bht bail and I think we’re in no doubt that the worst of this case is behind him now. How much bail did Erica Fry have to post? We know Chiranuch Premchaiporn had to front up 300,000 bht.
Is Dachai a Chula grad? I found this but I can’t figure out who is saying what:
http://www.manager.co.th/daily/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9550000023375
Launch of “Unspeakable Things”
Jon@1: I half agree with you. The growing bit seems out of place today in 2012. The numbers being charged seem to have dropped precipitously when compared with the previous government. That said, the number charged under the previous government was certainly high when compared with any previous government, at least back to 1976-77. The data are clear on the latter.
Launch of “Unspeakable Things”
Indeed, Roy. Initially it’s being blamed on food poisoning. A virulent form of food poisoning that causes massive vomiting, loss of blood and turns the toes and fingernails blue – doubtless, if the room had a balcony they would have both jumped off it. Also the police can’t decide whether the couple had been dead for 12 or 24 hours when they were found. Is any Thai police investigation worth more than a half-day old plate of somtam? Much closer than the unexplained deaths in Chiang Mai are two ‘similar’ deaths on Phi Phi itself just three years ago …
Launch of “Unspeakable Things”
Bravo! [Reflection] in Walter Benjamin’s “The Origin of German Tragic Drama” the writer contrasted the Classical Hero in Greek tragedy who is silent in his suffering, in his tragic and unspeakable fate. Not able to speak, this hero become superior to the gods and thus transcends not just the deities but also history itself…
Noir nights in Phnom Penh
re: Donovan Eiry
It doesn’t seem like you’ve actually read the Phnom Penh Post interview with the author per Susan’s link above. Why do you assume the author is “hypocritical” and “part of all that”? Other readers seem to disagree with you but that’s no reason for you to be offended.
How the Khmer Rouge dehumanised their “enemies”
I like this photograph too. It is indeed from Tuol Sleng, here is a link to the others in the display, all of them defaced:
http://siamesegothic.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/defaced-exhibits-in-tuol-sleng-museum-of-genocide/
The pictures of Pol Pot and other KR government members from this room’s exhibition had been completely destroyed by visitors. The whole site is marked by contemporary graffitti in Khmer, and not a small amount in English also; “NEVER LET THIS HAPPEN AGAIN!” and so on.
I interviewed S21 survivor Vann Nath in the facility itself in 2007. I asked both he and an employee of the Documentation Centre of Cambodia what they thought about this vandalism in what was now a museum, and they both answered that it was a good thing, showing that both Khmer and foreign visitors correctly understood the nature of the KR.
Launch of “Unspeakable Things”
Unspeakable things in Thailand. Well, the truth for a start. The deaths on Phi Phi Island of tourists, the deaths in Chiangmai of tourists, all in mysterious circumstances, whilst staying in hotels, deserves to be mentioned here as the truth and cover ups in Chiangmai are still to be cleared up. The probable cause in Chiangmai was poinoning from industrial chemicals used to kill vermine. The tourist industry is a big earner and every suspicious death must be investigated.
Maybe I have got the wrong meaning of “Unspeakable things”. If I have I apologise.
Voices of moderation on Burmese Facebook
Moe Aung: “The Burmese language as you know does not want in robustness or ribaldry where necessary and will rise up to the challenge , some examples of which you may have seen in a recent thread on elephant metaphors.”
That is probably it. Karen’s derive a lot of their culture from American protestant missionaries as do the Chins and there is probably low tolerance for ribaldry. (Would be interesting to study Rohingya culture in more detail. Once had a Rohingya as bestfriend and have many fond memories of Rohingya community in Mae Sot, very hospitable people, my friend’s second cousin was married to a Karen with two kids and there was even a Karen Muslim village near Mae Sot, he claimed).
When you mentioned “ribaldry” in Burmese language, I thought of Shakespeare and my favourite Gargantua_and_Pantagruel that are accepted classics but full of some pretty racy stuff. My question for you is whether you have encountered similar “ribaldry” in Burmese literature or folk lit? Jogging my memory but can’t recall anything but never read any pre-Konbaung lit. What about Burma’s “Shakespeare” U Pon Nya? Did he engage in ribaldry?
Ribaldry in modern Burmese lit always seems to be thoroughly clothed with moralizing, such as U Nu’s play Thaka Ala composed before the elections in 1962 with the communist teacher making amorous advances on his female student and the Interior Minister’s concubine whining for more attention (he found her in Yangon’s old redlight district of the 1950s near Bohtataung pagoda) and Thein Pe Myint’s The Modern Monk with the monk and nun dancing close together for which he had to apologize publicly though he did not condone it or actor’s U Kyaw Hein’s numerous romantic moments with honey bee pollinating flowers spliced in by Burmese censors to hide.
[Just saw Vaginagate this week in the US which has the religious dimension but no ethnic dimension. Throw in religious and ethnic differences and maybe you get racist stereotypes forming, hatred and potential for conflict.]
Launch of “Unspeakable Things”
> “This series is also launched at a time when the number of people convicted of violations of Article 112 and the 2007 Computer Crimes Act is high and growing.”
It’s hard to parse any useful meaning from this sentence. Of course the number is growing. How high is ‘high’? What sort of number would not be ‘high’?
Voices of moderation on Burmese Facebook
Kyaw Naing Win,
That spelling mistake presumably was accidental? It’s too close to the subject!
Whatever those authors’ personal convictions or their public pronouncements are not really relevant. Their action has been conciliatory and effect calming.
The Burmese posts on all sites have been typically virulent about just about everything for as long as there was access. Those “kill the kalars” are just the mild end. There is equal bile at websites between Aung San Suu Kyi worshippers and knockers as well.
They are good for quotes as in “bitch fights” but the realty is that there aren’t really people going around doing harm or indeed going at all. They simply sit at their computers. Or the rich ones, iPAD’s. People actively doing harm are not really sitting down to get instructions from the web loonies.
There was a recent post in Burmese about the Burmese habitually being in fight with anybody, everybody and all. But when someone come along and make a big deal out of it, the real problem can ensue. So please be careful to base these remarks for future incitement. The writers most likely would have moved on and would not remember why it was written by the time people start making a huge deal.
Again the Burmese language comments are rife with these for long time. It certainly does not make it right or desirable, but it also does not mean as dangerous as it sounds.
Please say “stop them” If you want which is good thing to do but don’t magnify them like all those journalists and academics. Please.
Coup talk in Thailand 2012
Postman // Jun 16, 2012 at 7:48 pm
@Postman#23
“Shame on Thaksin for not arranging to put Abhisit and Suthep in prison, and shoot the coup makers and murderers of Thai people.”??
…Please expose the logic behind your apparently emotional outburst.
By my crude body count the Thai Rak Thai score was 3000 to the Democrats 120. Both sets of mayhem dutifully carried out by the esteemed apparatus of the state, protector of the thai people. – and the parties not over yet…
– and by what legal process/political appointment exactly was/is the “self-exiled” man from Dubai expected to accomodate your wishes?
I’m sure he’ll sort it all out for you when he’s made Dr Police Major General Lord Protector or whatever. You’ll just have to be patient.
“There’s an old saying in Tennessee – I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee – that says, fool me once, shame on – shame on you. Fool me – you can’t get fooled again.” – George Bush
Voices of moderation on Burmese Facebook
I want to ask Dave and Violent to elaborate on the following questions.
1) When did those moderation voices started. Did they exist long before? The reason I ask is, at least four examples you presented in this post appeared only in June 2012 when things got too bad. e.g. joint statement from a Yangon-based group of monks and a national Burmese Islamic organisation, was dated June 10. The facebook text, “Don’t get people dead because of your facebook account” is only a few days old. Similarly, the joint statement between buddhist and Muslim youth groups appeared in June, only after a threat letter appeared to attack mosques on June 15.
2) How many percentage of “moderation voices” exist? Are are a lot of people proactively telling people to stop the racist campaign? As far as I observe, people talking about peace can be counted, but anti-rohingyas people and posts are too many and it is impossible to count.
3) i want to know if, especially Violent Cho, support Rohingya publically?