I cant help being cynical about his speech, it could easily be interpreted as a pretense so Thaksin can continue using him and Jatuporn as levers to influence the grass-root reds to his advantage and simultaneously maintaining a plausible distance from them as he is now in his car going up the mountain and is no longer in the same boat.
It appears Michael Herzfeld himself has been doing some of the PR/marketing chores on behalf of the Thai royalists, arranging recently a cozy dinner for Princess Sirindhorn and some of the top Harvard faculty involved in Asia studies. I wonder if he or anyone else asked her about the Privy Council and her own role as its Chair, as well as her mother’s role, in the violent crackdown in the Spring of 2010. Imagine waltzing Assad or Mubarak or Gaddafi into a cozy Harvard dinner after a crackdown which involved Army snipers on rooftops shooting hundreds of unarmed civilians.
The Asia edition of The Wall Street Journal has an interesting op-ed on Mr. Anwar Ibrahim questioning his stance on his strategies of civil disobedience:
While Mr. Najib deserves credit for his reforms, the opposition also has good reasons to criticize them as inadequate. The real question is whether Malaysian society is best served by a faster pace of change and the opposition’s confrontational tactics. If Mr. Anwar wants to practice civil disobedience, he can’t pretend to be innocent at the same time.
This will be a very interesting court case to observe in terms of how it is used as a political strategy by all the main actors.
Interesting overview. However, the idea that power-sharing is an idea that cannot be entirely ruled out seems more like us not ruling it out for hope that ASSK gains power. Aside from that glimmer of hope we have, why can’t it be ruled out?
Sorry for the previous overcooked criticism/abuse – I had previously been reading the seemingly inescapable narrative about Craig Thomson and became alarmed that New Mandala may be lurching down the same path of journalistic abomination –which this article is, of course, not.
One perhaps more constructive thing I can say though is that it’s important for human trafficking and the sex trade to remain ‘trendy causes’ to raise people’s ire. Would the tragedy of these issues be less in the public domain if Somaly had not lied? I’m not sure because I’m not sure if the celebrities’ support of her stemmed from reasons cooked by her lies. So yes it’s important to know that lies are often part of the mix with Somaly, but it’s also important to remember that she is a victim of the sex trade, and that perhaps these lies, and allegations of abuse against other women suggest she continues to be a victim of it in a messy vicious cycle.
The trauma inflicted upon victims of human trafficking and the sex trade will continue to manifest itself throughout their lives, and the burden of expectation about running a shining-light NGO that’s meant to help ease such trauma is perhaps too much responsibility for a victim clearly in the midst of her own personal psychological battles to bear. The expectation of the previous commentators, who are presumably not victims of such trauma, suggests to me a very hard-line approach is being taken with her which under appreciates the insanity of her situation. Despite the lies, it is admirable that she tried and tries.
Well there’s the Christian group that locked up several dozen bar girls on a boat while they were preached to. The Australian sex predator that solicited donations to buy food to distribute down at the rubbbish dump. The Australian group rescuing girls up in Chiang Rai. Too many of these groups trading on sob stories overstep the line – the founder of the Saigon Children Charity should have deserved some closer attention – he got an MBE so it could have made a nice payday for the likes of Andrew Drummond.
Naive foreigners go to Cambodia just determined to find suffering – and there are large numbers hanging around who will gladly facilitate their quest. Then there are those who don’t even step foot outside their closeted communities in the West who will sign over much larger sums.
Oh Sabai sabai: Nicholas Krisroff isn’t a celebrity as such – he’s been writing over-the-top, factually and ethically suspect exposes on the sex scene in Cambodia for ten years now. And did Jolie drop Cambodia like a hot potato? has she even been back to the place?
Orinoco Woof Woof Blanco, re your question to Andrew Spooner – I don’t think your query has much relevance to his provocative questions.
#29, no we shouldn’t forget others that play the compromise game – however, Pavin and Sunai hardly have the same gravitas as Thaksin. Thus they are perhaps excluded on the basis that they are relatively minor pots to the enormous Thaksin kettle, as opposed to letting them off the hook. To document all playing into the vicious cycle churned by the Amaat, it would require several 10,000 word volumes at the least 😉
And may I add that contrary to Spooner’s “complex and more nuanced” nonsense, the Thaksin approach remains ‘straight-forward, direct and tangible’: BUY THEM OFF.
The formula always works. Thaksin dispenses with his payoff, including the most recent ‘reconciliation cheques dispensation’ with the caveat ‘shut up from now on’. And while Thaksin/Yingluck pay and buy off everyone, analysts/liberals write ‘far more complex and nuanced’ balderdash a-la Spooner for good effect.
Just because the ore is of low thorium and uranium content is not a measure of safety. Rare earth processing is a very polluting operation with toxic fumes, corrosive acids and so on.
Lynas only managed to get this far because it is Malaysia. It would have to satisfy much more stringent and extensive emvironmental, occupational health and safety requirements.
I should add that the Sirindhorn connection is interesting. She’s been hawked around various universities as the benign face of the monarchy. I understand that she was recently at Harvard.
She is a determined purveyor of monarchism. She deserves more critical attention, not least as she chairs the meetings of the privy council.
Non Believer 3
“So its official, its not a monarchy but a theocracy run by a modern Jesus.”
WRONG!!!
If you read the text it states unambiguously that it’s a theocracy run by an avatar of the ancient hindu God Vishnu.
Why can’t you people detach your judao-christian prejudice and frame of reference even when employing sarcasm?
I disagree however that it’s “universally known.” I found this out about 10 years ago. I haven’t yet told my parents about it and my pre-school son is as yet unaware. I also rather doubt “all thai people” as a statistical improbability. These exaggerations would tend to cast doubt on the veracity of the rest of the proceedings. Still we are all entitled to our beliefs, are we not?
That said would the nations large muslim community accede to the concept?
” I have never believed he was one [hireling]. I take him at his word and at his deeds.
Thank you for answering the question Tom.
#29 Andrew Spooner
“What about these Thai liberal’s endless and repeat compromises with the army and the elites? Most of them are drawn from the same social background as the elites anyhow, and stand as much to lose as anyone from a proper process of Thai democratisation.”
And where exactly are you ‘drawn’ from Khun Andrew?
Frank G. Anderson – re :
“Thai criminal law allows for global jurisdiction over speech and behavior of anyone for any reason deemed to be insulting, embarrassing or defamatory to Thai, Thailand, or Thai institutions.” Why don’t we in the West, have reciprocal laws against this ?
Somaly’s stories change all the time.
First her daughter was abducted by traffickers, but saved.
Then she was abducted and sold to a brothel. The latest version by Nicholas Krisroff, the white crusader of the NYT is that she was sold to a brothel and filmed with customers and the videos sold on the Internet….
Many of Somaly’s other stories change. Her lie at the recent UN trafficking High Level Meeting that 8 girls were murdered by police in a raid on her centre has been proven false by the UN Human Rights Office in Ca,Nokia and her usual allies at the US Embassy have also said it is false.
AFESIP Cemtres in Cambodia routinely detain sex workers illegally and Somaly says she does this to give them time to think about whether they want to stay. Sex worker organisations in Cambodia have been documenting abuses committed by AFESIP for years.
It’s interesting that only Thaksin is being called out on his “compromise”.
Let’s not forget the likes of Pavin Chachavalpongpun sucking up to the Democrat Party and Abhisit in 2009, after the protests that year had been ruthlessly crushed by 10,000 troops.
Let’s not forget the likes of HRW’s Sunai Phasuk stating in the wikileaks Thai cables that he was a committed “anti-Thaksin activist” and supported the coup and the army.
Let’s not forget the supine response of these same Thai liberals to the recent and incredibly anti-democratic disqualification of Jaturporn as an MP.
What about these Thai liberal’s endless and repeat compromises with the army and the elites? Most of them are drawn from the same social background as the elites anyhow, and stand as much to lose as anyone from a proper process of Thai democratisation. Would Sunai Phasuk still have his job if he lived in a democracy? Not a chance. Would Pavin still be considered a credible progressive voice after sucking up to Abhisit after he’d used the army to crush a protest calling for democracy? No way.
These Thai liberals have a stake in the culture of impunity as much as anyone and their compromises need to be as questioned as Thaksin’s.
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Why the compromise game?
@15 Tom Hoy
I cant help being cynical about his speech, it could easily be interpreted as a pretense so Thaksin can continue using him and Jatuporn as levers to influence the grass-root reds to his advantage and simultaneously maintaining a plausible distance from them as he is now in his car going up the mountain and is no longer in the same boat.
Why the compromise game?
Orinoco
I’ve written about my background before – you can find it online if you search hard enough. If it’s so important to you, you will find it.
NLD MPs at the ANU
Thanks Justin,
A video of the event is available here.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
Why the compromise game?
Here is Sombat in an English version:
http://nationmultimedia.com/politics/Red-leader-takes-dig-at-egotistic-Thaksin-30182804.html
Problem is, who is Sombat?
Thai Studies at Harvard
re: Ralph comment #11
It appears Michael Herzfeld himself has been doing some of the PR/marketing chores on behalf of the Thai royalists, arranging recently a cozy dinner for Princess Sirindhorn and some of the top Harvard faculty involved in Asia studies. I wonder if he or anyone else asked her about the Privy Council and her own role as its Chair, as well as her mother’s role, in the violent crackdown in the Spring of 2010. Imagine waltzing Assad or Mubarak or Gaddafi into a cozy Harvard dinner after a crackdown which involved Army snipers on rooftops shooting hundreds of unarmed civilians.
Government of Malaysia vs people of Malaysia
The Asia edition of The Wall Street Journal has an interesting op-ed on Mr. Anwar Ibrahim questioning his stance on his strategies of civil disobedience:
This will be a very interesting court case to observe in terms of how it is used as a political strategy by all the main actors.
Counting on the National League for Democracy
Interesting overview. However, the idea that power-sharing is an idea that cannot be entirely ruled out seems more like us not ruling it out for hope that ASSK gains power. Aside from that glimmer of hope we have, why can’t it be ruled out?
What’s the truth behind Somaly Mam?
Sorry for the previous overcooked criticism/abuse – I had previously been reading the seemingly inescapable narrative about Craig Thomson and became alarmed that New Mandala may be lurching down the same path of journalistic abomination –which this article is, of course, not.
One perhaps more constructive thing I can say though is that it’s important for human trafficking and the sex trade to remain ‘trendy causes’ to raise people’s ire. Would the tragedy of these issues be less in the public domain if Somaly had not lied? I’m not sure because I’m not sure if the celebrities’ support of her stemmed from reasons cooked by her lies. So yes it’s important to know that lies are often part of the mix with Somaly, but it’s also important to remember that she is a victim of the sex trade, and that perhaps these lies, and allegations of abuse against other women suggest she continues to be a victim of it in a messy vicious cycle.
The trauma inflicted upon victims of human trafficking and the sex trade will continue to manifest itself throughout their lives, and the burden of expectation about running a shining-light NGO that’s meant to help ease such trauma is perhaps too much responsibility for a victim clearly in the midst of her own personal psychological battles to bear. The expectation of the previous commentators, who are presumably not victims of such trauma, suggests to me a very hard-line approach is being taken with her which under appreciates the insanity of her situation. Despite the lies, it is admirable that she tried and tries.
Thanks for highlighting it, Geoff.
What’s the truth behind Somaly Mam?
Well there’s the Christian group that locked up several dozen bar girls on a boat while they were preached to. The Australian sex predator that solicited donations to buy food to distribute down at the rubbbish dump. The Australian group rescuing girls up in Chiang Rai. Too many of these groups trading on sob stories overstep the line – the founder of the Saigon Children Charity should have deserved some closer attention – he got an MBE so it could have made a nice payday for the likes of Andrew Drummond.
Naive foreigners go to Cambodia just determined to find suffering – and there are large numbers hanging around who will gladly facilitate their quest. Then there are those who don’t even step foot outside their closeted communities in the West who will sign over much larger sums.
Oh Sabai sabai: Nicholas Krisroff isn’t a celebrity as such – he’s been writing over-the-top, factually and ethically suspect exposes on the sex scene in Cambodia for ten years now. And did Jolie drop Cambodia like a hot potato? has she even been back to the place?
Why the compromise game?
Orinoco Woof Woof Blanco, re your question to Andrew Spooner – I don’t think your query has much relevance to his provocative questions.
#29, no we shouldn’t forget others that play the compromise game – however, Pavin and Sunai hardly have the same gravitas as Thaksin. Thus they are perhaps excluded on the basis that they are relatively minor pots to the enormous Thaksin kettle, as opposed to letting them off the hook. To document all playing into the vicious cycle churned by the Amaat, it would require several 10,000 word volumes at the least 😉
Why the compromise game?
And may I add that contrary to Spooner’s “complex and more nuanced” nonsense, the Thaksin approach remains ‘straight-forward, direct and tangible’: BUY THEM OFF.
The formula always works. Thaksin dispenses with his payoff, including the most recent ‘reconciliation cheques dispensation’ with the caveat ‘shut up from now on’. And while Thaksin/Yingluck pay and buy off everyone, analysts/liberals write ‘far more complex and nuanced’ balderdash a-la Spooner for good effect.
Lynas Corporation for dummies (and Australians)
Just because the ore is of low thorium and uranium content is not a measure of safety. Rare earth processing is a very polluting operation with toxic fumes, corrosive acids and so on.
Lynas only managed to get this far because it is Malaysia. It would have to satisfy much more stringent and extensive emvironmental, occupational health and safety requirements.
Thai Studies at Harvard
I should add that the Sirindhorn connection is interesting. She’s been hawked around various universities as the benign face of the monarchy. I understand that she was recently at Harvard.
She is a determined purveyor of monarchism. She deserves more critical attention, not least as she chairs the meetings of the privy council.
Why the compromise game?
Andrew Spooner is partly right. There are plenty of compromising people about. At the same time, the current compromises being made by the Puea Thai Party, Thaksin and Yingluck are very high profile and startling. Look at this one: https://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2012/05/24/yinglucks-20-million-baht-polishing-cloth/
That surely ranks pretty high on the compromise scale.
Talk on royal cremation ceremony
Non Believer 3
“So its official, its not a monarchy but a theocracy run by a modern Jesus.”
WRONG!!!
If you read the text it states unambiguously that it’s a theocracy run by an avatar of the ancient hindu God Vishnu.
Why can’t you people detach your judao-christian prejudice and frame of reference even when employing sarcasm?
I disagree however that it’s “universally known.” I found this out about 10 years ago. I haven’t yet told my parents about it and my pre-school son is as yet unaware. I also rather doubt “all thai people” as a statistical improbability. These exaggerations would tend to cast doubt on the veracity of the rest of the proceedings. Still we are all entitled to our beliefs, are we not?
That said would the nations large muslim community accede to the concept?
Why the compromise game?
# 27 Tom Hoy
” I have never believed he was one [hireling]. I take him at his word and at his deeds.
Thank you for answering the question Tom.
#29 Andrew Spooner
“What about these Thai liberal’s endless and repeat compromises with the army and the elites? Most of them are drawn from the same social background as the elites anyhow, and stand as much to lose as anyone from a proper process of Thai democratisation.”
And where exactly are you ‘drawn’ from Khun Andrew?
Lese majeste response from UK government
Frank G. Anderson – re :
“Thai criminal law allows for global jurisdiction over speech and behavior of anyone for any reason deemed to be insulting, embarrassing or defamatory to Thai, Thailand, or Thai institutions.” Why don’t we in the West, have reciprocal laws against this ?
What’s the truth behind Somaly Mam?
Somaly’s stories change all the time.
First her daughter was abducted by traffickers, but saved.
Then she was abducted and sold to a brothel. The latest version by Nicholas Krisroff, the white crusader of the NYT is that she was sold to a brothel and filmed with customers and the videos sold on the Internet….
Many of Somaly’s other stories change. Her lie at the recent UN trafficking High Level Meeting that 8 girls were murdered by police in a raid on her centre has been proven false by the UN Human Rights Office in Ca,Nokia and her usual allies at the US Embassy have also said it is false.
AFESIP Cemtres in Cambodia routinely detain sex workers illegally and Somaly says she does this to give them time to think about whether they want to stay. Sex worker organisations in Cambodia have been documenting abuses committed by AFESIP for years.
AFP just released this piece a few days ago.
http://www.france24.com/en/20120522-controversial-activist-fights-seasian-sex-trade
Andrew Hunter
Asia Pacific Network of Sex Workers
Torture
Dungeons?
http://www.newmandala.org/2012/05/25/whats-the-truth-behind-somaly-mam/
Truth will out.
Bee
Why the compromise game?
Why the compromise game?
It’s interesting that only Thaksin is being called out on his “compromise”.
Let’s not forget the likes of Pavin Chachavalpongpun sucking up to the Democrat Party and Abhisit in 2009, after the protests that year had been ruthlessly crushed by 10,000 troops.
Let’s not forget the likes of HRW’s Sunai Phasuk stating in the wikileaks Thai cables that he was a committed “anti-Thaksin activist” and supported the coup and the army.
Let’s not forget the supine response of these same Thai liberals to the recent and incredibly anti-democratic disqualification of Jaturporn as an MP.
What about these Thai liberal’s endless and repeat compromises with the army and the elites? Most of them are drawn from the same social background as the elites anyhow, and stand as much to lose as anyone from a proper process of Thai democratisation. Would Sunai Phasuk still have his job if he lived in a democracy? Not a chance. Would Pavin still be considered a credible progressive voice after sucking up to Abhisit after he’d used the army to crush a protest calling for democracy? No way.
These Thai liberals have a stake in the culture of impunity as much as anyone and their compromises need to be as questioned as Thaksin’s.