My inquiry to Kerry McCarthy, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs, UK, re. the Ah Kong case was answered by her today. Here is her reply:
Dear Mr Anderson
Thank you very much for taking the trouble to email me. I am grateful for your comments, and would like to wish you a happy birthday for last week.
We can sometimes be reliant on reports from organisations like Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, so it is very useful to have additionally your insight from inside Thailand and I have also been in touch with a British expat about Ampon Tangnoppakul and lese majeste.
Needless to say, his arrest, imprisonment and death were deeply disturbing and saddening but Ah Kong’s treatment has raised international awareness of the implications of lese majeste, the limits of freedom of expression in Thailand and weaknesses in the judicial process, as well as concerns about the treatment of prisoners. Of course, we cannot simply base our judgement on the reports of the Thai authorities, and my questions were addressed to the Secretary of State for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in the UK. As is the usual practice, they were answered by the Minister with specific responsibility for Thailand and human rights, and I have included below the links to his answers for your information.
I will certainly continue to press the Foreign Office to ensure that human rights, in Thailand and elsewhere, are high on the international agenda, and thank you again for the information you provided.
Best wishes
Kerry McCarthy
Labour MP for Bristol East
Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs
FGA note: The replies, are, of course, the same links as earlier provided on these pages.
Let us suppose Harvard does go ahead and accepts Thai royalist funding for its new Thai Studies Dept and Endowed Chair, then let us imagine the Paul Handley’s “The King Never Smiles” (Yale University Press), one of the key books in tracing the reign of the present king, (or should I say, following the lead of Thai royalists, the present re-incarnation of the Hindu God Vishnu), is included in the curriculum of the courses and in the Institute’s library collection.
Now let us peer over the shoulder of a young Harvard undergraduate as he reads “The King Never Smiles” book and then practices his newly acquired Thai language skills by translating a section of the book, which he then submits as part of his coursework and also, for fun and to show off to his friends, posts it on his blog.
During his summer break, the student travels to Thailand for some kind of internship and to improve his Thai language skills. To his surprise and shock, on his arrival at Suvarnabhumi Airport, he is taken aside, arrested, charged with Lese Majeste, shackled into leg irons and thrown in a 15 person Thai prison cell with a hole in the corner for a toilet.
The Thai court refuses to grant the student any bail as he is an obvious flight risk being enrolled as a student in the U.S. without any family or roots in Thailand. His trial goes on and on until after some months, he is found guilty and sentenced to 5 years hard time in a Thai prison. Each time he is brought to and from the Thai court, his legs are shackled in leg irons in order to humiliate and degrade him.
Impossible? A fantasy? A playful nightmare that could never happen?
Well, as many of you know, at this very moment, a U.S. citizen named Joe Gordon sits rotting in a multi-person Thai prison cell, shackled in leg irons for his court appearances, having been arrested while visiting Thailand, denied any bail, tried and convicted of translating some sections of the very same “The King Never Smiles” book and posting those sections on a blog while he was resident in his home in Colorado.
So if Harvard wishes to get in bed with the Thai royalists, the Thai royal family and the ubiquitous and criminally-enforced Cult of Personality constructed around the Thai King, that’s the bed they’re getting into and the unforeseen consequences will be their reward.
It is the Eve of the First Anniversary of the arrest of Joe Gordon, I am saddened that my fellow Coloradan remains incarcerated in a foreign country, ingnored by our State Department and Embassy.
Shame on You Civil Servants and Elected officials for failing to protect the rights of American Citizens.
Shame on you for not repeatedly publicly condeming the Royal Thai Goverment Authorities for violating Human Rights.
Shame on you for not urging sanctions against the Royal Thai Goverment.
Tomorrow, Joe begins his second year incarcerated in Thailand’s prisons.
Thailand: Stop this insanity. Send Joe Home Now!!!
Thailand has trod on the US constitution with impunity several times, and not only with Joe Gordon and Thais who call in to US TV talk shows. There will be a day of reckoning, but not with any State Department assistance of that you can be certain.
Thai criminal law allows for global jurisdiction over speech and behavior of anyone for any reason deemed to be insulting, embarrassing or defamatory to Thai, Thailand, or Thai institutions. Not just LM. Criminal cases can be filed anytime and when the fly hits the spider’s web, hasta la vista baby!
There are legions of zealous witch-at-the-stake void-of-decency individuals in Thailand and abroad willing and able to crush what remaining decency exists here and there. All for the sake of their beliefs, all at the expense of yours. Democracy?
Thanks for the info. My question was based on a quote of Natthawut Saikuea in Matichon. This direct quote sounded as if Thaksin had said that it was his last phone-in, prompting Natthawut to add that this fact would not change the love the red shirts had for Thaksin (also quoting from memory). Since this sounded quite strong to me, I have been trying to get some independent confirmation about what Thaksin actually said (if possible in Thai).
One interesting thing to emerge from the rally was that Robert Amsterdam’s message was all about the necessity of finding justice and truth as a precondition for reconciliation. His tune was radically different to Thaksin’s. In fact, I don’t recall him even mentioning Thaksin by name
If ever Amsterdam was simply the paid hireling of Thaksin, which so many have accused him of, he is certainly not that now.
Actually, if you read the piece and the responses you would realise that the UK’s statement is in step with the Universal Periodic Review at the United Nations Human Rights Council which involved several countries, not all Western, signing up to a statement calling for LM to be reformed.
Sure, you can claim the UN is nothing more than a talking shop, but to claim that the UK’s statement was made in isolation in some sub-room of the UK parliament is factually incorrect.
Your equivalence with the UK’s ongoing hacking scandal also doesn’t stand up either.
The UK has started the Leveson inquiry, there have been dozens of arrests and the entire issue gets massive coverage in the UK media on a daily basis.
Thailand doesn’t even come close to having such debate on lese majeste a law, I should remind you, that Thailand claims LM has universal and global jurisdiction. Hence Joe Gordon being imprisoned for comments he made in the US.
That, in effect, internationalises the reach of LM and so allows for an internationalisation of response to it.
And that’s before we get onto the breaches of international human rights agreements…
Thaksin did make that comment about the boat and the mountain. But he also spent quite some time saying how he is a grateful person and won’t forget his debt to those who helped on the boat front.
Plus he specifically mentioned he would call on the Red Shirts for help again if democracy was ever threatened — which I take to be his all-purpose backup for if the current pact goes south or “things change”.
These were some of his less contradictory messages from a speech in which he claimed people could forget the past and also learn from the past; that Red Shirts ought to hand themselves in to justice and simultaneously that some highly-learned people in the justice system have no ability to think; and much more.
Regarding the “last speech” point, from memory he said he hoped this would be the last speech he would make from overseas. Not that he was sure — and certainly not that he wouldn’t be talking to the Reds any more, if that’s what you were thinking.
Help please — in the paragraphs “The Ammat network” there is a reference to “another article” providing a weblink that my system can not make work. Can New Mandala please provide the link or a more complete reference so that I can hunt it up. Thank you in anticipation …
An interesting analysis that highlights Thaksin’s apparent complete lack of ideological commitment as he flits around the policy supermarket picking out the best deal of the day for himself and his clan. The truth is that he is a died-in-the-wool elitist but was too crude and pushy to be accepted by the “amartiya” that he longed to be a part of, viz his ill fated encouragement of his dissipated son’s royal dates early in his first regime. His master plan surely extends to shaping a new post-facto amartiya that he can influence behind the scenes in addition to wielding the front office power openly or through nominees. Why on earth would he want to force it into bankruptcy when he can drive down the share price and pick it up at a distressed price and recapitalize it under new management?
Veerayooth’s final call to academic red shirts to encourage polls and surveys and confront Thaksin with the statistics gleaned thus when elections approach is pathetic and weak in the extreme. They will never get what they want from Thaksin and continuing to support him is futile. Instead, they should get out from under his coat tails and face reality by pushing either from within the red shirt movement or from without for the social, legal and economic reform they believe befits Thailand’s semi-industrialized status. Of course, it will be a long, hard fought struggle without the quick money and other rewards slushing around today’s red shirt leaders. However, Thaksin’s weakness is his lack of commitment to introducing a consistent form of democratic liberal socialism or even any real interest in the ordinary Thai people. One day this will cause him and/or his clan to be outflanked in the same way he cleverly outflanked the sleepy Democrats who found themselves unwittingly forced into being a pro-coup, pro-military party 15 years after their successful positioning as an anti-military party under Chuan following the Suchinda coup.
One may resign oneself to thinking it a loss cause,considering how rhetoric used in the past by UK ministers often had little effect on it’s policies toward “friends” of the UK.But these are the days of the internet,and determined bloggers worldwide will use their new gained tools to chase harrie and embarrass UK ministers into keeping their word.I for one will do and have done exactly that, having already lobbied my local Conservative MP regularly while also being in touch with UK opposition figures overseeing Thailand and the region.You might be surprised how little real respect individual ministers and politicians (at least whom I’ve spoken to)here in the UK have for Thai nationalists and Abhisit’s political party who to quote one MP “hide behind their royal family”.Further optimism may be gained from such human rights champions as Green leader Caroline Lucas,who consistently pushes both parties to do what is right.I have no doubt in my mind those laughing in the face of free speech and human rights will soon be waking up to a nasty surprise.
Billy, I listen avidly to the BBC (on shortwave, no less) and can report that the press and governments around the world (especially where Murdoch has any prominence) do indeed make statements about the scandals in the UK. It is usually done with sarcasm and humour, but it does happen.
Let us imagine for a minute that within the confines of Thai parliament someone took the floor, expressed outrage at the UK’s media environment, the cosying up of MPs with media figures, phone hacking etc etc. And then the Foreign Minister, feigning outrage, reports back that these things are of concern, should not be happening and so on. Specifically he mentions Milly Downer…
In the government’s draft budget, there is another kind of “donation.” Item 2.1 envisages that 12,5 billion baht of tax payers’ money will be spent on worshipping, protecting and preserving the monarchy. I wonder for what, and by whom, this money will be spent.
Can anybody say whether such a budget item was already included in the budget of fiscal 2012, and how much money was earmarked for this purpose?
According to Matichon (May 23, p. 3 column), Thaksin had said in his phone-in something like, “Today, we have reached the end of our path. It is like the people have rowed me in a boat to the bank. From now on it is about climbing a mountain. For this, I have to get into a car. The people do not need to carry the boat on their shoulders and send me up the mountain.”
In this context, can anybody confirm that Thaksin, in the same phone-in, said that this would be the last time that he phoned in to a UDD event?
In double tennis without understanding of one another, both players watch the easy balls pass by.
Admired and popular or not , people felt she might do something. And the military’s plans marched on unhindered.
In fact people even interpret her silence as a sign of wisdom as Nic just did. Might very well be true if one accepts that a few hundred killed and a few hundreds of thousands displaced are small matters in this infinite universe.
After a whole year of worsening conditions in the country, any one saying anything bad about her is ostracized, again as Nic alluded.
It is high time, people really start to do things as should be done by themselves.
If the Burmese public feel like killing the Kachins, they should continue as they now are, but if there is some basic human spirit left and feel killing for money like common robber might not be so wonderful an idea, it is high time to state that before Min Aung Hlaing lets the blood-thirstydogs into Laiza as it could be done in a matter of hours.
If people wait for Aung San Suu Kyi what she might do, the message is loud and clear already. NOTHING!
Her action in the last year has been full and unconditional support of ALL the plans by the military – Kachin killings, dropping sanctions, ASEAN chair not that it is anything fabulous, Thein Sein’s Publicist, etc -and full co-operation except for that famous attempt to change 2 or 3 different words, which again is a wise move apparently. Signing ALL the cheques written by the military.
Only that it is not for her to sign. The public has to decide. The REAL public.
What do you expect from a bastion of royalism like the Siam Society? I note that it has the same view of “donation” as the royal family does of taxpayers’ money. It is a donation that is required.
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Why the compromise game?
#15 Tom Hoy
“If ever Amsterdam was simply the paid hireling of Thaksin, which so many have accused him of, he is certainly not that now.”
He wasn’t accused of being a paid hireling…. He was actually hired….
What do you think he is now?
Lese majeste response from UK government
My inquiry to Kerry McCarthy, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs, UK, re. the Ah Kong case was answered by her today. Here is her reply:
Dear Mr Anderson
Thank you very much for taking the trouble to email me. I am grateful for your comments, and would like to wish you a happy birthday for last week.
We can sometimes be reliant on reports from organisations like Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, so it is very useful to have additionally your insight from inside Thailand and I have also been in touch with a British expat about Ampon Tangnoppakul and lese majeste.
Needless to say, his arrest, imprisonment and death were deeply disturbing and saddening but Ah Kong’s treatment has raised international awareness of the implications of lese majeste, the limits of freedom of expression in Thailand and weaknesses in the judicial process, as well as concerns about the treatment of prisoners. Of course, we cannot simply base our judgement on the reports of the Thai authorities, and my questions were addressed to the Secretary of State for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in the UK. As is the usual practice, they were answered by the Minister with specific responsibility for Thailand and human rights, and I have included below the links to his answers for your information.
I will certainly continue to press the Foreign Office to ensure that human rights, in Thailand and elsewhere, are high on the international agenda, and thank you again for the information you provided.
Best wishes
Kerry McCarthy
Labour MP for Bristol East
Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs
FGA note: The replies, are, of course, the same links as earlier provided on these pages.
Thai Studies at Harvard
Let us suppose Harvard does go ahead and accepts Thai royalist funding for its new Thai Studies Dept and Endowed Chair, then let us imagine the Paul Handley’s “The King Never Smiles” (Yale University Press), one of the key books in tracing the reign of the present king, (or should I say, following the lead of Thai royalists, the present re-incarnation of the Hindu God Vishnu), is included in the curriculum of the courses and in the Institute’s library collection.
Now let us peer over the shoulder of a young Harvard undergraduate as he reads “The King Never Smiles” book and then practices his newly acquired Thai language skills by translating a section of the book, which he then submits as part of his coursework and also, for fun and to show off to his friends, posts it on his blog.
During his summer break, the student travels to Thailand for some kind of internship and to improve his Thai language skills. To his surprise and shock, on his arrival at Suvarnabhumi Airport, he is taken aside, arrested, charged with Lese Majeste, shackled into leg irons and thrown in a 15 person Thai prison cell with a hole in the corner for a toilet.
The Thai court refuses to grant the student any bail as he is an obvious flight risk being enrolled as a student in the U.S. without any family or roots in Thailand. His trial goes on and on until after some months, he is found guilty and sentenced to 5 years hard time in a Thai prison. Each time he is brought to and from the Thai court, his legs are shackled in leg irons in order to humiliate and degrade him.
Impossible? A fantasy? A playful nightmare that could never happen?
Well, as many of you know, at this very moment, a U.S. citizen named Joe Gordon sits rotting in a multi-person Thai prison cell, shackled in leg irons for his court appearances, having been arrested while visiting Thailand, denied any bail, tried and convicted of translating some sections of the very same “The King Never Smiles” book and posting those sections on a blog while he was resident in his home in Colorado.
So if Harvard wishes to get in bed with the Thai royalists, the Thai royal family and the ubiquitous and criminally-enforced Cult of Personality constructed around the Thai King, that’s the bed they’re getting into and the unforeseen consequences will be their reward.
FACT’s plea for Joe Gordon
It is the Eve of the First Anniversary of the arrest of Joe Gordon, I am saddened that my fellow Coloradan remains incarcerated in a foreign country, ingnored by our State Department and Embassy.
Shame on You Civil Servants and Elected officials for failing to protect the rights of American Citizens.
Shame on you for not repeatedly publicly condeming the Royal Thai Goverment Authorities for violating Human Rights.
Shame on you for not urging sanctions against the Royal Thai Goverment.
Tomorrow, Joe begins his second year incarcerated in Thailand’s prisons.
Thailand: Stop this insanity. Send Joe Home Now!!!
Lese majeste response from UK government
Thailand has trod on the US constitution with impunity several times, and not only with Joe Gordon and Thais who call in to US TV talk shows. There will be a day of reckoning, but not with any State Department assistance of that you can be certain.
Thai criminal law allows for global jurisdiction over speech and behavior of anyone for any reason deemed to be insulting, embarrassing or defamatory to Thai, Thailand, or Thai institutions. Not just LM. Criminal cases can be filed anytime and when the fly hits the spider’s web, hasta la vista baby!
There are legions of zealous witch-at-the-stake void-of-decency individuals in Thailand and abroad willing and able to crush what remaining decency exists here and there. All for the sake of their beliefs, all at the expense of yours. Democracy?
Why the compromise game?
Michael #14
Thanks for the info. My question was based on a quote of Natthawut Saikuea in Matichon. This direct quote sounded as if Thaksin had said that it was his last phone-in, prompting Natthawut to add that this fact would not change the love the red shirts had for Thaksin (also quoting from memory). Since this sounded quite strong to me, I have been trying to get some independent confirmation about what Thaksin actually said (if possible in Thai).
Why the compromise game?
One interesting thing to emerge from the rally was that Robert Amsterdam’s message was all about the necessity of finding justice and truth as a precondition for reconciliation. His tune was radically different to Thaksin’s. In fact, I don’t recall him even mentioning Thaksin by name
If ever Amsterdam was simply the paid hireling of Thaksin, which so many have accused him of, he is certainly not that now.
Lese majeste response from UK government
Billy D
Actually, if you read the piece and the responses you would realise that the UK’s statement is in step with the Universal Periodic Review at the United Nations Human Rights Council which involved several countries, not all Western, signing up to a statement calling for LM to be reformed.
Sure, you can claim the UN is nothing more than a talking shop, but to claim that the UK’s statement was made in isolation in some sub-room of the UK parliament is factually incorrect.
Your equivalence with the UK’s ongoing hacking scandal also doesn’t stand up either.
The UK has started the Leveson inquiry, there have been dozens of arrests and the entire issue gets massive coverage in the UK media on a daily basis.
Thailand doesn’t even come close to having such debate on lese majeste a law, I should remind you, that Thailand claims LM has universal and global jurisdiction. Hence Joe Gordon being imprisoned for comments he made in the US.
That, in effect, internationalises the reach of LM and so allows for an internationalisation of response to it.
And that’s before we get onto the breaches of international human rights agreements…
Why the compromise game?
Srithanonchai,
Thaksin did make that comment about the boat and the mountain. But he also spent quite some time saying how he is a grateful person and won’t forget his debt to those who helped on the boat front.
Plus he specifically mentioned he would call on the Red Shirts for help again if democracy was ever threatened — which I take to be his all-purpose backup for if the current pact goes south or “things change”.
These were some of his less contradictory messages from a speech in which he claimed people could forget the past and also learn from the past; that Red Shirts ought to hand themselves in to justice and simultaneously that some highly-learned people in the justice system have no ability to think; and much more.
Regarding the “last speech” point, from memory he said he hoped this would be the last speech he would make from overseas. Not that he was sure — and certainly not that he wouldn’t be talking to the Reds any more, if that’s what you were thinking.
Why the compromise game?
Thanks phktresident,
Some clunky code seemed to have got in the way. I have fixed it — but this should also do the trick.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
Why the compromise game?
Help please — in the paragraphs “The Ammat network” there is a reference to “another article” providing a weblink that my system can not make work. Can New Mandala please provide the link or a more complete reference so that I can hunt it up. Thank you in anticipation …
Why the compromise game?
An interesting analysis that highlights Thaksin’s apparent complete lack of ideological commitment as he flits around the policy supermarket picking out the best deal of the day for himself and his clan. The truth is that he is a died-in-the-wool elitist but was too crude and pushy to be accepted by the “amartiya” that he longed to be a part of, viz his ill fated encouragement of his dissipated son’s royal dates early in his first regime. His master plan surely extends to shaping a new post-facto amartiya that he can influence behind the scenes in addition to wielding the front office power openly or through nominees. Why on earth would he want to force it into bankruptcy when he can drive down the share price and pick it up at a distressed price and recapitalize it under new management?
Veerayooth’s final call to academic red shirts to encourage polls and surveys and confront Thaksin with the statistics gleaned thus when elections approach is pathetic and weak in the extreme. They will never get what they want from Thaksin and continuing to support him is futile. Instead, they should get out from under his coat tails and face reality by pushing either from within the red shirt movement or from without for the social, legal and economic reform they believe befits Thailand’s semi-industrialized status. Of course, it will be a long, hard fought struggle without the quick money and other rewards slushing around today’s red shirt leaders. However, Thaksin’s weakness is his lack of commitment to introducing a consistent form of democratic liberal socialism or even any real interest in the ordinary Thai people. One day this will cause him and/or his clan to be outflanked in the same way he cleverly outflanked the sleepy Democrats who found themselves unwittingly forced into being a pro-coup, pro-military party 15 years after their successful positioning as an anti-military party under Chuan following the Suchinda coup.
Lese majeste response from UK government
One may resign oneself to thinking it a loss cause,considering how rhetoric used in the past by UK ministers often had little effect on it’s policies toward “friends” of the UK.But these are the days of the internet,and determined bloggers worldwide will use their new gained tools to chase harrie and embarrass UK ministers into keeping their word.I for one will do and have done exactly that, having already lobbied my local Conservative MP regularly while also being in touch with UK opposition figures overseeing Thailand and the region.You might be surprised how little real respect individual ministers and politicians (at least whom I’ve spoken to)here in the UK have for Thai nationalists and Abhisit’s political party who to quote one MP “hide behind their royal family”.Further optimism may be gained from such human rights champions as Green leader Caroline Lucas,who consistently pushes both parties to do what is right.I have no doubt in my mind those laughing in the face of free speech and human rights will soon be waking up to a nasty surprise.
Lese majeste response from UK government
Billy, I listen avidly to the BBC (on shortwave, no less) and can report that the press and governments around the world (especially where Murdoch has any prominence) do indeed make statements about the scandals in the UK. It is usually done with sarcasm and humour, but it does happen.
Why the compromise game?
Contin. from #9, see also from Tulsathit Thaptim in The Nation:
http://nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Thanks-for-the-ride-but-now-Ill-go-my-own-way-30182561.html
Lese majeste response from UK government
Let us imagine for a minute that within the confines of Thai parliament someone took the floor, expressed outrage at the UK’s media environment, the cosying up of MPs with media figures, phone hacking etc etc. And then the Foreign Minister, feigning outrage, reports back that these things are of concern, should not be happening and so on. Specifically he mentions Milly Downer…
Would anyone take any notice?
Talk on royal cremation ceremony
#5
In the government’s draft budget, there is another kind of “donation.” Item 2.1 envisages that 12,5 billion baht of tax payers’ money will be spent on worshipping, protecting and preserving the monarchy. I wonder for what, and by whom, this money will be spent.
Can anybody say whether such a budget item was already included in the budget of fiscal 2012, and how much money was earmarked for this purpose?
Why the compromise game?
An addition to the Thaksin-Red Shirt alliance.
According to Matichon (May 23, p. 3 column), Thaksin had said in his phone-in something like, “Today, we have reached the end of our path. It is like the people have rowed me in a boat to the bank. From now on it is about climbing a mountain. For this, I have to get into a car. The people do not need to carry the boat on their shoulders and send me up the mountain.”
In this context, can anybody confirm that Thaksin, in the same phone-in, said that this would be the last time that he phoned in to a UDD event?
Kachin State: Don’t mention the war
In double tennis without understanding of one another, both players watch the easy balls pass by.
Admired and popular or not , people felt she might do something. And the military’s plans marched on unhindered.
In fact people even interpret her silence as a sign of wisdom as Nic just did. Might very well be true if one accepts that a few hundred killed and a few hundreds of thousands displaced are small matters in this infinite universe.
After a whole year of worsening conditions in the country, any one saying anything bad about her is ostracized, again as Nic alluded.
It is high time, people really start to do things as should be done by themselves.
If the Burmese public feel like killing the Kachins, they should continue as they now are, but if there is some basic human spirit left and feel killing for money like common robber might not be so wonderful an idea, it is high time to state that before Min Aung Hlaing lets the blood-thirstydogs into Laiza as it could be done in a matter of hours.
If people wait for Aung San Suu Kyi what she might do, the message is loud and clear already. NOTHING!
Her action in the last year has been full and unconditional support of ALL the plans by the military – Kachin killings, dropping sanctions, ASEAN chair not that it is anything fabulous, Thein Sein’s Publicist, etc -and full co-operation except for that famous attempt to change 2 or 3 different words, which again is a wise move apparently. Signing ALL the cheques written by the military.
Only that it is not for her to sign. The public has to decide. The REAL public.
Talk on royal cremation ceremony
What do you expect from a bastion of royalism like the Siam Society? I note that it has the same view of “donation” as the royal family does of taxpayers’ money. It is a donation that is required.