No, no links but there is undoubtedly court records but I do not know if they are publicly available. He pled guilty simply because the post was LM and under the Computer Crime Act he was ultimately responsible for the breakdown in the company procedures that allowed the item to be posted. 2 other employees were also fined (and terminated by the company).
“Your suggestion that Jiew should just admit her guilt (even if she isn’t guilty) is just completely bizarre”
I f you could find your way to anything close to objectivity; you would see why the content of the posts would be important. If indeed the post were offensive and crossed the line into LM, then under the Computer Crime Act (agree with it or not) Chiranuch as webmaster and director of Prachatai is ultimately responsible to be sure such content is not allowed to be published.
Chiranuch believes she followed the Computer Crime Act as it pertains to her role as owner of the board but I haven’t seen any details as to why she believes that. The Computer Crime Act says that any service provider that “intentionally supporting or consenting” will be “subject to the same penalty”.
In the case I know about, there were strict procedures in place for items to be reviewed before being posted. These procedures were violated and item was posted. When the complaint was filed and the police investigated, this violation of the procedures was taken by the Police as an “intentional” consent. In a strictly legal context that it is hard to argue against that logic.
In her interview on February 9th, 2011 Chiranuch said she “was concerned that the internet (users) could be charged under the law.”, but somehow thought that her allowing the posts would not be considered an “intentional act” and she would not be charged. Based on what I have seen of how the “intentionally supporting or consenting “ clause of the Computer Crime Act is interpreted and the fact she admits the posts could be considered LM, she could be considered guilty. I wonder what would have happened if she had accepted that responsibility and pled guilty what would have happened.
So, putting aside all the hysteria, and accepting that fact that the Computer Crime Act is the law of Thailand, what was in the comments that caused her to be charged? Did it come out during the trial? Did anyone that attended the trial hear what they were? Where they rational scholarly discussions about the role of the monarchy or were they crude, obscene remarks about the king or his family?
Now again, let me say that I do not agree with many provisions of the Computer Crime Act or how it and article 112 is enforced. But they are both the law Thailand. That they need to be changed also cannot be disputed. I’m just not sure that using Chiranuch’s case and the comments in question is the way to go about it.
“….are they looking for yet another dynastic ruler?”
It is the most important question at this time of urgency as the full force of the business world is well coordinated – governments, agencies- financial and presumed developmental- to mould the virgin Burma into their liking with full cooperation of all concerned- military and THE oposition- without knowledge or agreement of the majority public.
It is perhaps time, as the press is open and all that, people are told who will be evicted, when and why. How any of the current carpet baggers in and out of the country are allowed to do what sort of destruction for money in the name of progress, etc.
May be some of this ” irrational exuberance” will evaporate then, as it should.
See only when people are informed fully and requested to let the others know their opinion on these issues, they would have life out of cult.
It seems this parliament thing is not just for the romantics and the opportunists, then? Than Shwe would be shaking in the nappy now!
It is though very expensive, right? Estimated about three generations just to pay back the Chinese. And full of funny clothed people trying to look important against the odds.
Name one that parliament has done in the last 365 days?
By the way, commiserations to the people’s champion, for wise moves, both.
Just a quick note about the “$500,000” spent by Thaksin: This is highly inaccurate. Hun Sen publicly announced his financial support for this event. All security, the location, and local transport were provided and covered by the Cambodian Government. in all Thaksin and the red shirts had very little expenses while in Cambodia.
Check out NIA’s Annual Reports. They claim that from 2006 to 2009 NIA gave 392.9 million Baht in financial support to private companies, stimulating corporate investment in innovative businesses of over 9.1 billion baht, i.e. 18 Baht for every baht invested by NIA across its whole portfolio (Ahem!!!!). Moreover, almost every single project seems to have achieved this eyebrow-raising IRR. If anyone believes this BS, I’d love to know what pills you’re on…
But I suppose the Secretary General of the Budget Bureau, who sits on NIA’s Board, has no problem with the claims.
And to Jon Wright-‘
‘ From Supachai’s CV: “Advisory Board Member, M.Sc. and Ph.D. Programme on Technopreneur and Innovation Management, Chulalongkorn University” ‘
Evidently Chula holds Supachai’s qualities in high esteem, having appointed him to this position even in the midst of this rumpus, and even though 2 years ago, when Matichon reported the outcome of Chula’s investigation, he accused Chula’s top executives in the media of ‘dishonest intentions’ against him. Gotta give it to him for sheer chutzpah!
Anyone else know anything about his BSc? Funny his Thai cv just says he graduated from the Faculty of Science, Chula, but the English version doesn’t mention his first degree. Worth a peep, I’d say.
We might be ushering in an era of the triumvirate, TS/ASSK/TSM, running the country if what you see is what you get in the way of ‘power sharing’ as manufactured by yet another cunning plan. But that would normally require a coalition govt with no decisive winner in the elections where smaller parties can become kingmakers with a lot of horsetrading going on before they settle down to an acceptable agreement.
A coup is a coup by any other name, and we have seen that with Ne Win’s first successful venture in 1958 which gave him a taste of untrammelled power. It’s been a long road to its eventual enshrinement in the constitution. They wouldn’t have included this crucial provision if they were absolutely certain that the 25% in uniform plus a ‘landslide victory’ in 2010 for the USDP ensuring practically unchallenged domination of both Houses was enough. Nothing less than fail safe for our generals.
Regardless of 2015, ASSK’s best chance remains winning over a good majority of parliamentarians and the Tatmadaw unless she has not planned for a real fighting chance to win the ‘second struggle for independence’ carrying all of us with her.
not sure how the by-election results could be understood to (dis) advantage equally the NLD and the “other opposition parties”. The latter were filleted.
as for the 2015 electoral “mode” not following the 2012 mode – let’s hope so in at least some respects. As someone wrote somewhere “Free & fair? Aung San Suu Kyi was courted by the president, the parliamentary speaker and also foreign government leaders as well as television channels – this pushed her to the top of the game but crippled other parties. Should this repeat during the 2015 [polls] ……………”
Thanks for the lecture, Aung. I feel most contrite and un-Burmese. Is there going to be a senate house committee to crack down on these unpatriotic elements?
I have always been under the impression that animal analogies our culture is very rich in not only reflect our being down to earth and close to nature, but a pointer to our own human behaviour (analogy is the operative word). Never realised we mustn’t compare ASSK with an animal; I’ll wash my filthy unworthy mouth.
I can’t speak for the lady named Ohn (you seem so sure of the gender), but the old country called Burma is not just yours. And can you ease up a bit on personal attacks, or would you prefer ad hominem? It’s embarrassing.
Aung knowingly or unknowingly overlooks the fact that the armed conflict where there are so many solutions , which he doesn’t care to elaborate, takes two sides seemingly lost for a mutually satisfactory way out.
Yes, there are so many options they(the Kachin) can choose such as Ohn has described, generally getting short shrift from the govt forces who are supposed to be observing a ceasefire.
The fact that they have benefited from the years of the Khin Nyunt ceasefire, including border trade and Hpakant, does not diminish the horror of civil war that has revisited upon them, unless you happen to think playing the refugees (IDP) is great fun.
And the lightening fast growth of China has not been particularly kind on the Kachin when their potential place as the comprador bourgeoisie has been usurped by those close to govt circles, and the Myitsone dam debacle is still hanging like a lethal mist over their hinterlands.
Granted ASSK remains Burma’s hope including the minorities. She is only human in case you have forgotten, and far from being flawless albeit already sainted and any criticism in her direction deemed sacrilege. It begs the question then – are such people ready for democracy or are they looking for yet another dynastic ruler?
Two grand figures who royally ruined their countries history, but Germans were quicker to recover from Uncle Adolf – Thailand still has to suffer from it’s royalist die-hard Dems.
There was a young female Bangkok Post journalist from the US stumbling across the story of the NIA director’s fake thesis.
Erika Fry was even imprisoned for a few days when this guy sued her about her investigative report pubished by the Bangkok Post, but she managed to flee the county last year before things got worse. Moral and legal Support by her employer was obviously less than impressive.
Searching for her name on google, it looks like she got now a less risky job as a journalist at home (US).
I don’t like arguing for the argument sake, U Moe Aung, Sire. But I am compelled to do so in this case. As you might be fully aware of but purposefully blind to the the usage, the word “lee”, “hsin lee khway hmyaw” is limited to a number of occasion, definitely not in public unless it is a verbal skirmish between or group of unruly individuals of poor moral upbringing. I vividly remember my mother mentioned “hsin lee khway hmyaw” once with a tone of mild warning twenty five years ago when I was upset because of breakup with my then girlfriend. (I married her in Sydney five years later and we are together since.) Other occasions might be between close male friends; we used the phrases “lee phyit nay lar!”, “lee bel kwar” or “lee bel” when a friend tease you, meaning “What a dick!” “F you, man! or F that!” respectively; in private conversation of husband and wife (very rare, only as a anatomical reference, definitely NOT in front of children, my wife usually employs the word “your one or yours” most of the time); or in pillow talks.
Even in “A Nyein’t”, a burmese stage show usually held open air where two or more comedians doing stand-ups with a female dancer performs a traditional dance at the rehearsed intervals, where there can be a number of dirty jokes or jokes with sexual references, the word “lee” is NOT use. Everyone finds it a turnoff and especially insulting to female audience. The comedians usually use rhyming words such as “Bee” meaning ‘comb’, “Htee” meaning ‘umbrella’ in the place of “lee” that is still a big No No. It is similar to using the word “Dolorous” to express the intended word. In old days the word “wheel” with silence ‘L’ is used which is corrupted form of the word “Whay” which means “whay se” or male gonad. We Burmese don’t use “Lee” to outsider including Burma born Indian or Chinese as everyone thinks and still believes “lee” words is exclusive to Burmese and do not carry the same weight as used between two Burmese. A number of F words can be used for “Kalar Phyu” or white Indians but the Burmese equivalence of “You son of a b…, you + race title” is invariably used. I hope this mini treatise on the Burmese L word will get the point across.
Now comes an important point. I found the comparison phrases used in “a. ASSK, the graceful she elephant,(sic)” very disturbing. And to find it came from a person with a Burmese name is beyond my mental capacity. Firstly we only use animal proverbs to explain an event or incident like “Hsin Kyi Serr Yar Seit Mah Khan Thar” meaning ‘a playful poke or kick from an elephant is very painful for a goat while it is merely a friendly gesture from the elephant’s viewpoint. However animal analogy of human being is very rude in this example of comparing DASSK with a tame female elephant, “hsin-ma yin-tha”. “jounthwin htarbi” can simply mean an elephant in stockade but I believe U Moe Aung is indirectly saying she is in the stockade of forced breeding. To rub the salt in the wound, he used “hsin jan, jan da” which mean taking a female from behind while she is in hapless position. We don’t use this kind of terminology especially for DASSK who I respect in the same way as my biological mother.
While I am overwhelmed with this gross insensitivity, I truly feel very sorry for both U Moe Aung and the lady named Ohn as I sincerely believe their upbringings and their younger years in my old country called Burma must be very unpleasant. And I promise here that I will do anything in my small and humble capacity to help them ease the pain if needed and asked for.
I hope more academics or scholars who cherish our Burmese culture may soon find their way to Mandala to promote better understanding of this beautiful culture. It does not have to be the victim of circumstance as it is now.
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Chiranuch Premchaiporn verdict (not) today
Andrew #17
No, no links but there is undoubtedly court records but I do not know if they are publicly available. He pled guilty simply because the post was LM and under the Computer Crime Act he was ultimately responsible for the breakdown in the company procedures that allowed the item to be posted. 2 other employees were also fined (and terminated by the company).
“Your suggestion that Jiew should just admit her guilt (even if she isn’t guilty) is just completely bizarre”
I f you could find your way to anything close to objectivity; you would see why the content of the posts would be important. If indeed the post were offensive and crossed the line into LM, then under the Computer Crime Act (agree with it or not) Chiranuch as webmaster and director of Prachatai is ultimately responsible to be sure such content is not allowed to be published.
Chiranuch believes she followed the Computer Crime Act as it pertains to her role as owner of the board but I haven’t seen any details as to why she believes that. The Computer Crime Act says that any service provider that “intentionally supporting or consenting” will be “subject to the same penalty”.
In the case I know about, there were strict procedures in place for items to be reviewed before being posted. These procedures were violated and item was posted. When the complaint was filed and the police investigated, this violation of the procedures was taken by the Police as an “intentional” consent. In a strictly legal context that it is hard to argue against that logic.
In her interview on February 9th, 2011 Chiranuch said she “was concerned that the internet (users) could be charged under the law.”, but somehow thought that her allowing the posts would not be considered an “intentional act” and she would not be charged. Based on what I have seen of how the “intentionally supporting or consenting “ clause of the Computer Crime Act is interpreted and the fact she admits the posts could be considered LM, she could be considered guilty. I wonder what would have happened if she had accepted that responsibility and pled guilty what would have happened.
So, putting aside all the hysteria, and accepting that fact that the Computer Crime Act is the law of Thailand, what was in the comments that caused her to be charged? Did it come out during the trial? Did anyone that attended the trial hear what they were? Where they rational scholarly discussions about the role of the monarchy or were they crude, obscene remarks about the king or his family?
Now again, let me say that I do not agree with many provisions of the Computer Crime Act or how it and article 112 is enforced. But they are both the law Thailand. That they need to be changed also cannot be disputed. I’m just not sure that using Chiranuch’s case and the comments in question is the way to go about it.
Shining light on Kachin war coverage
“….are they looking for yet another dynastic ruler?”
It is the most important question at this time of urgency as the full force of the business world is well coordinated – governments, agencies- financial and presumed developmental- to mould the virgin Burma into their liking with full cooperation of all concerned- military and THE oposition- without knowledge or agreement of the majority public.
It is perhaps time, as the press is open and all that, people are told who will be evicted, when and why. How any of the current carpet baggers in and out of the country are allowed to do what sort of destruction for money in the name of progress, etc.
May be some of this ” irrational exuberance” will evaporate then, as it should.
See only when people are informed fully and requested to let the others know their opinion on these issues, they would have life out of cult.
The elephant and Myanmar politics
Incidentally, Dr Lun Swe site has described the NLD registration at that time as elephant in the stockade. True.
Analysis of Myanmar’s NLD landslide
It seems this parliament thing is not just for the romantics and the opportunists, then? Than Shwe would be shaking in the nappy now!
It is though very expensive, right? Estimated about three generations just to pay back the Chinese. And full of funny clothed people trying to look important against the odds.
Name one that parliament has done in the last 365 days?
By the way, commiserations to the people’s champion, for wise moves, both.
Songkran in Cambodia: Red Shirts meet Thaksin
Just a quick note about the “$500,000” spent by Thaksin: This is highly inaccurate. Hun Sen publicly announced his financial support for this event. All security, the location, and local transport were provided and covered by the Cambodian Government. in all Thaksin and the red shirts had very little expenses while in Cambodia.
The elephant and Myanmar politics
Well said #12
So much for self denigration by one’s own that invite the West to regard Myanmar as such…worthless.
University rankings from Chula’s perspective
Check out NIA’s Annual Reports. They claim that from 2006 to 2009 NIA gave 392.9 million Baht in financial support to private companies, stimulating corporate investment in innovative businesses of over 9.1 billion baht, i.e. 18 Baht for every baht invested by NIA across its whole portfolio (Ahem!!!!). Moreover, almost every single project seems to have achieved this eyebrow-raising IRR. If anyone believes this BS, I’d love to know what pills you’re on…
But I suppose the Secretary General of the Budget Bureau, who sits on NIA’s Board, has no problem with the claims.
And to Jon Wright-‘
‘ From Supachai’s CV: “Advisory Board Member, M.Sc. and Ph.D. Programme on Technopreneur and Innovation Management, Chulalongkorn University” ‘
Evidently Chula holds Supachai’s qualities in high esteem, having appointed him to this position even in the midst of this rumpus, and even though 2 years ago, when Matichon reported the outcome of Chula’s investigation, he accused Chula’s top executives in the media of ‘dishonest intentions’ against him. Gotta give it to him for sheer chutzpah!
Anyone else know anything about his BSc? Funny his Thai cv just says he graduated from the Faculty of Science, Chula, but the English version doesn’t mention his first degree. Worth a peep, I’d say.
University rankings from Chula’s perspective
Arthurson: “According to the “Webometrics Ranking of World Universities,” … Chulalongkorn University is ranked 418th in the world”
Now 173rd
http://www.webometrics.info/top100_continent.asp?cont=asia
That list now shows several Thai universities in a favourable light – Kasetsart is 140th and Mahidol is 202nd.
In the QS list Chula is now ranked 171, Mahidol 229 (just below RMIT).
Malaysia’s struggle for reform is on the streets, and in the news
[…] READ MORE HERE Share ThisTweetFacebookLinkedInTumblrStumbleDiggDeliciousLeave a reply Copyright © 2012 Fhonsekha | MY Blog. All Rights Reserved. […]
University rankings from Chula’s perspective
> “Erika Fry was even imprisoned for a few days”
a few hours
> “she managed to flee the county last year”
July 2010
Analysis of Myanmar’s NLD landslide
We might be ushering in an era of the triumvirate, TS/ASSK/TSM, running the country if what you see is what you get in the way of ‘power sharing’ as manufactured by yet another cunning plan. But that would normally require a coalition govt with no decisive winner in the elections where smaller parties can become kingmakers with a lot of horsetrading going on before they settle down to an acceptable agreement.
A coup is a coup by any other name, and we have seen that with Ne Win’s first successful venture in 1958 which gave him a taste of untrammelled power. It’s been a long road to its eventual enshrinement in the constitution. They wouldn’t have included this crucial provision if they were absolutely certain that the 25% in uniform plus a ‘landslide victory’ in 2010 for the USDP ensuring practically unchallenged domination of both Houses was enough. Nothing less than fail safe for our generals.
Regardless of 2015, ASSK’s best chance remains winning over a good majority of parliamentarians and the Tatmadaw unless she has not planned for a real fighting chance to win the ‘second struggle for independence’ carrying all of us with her.
Analysis of Myanmar’s NLD landslide
#2
not sure how the by-election results could be understood to (dis) advantage equally the NLD and the “other opposition parties”. The latter were filleted.
as for the 2015 electoral “mode” not following the 2012 mode – let’s hope so in at least some respects. As someone wrote somewhere “Free & fair? Aung San Suu Kyi was courted by the president, the parliamentary speaker and also foreign government leaders as well as television channels – this pushed her to the top of the game but crippled other parties. Should this repeat during the 2015 [polls] ……………”
The elephant and Myanmar politics
Thanks for the lecture, Aung. I feel most contrite and un-Burmese. Is there going to be a senate house committee to crack down on these unpatriotic elements?
I have always been under the impression that animal analogies our culture is very rich in not only reflect our being down to earth and close to nature, but a pointer to our own human behaviour (analogy is the operative word). Never realised we mustn’t compare ASSK with an animal; I’ll wash my filthy unworthy mouth.
I can’t speak for the lady named Ohn (you seem so sure of the gender), but the old country called Burma is not just yours. And can you ease up a bit on personal attacks, or would you prefer ad hominem? It’s embarrassing.
Shining light on Kachin war coverage
Aung knowingly or unknowingly overlooks the fact that the armed conflict where there are so many solutions , which he doesn’t care to elaborate, takes two sides seemingly lost for a mutually satisfactory way out.
Yes, there are so many options they(the Kachin) can choose such as Ohn has described, generally getting short shrift from the govt forces who are supposed to be observing a ceasefire.
The fact that they have benefited from the years of the Khin Nyunt ceasefire, including border trade and Hpakant, does not diminish the horror of civil war that has revisited upon them, unless you happen to think playing the refugees (IDP) is great fun.
And the lightening fast growth of China has not been particularly kind on the Kachin when their potential place as the comprador bourgeoisie has been usurped by those close to govt circles, and the Myitsone dam debacle is still hanging like a lethal mist over their hinterlands.
Granted ASSK remains Burma’s hope including the minorities. She is only human in case you have forgotten, and far from being flawless albeit already sainted and any criticism in her direction deemed sacrilege. It begs the question then – are such people ready for democracy or are they looking for yet another dynastic ruler?
Rama VII and Hitler
Two grand figures who royally ruined their countries history, but Germans were quicker to recover from Uncle Adolf – Thailand still has to suffer from it’s royalist die-hard Dems.
Chiranuch Premchaiporn verdict (not) today
Not quite Kristie Kenney, John Smith sounds more like Tony Cartolucci, the “Land Destroyer”
University rankings from Chula’s perspective
There was a young female Bangkok Post journalist from the US stumbling across the story of the NIA director’s fake thesis.
Erika Fry was even imprisoned for a few days when this guy sued her about her investigative report pubished by the Bangkok Post, but she managed to flee the county last year before things got worse. Moral and legal Support by her employer was obviously less than impressive.
Searching for her name on google, it looks like she got now a less risky job as a journalist at home (US).
The elephant and Myanmar politics
I don’t like arguing for the argument sake, U Moe Aung, Sire. But I am compelled to do so in this case. As you might be fully aware of but purposefully blind to the the usage, the word “lee”, “hsin lee khway hmyaw” is limited to a number of occasion, definitely not in public unless it is a verbal skirmish between or group of unruly individuals of poor moral upbringing. I vividly remember my mother mentioned “hsin lee khway hmyaw” once with a tone of mild warning twenty five years ago when I was upset because of breakup with my then girlfriend. (I married her in Sydney five years later and we are together since.) Other occasions might be between close male friends; we used the phrases “lee phyit nay lar!”, “lee bel kwar” or “lee bel” when a friend tease you, meaning “What a dick!” “F you, man! or F that!” respectively; in private conversation of husband and wife (very rare, only as a anatomical reference, definitely NOT in front of children, my wife usually employs the word “your one or yours” most of the time); or in pillow talks.
Even in “A Nyein’t”, a burmese stage show usually held open air where two or more comedians doing stand-ups with a female dancer performs a traditional dance at the rehearsed intervals, where there can be a number of dirty jokes or jokes with sexual references, the word “lee” is NOT use. Everyone finds it a turnoff and especially insulting to female audience. The comedians usually use rhyming words such as “Bee” meaning ‘comb’, “Htee” meaning ‘umbrella’ in the place of “lee” that is still a big No No. It is similar to using the word “Dolorous” to express the intended word. In old days the word “wheel” with silence ‘L’ is used which is corrupted form of the word “Whay” which means “whay se” or male gonad. We Burmese don’t use “Lee” to outsider including Burma born Indian or Chinese as everyone thinks and still believes “lee” words is exclusive to Burmese and do not carry the same weight as used between two Burmese. A number of F words can be used for “Kalar Phyu” or white Indians but the Burmese equivalence of “You son of a b…, you + race title” is invariably used. I hope this mini treatise on the Burmese L word will get the point across.
Now comes an important point. I found the comparison phrases used in “a. ASSK, the graceful she elephant,(sic)” very disturbing. And to find it came from a person with a Burmese name is beyond my mental capacity. Firstly we only use animal proverbs to explain an event or incident like “Hsin Kyi Serr Yar Seit Mah Khan Thar” meaning ‘a playful poke or kick from an elephant is very painful for a goat while it is merely a friendly gesture from the elephant’s viewpoint. However animal analogy of human being is very rude in this example of comparing DASSK with a tame female elephant, “hsin-ma yin-tha”. “jounthwin htarbi” can simply mean an elephant in stockade but I believe U Moe Aung is indirectly saying she is in the stockade of forced breeding. To rub the salt in the wound, he used “hsin jan, jan da” which mean taking a female from behind while she is in hapless position. We don’t use this kind of terminology especially for DASSK who I respect in the same way as my biological mother.
While I am overwhelmed with this gross insensitivity, I truly feel very sorry for both U Moe Aung and the lady named Ohn as I sincerely believe their upbringings and their younger years in my old country called Burma must be very unpleasant. And I promise here that I will do anything in my small and humble capacity to help them ease the pain if needed and asked for.
I hope more academics or scholars who cherish our Burmese culture may soon find their way to Mandala to promote better understanding of this beautiful culture. It does not have to be the victim of circumstance as it is now.
Rama VII and Hitler
thanks for sharing. a small mistake:
Bad Homburg is not in Bavaria, but in Hessen, near to Frankfurt am Main.
Rama VII and Hitler
Just read that a Dem Party MP shouted out “Heil Hitler” in the Thai parliament today.
I guess, just like Dr. Strangelove, he couldn’t help himself….
http://www.naewna.com/politic/5542