Whatever.
How fortunate i do not depend on your endorsement, whoever you may be. And yes, thank you, there is a tendency of a certain ilk found on both sides in this highly charged atmosphere to use as primary source in their “work” whatever corresponds to their own opinion. Fortunately i rarely encounter those during “my” work, as they rarely tend to be on the ground – which is where i prefer to be.
And now, i would suggest to close this increasingly tedious debate.
Thank you for your opinion, and i will promise to try to improve my spelling… 😉
Nick: I trust AFP, who committed their estimate to an actual story above you, who prefers to endlessly argue the toss in the comments section(s) of a blog. I use AFP as the primary source in my work so I know very well how they work. You call yourself a journalist but I just cannot parse your first paragraph at all and sorry but you can’t spell the name of the last paper you worked for.
SteveCM: No, I’m questioning where they might have been at any particular point during the weekend. This article says Thaksin was “…in front of a crowd of …”.
I always put the names of people i address here in quotes.
The only thing that is tedious here is arguing about numbers with somebody [you] who has not even been there, and who seems to have not much an idea of how wire services work. AFP also consists only of humans, and none of the in these protests experienced AFP reporters have been there, who also have the contacts necessary to confirm these numbers.
Like it or not, there is no journalist who has spent more time covering the protests of the past 6 years than me – on all sides. And if you google my name, you may find that AFP has on several occasions cited me as well.
Anything above a few hundred people begins getting difficult to guess, and the more people the margin of error gets bigger, especially when a large amount of people gather at a place that one is not familiar with.
That is why you need additional sources of information, which i have presented here: the number of prepared chairs at the stage area, and my proven sources in the Thai intelligence apparatus, who themselves came to their numbers, corresponding to the guess based on the amount of occupied chairs, by the amount of Red Shirts crossing the border check points.
And i have already written that i am working on a little story which will also include photos of the crowd. Just be patient.
Dr. Wissanu’s life and career show what a “cunning bird” (Nok Ru in Thai) he is to survive. One must bend with the wind, in spite of the fact that one has achieved eminence as law scholar.
By the standards of his normal performance in such exercises, The Notion‘s Tulsathit makes a very rare valid point about Thaksin’s substitution of a particular Thai phrase into that ear-straining rendition of “Let It Be”.
Well, perhaps I know where you’re coming from anon. Thankfully his ‘analysis’ is a lot less regular on here these days. One piece published in 2012 was very poor and another was just dross. Aside from analysis or insight, good old fact-checking doesn’t really float his boat either.
Nick Nostitz: I don’t think the AFP reporter was just guesstimating – reading the “the crowd appeared closer to 10,000” quote makes it sound like they had the 30,000 figure in mind and they were disputing that figure with some confidence and with some emphasis. You seem to want to profess some kind of expertise with estimating crowd numbers and I skimmed over your long, repeated and tedious arguments in another thread. AFP are credible as far as I’m concerned. I’ve not come across another repetition of the 30,000 number – all the usual credible sources simply said ‘thousands’.
[Vichai, I agree with you. Many nauseating incidents that need to be reported and investigated by some independent authority other than the police themselves, go unreported.]
What keeps me up at night is that the western academics at ANU and Columbia (being asked questions in this posting as well as other postings) are not themselves kept up at night wondering about their role in the very events they study, political events in Asia, especially with respect to education and poverty (also called reflexivity).
1. That they theorize about democracy and solving the problem of global poverty but do very little to make this a concrete reality using the means they have at their disposal.
2. That they are themselves not aware of their role in passively accepting the international academic status quo handed to them on a plate (money for degrees and class time, very large amounts of money, increasingly out of reach for almost everyone) and not fighting this and struggling with it.
In one posting, one venerable professor lauds the Asian countries for “sending them” higher quality, more open-minded students, completely unaware that he is an elite (aka Amat) educating fellow elites perpetuating a system of elitism.
2. Completely unaware, that for the most part it is rich parents sending rich children overseas to obtain the prestigious western degree that will set the child apart and put them in an elite echelon and perpetuate the child’s elite status that a poor person could only dream to enter, if they only knew that this was the way that things worked.
It doesn’t have to be this way.
3. Education and knowledge can be made largely a free good available to all in the public domain and poor people can be taught to self-educate.
4. Happy to say two innovative computer science professors (engineers) at my alma mater have seen the light, even though the academic institution itself tried hard to thwart their idea and effort, but this too will most likely change given time, the momentum is developing: The Stanford Education Experiment Could Change Higher Learning Forever (Wired, March 20, 2012)
Well KIO has ways better infrastructure than the current gov or ASSK group. In fact, Kachins do not need ASSK but ASSK might need Kachin if she really want to inform her So called national reconciliation. But ASSK is too afraid to speak up about Kachin or she has the same interest like Military Gov. We haven’t seen any goods come out from ASSK.
“Any idea why your estimate should diverge so markedly with the one made by the ‘AFP reporter at the scene’ (10,000)?”
No idea as AFP did not disclose their methodology of counting or identity of their reporter. Was it a stringer, local staff, or a reporter with extensive experience in large crowds?
I can only say that not many reporters and journalists were present, some Thai reporters of Thai publications i know and local Cambodian reporters, and only one from the usual Bangkok crowd.
Just because the label ‘AFP’ is attached does not make a number automatically accurate as human error or inexperience in such events can sway a number easily. That is why i always try to confirm numbers via different sources, and I have disclosed my sources here.
Yes, i do know that Red Shirts got into Angkor Wat for free. So did i, when i have shown my Press Pass from the rally to the entry check point. At the Angkor Wat event more reporters were present than during the rally the evening before. Still, it was mostly Thai reporters and local Cambodian reporters.
Most Bangkok based western reporters, i believe, were tired from their Burma trips, and went on a Songkran holiday.
[…] contribution in recent years has not been his writing but his innovative lese majeste-focused Ah Kong fearlessness campaign. At the time, Pavin’s action was brave and much […]
Like almost everyone else, and for obvious reasons, I have not seen Shakepeare Must Die by Ing Kanjanavanit and Manit Sriwanichpoom.
However, it seems obvious to me that most of the commentators on NM so far have never ever read the original Macbeth.
For those who have, you may recall that the real bad guy is Lady Macbeth, the Queen. Hence, when I first heard about the ban I assumed it was the role of the Queen that was problematic. Now, I am simply confused.
The reason for the decision should be given.
Moreover, I find it deeply depressing that some contributors to NM can support this kind of censorship.
For another Asian version of Macbeth that was not censored I recommend to you all THRONE OF BLOOD by Akira Kurosawa made in 1957.
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When Thaksin comes home
“Jon Wright”:
Whatever.
How fortunate i do not depend on your endorsement, whoever you may be. And yes, thank you, there is a tendency of a certain ilk found on both sides in this highly charged atmosphere to use as primary source in their “work” whatever corresponds to their own opinion. Fortunately i rarely encounter those during “my” work, as they rarely tend to be on the ground – which is where i prefer to be.
And now, i would suggest to close this increasingly tedious debate.
Thank you for your opinion, and i will promise to try to improve my spelling… 😉
When Thaksin comes home
Nick: I trust AFP, who committed their estimate to an actual story above you, who prefers to endlessly argue the toss in the comments section(s) of a blog. I use AFP as the primary source in my work so I know very well how they work. You call yourself a journalist but I just cannot parse your first paragraph at all and sorry but you can’t spell the name of the last paper you worked for.
SteveCM: No, I’m questioning where they might have been at any particular point during the weekend. This article says Thaksin was “…in front of a crowd of …”.
When Thaksin comes home
“Jon Wright”:
I always put the names of people i address here in quotes.
The only thing that is tedious here is arguing about numbers with somebody [you] who has not even been there, and who seems to have not much an idea of how wire services work. AFP also consists only of humans, and none of the in these protests experienced AFP reporters have been there, who also have the contacts necessary to confirm these numbers.
Like it or not, there is no journalist who has spent more time covering the protests of the past 6 years than me – on all sides. And if you google my name, you may find that AFP has on several occasions cited me as well.
Anything above a few hundred people begins getting difficult to guess, and the more people the margin of error gets bigger, especially when a large amount of people gather at a place that one is not familiar with.
That is why you need additional sources of information, which i have presented here: the number of prepared chairs at the stage area, and my proven sources in the Thai intelligence apparatus, who themselves came to their numbers, corresponding to the guess based on the amount of occupied chairs, by the amount of Red Shirts crossing the border check points.
And i have already written that i am working on a little story which will also include photos of the crowd. Just be patient.
Booming Burma
Speechless.
Review of This World’s a Stage
Dr. Wissanu’s life and career show what a “cunning bird” (Nok Ru in Thai) he is to survive. One must bend with the wind, in spite of the fact that one has achieved eminence as law scholar.
Double, double toil and trouble…
Oops, sorry, NM not LM: what a slip!
Double, double toil and trouble…
I agree with Andrew. Grant’s comments on LM don’t seem to match the posts.
When Thaksin comes home
By the standards of his normal performance in such exercises, The Notion‘s Tulsathit makes a very rare valid point about Thaksin’s substitution of a particular Thai phrase into that ear-straining rendition of “Let It Be”.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/video/6648
Curiously, the point is muddled to the extent of being lost in Tulsie’s opinion piece on the same day – see the final paragraph:
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Diplomatically-confused-about-Thaksin-Let-it-be-30180108.html
When Thaksin comes home
(c13)
“Do note that they were getting a free pass for Angkor Wat.”
Do I detect a switch from disputing the crowd size to now questioning the (insert number here) attendees’ motives for being there?
Thaksin’s freedom: The price of royalist-military dominance?
The Economist’s more regional take on the recent rally: http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2012/04/thaksin-cambodia?fsrc=scn/fb/wl/bl/newyearspartying
Thaksin’s freedom: The price of royalist-military dominance?
> “a ‘new analysis’ from pavin?”
Well, perhaps I know where you’re coming from anon. Thankfully his ‘analysis’ is a lot less regular on here these days. One piece published in 2012 was very poor and another was just dross. Aside from analysis or insight, good old fact-checking doesn’t really float his boat either.
When Thaksin comes home
Nick Nostitz: I don’t think the AFP reporter was just guesstimating – reading the “the crowd appeared closer to 10,000” quote makes it sound like they had the 30,000 figure in mind and they were disputing that figure with some confidence and with some emphasis. You seem to want to profess some kind of expertise with estimating crowd numbers and I skimmed over your long, repeated and tedious arguments in another thread. AFP are credible as far as I’m concerned. I’ve not come across another repetition of the 30,000 number – all the usual credible sources simply said ‘thousands’.
BTW why do you put my name in quotes?
What keeps you up at night?
[Vichai, I agree with you. Many nauseating incidents that need to be reported and investigated by some independent authority other than the police themselves, go unreported.]
What keeps me up at night is that the western academics at ANU and Columbia (being asked questions in this posting as well as other postings) are not themselves kept up at night wondering about their role in the very events they study, political events in Asia, especially with respect to education and poverty (also called reflexivity).
1. That they theorize about democracy and solving the problem of global poverty but do very little to make this a concrete reality using the means they have at their disposal.
2. That they are themselves not aware of their role in passively accepting the international academic status quo handed to them on a plate (money for degrees and class time, very large amounts of money, increasingly out of reach for almost everyone) and not fighting this and struggling with it.
In one posting, one venerable professor lauds the Asian countries for “sending them” higher quality, more open-minded students, completely unaware that he is an elite (aka Amat) educating fellow elites perpetuating a system of elitism.
2. Completely unaware, that for the most part it is rich parents sending rich children overseas to obtain the prestigious western degree that will set the child apart and put them in an elite echelon and perpetuate the child’s elite status that a poor person could only dream to enter, if they only knew that this was the way that things worked.
It doesn’t have to be this way.
3. Education and knowledge can be made largely a free good available to all in the public domain and poor people can be taught to self-educate.
4. Happy to say two innovative computer science professors (engineers) at my alma mater have seen the light, even though the academic institution itself tried hard to thwart their idea and effort, but this too will most likely change given time, the momentum is developing: The Stanford Education Experiment Could Change Higher Learning Forever (Wired, March 20, 2012)
When Thaksin comes home
Thaksin is just waiting for the King to die , and then he is home free .
Not rocket science really, just plain political intelligence .
Internationalising the Kachin war
Well KIO has ways better infrastructure than the current gov or ASSK group. In fact, Kachins do not need ASSK but ASSK might need Kachin if she really want to inform her So called national reconciliation. But ASSK is too afraid to speak up about Kachin or she has the same interest like Military Gov. We haven’t seen any goods come out from ASSK.
Double, double toil and trouble…
Grant Evans,
From what I can see there only seems to be one out and out supporter of the censorship of this film.
Many comments are critical of the makers of the film.
When Thaksin comes home
I’ve just posted a short piece on Asian Correspondent about the Thai English language media’s obsession with Thaksin.
It’s not really aimed at NM or posters here as I know both NM and the regulars here do a lot to broaden the debate.
“Is another oped about Thaksin imminent? http://bit.ly/HPRFDJ“
When Thaksin comes home
“Jon Wright”:
“Any idea why your estimate should diverge so markedly with the one made by the ‘AFP reporter at the scene’ (10,000)?”
No idea as AFP did not disclose their methodology of counting or identity of their reporter. Was it a stringer, local staff, or a reporter with extensive experience in large crowds?
I can only say that not many reporters and journalists were present, some Thai reporters of Thai publications i know and local Cambodian reporters, and only one from the usual Bangkok crowd.
Just because the label ‘AFP’ is attached does not make a number automatically accurate as human error or inexperience in such events can sway a number easily. That is why i always try to confirm numbers via different sources, and I have disclosed my sources here.
Yes, i do know that Red Shirts got into Angkor Wat for free. So did i, when i have shown my Press Pass from the rally to the entry check point. At the Angkor Wat event more reporters were present than during the rally the evening before. Still, it was mostly Thai reporters and local Cambodian reporters.
Most Bangkok based western reporters, i believe, were tired from their Burma trips, and went on a Songkran holiday.
Thailand’s Fearlessness: Free Akong
[…] contribution in recent years has not been his writing but his innovative lese majeste-focused Ah Kong fearlessness campaign. At the time, Pavin’s action was brave and much […]
Double, double toil and trouble…
Like almost everyone else, and for obvious reasons, I have not seen Shakepeare Must Die by Ing Kanjanavanit and Manit Sriwanichpoom.
However, it seems obvious to me that most of the commentators on NM so far have never ever read the original Macbeth.
For those who have, you may recall that the real bad guy is Lady Macbeth, the Queen. Hence, when I first heard about the ban I assumed it was the role of the Queen that was problematic. Now, I am simply confused.
The reason for the decision should be given.
Moreover, I find it deeply depressing that some contributors to NM can support this kind of censorship.
For another Asian version of Macbeth that was not censored I recommend to you all THRONE OF BLOOD by Akira Kurosawa made in 1957.