@ricefieldradio tweeted this earlier and I thought it was apt for this thread…
“It’s comical that the only people that don’t want Thaksin back are the PAD who won’t run in an election, Democrats who can’t win an election and some Farang that can’t vote in an election.”
@Vorawan – 82 wrote:
“The blogs the letters whatever…you know they are not from the Princes”
If you have read all the replies in this thread carefully, you would notice post #50 by Richard Lloys Parry which said this:
The letter is authentic. A ‘Times’ reporter confirmed this in an email exchange with the second son, Vacharaesorn, who works for a big law firm in New York State. An article on the subject can be read here:
Andrew Jackson extended the franchise to all White male voters while ethnically cleansing the southeast of the US of American Indians and did nothing to restrict slavery.
That being said, yeah it is a problem for Thein Sein, but also a problem for Aung San Suu Kyi.
Dear Greg Lopez,
Answer to Q1) I belief that use of Allah by Christians should be banned by the government. Christians have to refer their original manuscripts for the true name of their god. Changing Christian gods god’s name to Allah or Kadawalek or Tok Pek Kong is mischievous and a falsehood.
Why must Christians belief in falsehood.??? Why must Christians change their gods name.???
You Christians belif in you Preists more than you belief in your god of the Bible.!!!
If you have to use Allah as your god,you might as well use Allahs book(Quran) too.
Answer to Q2) Both Christians and corrupt Muslims are equally dangerous.
Appreciate your comment and interest. For many years now we have run occasional content on China — mostly on the south, especially Yunnan. The same can be said for northeast India, which has also been a sometime preoccupation.
This piece on Shanghai was too good to pass up and, as you mention, it has a clear link with its Southeast Asian authorship and its effort to deal with a range of issues of relevance to a Southeast Asian(ist) audience.
We have always taken our brief of “anecdote, analysis and new perspectives on mainland Southeast Asia” to be a very broad one. But I still doubt we’ll ever stretch to Japan.
The anti-Thaksin opposition is stuffed full of neo-fascists or those who will happily get into bed with neo-fascists. These neo-fascists groups are absolutely 100% opposed to any form of democracy and have repeatedly made that abundantly clear by a) putting forward plans to appoint parliament b) campaigning for a military coup to occur c) taking power via the direction intervention of the army rather than the electorate d) willingness to use lethal force to maintain that lack of democracy.
The makers of Shakespeare Must Die, who, rather curiously, said nothing about censorship at all during the 3years of Abhisit rule when the unelected Dem govt dragged Thailand towards a nadir on freedom of expression, are part of that opposition. Their reactionary politics need to be exposed and demolished. The censoring of their film helps them avoid that debate.
So, for the 3rd time – no the film should not be banned.
You raised the electoral mandate of the present government. I tried to explain a little bit about how parliamentary voting systems work as you suggested that they should only be considered as a choice between party a or party b. They are not referendums or presidential style elections. I also showed that if you applied the Thai general election results to the UK voting system Pheu Thai’s parliamentary majority would be much larger than it is in Thailand. A 48% vote in a general election is a huge mandate. In fact PT’s is one of the largest of any single party of government on earth.
Here’s some examples – Pheu Thai’s electoral mandate as a percentage of the vote is bigger than the ruling parliamentary parties in the UK, Germany, Sweden, Norway, Spain, France, Japan, Australia, India, Korea, New Zealand, Canada, Mexico, Denmark, Holland. The only single parties that I could find (admittedly I didn’t check every democracy on earth) that were more popularly mandated in a parliamentary/lower house legislative election were the ANC in South Africa and KMT in Taiwan.
Set in that context anyone questioning PT’s democratic mandate must therefore question pretty much every single democratically elected government on earth. In short, they must question the very guiding principles of a parliamentary democracy and democracy itself.
As for the minimum wage policy – another example – it took the UK two years to introduce such a policy after the 1997 election. Furthermore the idea that a minimum wage damages economies and competitiveness is not backed up any meaningful evidence. In fact, the contrary is much more likely true. If you take the top ten most competitive economies as listed by Bloomberg only one, Singapore, doesn’t have a minimum wage. If businesses can’t survive without exploiting their workforce to the point where 300thb a day is an issue then you could argue two things 1) are their owners too greedy? 2) are their businesses so badly managed that profits can only be achieved via exploitation?
The tablet issue – my view is that any government should take their time about getting into this kind of deal. I think a kindle/e-reader type device is a better bet than an iPad type device.
Banning the film is bad, yep, agree on that. But it’s not comparable in any legal system on earth to shooting nurses and kids with snipers.
The constitution needs to be reformed, 112 needs to be revoked, amnesties are very problematic. But, once again, comparing an amnesty for a land deal to that regarding the ordering of a massacre is nonsense. My view is that Thaksin should’ve come back and served jail time. But if he had done it would’ve only likely increased his popularity. So you should be happy he didn’t. Must easier to call him a “fugitive” than a “political prisoner”, no? I also think he genuinely feared for his life – and with good grounds as well.
This is bullshit. I hope people are not stupid enough to believe that it is real…not just the letter but everything. You WOULD keep in touch with your family no matter what. One way or another everyone would and thats just the logic itself.
The 4 princes have good lives and upbringing check out their educations and what they do. We are happy for them more than anything. Something is better left unsaid but there are those who are curious but too much of the curiosity creates one’s hobby and this seems to be it. Pictures are easy to find on the internet anyway. A friend of mine has a several on her facebook with one of the prince (makes sense since they went to the same law school) its no secret but most people just dont want to talk about it because well it’s none of our business, right?
The blogs the letters whatever…you know they are not from the Princes…I mean hello why now and not before? Good professional, highly educated men would not waste their valuable time doing this…in fact they have obviously moved and gotten on with their lives long before!
I just can’t imagine myself being the person that they are having that life and future going for them…would waste the time on posting letters and pictures hoping to get the attention that they never received for nearly 2 decades. Period.
Your post does not seem to be an actual response to mine.
Comparing what the results would mean in parliamentary seats in the UK does not seem to address the fact that 52% of the voters in 2012 did not choose Thaksin’s party in the party list election. It seems much more like a straw man to me.
I’m not clear if it is a retraction of the “95% of the opposition to Thaksin, prefer less democracy than more as the solution to what they see as the problem. and an admission that is nothing more than hyperbole.
I have no problem with results of the 2011 election and the fact that Thaksin’s proxy party won a majority in Parliament. I anxiously wait to see what they do with it.
So far, what I have seen is the passing of minimum wage that will likely impact the people it is meant to help the most, a tablet program for school children that cannot seem to get a signed contract in place less than a month before school is due to start, and what seems to be a primary focus on getting a stacked CDC setup that will include an amnesty for Thaksin as its priority.
Did I miss something?
Oh, yeah, banning a Shakespeare based film that could be taken as being anti-Shinawatra family.
Let’s see how the rest of the term goes, shall we?
Thanks for this, Olli and Martin. I just went to That Luang Neua temple (where many stupas of the old revolutionaries were located) and spoke to the abbot. Regarding the smashing of the stupa doors you were right Martin: The bones were taken out with the ritual presence of Buddhdist monks. The abbot deemed this absolutely necessary because “this disturbes the vinyan of the deceased which is still attached to the stupa”. So the rite involved an excuse for the disturbance and an invitation to the new place.
According to the abbot the stupas have already been completely knocked down this week. I think the stupa itself only maintains its status as a memorial when the bones are in there – so a bone stupa without bones is just a thing to tear down and replace with something new.
You suggest that Christians are a threat to Muslims in Malaysia. I find this an extraordinary claim.
(1) Can you explain how is this possible (e.g. Muslims are the majority, Muslims are protected in the Constitution, Muslims control all arms of government, Muslims control all strategic businesses, Muslims control all use of force – legitimate and otherwise, etc)
(2) If you maintain that Christians are a threat, what would you consider to be a greater threat to Islam in Malaysia – Christians or corrupt Muslim leaders?
There are certain rules in registering for copyright. If the word has been proven to have been used by others, you cannot get it. Reading from Wikipedia and other sources, Allah and similar derivative words have been in usage long before the Islamic era. You would not be able to copyright it, least of all, to sue. Please accept the situation and just preach the difference to your adherents.
Why can we not call God our Father in heaven or any name which has been passed down through translations and other means? It is just another term. My son used to call me Papa when small. In his teenage years, he called me Pa. As an adult, he now calls me Dad. He could even called me Adam and I will not mind. Your children may call you Bapa, Ayah, Abah or even Pak Yeh and you should not mind too as long as they respect and love you.
Btw, Ali Sina is no prophet but he has in fact written a book on “Understanding Muhammad – A Psychobiography of Allah’s Prophet”. It would be interesting if I could get to read it but it is definitely banned in Malaysia and all Islamic countries.
My personal opinion is that Islam has to undergo reformation as Christianity has gone through in the 16th century to what it is today. I pray that Islam does not have to go through the dark period in the history of the Church for reformation to take place. I, therefore, support the efforts made by the Islamic Renaissance Front, SIS and others in doing it from within and through peaceful means. Hope you are giving your support too.
Wonderful and very interesting post, but I can’t help but wonder what this article has to do with mainland Southeast Asia (other than the author being from Thailand)?
Will New Mandala be extending its geographic range of interest to include China now? India or Japan?
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10 April 2010
@ricefieldradio tweeted this earlier and I thought it was apt for this thread…
“It’s comical that the only people that don’t want Thaksin back are the PAD who won’t run in an election, Democrats who can’t win an election and some Farang that can’t vote in an election.”
Crown Prince’s family update?
@Vorawan – 82 wrote:
“The blogs the letters whatever…you know they are not from the Princes”
If you have read all the replies in this thread carefully, you would notice post #50 by Richard Lloys Parry which said this:
The letter is authentic. A ‘Times’ reporter confirmed this in an email exchange with the second son, Vacharaesorn, who works for a big law firm in New York State. An article on the subject can be read here:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/asia/article3115503.ece
—
I hope the above confirmation is clear. Have a good day.
Internationalising the Kachin war
Andrew Jackson extended the franchise to all White male voters while ethnically cleansing the southeast of the US of American Indians and did nothing to restrict slavery.
That being said, yeah it is a problem for Thein Sein, but also a problem for Aung San Suu Kyi.
Apostasy in Malaysia: The hidden view
[…] article was first published at New Mandela on 10 November 2011. Photo courtesy of Ashgive.com Tags: Apostasy, PAS, […]
Islamic fundamentalists, Christian threats, Freudian slips
Dear Adam,
To reply to changing of gods name, refer to my reply to Greg Lopez.
For your information, there is no death penalty for apostates according to the Quran. Muslim jurist imported the Bible Old Testament Law via the hadis. The hudud/syariah Law is i,ported from the Bible.
Refer my article..
http://warongpakyeh.blogspot.com/2011/09/ya-man-pope-used-hudud-law-too.html
Hence I am a liberal Muslim who disagree with death penalty for apostates.
I belief that all religions are corruptible and have been corrupted.You should be aware of the devils plan to lead astray all true religions and their adherents.The devil is often in disguise as the priests and politicians.
Read my article..
1) http://warongpakyeh.blogspot.com/2008/11/hardying-and-softyang-of-islamic-law.html
2) http://warongpakyeh.blogspot.com/2009/06/christian-dogmas-debated.html
Islamic fundamentalists, Christian threats, Freudian slips
Dear Greg Lopez,
Answer to Q1) I belief that use of Allah by Christians should be banned by the government. Christians have to refer their original manuscripts for the true name of their god. Changing Christian gods god’s name to Allah or Kadawalek or Tok Pek Kong is mischievous and a falsehood.
Why must Christians belief in falsehood.??? Why must Christians change their gods name.???
You Christians belif in you Preists more than you belief in your god of the Bible.!!!
If you have to use Allah as your god,you might as well use Allahs book(Quran) too.
Answer to Q2) Both Christians and corrupt Muslims are equally dangerous.
Placing Shanghai
Thanks Steve,
Appreciate your comment and interest. For many years now we have run occasional content on China — mostly on the south, especially Yunnan. The same can be said for northeast India, which has also been a sometime preoccupation.
This piece on Shanghai was too good to pass up and, as you mention, it has a clear link with its Southeast Asian authorship and its effort to deal with a range of issues of relevance to a Southeast Asian(ist) audience.
We have always taken our brief of “anecdote, analysis and new perspectives on mainland Southeast Asia” to be a very broad one. But I still doubt we’ll ever stretch to Japan.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
Revolutionary remains
Thank you for this elucidation, Patrice!
3,000 dead Burmese soldiers?
plan B,
A sentiment (do I read government?) that has hold neither logic nor compassion towards the humanity.
Nah…. you’d be too upset.
Double, double toil and trouble…
John Smith
Nope, no retraction.
The anti-Thaksin opposition is stuffed full of neo-fascists or those who will happily get into bed with neo-fascists. These neo-fascists groups are absolutely 100% opposed to any form of democracy and have repeatedly made that abundantly clear by a) putting forward plans to appoint parliament b) campaigning for a military coup to occur c) taking power via the direction intervention of the army rather than the electorate d) willingness to use lethal force to maintain that lack of democracy.
The makers of Shakespeare Must Die, who, rather curiously, said nothing about censorship at all during the 3years of Abhisit rule when the unelected Dem govt dragged Thailand towards a nadir on freedom of expression, are part of that opposition. Their reactionary politics need to be exposed and demolished. The censoring of their film helps them avoid that debate.
So, for the 3rd time – no the film should not be banned.
You raised the electoral mandate of the present government. I tried to explain a little bit about how parliamentary voting systems work as you suggested that they should only be considered as a choice between party a or party b. They are not referendums or presidential style elections. I also showed that if you applied the Thai general election results to the UK voting system Pheu Thai’s parliamentary majority would be much larger than it is in Thailand. A 48% vote in a general election is a huge mandate. In fact PT’s is one of the largest of any single party of government on earth.
Here’s some examples – Pheu Thai’s electoral mandate as a percentage of the vote is bigger than the ruling parliamentary parties in the UK, Germany, Sweden, Norway, Spain, France, Japan, Australia, India, Korea, New Zealand, Canada, Mexico, Denmark, Holland. The only single parties that I could find (admittedly I didn’t check every democracy on earth) that were more popularly mandated in a parliamentary/lower house legislative election were the ANC in South Africa and KMT in Taiwan.
Set in that context anyone questioning PT’s democratic mandate must therefore question pretty much every single democratically elected government on earth. In short, they must question the very guiding principles of a parliamentary democracy and democracy itself.
As for the minimum wage policy – another example – it took the UK two years to introduce such a policy after the 1997 election. Furthermore the idea that a minimum wage damages economies and competitiveness is not backed up any meaningful evidence. In fact, the contrary is much more likely true. If you take the top ten most competitive economies as listed by Bloomberg only one, Singapore, doesn’t have a minimum wage. If businesses can’t survive without exploiting their workforce to the point where 300thb a day is an issue then you could argue two things 1) are their owners too greedy? 2) are their businesses so badly managed that profits can only be achieved via exploitation?
The tablet issue – my view is that any government should take their time about getting into this kind of deal. I think a kindle/e-reader type device is a better bet than an iPad type device.
Banning the film is bad, yep, agree on that. But it’s not comparable in any legal system on earth to shooting nurses and kids with snipers.
The constitution needs to be reformed, 112 needs to be revoked, amnesties are very problematic. But, once again, comparing an amnesty for a land deal to that regarding the ordering of a massacre is nonsense. My view is that Thaksin should’ve come back and served jail time. But if he had done it would’ve only likely increased his popularity. So you should be happy he didn’t. Must easier to call him a “fugitive” than a “political prisoner”, no? I also think he genuinely feared for his life – and with good grounds as well.
Enjoy your day “John”.
Critical review of King Bhumibol’s life
🙂
Crown Prince’s family update?
This is bullshit. I hope people are not stupid enough to believe that it is real…not just the letter but everything. You WOULD keep in touch with your family no matter what. One way or another everyone would and thats just the logic itself.
The 4 princes have good lives and upbringing check out their educations and what they do. We are happy for them more than anything. Something is better left unsaid but there are those who are curious but too much of the curiosity creates one’s hobby and this seems to be it. Pictures are easy to find on the internet anyway. A friend of mine has a several on her facebook with one of the prince (makes sense since they went to the same law school) its no secret but most people just dont want to talk about it because well it’s none of our business, right?
The blogs the letters whatever…you know they are not from the Princes…I mean hello why now and not before? Good professional, highly educated men would not waste their valuable time doing this…in fact they have obviously moved and gotten on with their lives long before!
I just can’t imagine myself being the person that they are having that life and future going for them…would waste the time on posting letters and pictures hoping to get the attention that they never received for nearly 2 decades. Period.
Double, double toil and trouble…
Andrew #14
Your post does not seem to be an actual response to mine.
Comparing what the results would mean in parliamentary seats in the UK does not seem to address the fact that 52% of the voters in 2012 did not choose Thaksin’s party in the party list election. It seems much more like a straw man to me.
I’m not clear if it is a retraction of the “95% of the opposition to Thaksin, prefer less democracy than more as the solution to what they see as the problem. and an admission that is nothing more than hyperbole.
I have no problem with results of the 2011 election and the fact that Thaksin’s proxy party won a majority in Parliament. I anxiously wait to see what they do with it.
So far, what I have seen is the passing of minimum wage that will likely impact the people it is meant to help the most, a tablet program for school children that cannot seem to get a signed contract in place less than a month before school is due to start, and what seems to be a primary focus on getting a stacked CDC setup that will include an amnesty for Thaksin as its priority.
Did I miss something?
Oh, yeah, banning a Shakespeare based film that could be taken as being anti-Shinawatra family.
Let’s see how the rest of the term goes, shall we?
10 April 2010
CT # *
I am willing to wait until I see all Royalists who claim themselves as educated as clever worship her and prostrate her feet
That indeed will be interesting should it occur.
Revolutionary remains
Thanks for this, Olli and Martin. I just went to That Luang Neua temple (where many stupas of the old revolutionaries were located) and spoke to the abbot. Regarding the smashing of the stupa doors you were right Martin: The bones were taken out with the ritual presence of Buddhdist monks. The abbot deemed this absolutely necessary because “this disturbes the vinyan of the deceased which is still attached to the stupa”. So the rite involved an excuse for the disturbance and an invitation to the new place.
According to the abbot the stupas have already been completely knocked down this week. I think the stupa itself only maintains its status as a memorial when the bones are in there – so a bone stupa without bones is just a thing to tear down and replace with something new.
Islamic fundamentalists, Christian threats, Freudian slips
Pak Yeh,
You suggest that Christians are a threat to Muslims in Malaysia. I find this an extraordinary claim.
(1) Can you explain how is this possible (e.g. Muslims are the majority, Muslims are protected in the Constitution, Muslims control all arms of government, Muslims control all strategic businesses, Muslims control all use of force – legitimate and otherwise, etc)
(2) If you maintain that Christians are a threat, what would you consider to be a greater threat to Islam in Malaysia – Christians or corrupt Muslim leaders?
Islamic fundamentalists, Christian threats, Freudian slips
Dear Pak Yeh # 9,
There are certain rules in registering for copyright. If the word has been proven to have been used by others, you cannot get it. Reading from Wikipedia and other sources, Allah and similar derivative words have been in usage long before the Islamic era. You would not be able to copyright it, least of all, to sue. Please accept the situation and just preach the difference to your adherents.
Why can we not call God our Father in heaven or any name which has been passed down through translations and other means? It is just another term. My son used to call me Papa when small. In his teenage years, he called me Pa. As an adult, he now calls me Dad. He could even called me Adam and I will not mind. Your children may call you Bapa, Ayah, Abah or even Pak Yeh and you should not mind too as long as they respect and love you.
Btw, Ali Sina is no prophet but he has in fact written a book on “Understanding Muhammad – A Psychobiography of Allah’s Prophet”. It would be interesting if I could get to read it but it is definitely banned in Malaysia and all Islamic countries.
My personal opinion is that Islam has to undergo reformation as Christianity has gone through in the 16th century to what it is today. I pray that Islam does not have to go through the dark period in the history of the Church for reformation to take place. I, therefore, support the efforts made by the Islamic Renaissance Front, SIS and others in doing it from within and through peaceful means. Hope you are giving your support too.
Peace to all mankind.
Critical review of King Bhumibol’s life
@53
Never got over Marvin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzPA-FrVu3I&feature=fvwrel
Critical review of King Bhumibol’s life
Maratjp #52
You seem to be a very soulful chap…
Placing Shanghai
Wonderful and very interesting post, but I can’t help but wonder what this article has to do with mainland Southeast Asia (other than the author being from Thailand)?
Will New Mandala be extending its geographic range of interest to include China now? India or Japan?