This is a Thai dam, not a Lao dam. Thais want to finance it, build it, manage it, and use 95% of the electricity. Thais own 80% of the project the Lao government 20%. I’d imagine that 20% would be impounded within the Lao politburo itself. The Lao politicians like the juice. They’re selling out their countrymen on every conceivable front.
What’s needed is the recognition that countries cannot build dams on international rivers without the consent of the people, not the corrupt governments, in all the countries affected.
That level of cooperation needs to be made explicit, first, before it can be struggled for and attained.
For all the bashing that Thailand’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs is getting from this New Mandala thread, we must not lose sight that this year 2011 at least, it was this ministry that shone the brightest.
Because the only ministry that was able to deliver actual measurable results for the Yingluck administration was Thailand’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs. All other ministry had failed and failed miserably . . . to deliver on Yingluck’s campaign promises.
But the Minister of Foreign Affairs delivered . . . a Thai passport for Thaksin Shinawatra. That by the way, is the only achievement of the Yingluck administration in Y2011.
Where is the rifinement? Where is clarity? The author perhaps wants to assert that punishment for apostasy is no hindrance in provision of human rights! How is that, how can human rights be complete without freedom of conscience? I am sorry to say, but I must, that the author has justified the allegation,” supremacist” when he pushes the point that followers of other religions may have the absolute freedom of religion but not followers of Islam. sorry, a pathetic attempt, no points proven.
I am amazed of how North Korean soldiers can lift their feet so high when they walk. When I saw the video, I felt kinda fun so I tried to mimic those walkings. Hell, I then realise that was difficult! I couldn’t lift my feet that high and that straight!!
Not that it is a skill I would really care about if I don’t have, though :p
Sam…
Not only that but the Thai’s own view of history would be seen as being very distorted by their Asian neighgbours as well as by the west.
Thai students learn about ancient battles with Burma and the Khmers, and memorise names of Kings and kingdoms. They don’t (or didn’t at the high school in Nan where I taught in 2008-9…. I don’t know what the syllabus of the school in BKK where the red house decided to spend a day dressed as ‘Nazis’ was like…) study about ‘recent’ 20th century events like WW2, the cold war (and the way it was played out in the region in Korea/Vnam/Laos…) and the Khmer Rouge… the things that we in the west would probably see as being some of the more important events of that era.
The most a former student in Nan knew about Thailands involvement in WW2 was that the Japanese were ‘invited’ to build a railway there (I guess this fits in with the popular narrative that ‘Thailand was never colonised’ etc etc….)
It would be easy to start a huge, off topic rant here about one of the the big failing of the Thai education system, the way that Thai students aren’t taught/encouraged to analyse / think critically about the materials/topics they study in class etc etc etc… but I won’t..
One time I took the sunday morning tourist train to Sai Yok / Kanchanaburi. On the way back the train stops at a small station 10 minutes walk away from one of the cemetries where some of the allied POWs and people who died building the infamous death railway are buried. I remember hearing one Thai girl ask someone why the ‘farang’ soldiers chose to be buried there???
At times people’s ignorance of world events is shocking… I know this isn’t restricted to Thailand (most of my English friends aren’t that interested in current affairs/history…) but what’s different is the way that some Thai people seem to take such pride their insular outlook/ignorance… Its almost like they see it as a key part of what makes them ‘Thai…’
Sometimes Thai teachers know little more about world events/history/ politics etc. than the students that they teach.
It’s probably more than just sometimes. In “The Ambiguous Allure of the West” Thongchai Winichakul informs us that:
Thai scholarship is overwhelmed by local as opposed to global discourses…In Thai schools and universities Thai people learn more and become much better informed about Thai arts, literature and Buddhism than they do about the religions and cultures of the West, or even of their Asian neighbours…
Thais do not read the world’s (i.e. “Western”) literary canons as much as they do those of Thai literature; and they do not learn of anyone else’s history other than their own.
What courses to these guys take at the Thai Military Academy that leads them to believe what they believe? Maybe the 1st step to reforming the general group in Thailand is reforming the curriculum at the Thai Military Academy.
Perhaps some New Mandala readers have suggestions for new courses to be introduced to replace:
TMA 107 – “How to Organise a Coup D’Etat in Ten Easy Steps”
TMA 215 – “Managing Trafficking Networks for the Maximum Return”
TMA 116 – “Leveraging Private Security for Personal Gain”
TMA 143 – “Supply Side Structures in the Provision of Illegal Substances”
TMA 224 – “Desire Fulfillment, a New Look at the Commercial Sex Industry”
TMA 323 – “The Art of Public Speaking in Order to Influence and Coerce”
Cult (or the Reds) of Thaksin not as celebratory, even as Beloved Leader Thaksin got his passport back (wow!) . . . because the Reds are still soggy wet from Yingluck’s flood disaster blunders.
Whether what the US Courts have done is justifiable or not will remain a moot point. I have not read those cases. I do not know all the facts. Thus I cannot comment whether the outcome is justified or not.
The point I would like to make, however, is “Can anyone, be a scholar or a layperson, critique these decisions? Can they seek all the information regarding what has been said, analyse it, comment on it?
The answer is they can.
-Can they analyse the Court’s reasoning behind the outcome publicly, repeating verbatim of what has been said without any fear of being arrested?
The answer is they can.
-Will the society condemn them if they critique these decisions?
Not likely.
-Will these people feel threatened for being outspoken?
Not likely.
-Will there be anyone who witchhunts them, exposes them, embarrasses them, tell them to leave the country, threaten to kill them, swear at them, harass them, fire them from workplaces?
Not likely. But even if there is, they will be able to seek state protection. They will be able to take legal action against people who threaten them, witchhunt them, harass them, or fire them from workplaces.
As for lese majeste cases, can anyone, be a scholar or a layperson, critique these decisions?
Can they seek full information about what has been said?
Can they repeat verbatim of what has been said?
Will the society condemn them if they criticise these decision?
Will these people feel threatened for being outspoken?
More importantly,
Will there be anyone who witchhunts them, exposes them, embarrasses them, tell them to leave the country, threaten to kill them, swear at them, harass them, fire them from workplaces?
And most importantly,
If the answer to the previous question is “yes”, can these people seek state protection or take legal actions against those who harass them, fire them from workplaces, threaten them, or tell them to leave the country? All of these are blatant discrimination based on political opinion according to the International Law.
The point I am trying to make is: the Courts can be wrong. But can you, as a citizen, point the finger to them saying the decision is wrong, explain to them why you think it is wrong, without any fear of prosecution or harassment?
The answer in is, in the USA you can. Can you do this in Thailand?
Quote: “Thailand does not consider Buddhism or any other religion an official state religion.”
Unquote.
I would argue the opposite by offering, “Thailand does not officially recognize Buddhism as its official state religion, but has legislated that its head of State be Buddhist and that the people generally are inculcated with the concept that they are Buddhist, or taken care of by Buddhists, and of course, never mistreated by Buddhists. Thai Buddhists. Real Thai Buddhists. Real Thais who are Buddhist.”
That Thai state agencies have taken over official Buddhism is another non-sequencer.
General Prayuth, bless his heart, during a 20 December 2011 televised interview, said of Article 112: closely paraphrasing, “I don’t really want to speak too much about this. I am concerned with maintaining security and order. I am not going to comment on Article 112. And I am not sure why some others do. Don’t forget – we are a democracy. But let’s not go overboard.”
“Thailand does not consider Buddhism or any other religion an official state religion.”
True enough, and a good thing for any religion, spiritual practice or the like. None could ever be on equal footing with Thailand’s true religion. The world’s competing fairy tales – whether mono-, poly- or non-theistic – are in no way up to the mark when it comes to producing the kind of vacuous adoration and slack-jawed fealty that monarchism has proved so supremely adept.
Thailand’s mullahs of monarchy have the nation’s spiritual dimension well sorted and in fine fettle, thank you very much. Anything going on in those temples, mosques and churches is but a parlor game by comparison.
I see. Maybe it is credible. Yet, at the same time, you don’t get banned for insulting anyone in the United States. Maybe the young man seriously threatened Obama, the reporting may blow it out of proportion (it does not specify what was said), or maybe his home police/authorities banned him.
Upon looking further, the comments tend to suggest still this article was originally written up by The Sun:
“Did anybody notice that this kid only talked to the “SUN” that’s like reporting breaking news to the Inquirer or NY POST, or MAD magazine. ”
And
“Clearly this article is with a bit of spin.. The SUN is the only paper he’s spoken to.”
I have never heard this story until you pointed it out to me. I never heard of it.
Again, you don’t get banned for insulting a head of state, or any head of state, in America. Obama is a prick. There, I said it. I’m not going to jail for it.
Well, I’m sure at least the FBI or homeland security will be checking this page out because of that comment. Hope they don’t come kicking down my door, I have an exam in a few hours.
Presumably it is the job of the MFA to represent Thailand on the world stage. Thailand cannot have it both ways. If it wants to be a global player then sooner or later it will have to accommodate to international norms.
For example, take the case of the Chiranuch trial which I recently attended. Apart from the rights and wrongs of the case as a whole, it is the specifics of the court procedure which bear scrutiny and wider publicity.
There are no juries in the Thai judicial system , for a start. There is no such thing as a court transcript, the judge instead summarising into a Dictaphone what s/he thinks is relevant at periodic junctures. This is what is typed up.
Witnesses address the judge with their backs to the public. Furthermore, the judge presiding over the case is not alone in coming to a verdict: a committee of judges behind the scenes meet to make the final decision. Some of these judges have been only tangentially involved in the case, if at all.
And just further to my previous post, Darunee has been convicted again on the basis of codes.
“Daranee’s mention of ‘yellow and blue collars’ and ‘Jitrlada bottled drinking water’ in her speech on 7 June 2008, ‘although not naming any particular names, was a symbolic message insinuating that Their Majesties the King and Queen supported the People’s Alliance for Democracy, which was a verbal offence against Their Majesties,’ the court said.”
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Beneath the surface bonhomie of Mekong multilateralism
This is a Thai dam, not a Lao dam. Thais want to finance it, build it, manage it, and use 95% of the electricity. Thais own 80% of the project the Lao government 20%. I’d imagine that 20% would be impounded within the Lao politburo itself. The Lao politicians like the juice. They’re selling out their countrymen on every conceivable front.
What’s needed is the recognition that countries cannot build dams on international rivers without the consent of the people, not the corrupt governments, in all the countries affected.
That level of cooperation needs to be made explicit, first, before it can be struggled for and attained.
Thailand’s high calibre Ministry of Foreign Affairs
For all the bashing that Thailand’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs is getting from this New Mandala thread, we must not lose sight that this year 2011 at least, it was this ministry that shone the brightest.
Because the only ministry that was able to deliver actual measurable results for the Yingluck administration was Thailand’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs. All other ministry had failed and failed miserably . . . to deliver on Yingluck’s campaign promises.
But the Minister of Foreign Affairs delivered . . . a Thai passport for Thaksin Shinawatra. That by the way, is the only achievement of the Yingluck administration in Y2011.
Prayuth’s dream
Thanks, р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕лр╕вр╕▒р╕Ф, for bringing this ‘funny’ exercise back down to earth.
Refining the misconception of apostasy in Islam
Where is the rifinement? Where is clarity? The author perhaps wants to assert that punishment for apostasy is no hindrance in provision of human rights! How is that, how can human rights be complete without freedom of conscience? I am sorry to say, but I must, that the author has justified the allegation,” supremacist” when he pushes the point that followers of other religions may have the absolute freedom of religion but not followers of Islam. sorry, a pathetic attempt, no points proven.
Prayuth’s dream
I am amazed of how North Korean soldiers can lift their feet so high when they walk. When I saw the video, I felt kinda fun so I tried to mimic those walkings. Hell, I then realise that was difficult! I couldn’t lift my feet that high and that straight!!
Not that it is a skill I would really care about if I don’t have, though :p
Thailand’s high calibre Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Sam…
Not only that but the Thai’s own view of history would be seen as being very distorted by their Asian neighgbours as well as by the west.
Thai students learn about ancient battles with Burma and the Khmers, and memorise names of Kings and kingdoms. They don’t (or didn’t at the high school in Nan where I taught in 2008-9…. I don’t know what the syllabus of the school in BKK where the red house decided to spend a day dressed as ‘Nazis’ was like…) study about ‘recent’ 20th century events like WW2, the cold war (and the way it was played out in the region in Korea/Vnam/Laos…) and the Khmer Rouge… the things that we in the west would probably see as being some of the more important events of that era.
The most a former student in Nan knew about Thailands involvement in WW2 was that the Japanese were ‘invited’ to build a railway there (I guess this fits in with the popular narrative that ‘Thailand was never colonised’ etc etc….)
It would be easy to start a huge, off topic rant here about one of the the big failing of the Thai education system, the way that Thai students aren’t taught/encouraged to analyse / think critically about the materials/topics they study in class etc etc etc… but I won’t..
One time I took the sunday morning tourist train to Sai Yok / Kanchanaburi. On the way back the train stops at a small station 10 minutes walk away from one of the cemetries where some of the allied POWs and people who died building the infamous death railway are buried. I remember hearing one Thai girl ask someone why the ‘farang’ soldiers chose to be buried there???
At times people’s ignorance of world events is shocking… I know this isn’t restricted to Thailand (most of my English friends aren’t that interested in current affairs/history…) but what’s different is the way that some Thai people seem to take such pride their insular outlook/ignorance… Its almost like they see it as a key part of what makes them ‘Thai…’
Thailand’s high calibre Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Kerrie – 18
Sometimes Thai teachers know little more about world events/history/ politics etc. than the students that they teach.
It’s probably more than just sometimes. In “The Ambiguous Allure of the West” Thongchai Winichakul informs us that:
Thai scholarship is overwhelmed by local as opposed to global discourses…In Thai schools and universities Thai people learn more and become much better informed about Thai arts, literature and Buddhism than they do about the religions and cultures of the West, or even of their Asian neighbours…
Thais do not read the world’s (i.e. “Western”) literary canons as much as they do those of Thai literature; and they do not learn of anyone else’s history other than their own.
Prayuth’s dream
More like Prayuth’s “wet dream”.
What courses to these guys take at the Thai Military Academy that leads them to believe what they believe? Maybe the 1st step to reforming the general group in Thailand is reforming the curriculum at the Thai Military Academy.
Perhaps some New Mandala readers have suggestions for new courses to be introduced to replace:
TMA 107 – “How to Organise a Coup D’Etat in Ten Easy Steps”
TMA 215 – “Managing Trafficking Networks for the Maximum Return”
TMA 116 – “Leveraging Private Security for Personal Gain”
TMA 143 – “Supply Side Structures in the Provision of Illegal Substances”
TMA 224 – “Desire Fulfillment, a New Look at the Commercial Sex Industry”
TMA 323 – “The Art of Public Speaking in Order to Influence and Coerce”
Prayuth’s dream
Cult of Kim celebrates!
Cult (or the Reds) of Thaksin not as celebratory, even as Beloved Leader Thaksin got his passport back (wow!) . . . because the Reds are still soggy wet from Yingluck’s flood disaster blunders.
Prayuth’s dream
Thumbs up if you too are coyote dancing alone to this in your room, imagining our dear leader’s son.
Sabai sabai
Thailand’s high calibre Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Can I add my two cents?
Whether what the US Courts have done is justifiable or not will remain a moot point. I have not read those cases. I do not know all the facts. Thus I cannot comment whether the outcome is justified or not.
The point I would like to make, however, is “Can anyone, be a scholar or a layperson, critique these decisions? Can they seek all the information regarding what has been said, analyse it, comment on it?
The answer is they can.
-Can they analyse the Court’s reasoning behind the outcome publicly, repeating verbatim of what has been said without any fear of being arrested?
The answer is they can.
-Will the society condemn them if they critique these decisions?
Not likely.
-Will these people feel threatened for being outspoken?
Not likely.
-Will there be anyone who witchhunts them, exposes them, embarrasses them, tell them to leave the country, threaten to kill them, swear at them, harass them, fire them from workplaces?
Not likely. But even if there is, they will be able to seek state protection. They will be able to take legal action against people who threaten them, witchhunt them, harass them, or fire them from workplaces.
As for lese majeste cases, can anyone, be a scholar or a layperson, critique these decisions?
Can they seek full information about what has been said?
Can they repeat verbatim of what has been said?
Will the society condemn them if they criticise these decision?
Will these people feel threatened for being outspoken?
More importantly,
Will there be anyone who witchhunts them, exposes them, embarrasses them, tell them to leave the country, threaten to kill them, swear at them, harass them, fire them from workplaces?
And most importantly,
If the answer to the previous question is “yes”, can these people seek state protection or take legal actions against those who harass them, fire them from workplaces, threaten them, or tell them to leave the country? All of these are blatant discrimination based on political opinion according to the International Law.
The point I am trying to make is: the Courts can be wrong. But can you, as a citizen, point the finger to them saying the decision is wrong, explain to them why you think it is wrong, without any fear of prosecution or harassment?
The answer in is, in the USA you can. Can you do this in Thailand?
Prayuth’s dream
Rock party anthem is so outdated. K-Pop reigns today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vr6Y78zesQ
Prayuth’s dream
Those generals may have such a dream.
But the reality usually turns out to be like this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQCHmcoNW8k
The power of Singlish
Most coherent article ever published on New Mandala. Well done.
Another academic victim of 112
Quote: “Thailand does not consider Buddhism or any other religion an official state religion.”
Unquote.
I would argue the opposite by offering, “Thailand does not officially recognize Buddhism as its official state religion, but has legislated that its head of State be Buddhist and that the people generally are inculcated with the concept that they are Buddhist, or taken care of by Buddhists, and of course, never mistreated by Buddhists. Thai Buddhists. Real Thai Buddhists. Real Thais who are Buddhist.”
That Thai state agencies have taken over official Buddhism is another non-sequencer.
Nitirat: monarchy, constitution and democracy
General Prayuth, bless his heart, during a 20 December 2011 televised interview, said of Article 112: closely paraphrasing, “I don’t really want to speak too much about this. I am concerned with maintaining security and order. I am not going to comment on Article 112. And I am not sure why some others do. Don’t forget – we are a democracy. But let’s not go overboard.”
Another academic victim of 112
Josh Turnpike in post number 35 writes:
“Thailand does not consider Buddhism or any other religion an official state religion.”
True enough, and a good thing for any religion, spiritual practice or the like. None could ever be on equal footing with Thailand’s true religion. The world’s competing fairy tales – whether mono-, poly- or non-theistic – are in no way up to the mark when it comes to producing the kind of vacuous adoration and slack-jawed fealty that monarchism has proved so supremely adept.
Thailand’s mullahs of monarchy have the nation’s spiritual dimension well sorted and in fine fettle, thank you very much. Anything going on in those temples, mosques and churches is but a parlor game by comparison.
Thailand’s high calibre Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Nawat – 13
I see. Maybe it is credible. Yet, at the same time, you don’t get banned for insulting anyone in the United States. Maybe the young man seriously threatened Obama, the reporting may blow it out of proportion (it does not specify what was said), or maybe his home police/authorities banned him.
Upon looking further, the comments tend to suggest still this article was originally written up by The Sun:
“Did anybody notice that this kid only talked to the “SUN” that’s like reporting breaking news to the Inquirer or NY POST, or MAD magazine. ”
And
“Clearly this article is with a bit of spin.. The SUN is the only paper he’s spoken to.”
http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/15726177#CommentKey:d2ba0458-08f8-43c3-9bd1-3874322d4497
I have never heard this story until you pointed it out to me. I never heard of it.
Again, you don’t get banned for insulting a head of state, or any head of state, in America. Obama is a prick. There, I said it. I’m not going to jail for it.
Well, I’m sure at least the FBI or homeland security will be checking this page out because of that comment. Hope they don’t come kicking down my door, I have an exam in a few hours.
Thailand’s high calibre Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Presumably it is the job of the MFA to represent Thailand on the world stage. Thailand cannot have it both ways. If it wants to be a global player then sooner or later it will have to accommodate to international norms.
For example, take the case of the Chiranuch trial which I recently attended. Apart from the rights and wrongs of the case as a whole, it is the specifics of the court procedure which bear scrutiny and wider publicity.
There are no juries in the Thai judicial system , for a start. There is no such thing as a court transcript, the judge instead summarising into a Dictaphone what s/he thinks is relevant at periodic junctures. This is what is typed up.
Witnesses address the judge with their backs to the public. Furthermore, the judge presiding over the case is not alone in coming to a verdict: a committee of judges behind the scenes meet to make the final decision. Some of these judges have been only tangentially involved in the case, if at all.
Thailand’s high calibre Ministry of Foreign Affairs
And just further to my previous post, Darunee has been convicted again on the basis of codes.
“Daranee’s mention of ‘yellow and blue collars’ and ‘Jitrlada bottled drinking water’ in her speech on 7 June 2008, ‘although not naming any particular names, was a symbolic message insinuating that Their Majesties the King and Queen supported the People’s Alliance for Democracy, which was a verbal offence against Their Majesties,’ the court said.”
http://www.prachatai3.info/english/node/2950