If you out of goodness smile when giving comfort/care/help, to someone in a dire situation; this only brigs comfort to them! Rememember these people, many working for no pay, are tired, but happy to be of help! What a rediculous comment critizicing people sharing a smile!… By the way: I have never seen so many smiles from un armed police, and military, as now. It does send out a message, doesen’t it?
Yes, but its not only about PR but also about QC. The labeling also ensured that the donated essentials have been screen before given out this is something that not many people think of. If you open the bag and found rotten canned fish, you will know immediately who is responsible for it.
Maybe I’m missing the point here, but isn’t labeling aid what makes the world of humanitarian aid organisations and in some cases the governments they represent (i.e. USAID) go round? Giving aid to the needy is the most effective way to win the hearts and minds … you don’t need to be called Thaksin Shinawtra or be a princess for that matter to understand this principle which is not sole to Thailand..
For those with access to TKNS and might check, I seem to recall that Handley spent considerable time detailing how the monarchy turns donations from others into their own and multiplies merit from it.
The current government has made multiple donations for flood victims via royal charities, with #13 above being one example.
On donations in general, in addition to companies spending huge amounts on PR that extols their relief donations (e.g. True, CP), the army has been big on making sure that their efforts are acknowledged and their trucks say where they are from. All of the royal donations are clearly marked and the palaver associated with them is leaves no doubt. There seems considerable bias in who is criticised on this score.
One clue to this practice may be that labelling donations is deeply embedded in Thai Buddhist culture when making merit. Inscriptions of donors’ names are found at the earliest Indian Buddhist archaeological sites and the practice is equally widespread at Thai Buddhist sites. This of course takes nothing away from the basic principle that a donor should only attach their name to a donation that they themselves have made!
John Smith – have you seen the link provided in the article ‘with love and care from Thaksin Shinawatra’ – food packages with this were distributed by FROC.
The banner on the truck may just have been a passionate Thaksinitte volunteer – which is fair enough, but the design which has gone into the logo on the food package would have required a lot more time and money to create. Seems suspicious to me.
The labels from Chula were being attached to things donated from the public. The foundation have been coordinating the distribution, and perhaps donating some of the items.
Thaksin and his cronies are self-serving scoundrels. No one in their right mind would use the name of a high status person to label a gift, or a project, or a road, or a park, or a dam, or a boat, or a species, or a research institute, or a hospital or a … No, no one would ever do that! AW
From Voice TV: Flood-Fighting Trucks Belong to Thaksin Supporters
Some trucks laden with subsistency bags for delivery to flood victims did not belong to any government agency but to ordinary supporters of Thaksin Shinawatra, said a Puea Thai MP.
During a joint House/Senate debate on the deluge crisis at parliament on Friday, Worachai Hema (Puea Thai, Samut Prakarn) said the trucks which delivered relief items in the subsistency bags to the flood victims were owned by ”those who maintained their faith in Thaksin.”
He was responding to allegations launched by Rangsima Rodrasamee (Democrat, Samut Songkram) billboards with enlarged pictures of the deposed premier were installed on the vehicles owned by a government unit.
…
I do agree, the ownership of the truck and the source of the supplies is not confirmed.
One would hope that Mr. Radcliff would understand the difference between the label from a charitable foundation or even a corporate sponsor and the banner and label giving credit to Thaksin.
Again, the uproar was not about the PR Thaksin recieved (or not), but rather was the source actually Thaksin. Was there any doubt that the packages labeled “Princess-Pa Foundation and Chulalongkorn [University]” actually came from them?
I concur wholeheartedly with Mr Radcliffe’s position on this matter.
Ultimately, relief work should be apolitical, and ought not be used to serve the Public Relations/ propaganda objectives of two opposing sides in a political struggle…
People are fighting to survive and have lost their livelihoods in this natural disaster – consequently those generous and selfless enough to donate time, money, medicines and foodstuffs to helping those in need should not have their sacrifices wasted.
Bangkok has been encroaching upon flood reservoirs and drainage canals for the last decade (the new airport is a perfect example). They are reaping what they sowed.
As such I don’t think it’s entirely fair to place all blame of the flood on the Agricultural Minister. That said, he in 2010 allowed too much to be discharged too early (resulting in record drought) and this year too little too late (resulting in record flooding). He is clearly part of the problem, although just one link in an entire chain of failures across the board.
If for political reasons YS decides not to let him go, she still has the option of creating a water ministry … and strip him of all control of the dams.
What is written above is an accurate reflection of what I was told by the volunteer I spoke with. I was actually taken aback by the ferocity of his comments as he is usually a placid pro-monarchist. I think in this instance his anger was manifest due to the fact that he wanted to help out his fellow crisis-stricken countrymen and was assigned to the sole task of branding charitable donations along party lines. I don’t think that anybody would argue that this is a productive use of volunteer time.
Furthermore, – while there may be degrees of what is considered abhorrent – I agree with the volunteer that using funds donated from the public for political ends is abhorrent; even if the labels only cost 50 satang to produce, it is money that would be better spent on helping those in need.
It’s from their Business section and simply reports on one packaging company’s boost in business – producing “branded” (and durable etc) bags for relief supplies distribution.
Not mentioned in the article but very evident from the pic shown is just how keen the donors (mostly corporate it seems) are to ensure that the source of the donation is made known to the recipients – and, presumably, in evidence for any PR-useful photo-op that can be set up.
On balance, assuming that the publicity helps to drive up the donating, I see it as win-win. It’s the same principle at work when placard-sized cheques prominently featuring the donor’s logo are presented in front of the media. I’m happy for them to compete with each other on the size of their conspicuous giving. In any case, I also think that most Thai are largely blase about this “branding” – it’s a recurrent feature on charitable handouts from nearly all sources even in normal times (including from the very top).
And, yes – it’s completely different from somebody putting their banner on a relief truck if/when the donations it’s carrying didn’t come from that somebody.
Vichai N – you seem intent on ignoring what happened when. If you take the time to look through the Bangkok Pundit posts I listed in in c26, you will see that much of what you are saying (twice now) is misplaced.
The reporting of what Theera said in the debate has been notably limited – leaving it unclear about which period(s) he was referring to when he spoke of holding back dam discharge. A look at a set of Bangkok Pundit tweets on 11 November sheds some but not complete light:
1. The Nation focuses on Agr. Minister’s decision to delay release of water in Sep goo.gl/0c3Rn although it doesn’t provide the
2. details of what he said http://goo.gl/n3FMD 4 which you can see when you look at release of water in Sep 2011 that there was less water
3. discharged from Bhumipol Dam for around 3-4 days just after Sept 5 http://goo.gl/KbddC (u have to click large image 2 notice difference)
4. BUT then 30 times more water was discharged from Bhuimpol Dam in Sep 2011 compared with Sep 2010 so u can see that discharge in Sep 2011
5. was more than normal http://goo.gl/cWRom although slightly more water should have been discharged in Sep 2011, but it was slow discharge
6. earlier in the year which excerbated the problem leading to large discharges in Oct. Problem for govt is that was the same Agr. Minister
7. who presided over the whole problem since March – current Min was also Agr Min under Abhisit – and Min’s record is very poor.
8. Will Yingluck treat the Agr. Minister as untouchable so as not upset someone from Suphan? One hopes not as he should be 1st to go
The question raised in the last tweet is, of course, highly relevant. But, thus far, there are still many more questions than answers in this saga.
Despite the severe problems in the world economy, despite financial crisis in major European countries and slow growth in the U.S., and even despite the huge flooding crisis and dislocation in Thailand, there seems to be an total real estate boom going on in Bangkok, Pattaya/Jomtien and Phuket.
No one seems to know why exactly and where all the billions of investment capital is coming from.
And even though Bangkok is already saturated with large Shopping Malls, the just opened Terminal 21 Mall which has 300 or so shops, 50 or so restaurants, 15 or so cinemas, etc. is teeming with people every day and evening. Apparently 50,000 plus people per day.
With yet another even larger shopping mall is under construction a few blocks away opposite the Emporium Mall at which point one wonders at what point the source of investment capital will dry up and the availability of shoppers/consumers will have reached its limit.
While some would question wasting time discussing the topic of shopping malls in Bangkok during the time of the flooding crisis and tragedy, the actual discussion is the seeming invulnerability of the Thai economy to the global pressure as well as the severe internal political pressures and crisis.
Why is it that Thailand, with almost its entire female portion of the population working, and 4 to 5 million immigrant workers from Burma, Laos and Cambodia, has an unemployment rate of less than 1%? That’s basically “full employment”.
Why is it that the Rayong-Jomtien-Pattaya-Laem Chabang-Chonburi urban/tourist/industrial zone is in the midst of a condo and low-rise construction boom?
Why is it that Phuket is in the middle of a condo/hotel/villa construction and tourist boom?
Why are the millions of new tourists from Russia, Iran, the Gulf Arab States, India, China seemingly 100% undeterred from visiting Thailand for a few weeks and even a month or two?
What is the secret ingredient in the Thai system that is making all of this possible in the face of so much adversity?
Cash from Burma, Laos, China, Iran, the Gulf States and India? The desperate need for huge Japanese companies to invest in manufacturing facilities outside of Japan and not only in China? The huge cash flow generated in Thailand’s underground economy, especially the multi-billion dollar sex, gambling and counterfeit industries?
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Apostasy in Malaysia: The hidden view
Joshua #13,
You note in your essay (link HERE) that ““it is not the business of the Christian to tell Muslims how they should hold their beliefs.”
However, the larger issue is whether the Malaysian Federal Constitution is the supreme law of the land.
And in situations when there are contradictions between the Fed. Const and Islamic laws in Malaysia, what do Malaysians do?
NOTE: Dr. Mujahid, I’m still waiting for your views on the conditions that Malaysian Muslims can leave Islam?
The princess and the FROC
If you out of goodness smile when giving comfort/care/help, to someone in a dire situation; this only brigs comfort to them! Rememember these people, many working for no pay, are tired, but happy to be of help! What a rediculous comment critizicing people sharing a smile!… By the way: I have never seen so many smiles from un armed police, and military, as now. It does send out a message, doesen’t it?
The princess and the FROC
eva seriche – 17
Yes, but its not only about PR but also about QC. The labeling also ensured that the donated essentials have been screen before given out this is something that not many people think of. If you open the bag and found rotten canned fish, you will know immediately who is responsible for it.
The princess and the FROC
Maybe I’m missing the point here, but isn’t labeling aid what makes the world of humanitarian aid organisations and in some cases the governments they represent (i.e. USAID) go round? Giving aid to the needy is the most effective way to win the hearts and minds … you don’t need to be called Thaksin Shinawtra or be a princess for that matter to understand this principle which is not sole to Thailand..
The princess and the FROC
For those with access to TKNS and might check, I seem to recall that Handley spent considerable time detailing how the monarchy turns donations from others into their own and multiplies merit from it.
The current government has made multiple donations for flood victims via royal charities, with #13 above being one example.
On donations in general, in addition to companies spending huge amounts on PR that extols their relief donations (e.g. True, CP), the army has been big on making sure that their efforts are acknowledged and their trucks say where they are from. All of the royal donations are clearly marked and the palaver associated with them is leaves no doubt. There seems considerable bias in who is criticised on this score.
The princess and the FROC
One clue to this practice may be that labelling donations is deeply embedded in Thai Buddhist culture when making merit. Inscriptions of donors’ names are found at the earliest Indian Buddhist archaeological sites and the practice is equally widespread at Thai Buddhist sites. This of course takes nothing away from the basic principle that a donor should only attach their name to a donation that they themselves have made!
The princess and the FROC
AW #11
I assume you find this comment falls under ” pithy, humorous, eccentric and cheeky input” rather then “unimaginative point-scoring and idle abuse “
The princess and the FROC
John Smith – 10
If you want to go even deeper, the question should be “does our beloved princess “pays” for the package”. I hope so.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eZhDZMMHYI&feature=player_embedded
BBC under fire on Rohingyas
Rahmat
there are no rohingyas in burma or rakhine. if unhcr thinks there are 800,000 of them there that is unhcr’s concern. period.
The princess and the FROC
John Smith – have you seen the link provided in the article ‘with love and care from Thaksin Shinawatra’ – food packages with this were distributed by FROC.
The banner on the truck may just have been a passionate Thaksinitte volunteer – which is fair enough, but the design which has gone into the logo on the food package would have required a lot more time and money to create. Seems suspicious to me.
The labels from Chula were being attached to things donated from the public. The foundation have been coordinating the distribution, and perhaps donating some of the items.
The princess and the FROC
Thaksin and his cronies are self-serving scoundrels. No one in their right mind would use the name of a high status person to label a gift, or a project, or a road, or a park, or a dam, or a boat, or a species, or a research institute, or a hospital or a … No, no one would ever do that! AW
The princess and the FROC
From Voice TV:
Flood-Fighting Trucks Belong to Thaksin Supporters
Some trucks laden with subsistency bags for delivery to flood victims did not belong to any government agency but to ordinary supporters of Thaksin Shinawatra, said a Puea Thai MP.
During a joint House/Senate debate on the deluge crisis at parliament on Friday, Worachai Hema (Puea Thai, Samut Prakarn) said the trucks which delivered relief items in the subsistency bags to the flood victims were owned by ”those who maintained their faith in Thaksin.”
He was responding to allegations launched by Rangsima Rodrasamee (Democrat, Samut Songkram) billboards with enlarged pictures of the deposed premier were installed on the vehicles owned by a government unit.
…
I do agree, the ownership of the truck and the source of the supplies is not confirmed.
One would hope that Mr. Radcliff would understand the difference between the label from a charitable foundation or even a corporate sponsor and the banner and label giving credit to Thaksin.
Again, the uproar was not about the PR Thaksin recieved (or not), but rather was the source actually Thaksin. Was there any doubt that the packages labeled “Princess-Pa Foundation and Chulalongkorn [University]” actually came from them?
The princess and the FROC
I concur wholeheartedly with Mr Radcliffe’s position on this matter.
Ultimately, relief work should be apolitical, and ought not be used to serve the Public Relations/ propaganda objectives of two opposing sides in a political struggle…
People are fighting to survive and have lost their livelihoods in this natural disaster – consequently those generous and selfless enough to donate time, money, medicines and foodstuffs to helping those in need should not have their sacrifices wasted.
Shame on both parties concerned.
Managing people harder than managing water
Bangkok has been encroaching upon flood reservoirs and drainage canals for the last decade (the new airport is a perfect example). They are reaping what they sowed.
As such I don’t think it’s entirely fair to place all blame of the flood on the Agricultural Minister. That said, he in 2010 allowed too much to be discharged too early (resulting in record drought) and this year too little too late (resulting in record flooding). He is clearly part of the problem, although just one link in an entire chain of failures across the board.
If for political reasons YS decides not to let him go, she still has the option of creating a water ministry … and strip him of all control of the dams.
The princess and the FROC
Goodness is copy write protected in Thailand
The princess and the FROC
John Smith (c4): “…it was the fact that the supplies labeled as such had not been donated by Thaksin and were actually Government funded supplies.”
Could you please point to a source for this assertion?
“…people labeling supplies in Thaksin’s name when he by his own admission had nothing to do with it.”
Could you please clarify whether “…nothing to do with it…” relates to making the supplies available or the labeling of them.
The princess and the FROC
What is written above is an accurate reflection of what I was told by the volunteer I spoke with. I was actually taken aback by the ferocity of his comments as he is usually a placid pro-monarchist. I think in this instance his anger was manifest due to the fact that he wanted to help out his fellow crisis-stricken countrymen and was assigned to the sole task of branding charitable donations along party lines. I don’t think that anybody would argue that this is a productive use of volunteer time.
Furthermore, – while there may be degrees of what is considered abhorrent – I agree with the volunteer that using funds donated from the public for political ends is abhorrent; even if the labels only cost 50 satang to produce, it is money that would be better spent on helping those in need.
The princess and the FROC
I recommend looking at an article published by Bangkok Post on 4 November: http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/economics/264645/bagged-sealed-and-delivered
It’s from their Business section and simply reports on one packaging company’s boost in business – producing “branded” (and durable etc) bags for relief supplies distribution.
Not mentioned in the article but very evident from the pic shown is just how keen the donors (mostly corporate it seems) are to ensure that the source of the donation is made known to the recipients – and, presumably, in evidence for any PR-useful photo-op that can be set up.
On balance, assuming that the publicity helps to drive up the donating, I see it as win-win. It’s the same principle at work when placard-sized cheques prominently featuring the donor’s logo are presented in front of the media. I’m happy for them to compete with each other on the size of their conspicuous giving. In any case, I also think that most Thai are largely blase about this “branding” – it’s a recurrent feature on charitable handouts from nearly all sources even in normal times (including from the very top).
And, yes – it’s completely different from somebody putting their banner on a relief truck if/when the donations it’s carrying didn’t come from that somebody.
Managing people harder than managing water
Vichai N – you seem intent on ignoring what happened when. If you take the time to look through the Bangkok Pundit posts I listed in in c26, you will see that much of what you are saying (twice now) is misplaced.
The reporting of what Theera said in the debate has been notably limited – leaving it unclear about which period(s) he was referring to when he spoke of holding back dam discharge. A look at a set of Bangkok Pundit tweets on 11 November sheds some but not complete light:
1. The Nation focuses on Agr. Minister’s decision to delay release of water in Sep goo.gl/0c3Rn although it doesn’t provide the
2. details of what he said http://goo.gl/n3FMD 4 which you can see when you look at release of water in Sep 2011 that there was less water
3. discharged from Bhumipol Dam for around 3-4 days just after Sept 5 http://goo.gl/KbddC (u have to click large image 2 notice difference)
4. BUT then 30 times more water was discharged from Bhuimpol Dam in Sep 2011 compared with Sep 2010 so u can see that discharge in Sep 2011
5. was more than normal http://goo.gl/cWRom although slightly more water should have been discharged in Sep 2011, but it was slow discharge
6. earlier in the year which excerbated the problem leading to large discharges in Oct. Problem for govt is that was the same Agr. Minister
7. who presided over the whole problem since March – current Min was also Agr Min under Abhisit – and Min’s record is very poor.
8. Will Yingluck treat the Agr. Minister as untouchable so as not upset someone from Suphan? One hopes not as he should be 1st to go
The question raised in the last tweet is, of course, highly relevant. But, thus far, there are still many more questions than answers in this saga.
Glittering amidst the crisis
Despite the severe problems in the world economy, despite financial crisis in major European countries and slow growth in the U.S., and even despite the huge flooding crisis and dislocation in Thailand, there seems to be an total real estate boom going on in Bangkok, Pattaya/Jomtien and Phuket.
No one seems to know why exactly and where all the billions of investment capital is coming from.
And even though Bangkok is already saturated with large Shopping Malls, the just opened Terminal 21 Mall which has 300 or so shops, 50 or so restaurants, 15 or so cinemas, etc. is teeming with people every day and evening. Apparently 50,000 plus people per day.
With yet another even larger shopping mall is under construction a few blocks away opposite the Emporium Mall at which point one wonders at what point the source of investment capital will dry up and the availability of shoppers/consumers will have reached its limit.
(Attached link to BKK Post piece on Terminal 21’s successful opening: http://www.bangkokpost.com/travel/travel-feature/266133/global-therapy )
While some would question wasting time discussing the topic of shopping malls in Bangkok during the time of the flooding crisis and tragedy, the actual discussion is the seeming invulnerability of the Thai economy to the global pressure as well as the severe internal political pressures and crisis.
Why is it that Thailand, with almost its entire female portion of the population working, and 4 to 5 million immigrant workers from Burma, Laos and Cambodia, has an unemployment rate of less than 1%? That’s basically “full employment”.
Why is it that the Rayong-Jomtien-Pattaya-Laem Chabang-Chonburi urban/tourist/industrial zone is in the midst of a condo and low-rise construction boom?
Why is it that Phuket is in the middle of a condo/hotel/villa construction and tourist boom?
Why are the millions of new tourists from Russia, Iran, the Gulf Arab States, India, China seemingly 100% undeterred from visiting Thailand for a few weeks and even a month or two?
What is the secret ingredient in the Thai system that is making all of this possible in the face of so much adversity?
Cash from Burma, Laos, China, Iran, the Gulf States and India? The desperate need for huge Japanese companies to invest in manufacturing facilities outside of Japan and not only in China? The huge cash flow generated in Thailand’s underground economy, especially the multi-billion dollar sex, gambling and counterfeit industries?