@ Nich
The first article about the topic was published in Germany on the 12th in the Financial Times Deutschland, later “Der Spiegel” picked it up as well. I posted also on the 12th on a Thai Forum, but my post was banned. I FB’ed Bangkokpundit and he took it up a full day later, a message to BKK Post and The Nation was never replied (all on 13th). I had the feeling that nobody really wanted to touch this “hot topic” here in Thailand. …
I would like to thank Ekram for putting his/her views forward. I think the command of a language should not inhibit anyone from putting ones views forward although I admit it may make understanding one another a little more difficult but not insurmountable
Furthermore, if Ekram used Bahasa Malaysia, it would leave a large section of New Mandala readers out.
So, lets encourage Ekram and others to put their views forward. Its only through civilised (and yes, passionate) dialogues and debates, can we work our way through the challenges Malaysia face.
@Vichai N
You are so hilarious! Either that or you are one of those poor brainwashed souls that the DP and the Establishment loves – believes all things bad about the other side and everything good about this side – with no contacts with any Thais in the “inner circle”, for lack of a better word.
I mean … “these two former Thai PM’s had been honest and near religious about getting ‘personally’ implicated in any corruption period”. Almost anyone in Bangkok, especially those with acquaintances/friends with people in DP (or any other parties, seriously) and especially if you go out drinking late at night at high class bars or late night ‘khao-tom-gui’ outings (pending your social class) knows and talks about who just got how much from what and whom etc etc – including those two religiously clean person you mentioned. Gosh, Samak even once let slip (deliberately IMO) where Chuan stash some of his ill-gotten money on one of the live TV talk shows!
And Honest? Ahbisit wouldn’t even admit he is a British citizen! Even after being confronted, he hemmed and hawed and claimed he never take advantage of his British ‘birth’ and always intent to return to Thailand. When asked if he would renounce now that he was PM, he petulantly said he can renounce if everyone wants it then went on attacking someone else for dual citizenship. The point seriously for HIM at that point is not who else had dual, but whether he WILL or WILL NOT renounce. He did not. Given his stint in the army barracks during the peaceful part of the Red Shirt protest, I really wonder what will happen if Thailand was invaded during his PM-ship. Would he stay in Thailand and fight or suddenly become ‘Mark’ Ahbisit V. again and return to UK as a British citizen?
As for Chuan being “religiously clean”, well. I suppose part of the reasons by the real power brokers chose him was he appeared ‘clean’, and I am sure the condition is he remain ‘clean’ in appearance (your point on perception taken). I remembered pitying him for having all those millions that he dare not spent – must be torture, I am sure most agree with me. Then, within a year of becoming PM (Chuan I), he bought a house with 5m baht cash outright for his ‘wife’ and son. I shan’t even mention the jewels you know who is spotted wearing. Since Chuan’s life career path and public pay is public knowledge, I am sure you can do your own maths.
Again, I am fully aware of Thaksin’s corruption and that had been written here many times, so I won’t bother repeating. Given what you have written, chances are I already know more than you. But think about it, neither side are ‘clean’ in any way. While Thai media might have been restrained in reported C&A’s -erm- other activities, I assure you the rest of Thailand isn’t. Especially not DP’s lower ranking MPs.
Thanks Bradley for this very interesting piece on the South. I have to confess the south is a bit of mystery to myself since most of my friends and my life relates more to the North. The only time I’ve been South is to Phuket, which I am sure, does not count as anything of value in relation to the social and political situation there. It is like visiting Bali and arrogantly claiming to know Indonesia.
Personally I believe the Democrats will stay in power for a while more. They have the incumbent edge, the long-term patronage network, people who like most people with the no-break-don’t-fix-it mentality. Furthermore, the other parties are too numerous and small, hence ended up divided the votes and giving the DP the majority (not necessary true majority >50%) to win. You really need someone to win and then effectively managed a developmental improvement to start a change down south – hopefully by one of their own made-it-to-the-top southerners. Nothing inspires like a fairytale dream comes true.
Maybe — but I doubt that is the explanation. Newspapers are often slow on the uptake. Bloggers have all manner of advantages when it comes to getting news and analysis out quickly. That we don’t face a single, once-a-day deadline is obviously one issue. So I am not reading too much into the relatively slow response of Thailand’s press. Their choice of language is a different matter…
An excellent analysis of the situation in Malaysia, Clive.
If you were asked to advice the bumbling cousins on an exit strategy, what advice would you give, considering that they are trapped leaders within an UMNO paradigm, and Muhyiddin and Mahathir waiting to pounce on the wings?
Nik – Haven’t you missed the point about news coverage? BP’s first report was dated Jul 13, 2011 11:05AM UTC ( which is 6:05 pm BKK time). The Thai press did not report the incident until Jul 15 when it could have been in the papers on 14th.
Why the slowness? Did they fear Lese Magesty charges ( and does The Nation still fear and hence no mention of the pilot) or are they trying to cover up the frequent visits to Munich?
No doubt the folk in Phrae will be giggling also.
I rather believe CPI than your statement, honestly. If you don’t know the Dem tactic of good cop bad cop then let me reminded you why Chuan seems to be the nicest guy ever, but his duo Sanan was running rampage and involve with several corruption charge that he himself go ban for 5 years? Moreover, the guy son was driving a BMW Z4 while he’s pretending to be dirt poor. Come on at least to true to yourself.
I felt bad for the prince really, the whole thing happened because the Abhisit government doesn’t want to pay the debt and the prince took the fall for it.
I like the concept of ” the non-state law of sacred centers”. It helps explainging the spirit dominated society of Lan Na in the past.
Most of the Thai people still believe in karma and the bad result of doing bad. But they are not as passive as their ancestors. They are now using both the legal process to get compensation and to cure their bad fortunes by worshipping the spirits. This is the Thai way of globalization. The Thai never imitate new thing without adaptation. The Thai cultural root is very deep. They will do anything to get the better returns. If they get hurt by the accidents, they will call police and negotiate to get the best they can from the drivers. But they are not sure whether they can get justice as there is a saying, “justice is in the lion’s mouth”. They know how to gain justice by going to the media. They also ask for help from the spirits.
Thai people see it as time wasting to go to court. If they can settle the dispute by themselves, they prefer to do so. Again, an old Thai saying and also the Chinese, Kin Khi Ma Dee Kwa Kha Khwam. It is better to eat dog’s shit than to have a lawsuit. We have a modern westernized law but we don’t have a good means to enforce the law. Drivers in Chiang Mai do not obey the traffic rules because the police is not strict. If they get you, you still can pass by a red bank note. Wealthy and powerful people enjoy more legal privileges than the lower class.
If the court takes your side, it is a good court. People say that it does not matter whether someone violate the law because we need them to help solve economic problems. Law is not as important as mouth and stomach. Getting 15 million votes, you can escape any lawsuit and can commit any crimes as long as you give something the people. Having this idea make the Thai people depend on a big guy or a big group who can enrich themselves and their friends by giving a small share to the people.
Red and Yellow is not just a political conflict or class conflict. It is an interest and ethical conflict of the two groups; old bureaucratic and old business group with a majority of middle class V.S the new big business with the majority of grassroot. Both have their own aims. It is not the same as the fighting between the students and the military government in the 1970s.
What a terrifically delightful story! I don’t think FM Kasit Piromya or the rest of the RTG will be able to lie or bluster their way out of this one, but they are certainly going to try! Bangkok Pundit has some good reporting and it appears the plane is indeed owned by the Royal Thai Air Force, despite what they are saying. I don’t think the German government is going to lift a single finger to help Kasit, so he is in store for quite a loss of face. Nobody in Germany cares that it is the CP’s plane. For that matter, I don’t think that many people in Thailand care.
He and the rest of the Abhisit government should do the right thing; give up on this decades long foot dragging and Thai exceptionalism bullshit and pay up! The money is long overdue.
An excellent review which provides a warm critical appreciation of a study on an understudied topic and invites readers to follow up and engage directly with the book themselves.
An astute summary and analysis of this sad state of affairs in Malaysia.
It should have wider circulation as Australia seems to be ignoring the decline of constitutional democracy in Malaysia and the valiant and brave efforts of some of its citizens to stand up to the undemocratic behaviour of its government.
Thank you for making this material more widely available.
Obviously there are pros and cons to this. The good things are Laos will prosper from trade and tourism from China and the neighboring Greater Mekong (GMS) countries. On the negative side, the country’s culture and lifestyle may suffer. The landscape will be changed forever.
At present, Laos is still a country of pristine natural attraction where many travelers go to wow her natural beauty and to see the people’s simply way of living as the government promote the country with a slogan “Simply Beautiful”.
[…] Last weekend, Malaysia’s Bersih (clean elections) movement drew tens of thousands of protestors to the streets of Kuala Lumpur, demanding reform of the electoral system, which is weighted in numerous ways to protect the ruling coalition. Though the protest was largely peaceful, the government met the demonstration with massive force, arresting thousands of protestors. The police used clubs, water cannons, and tear gas to crush the protests. (New Mandala has fine coverage of the Bersih protests.) […]
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Plane audacity in Thai dispute
@ Nich
The first article about the topic was published in Germany on the 12th in the Financial Times Deutschland, later “Der Spiegel” picked it up as well. I posted also on the 12th on a Thai Forum, but my post was banned. I FB’ed Bangkokpundit and he took it up a full day later, a message to BKK Post and The Nation was never replied (all on 13th). I had the feeling that nobody really wanted to touch this “hot topic” here in Thailand. …
Malaysia’s Lady Liberty
I would like to thank Ekram for putting his/her views forward. I think the command of a language should not inhibit anyone from putting ones views forward although I admit it may make understanding one another a little more difficult but not insurmountable
Furthermore, if Ekram used Bahasa Malaysia, it would leave a large section of New Mandala readers out.
So, lets encourage Ekram and others to put their views forward. Its only through civilised (and yes, passionate) dialogues and debates, can we work our way through the challenges Malaysia face.
Thailand’s corruption record
@Vichai N
You are so hilarious! Either that or you are one of those poor brainwashed souls that the DP and the Establishment loves – believes all things bad about the other side and everything good about this side – with no contacts with any Thais in the “inner circle”, for lack of a better word.
I mean … “these two former Thai PM’s had been honest and near religious about getting ‘personally’ implicated in any corruption period”. Almost anyone in Bangkok, especially those with acquaintances/friends with people in DP (or any other parties, seriously) and especially if you go out drinking late at night at high class bars or late night ‘khao-tom-gui’ outings (pending your social class) knows and talks about who just got how much from what and whom etc etc – including those two religiously clean person you mentioned. Gosh, Samak even once let slip (deliberately IMO) where Chuan stash some of his ill-gotten money on one of the live TV talk shows!
And Honest? Ahbisit wouldn’t even admit he is a British citizen! Even after being confronted, he hemmed and hawed and claimed he never take advantage of his British ‘birth’ and always intent to return to Thailand. When asked if he would renounce now that he was PM, he petulantly said he can renounce if everyone wants it then went on attacking someone else for dual citizenship. The point seriously for HIM at that point is not who else had dual, but whether he WILL or WILL NOT renounce. He did not. Given his stint in the army barracks during the peaceful part of the Red Shirt protest, I really wonder what will happen if Thailand was invaded during his PM-ship. Would he stay in Thailand and fight or suddenly become ‘Mark’ Ahbisit V. again and return to UK as a British citizen?
As for Chuan being “religiously clean”, well. I suppose part of the reasons by the real power brokers chose him was he appeared ‘clean’, and I am sure the condition is he remain ‘clean’ in appearance (your point on perception taken). I remembered pitying him for having all those millions that he dare not spent – must be torture, I am sure most agree with me. Then, within a year of becoming PM (Chuan I), he bought a house with 5m baht cash outright for his ‘wife’ and son. I shan’t even mention the jewels you know who is spotted wearing. Since Chuan’s life career path and public pay is public knowledge, I am sure you can do your own maths.
Again, I am fully aware of Thaksin’s corruption and that had been written here many times, so I won’t bother repeating. Given what you have written, chances are I already know more than you. But think about it, neither side are ‘clean’ in any way. While Thai media might have been restrained in reported C&A’s -erm- other activities, I assure you the rest of Thailand isn’t. Especially not DP’s lower ranking MPs.
Plane audacity in Thai dispute
Wouldn’t say The Nation quite got away with ‘not mentioning the war’. Halfway into the article:
“I made it clear that this matter has nothing to do with the royal court,” (Kasit) said.
Democrat dominance in the deep south
Thanks Bradley for this very interesting piece on the South. I have to confess the south is a bit of mystery to myself since most of my friends and my life relates more to the North. The only time I’ve been South is to Phuket, which I am sure, does not count as anything of value in relation to the social and political situation there. It is like visiting Bali and arrogantly claiming to know Indonesia.
Personally I believe the Democrats will stay in power for a while more. They have the incumbent edge, the long-term patronage network, people who like most people with the no-break-don’t-fix-it mentality. Furthermore, the other parties are too numerous and small, hence ended up divided the votes and giving the DP the majority (not necessary true majority >50%) to win. You really need someone to win and then effectively managed a developmental improvement to start a change down south – hopefully by one of their own made-it-to-the-top southerners. Nothing inspires like a fairytale dream comes true.
Plane audacity in Thai dispute
Thanks Ricky,
Maybe — but I doubt that is the explanation. Newspapers are often slow on the uptake. Bloggers have all manner of advantages when it comes to getting news and analysis out quickly. That we don’t face a single, once-a-day deadline is obviously one issue. So I am not reading too much into the relatively slow response of Thailand’s press. Their choice of language is a different matter…
Best wishes to all,
Nich
Plane audacity in Thai dispute
I wouldn’t be surprised if our Werner was once on the arse-end of a Pattaya jet-ski scam. Touché
Malaysia: a Clean sweep?
An excellent analysis of the situation in Malaysia, Clive.
If you were asked to advice the bumbling cousins on an exit strategy, what advice would you give, considering that they are trapped leaders within an UMNO paradigm, and Muhyiddin and Mahathir waiting to pounce on the wings?
Plane audacity in Thai dispute
Nik – Haven’t you missed the point about news coverage? BP’s first report was dated Jul 13, 2011 11:05AM UTC ( which is 6:05 pm BKK time). The Thai press did not report the incident until Jul 15 when it could have been in the papers on 14th.
Why the slowness? Did they fear Lese Magesty charges ( and does The Nation still fear and hence no mention of the pilot) or are they trying to cover up the frequent visits to Munich?
No doubt the folk in Phrae will be giggling also.
Thailand’s corruption record
Vichai N – 18
I rather believe CPI than your statement, honestly. If you don’t know the Dem tactic of good cop bad cop then let me reminded you why Chuan seems to be the nicest guy ever, but his duo Sanan was running rampage and involve with several corruption charge that he himself go ban for 5 years? Moreover, the guy son was driving a BMW Z4 while he’s pretending to be dirt poor. Come on at least to true to yourself.
Plane audacity in Thai dispute
I felt bad for the prince really, the whole thing happened because the Abhisit government doesn’t want to pay the debt and the prince took the fall for it.
Review of Tort, Custom and Karma
I like the concept of ” the non-state law of sacred centers”. It helps explainging the spirit dominated society of Lan Na in the past.
Most of the Thai people still believe in karma and the bad result of doing bad. But they are not as passive as their ancestors. They are now using both the legal process to get compensation and to cure their bad fortunes by worshipping the spirits. This is the Thai way of globalization. The Thai never imitate new thing without adaptation. The Thai cultural root is very deep. They will do anything to get the better returns. If they get hurt by the accidents, they will call police and negotiate to get the best they can from the drivers. But they are not sure whether they can get justice as there is a saying, “justice is in the lion’s mouth”. They know how to gain justice by going to the media. They also ask for help from the spirits.
Thai people see it as time wasting to go to court. If they can settle the dispute by themselves, they prefer to do so. Again, an old Thai saying and also the Chinese, Kin Khi Ma Dee Kwa Kha Khwam. It is better to eat dog’s shit than to have a lawsuit. We have a modern westernized law but we don’t have a good means to enforce the law. Drivers in Chiang Mai do not obey the traffic rules because the police is not strict. If they get you, you still can pass by a red bank note. Wealthy and powerful people enjoy more legal privileges than the lower class.
If the court takes your side, it is a good court. People say that it does not matter whether someone violate the law because we need them to help solve economic problems. Law is not as important as mouth and stomach. Getting 15 million votes, you can escape any lawsuit and can commit any crimes as long as you give something the people. Having this idea make the Thai people depend on a big guy or a big group who can enrich themselves and their friends by giving a small share to the people.
Red and Yellow is not just a political conflict or class conflict. It is an interest and ethical conflict of the two groups; old bureaucratic and old business group with a majority of middle class V.S the new big business with the majority of grassroot. Both have their own aims. It is not the same as the fighting between the students and the military government in the 1970s.
Plane audacity in Thai dispute
What a terrifically delightful story! I don’t think FM Kasit Piromya or the rest of the RTG will be able to lie or bluster their way out of this one, but they are certainly going to try! Bangkok Pundit has some good reporting and it appears the plane is indeed owned by the Royal Thai Air Force, despite what they are saying. I don’t think the German government is going to lift a single finger to help Kasit, so he is in store for quite a loss of face. Nobody in Germany cares that it is the CP’s plane. For that matter, I don’t think that many people in Thailand care.
He and the rest of the Abhisit government should do the right thing; give up on this decades long foot dragging and Thai exceptionalism bullshit and pay up! The money is long overdue.
Review of Loos
An excellent review which provides a warm critical appreciation of a study on an understudied topic and invites readers to follow up and engage directly with the book themselves.
Malaysia: a Clean sweep?
An astute summary and analysis of this sad state of affairs in Malaysia.
It should have wider circulation as Australia seems to be ignoring the decline of constitutional democracy in Malaysia and the valiant and brave efforts of some of its citizens to stand up to the undemocratic behaviour of its government.
Thank you for making this material more widely available.
Unlocking Laos
Obviously there are pros and cons to this. The good things are Laos will prosper from trade and tourism from China and the neighboring Greater Mekong (GMS) countries. On the negative side, the country’s culture and lifestyle may suffer. The landscape will be changed forever.
At present, Laos is still a country of pristine natural attraction where many travelers go to wow her natural beauty and to see the people’s simply way of living as the government promote the country with a slogan “Simply Beautiful”.
Jaffee Yee, Editor-in-Chief, Asean Mekong Travel magazine
It was brutal, Najib!
[…] Last weekend, Malaysia’s Bersih (clean elections) movement drew tens of thousands of protestors to the streets of Kuala Lumpur, demanding reform of the electoral system, which is weighted in numerous ways to protect the ruling coalition. Though the protest was largely peaceful, the government met the demonstration with massive force, arresting thousands of protestors. The police used clubs, water cannons, and tear gas to crush the protests. (New Mandala has fine coverage of the Bersih protests.) […]
BERSIH 2.0 overcomes the police state
[…] The police used clubs, water cannons, and tear gas to crush the protests. (New Mandala has fine coverage of the Bersih […]
BERSIH 2.0 analysis
First it was Prachatai, now Bersih, is being accused of receiving funds from NED.
Soon it will be Pheu Thai, Singapore’s PAP, or Susilo B. Yudhoyono’s Democrat Party (which is having its own image problem now).
I don’t believe in this rubbish.
BERSIH 2.0 analysis
Hi Tony,
Have you heard of Glen Beck. You sound like him.
I think you would love this “documentary” about George Soros.