Tarrin – 11
All that wasted money, time and effort for international degrees.
Why is it always the ‘face value’ of the west that Thais love to consume but to actually have them learn and apply something they have learnt in the west sees many Thai turn xenophobic exclaiming they do not respect the knowledge that comes from there.
Its totally contradictory and actually makes the PM, Yingluck and her big brother who has a degree from the US look ridiculous.
If they can’t apply anything they have learnt in the west they should not have gone to study there in the first place.
Thai universities could of offered them more than enough knowledge of how to deal with the peculiarities of Thai politics they certainly did n’t need to go abroad.
Iinternational degrees in Thailand are actually worthless when you come to think of it as you could never really apply anything you have learnt to the Thai way of doing things as you’d surely get knocked down soon enough by those very dinosaurs who have hijacked the culture.
Gotta luv them elites they know how to make an academic look really good!!!!
There is every need for it, as about the only means available to indicate that local politics is a total bum steer. I would hardly call NM the cutting edge of political punditry either. Although to be fair they talk up the stuff that supposed elite people need to know. It is just irrelevant to us mere mortals who struggle to survive the constant shitstream of local powermongering. Indeed, even that token rebel Chuwit claims to ‘love’ the system.
Full score for Abhisit in “Oral skills” and “Political Experience” is ridiculous.
Best argument against the first is his low rated and rarely watched boring Sunday Morning Show, and his at least mediocre performance at censure debates.
In eperience he is clearly not on level with Thaksin, who should get one point more. Maybe even two, for how he handled PT under unfavorable conditions, fooled everyone with a fake Mingkhwan candidacy and surprised with his sister.
I like ‘sarcasm’ as much as I like ‘innuendo’., but thank you just the same Nattavud(#8) because I am starved for affection at NM.
But why SteveCM will disregard academic background (for Thai PM candidates) could probably be explained by SteveCM highly endorsing a ‘pimp’ (Chuvit!) to the Thai legislature.
I fail to understand why the wealthy including Thai politicians alike are educated abroad as when they return to Thailand they are seemingly unable to implement what was learn’ t in the west.
That was because Thailand political system is nothing like the West. No matter how progressive you are or whatever you might get from the West, the elite will shoot you down pretty easily because they have all the tools at their disposal such as the media, the state apparatus and the gossip network to destroy you.
“We can’t give any score to Yingluck, as stated in previous points.”
Surely if Khun Yingluck is “Thaksins clone” and “Vote Yingluck-Get Thaksin” plus Thaksins statement that he doesn’t want her to be PM makes it clear that us and the voters that she is not required to run the country only win the election as a proxy.
Therefore should we not substitute Thaksins scores against Abhisits where it is stated she has no experience to make a more informed comparison?
The questions for most people I think are:
1. How successful will he be running the nation by telephone?
2. When will he pick up the courage to return?
3. What changes need to take place before he does?
4. What will happen when he does?
3 and 4 are the most interesting IMHO. Note I say when, not if.
I fail to understand why the wealthy including Thai politicians alike are educated abroad as when they return to Thailand they are seemingly unable to implement what was learn’ t in the west.
It doesn’t seem to be RESPECTED!!
Thousands of Thai students study abroad, many do business studies that apply to international standards especially within Europe, the USA and Australia, yet on return to Thailand these graduates are thrown back into an archaic ‘patronage system’ that has no regard for international standards of doing business, as this system operates outside of set rules and laws.
How foreign countries deal with such duplicitous standards in international trade with Thailand intrigues me!
The international degree so favored by the elite classes in Thailand, seems like a FACE building exercise much the same as acquiring a designer handbag.
It makes you wonder why Thai Universities are viewed as sub standard in terms of the degrees they offer.
Why must Thais go abroad to study when they really can’t apply what they have learn t once they return to Thailand?
Its totally absurd but when you look at what goes on in the kingdom you can strangely understand.TIT
We do not want a leader with business skills. In fact, we need one with strong management skills and both differ significantly. I also question Abhisit’s management skills because he fails tremendously as the manager of his government.
To SteveCm,
Like Twitter, this forum is also an opening discussion so Vichai N just expressed his view. No need for sarcasm on this forum. The comparative table compares various aspects of both potential leaders and I think acaemic background is a valid point. A number of research studies (i.e. Bass, House, Fidler etc.) confirm positive relationship among strong academic intelligence and leadership.
This podcast was a wonderful idea for those unable to attend. I look foward to the book. What is the website for announcement of the next year’s Burma Up-date?
Perhaps the Burma Studies Group Conference in Oct 2013 in DeKalb, Illinois can do a podcast .
I have only two other comments:
1. I would like very much to see the slides of the presentations put on the internet with a copyright notice if necessary.
2. The audience questions and comments generally and the Conclusion section were largely inaudible on the Podcast. Why was that? Did you have a microphone for the audience tied in to the podcast?
Thanks to everyone for all your efforts,
Paul Sarno
Link to a further piece which provides an explanation for the additional Computer Crimes charge (added after the earlier LM charges) brought against the U.S. citizen arrested and imprisoned without bail in Thailand for exercising his rights as a U.S. citizen to Free Speech rigjhts while resident in the U.S. state of Colorado about 3 years ago. Apparently the Computer Crimes charge was brought against him for the purpose of denying him bail:
It would be interesting to see what is included in “a full scheme of social welfare” since the figure cited (21% of GDP) is significantly higher than the 2005 calculations by ILO and the 2011 estimates from the UN ESCAP study on social protection
The assumption seems to be that the financing has to come completely from outside “social expenditures” when in fact some of it may come from the restructuring of existing expenditure, i.e. Some ageing societies may require less funding for child-related support and could shift it towards support for the elderly.
Finally, technical discussions of how much a scheme would cost and where to get the funding often neglect to discuss the fact that budget allocation is, at the end of the day, a political decision. In my experience, costing exercise of social programmes have been used much more to justify NOT allocating funds than to sway the views of the politicians responsible for the decisions
One question: has the “regional” aspect of the “list” vote disappeared – making all list votes national rather than deciding the list in each of 8 regions?
As to the opening question – I suggest you tweet both and ask them. Feel free to come back and report the response(s).
Given how money talks (as do connections) and gains places for even the most academically suspect at the most prestigious US universities, I doubt that academic grades had anything whatever to do with the choice for Yingluck. I don’t know about the choices open to Thaksin at the time – but then, after two terms as a highly popular and successful PM, that’s rather…. ummm….. “academic” now, isn’t it?
There are arguable grounds for starting the clock at a number of points in Thai history – but, rather plainly, starting it anytime before Thaksin doesn’t suit those who prefer their chosen (and very limited) agenda to relevant context.
Allowing that the 2001 assets verdict was almost certainly a product of political wind-blow rather than neutrally based on the evidence presented (no change there, then), it’s worth noting that the Thai people had the perfect opportunity to register their disgust/displeasure at the decision in the 2005 election. I suspect most readers here are well aware how that vote turned out.
I immediately dismissed this “anaylsis” when I arrived at Wealth. The Shinawatras might have more money than the Vejjajivas, but 3/5 makes it seem like Abhisit is somehow middle class. I wouldn’t be surprised if both families are in the top percentile nationally, and neither are representative of the average Thai family income/wealth.
@ Jim Taylor – Do you have a personal vendetta against paragraphs?
I so didn’t really want to comment, but after seeing some replies in this site, I just want to say a very simple thing:
If after 3 years of running the country (terribly too I might add), and reminding the population that you (Abhisit and all Democrats) cannot provide a clear-cut alternative to Thaksin Shinawatra other than being a Thaksin-lite riddled with corruption and no movement (2 years to clear the ID card issue, and the buses are still tabled), then all I can say is thank you for reminding that Thaksin isn’t just good at “Branding” and “Marketing”, as Branding and Marketing can only work if the product is semi-decent.
Regarding the Democratic campaign: it’s simply atrocious, I can’t even figure out sometimes what “Number” I’m supposed to vote when seeing their ad, much less the white font on light blue makes it hard to read what the sign says, especially at night.
If you can’t run a good campaign, why should you be trusted with running the nation?
Furthermore, PT runs a good campaign… yes they are corrupt, but so are you, so why not vote for better administrators given that corruption is the same….
(note this is a conversation with most of my friends/family who are yellow-hued and love Abhisit).
I want to add for NM readers though, that Thaksin’s treatment of ITV, and his suing of journalists does make me not trust him much either.
I’m between voting for his #1, and the other part of me that believes that Thai Politics is such a joke, to put in the joker at #5 because we all know that truth lies in good humor.
Seems to me it all started with Thaksin’s acquittal of asset concealment shortly after the 2001 election.
Continue from Andrew Spooner #132
For some reason many people seems to think Thailand history somehow start during when Thaksin took office (you know, those chaos and corruption et al). For me its all start (to go down hill at least) when Sarit took over the power from the people assembly.
Why do these Shinawatras . . . Thaksin and Yingluck . . . prefer no-name American schools for their grad/post-grad degrees? Either these Shinawatras were just plain lazy or their university scores were just sub-par that disqualified them to get accepted at name/highly credited US graduate schools.
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Scorecard on Abhisit and Yingluck
Tarrin – 11
All that wasted money, time and effort for international degrees.
Why is it always the ‘face value’ of the west that Thais love to consume but to actually have them learn and apply something they have learnt in the west sees many Thai turn xenophobic exclaiming they do not respect the knowledge that comes from there.
Its totally contradictory and actually makes the PM, Yingluck and her big brother who has a degree from the US look ridiculous.
If they can’t apply anything they have learnt in the west they should not have gone to study there in the first place.
Thai universities could of offered them more than enough knowledge of how to deal with the peculiarities of Thai politics they certainly did n’t need to go abroad.
Iinternational degrees in Thailand are actually worthless when you come to think of it as you could never really apply anything you have learnt to the Thai way of doing things as you’d surely get knocked down soon enough by those very dinosaurs who have hijacked the culture.
Gotta luv them elites they know how to make an academic look really good!!!!
Scorecard on Abhisit and Yingluck
“No need for sarcasm on this forum.”
There is every need for it, as about the only means available to indicate that local politics is a total bum steer. I would hardly call NM the cutting edge of political punditry either. Although to be fair they talk up the stuff that supposed elite people need to know. It is just irrelevant to us mere mortals who struggle to survive the constant shitstream of local powermongering. Indeed, even that token rebel Chuwit claims to ‘love’ the system.
Scorecard on Abhisit and Yingluck
Full score for Abhisit in “Oral skills” and “Political Experience” is ridiculous.
Best argument against the first is his low rated and rarely watched boring Sunday Morning Show, and his at least mediocre performance at censure debates.
In eperience he is clearly not on level with Thaksin, who should get one point more. Maybe even two, for how he handled PT under unfavorable conditions, fooled everyone with a fake Mingkhwan candidacy and surprised with his sister.
Scorecard on Abhisit and Yingluck
I like ‘sarcasm’ as much as I like ‘innuendo’., but thank you just the same Nattavud(#8) because I am starved for affection at NM.
But why SteveCM will disregard academic background (for Thai PM candidates) could probably be explained by SteveCM highly endorsing a ‘pimp’ (Chuvit!) to the Thai legislature.
Scorecard on Abhisit and Yingluck
John – 9
I fail to understand why the wealthy including Thai politicians alike are educated abroad as when they return to Thailand they are seemingly unable to implement what was learn’ t in the west.
That was because Thailand political system is nothing like the West. No matter how progressive you are or whatever you might get from the West, the elite will shoot you down pretty easily because they have all the tools at their disposal such as the media, the state apparatus and the gossip network to destroy you.
Scorecard on Abhisit and Yingluck
“We can’t give any score to Yingluck, as stated in previous points.”
Surely if Khun Yingluck is “Thaksins clone” and “Vote Yingluck-Get Thaksin” plus Thaksins statement that he doesn’t want her to be PM makes it clear that us and the voters that she is not required to run the country only win the election as a proxy.
Therefore should we not substitute Thaksins scores against Abhisits where it is stated she has no experience to make a more informed comparison?
The questions for most people I think are:
1. How successful will he be running the nation by telephone?
2. When will he pick up the courage to return?
3. What changes need to take place before he does?
4. What will happen when he does?
3 and 4 are the most interesting IMHO. Note I say when, not if.
Scorecard on Abhisit and Yingluck
I fail to understand why the wealthy including Thai politicians alike are educated abroad as when they return to Thailand they are seemingly unable to implement what was learn’ t in the west.
It doesn’t seem to be RESPECTED!!
Thousands of Thai students study abroad, many do business studies that apply to international standards especially within Europe, the USA and Australia, yet on return to Thailand these graduates are thrown back into an archaic ‘patronage system’ that has no regard for international standards of doing business, as this system operates outside of set rules and laws.
How foreign countries deal with such duplicitous standards in international trade with Thailand intrigues me!
The international degree so favored by the elite classes in Thailand, seems like a FACE building exercise much the same as acquiring a designer handbag.
It makes you wonder why Thai Universities are viewed as sub standard in terms of the degrees they offer.
Why must Thais go abroad to study when they really can’t apply what they have learn t once they return to Thailand?
Its totally absurd but when you look at what goes on in the kingdom you can strangely understand.TIT
Scorecard on Abhisit and Yingluck
To Leeyiankun,
We do not want a leader with business skills. In fact, we need one with strong management skills and both differ significantly. I also question Abhisit’s management skills because he fails tremendously as the manager of his government.
To SteveCm,
Like Twitter, this forum is also an opening discussion so Vichai N just expressed his view. No need for sarcasm on this forum. The comparative table compares various aspects of both potential leaders and I think acaemic background is a valid point. A number of research studies (i.e. Bass, House, Fidler etc.) confirm positive relationship among strong academic intelligence and leadership.
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
Why not start in 1932 and the royalists’ decision to fight the loss of absolute power following that?
Podcasts from 2011 Myanmar/Burma Update
This podcast was a wonderful idea for those unable to attend. I look foward to the book. What is the website for announcement of the next year’s Burma Up-date?
Perhaps the Burma Studies Group Conference in Oct 2013 in DeKalb, Illinois can do a podcast .
I have only two other comments:
1. I would like very much to see the slides of the presentations put on the internet with a copyright notice if necessary.
2. The audience questions and comments generally and the Conclusion section were largely inaudible on the Podcast. Why was that? Did you have a microphone for the audience tied in to the podcast?
Thanks to everyone for all your efforts,
Paul Sarno
Thai Studies conference in Melbourne
Link to a further piece which provides an explanation for the additional Computer Crimes charge (added after the earlier LM charges) brought against the U.S. citizen arrested and imprisoned without bail in Thailand for exercising his rights as a U.S. citizen to Free Speech rigjhts while resident in the U.S. state of Colorado about 3 years ago. Apparently the Computer Crimes charge was brought against him for the purpose of denying him bail:
http://goo.gl/1odQo
Thailand can afford equitable social welfare
It would be interesting to see what is included in “a full scheme of social welfare” since the figure cited (21% of GDP) is significantly higher than the 2005 calculations by ILO and the 2011 estimates from the UN ESCAP study on social protection
The assumption seems to be that the financing has to come completely from outside “social expenditures” when in fact some of it may come from the restructuring of existing expenditure, i.e. Some ageing societies may require less funding for child-related support and could shift it towards support for the elderly.
Finally, technical discussions of how much a scheme would cost and where to get the funding often neglect to discuss the fact that budget allocation is, at the end of the day, a political decision. In my experience, costing exercise of social programmes have been used much more to justify NOT allocating funds than to sway the views of the politicians responsible for the decisions
Thailand’s electoral rules
Sincere thanks to Aim Sinpeng for this.
One question: has the “regional” aspect of the “list” vote disappeared – making all list votes national rather than deciding the list in each of 8 regions?
Scorecard on Abhisit and Yingluck
c4
As to the opening question – I suggest you tweet both and ask them. Feel free to come back and report the response(s).
Given how money talks (as do connections) and gains places for even the most academically suspect at the most prestigious US universities, I doubt that academic grades had anything whatever to do with the choice for Yingluck. I don’t know about the choices open to Thaksin at the time – but then, after two terms as a highly popular and successful PM, that’s rather…. ummm….. “academic” now, isn’t it?
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
c139 & c140
There are arguable grounds for starting the clock at a number of points in Thai history – but, rather plainly, starting it anytime before Thaksin doesn’t suit those who prefer their chosen (and very limited) agenda to relevant context.
Allowing that the 2001 assets verdict was almost certainly a product of political wind-blow rather than neutrally based on the evidence presented (no change there, then), it’s worth noting that the Thai people had the perfect opportunity to register their disgust/displeasure at the decision in the 2005 election. I suspect most readers here are well aware how that vote turned out.
Scorecard on Abhisit and Yingluck
I hope Ms Yinglak becomes prime minister. Then Thaksin would be free to replace General Prem as chief privy councillor.
Scorecard on Abhisit and Yingluck
I immediately dismissed this “anaylsis” when I arrived at Wealth. The Shinawatras might have more money than the Vejjajivas, but 3/5 makes it seem like Abhisit is somehow middle class. I wouldn’t be surprised if both families are in the top percentile nationally, and neither are representative of the average Thai family income/wealth.
@ Jim Taylor – Do you have a personal vendetta against paragraphs?
Yingluck on the streets
I so didn’t really want to comment, but after seeing some replies in this site, I just want to say a very simple thing:
If after 3 years of running the country (terribly too I might add), and reminding the population that you (Abhisit and all Democrats) cannot provide a clear-cut alternative to Thaksin Shinawatra other than being a Thaksin-lite riddled with corruption and no movement (2 years to clear the ID card issue, and the buses are still tabled), then all I can say is thank you for reminding that Thaksin isn’t just good at “Branding” and “Marketing”, as Branding and Marketing can only work if the product is semi-decent.
Regarding the Democratic campaign: it’s simply atrocious, I can’t even figure out sometimes what “Number” I’m supposed to vote when seeing their ad, much less the white font on light blue makes it hard to read what the sign says, especially at night.
If you can’t run a good campaign, why should you be trusted with running the nation?
Furthermore, PT runs a good campaign… yes they are corrupt, but so are you, so why not vote for better administrators given that corruption is the same….
(note this is a conversation with most of my friends/family who are yellow-hued and love Abhisit).
I want to add for NM readers though, that Thaksin’s treatment of ITV, and his suing of journalists does make me not trust him much either.
I’m between voting for his #1, and the other part of me that believes that Thai Politics is such a joke, to put in the joker at #5 because we all know that truth lies in good humor.
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
Thaihome -139
Seems to me it all started with Thaksin’s acquittal of asset concealment shortly after the 2001 election.
Continue from Andrew Spooner #132
For some reason many people seems to think Thailand history somehow start during when Thaksin took office (you know, those chaos and corruption et al). For me its all start (to go down hill at least) when Sarit took over the power from the people assembly.
Scorecard on Abhisit and Yingluck
Why do these Shinawatras . . . Thaksin and Yingluck . . . prefer no-name American schools for their grad/post-grad degrees? Either these Shinawatras were just plain lazy or their university scores were just sub-par that disqualified them to get accepted at name/highly credited US graduate schools.