Yes, I agree that Viet Nam and Cambodia have been quite contradictory by on the one hand raising concerns about Xayaburi and on the other hand moving ahead with the Lower Sesan 2 dam, which would indeed be a very destructive project located on a large tributary not far from the mainstream Mekong. Local people have expressed a lot of concern about that dam, and it would also have serious regional implications as well.
Nobody – the HRW report is compulsive reading. It will be interesting to see how the government, military and Reds Shirts respond – if they respond at all
It is worth looking at the full mosaic of dam projects in the region. While Vietnam and Cambodia seem to be speaking up about Xayaburi they are pushing ahead with the Lower Sesan 2 – long identified as a killer dam and barely viable for electricity power generation. LS2 is funded by VN which is in the strange position of being an upstream country of the Sesan – and already experience something of a water crisis – but also being downstream of the Sesan, Sekong and Srepok as these 3 rivers and the Mekong make a major contribution to the flow into the Delta.
The decision-making process for Lower Sesan 2 has been far from transparent or accountable
The Nation has thrown their lot, and it’s against Thaksin. Then after PAD disagrees with the Dems, they decided that siding with AV’s party is better for their coffers.
I guess the Nation has fallen to one side of the political divide in Thailand. On here we can see the “if you’re not with us, you’re must be against us” mantra at play, whether it’s the Nation or AI.
Yes, it’s true they had more guts than the Bangkok Post in reporting the cracks in the runway at Suvanabhumi Airport, but that was only when Thaksin was in power.
Nation had blow the issue out of proportion, its turned out that DCA (since this is back in 2007 or 8 so I cannot find the report anymore) has actually made the report that the crack on the runway was very ordinary for any runway since the tarmac tend to expand a lot from heat during the day so it is appropriate to have a a gap (or crack) for the possible expansion. If you actually use google map to view any airport in the world you will see that not a single one of them don’t have the “crack”. Any news house with a bit of a self respect will actually do some research on that, but no, Not The Nation.
Being said, The Nation has a lot of poor track record in their reporting from misquote to flat out lies so I dont really take them too seriously.
Stuart 6
Any Thais studying in Australia come from a very small and wealthy percentile of the population. I would expect their views to reflect their affluent upbringing. said views could well be an uncomfortable cross cultural, bi-polar mix of inculcated pride, and occasional social discomfort. Just like the rest of the human race I s’pose. . .
Andrew Spooner 2
I remember the “fly-on-the-wall” documentary on the Windsors in the mid-60’s. Uncomfortably demonstrating their human frailties to the great unwashed and probably forced on them by the then Labour government and changing social attitudes to the establishment.
I think it moved them toward greater social acceptance whilst undeniably undermining the historical reverence. The monarchy has survived and perhaps flourished because of it.
I can’t see this happening for the Chakri Dynasty in the foreseeable future.
Yes, the r word, like your top men really have reform in mind. They’ll go through the motions and rhetoric, and their juniors and subordinates will find little or no change where it matters, not only the public. Like that will benefit the citizenry.
The entire thing was planned as everyone agrees, even you and your ilk, to perpetuate military domination in economic and political life of the country. The ethnic minorities will have a few representatives speaking on their behalf in parliament, a talking shop of sorts, only to be gagged or sidelined where it matters.
Leslie Hayden indulged herself a bit in wishful thinking:
“Allowing international election monitors, lifting laws that restrict free and fair debate, and freeing key political prisoners could be tied to lifting specific sanctions.”
The generals evidently did not think that was a fair trade off. Let’s see how Derek Mitchell fares.
Now the clincher:
“… it will strengthen our position and influence inside when change does come, so we can assist the Burmese to reform their political and economic systems in a manner that best promotes U.S. economic and strategic interests.”
Yes, it’s true they had more guts than the Bangkok Post in reporting the cracks in the runway at Suvanabhumi Airport, but that was only when Thaksin was in power. Since the coup of 2006 you will have to admit they have been nothing more than a puppet for the Yellow Shirts, the royalists, the generals, and the Abhisit administration. One year ago they reached a nadir of objectivity in their reporting over the Rajaprasong protests and occupation, despite the fact that one of their own reporters was deliberately shot by the Army. I remember that “Not the Nation” had a satirical piece about how “The Nation” could not find a headline font large enough to print their rants about the dangers of the Red Menace. It would have been more funny if it wasn’t so true.
It would be interesting to study the views of the thousands of Thais studying in Australia. A survey of those who have been here for, say, longer than three years would be best. One would hope that’s enough time for the free air to disinfect at least some of the poppycock, bullshit and enforced melodrama that’s been shoved down their throats since childhood.
When I ask those I meet (which is quite a lot), the question is often met with discomfort, an awkward silence or a downward gaze – quite different from five years ago when the usual gormless tripe was more common. They rarely express open rebellion or discontent, but I can sense the conflict within.
Or who am I kidding? Perhaps when confronted with having to actually write an answer on a page, years of brainwashing will simply take control. Until they are bold enough to express it on paper, in free language, I don’t hold much hope. Would be fascinating to see where they’re currently at.
One of the most interesting aspects of what has happened is the considerable amount of open Vietnamese government criticism/concerns about the Xayaburi dam. Many would not have predicted that, as behind-the-scenes communications and criticisms between Laos and Viet Nam are generally the norm. In fact, they are basically the rule. This was something quite unusual, whatever the final outcome may be.
Not so long ago The Nation was one of the few papers to stand up against Thaksin, even foiling an attempt by Thaksin allies to buy it if I remember correctly.
I am old enough to remember a time (October 1973) when The Nation was regarded as such a dangerously anti-government and progressive beacon of free speech that it was shut down by the military government of that era, prior to the student revolution of October 13-14. I left Thailand and didn’t return for 30 years, so can someone tell me how the amart managed to wrest control of this newspaper away from those courageous journalists of the past, and turn it into the lame puppet it is today?
@#25
It is absolutely irresponsible to be suggesting again ‘the sky is falling’
especially with the available info. on COMMAND/CONTROL system, honed by 2 dictatorships, posted here on the walls of New Mandala, that has worked for over 6 decades, without ANY historical fact to dispute otherwise.
Is there an iota of benefit to the citizenry plight immediately or otherwise in your quoted source?
Even if it happen as you have hoped, the assured examples of well documented past tragedies of soldiers fending off the citizenry back happening again ever cross you mind?
I don’t think Thailand and Laos are such unlikely bed fellows. Since Chatichai’s “battlefields into marketplaces” statement, what tension has there really been to suggest that they would be unlikely? And moreover, what is there to suggest that Cambodia and Vietnam are not integrating more? I think the analysis of the relations between the former Indochinese states and Thailand is rooted firmly in a rut. The rut is that we are only able to know the history of negative events. We don’t know how those issues were resolved for these states to keep floating along peacefully. Perhaps the relations are primarily determined by paranoia of each other, but isn’t there an element of paranoia in most (international) relationships?
I feel that the Xayaburi dam will go ahead, but with much stronger regulatory commitments from Laos. At least regulatory commitments… in writing.
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Hirsch on the “new geopolitics of Mekong dams”
Yes, I agree that Viet Nam and Cambodia have been quite contradictory by on the one hand raising concerns about Xayaburi and on the other hand moving ahead with the Lower Sesan 2 dam, which would indeed be a very destructive project located on a large tributary not far from the mainstream Mekong. Local people have expressed a lot of concern about that dam, and it would also have serious regional implications as well.
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
Nobody – the HRW report is compulsive reading. It will be interesting to see how the government, military and Reds Shirts respond – if they respond at all
Hirsch on the “new geopolitics of Mekong dams”
It is worth looking at the full mosaic of dam projects in the region. While Vietnam and Cambodia seem to be speaking up about Xayaburi they are pushing ahead with the Lower Sesan 2 – long identified as a killer dam and barely viable for electricity power generation. LS2 is funded by VN which is in the strange position of being an upstream country of the Sesan – and already experience something of a water crisis – but also being downstream of the Sesan, Sekong and Srepok as these 3 rivers and the Mekong make a major contribution to the flow into the Delta.
The decision-making process for Lower Sesan 2 has been far from transparent or accountable
The Nation vs WSJ
The Nation has thrown their lot, and it’s against Thaksin. Then after PAD disagrees with the Dems, they decided that siding with AV’s party is better for their coffers.
The Nation vs WSJ
I guess the Nation has fallen to one side of the political divide in Thailand. On here we can see the “if you’re not with us, you’re must be against us” mantra at play, whether it’s the Nation or AI.
The Nation vs WSJ
Arthurson – 7
Yes, it’s true they had more guts than the Bangkok Post in reporting the cracks in the runway at Suvanabhumi Airport, but that was only when Thaksin was in power.
Nation had blow the issue out of proportion, its turned out that DCA (since this is back in 2007 or 8 so I cannot find the report anymore) has actually made the report that the crack on the runway was very ordinary for any runway since the tarmac tend to expand a lot from heat during the day so it is appropriate to have a a gap (or crack) for the possible expansion. If you actually use google map to view any airport in the world you will see that not a single one of them don’t have the “crack”. Any news house with a bit of a self respect will actually do some research on that, but no, Not The Nation.
Being said, The Nation has a lot of poor track record in their reporting from misquote to flat out lies so I dont really take them too seriously.
Thailand before the poll
Abhsit has just issued a denial – no decree submitted. Should have known better, sorry.
Monarchy and “voluntary affection”
Stuart 6
Any Thais studying in Australia come from a very small and wealthy percentile of the population. I would expect their views to reflect their affluent upbringing. said views could well be an uncomfortable cross cultural, bi-polar mix of inculcated pride, and occasional social discomfort. Just like the rest of the human race I s’pose. . .
Andrew Spooner 2
I remember the “fly-on-the-wall” documentary on the Windsors in the mid-60’s. Uncomfortably demonstrating their human frailties to the great unwashed and probably forced on them by the then Labour government and changing social attitudes to the establishment.
I think it moved them toward greater social acceptance whilst undeniably undermining the historical reverence. The monarchy has survived and perhaps flourished because of it.
I can’t see this happening for the Chakri Dynasty in the foreseeable future.
Thailand before the poll
Simon -2
Abhisit submitted a decree to dissolve the house today. It’s election time.
Guess who is not around to sign the decree.
Thailand before the poll
And in related news, Abhisit submitted a decree to dissolve the house today. It’s election time.
Thailand before the poll
“It’s likely that some among the Red Shirts carried more deadly weapons…”
How many M-79’s would it take to convince you that it is a fact?
I think the manner in which you gloss over the use of violence by the protesters is a serious omission that undermines the credibility of the piece.
New war in Kachin State?
plan B
Yes, the r word, like your top men really have reform in mind. They’ll go through the motions and rhetoric, and their juniors and subordinates will find little or no change where it matters, not only the public. Like that will benefit the citizenry.
The entire thing was planned as everyone agrees, even you and your ilk, to perpetuate military domination in economic and political life of the country. The ethnic minorities will have a few representatives speaking on their behalf in parliament, a talking shop of sorts, only to be gagged or sidelined where it matters.
Leslie Hayden indulged herself a bit in wishful thinking:
“Allowing international election monitors, lifting laws that restrict free and fair debate, and freeing key political prisoners could be tied to lifting specific sanctions.”
The generals evidently did not think that was a fair trade off. Let’s see how Derek Mitchell fares.
Now the clincher:
“… it will strengthen our position and influence inside when change does come, so we can assist the Burmese to reform their political and economic systems in a manner that best promotes U.S. economic and strategic interests.”
Here endeth your bible.
The Nation vs WSJ
Yes, it’s true they had more guts than the Bangkok Post in reporting the cracks in the runway at Suvanabhumi Airport, but that was only when Thaksin was in power. Since the coup of 2006 you will have to admit they have been nothing more than a puppet for the Yellow Shirts, the royalists, the generals, and the Abhisit administration. One year ago they reached a nadir of objectivity in their reporting over the Rajaprasong protests and occupation, despite the fact that one of their own reporters was deliberately shot by the Army. I remember that “Not the Nation” had a satirical piece about how “The Nation” could not find a headline font large enough to print their rants about the dangers of the Red Menace. It would have been more funny if it wasn’t so true.
Monarchy and “voluntary affection”
It would be interesting to study the views of the thousands of Thais studying in Australia. A survey of those who have been here for, say, longer than three years would be best. One would hope that’s enough time for the free air to disinfect at least some of the poppycock, bullshit and enforced melodrama that’s been shoved down their throats since childhood.
When I ask those I meet (which is quite a lot), the question is often met with discomfort, an awkward silence or a downward gaze – quite different from five years ago when the usual gormless tripe was more common. They rarely express open rebellion or discontent, but I can sense the conflict within.
Or who am I kidding? Perhaps when confronted with having to actually write an answer on a page, years of brainwashing will simply take control. Until they are bold enough to express it on paper, in free language, I don’t hold much hope. Would be fascinating to see where they’re currently at.
Amnesty International and Robert Amsterdam
The other group HRW today releases a report that is pretty damning towards government and UDD on human rights abuses. Wonder how that will go down
Hirsch on the “new geopolitics of Mekong dams”
One of the most interesting aspects of what has happened is the considerable amount of open Vietnamese government criticism/concerns about the Xayaburi dam. Many would not have predicted that, as behind-the-scenes communications and criticisms between Laos and Viet Nam are generally the norm. In fact, they are basically the rule. This was something quite unusual, whatever the final outcome may be.
The Nation vs WSJ
Not so long ago The Nation was one of the few papers to stand up against Thaksin, even foiling an attempt by Thaksin allies to buy it if I remember correctly.
The Nation vs WSJ
I am old enough to remember a time (October 1973) when The Nation was regarded as such a dangerously anti-government and progressive beacon of free speech that it was shut down by the military government of that era, prior to the student revolution of October 13-14. I left Thailand and didn’t return for 30 years, so can someone tell me how the amart managed to wrest control of this newspaper away from those courageous journalists of the past, and turn it into the lame puppet it is today?
New war in Kachin State?
@#25
It is absolutely irresponsible to be suggesting again ‘the sky is falling’
especially with the available info. on COMMAND/CONTROL system, honed by 2 dictatorships, posted here on the walls of New Mandala, that has worked for over 6 decades, without ANY historical fact to dispute otherwise.
Is there an iota of benefit to the citizenry plight immediately or otherwise in your quoted source?
http://www.irrawaddy.org/article.php?art_id=21203
Even if it happen as you have hoped, the assured examples of well documented past tragedies of soldiers fending off the citizenry back happening again ever cross you mind?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/161881
Please read 5 C again if not the whole document carefully.
The suggestions are all geared towards benefiting the citizenry immediately and long term.
Hirsch on the “new geopolitics of Mekong dams”
I don’t think Thailand and Laos are such unlikely bed fellows. Since Chatichai’s “battlefields into marketplaces” statement, what tension has there really been to suggest that they would be unlikely? And moreover, what is there to suggest that Cambodia and Vietnam are not integrating more? I think the analysis of the relations between the former Indochinese states and Thailand is rooted firmly in a rut. The rut is that we are only able to know the history of negative events. We don’t know how those issues were resolved for these states to keep floating along peacefully. Perhaps the relations are primarily determined by paranoia of each other, but isn’t there an element of paranoia in most (international) relationships?
I feel that the Xayaburi dam will go ahead, but with much stronger regulatory commitments from Laos. At least regulatory commitments… in writing.
Thanks for posting the Hirsch article.