Comments

  1. Paul says:

    Black Dog (soonuk dum) – Even if we all here adhere to your false dichotomy of “morality over democracy”, you still have to find a way to ensure that the monarchy is just and moral.

    Well, How?

    Politicians, as representatives of the electorate, should have the power to remove the corrupt monarchy, not the other way around.

  2. Ming says:

    Tarrin-20

    Yes, that’s right. Whenever the military’s involvement in Thai politics has been persistent, no wonder that Thai democracy will not work.

  3. Tarrin says:

    Soonuk Dum – 19

    I am supportive of a system that provides a means to remove corrupt and destructive administrations (e.g. military coups when necessary).

    Replace a corrupted administration with another equally (if not more) corrupted one trough undemocratic mean is not going to solve anything here, if you want to argue that the military is not corrupted then please. elaborate.

    Clearly your ideal of democracy – one man one vote doesn’t work.
    And remember a system needs to be in place now, not next week/year/decade.
    Is there is a viable alternative to the military? I don’t think so.

    Actually you are right, one man one vote will not work in case of Thailand, but not because the Thais are stupid or corrupted but because we never have the 5 principle of democracy in place that’s why one man one vote is never work here. You seems to suggested that because democracy is never works in Thailand that’s why there need to be an intervention, excuse that, its the other way around, because there’s this kind of intervention that’s why democracy is never works.

  4. zarni says:

    Mg Mg, Did Aung San not have the conviction in fighting for the cause of Burma’s liberation when he made a U-turn, first admiring the Japanese militarists and bringing home his Fascist “gods” – as Thakhin Kodaw Hmaing put it to him – and then going back to the irredeemably colonial Britain?

    Aung San himself wrote pointedly changing one’s position, view, etc is not simply a sign of wishy-washyness as a person grows up – and finds things which he has long held to be true to be less true or less convincing. A conviction is never a fixed, purist “thing” “existential experience”. It can manifest itself in different outwardly acts.

    It looks like Mg Mg has nothing intellectual substantive to say rather than calling others ‘chameleon’ who dare to act on their initiatives, however unpopular and, to think out of the box and to challenge any orthodoxy. Sounds like he is wearing his Japanese occupation-era “pair of green glasses” of “conviction” in judging others independent ideas, initiatives and acts.

    On courage, I will not say anything. Try jumping straight into the “tiger’s mouth” as it were after so many years of trying to do everything humanly possible to weaken the regime.

    Chameleons don’t get entrusted with a mission like looking for “arms and other types of concrete support” by no other than the KNU leaders and NCUB heads Bo Mya and Man Sher. There are still those who are alive who can verify this.

    Still I have the guts to do what I think was right. What was right 10 years ago may not necessarily be right now. If you are Burmese or other natives of Burma, and I think you are, do you still hold on to the popularly and strongly held belief (a conviction) – that women are inferior in intellect, character and essence – because Law-ka-niti says so?

    Courage is not something that people were born with or exists inside people like salt or sugar in a small bowl which one accesses with a spoon. It is one’s actions which bear signs of courage.

    Courage is to act on one’s clear conscience even in the face of verbal abuse, baseless attacks and mindless opposition from pathetically self-righteous, evidently closed- and narrow-minded morons like Mg Mg and Min Aung Naing. I don’t even know your true identities or what you have done to promote “the cause”, but I can confidently say your records of initiatives and impact will come nowhere near mine.

    Why don’t you grow up and do something meaningful with your life other than finger-point at others who have been trying to use his privileged positions and talents for change in Burma, whatever his strategies or tactics may be.

    Do I need moral approvals for guys like you who don’t even have balls to write in your own true identities, talking about courage?

    On the need to eat ask ex-Major Aung Lynn Htut in Washington who was ONE of my regime contacts whether he thought then and he thinks now that I showed any signs of cooptability or corruptibility.

    Why don’t you look into the mirror and search your soul and see if you have done anything with your life?

    Don’t show your fist while hiding your face in your skirt. Come out and challenge me openly, but do declare who you really are and what you have done and why you think you have the moral authority to pass judgment on others.

    The Chinese “communist” party buys people like you to sow confusions in Chinese chat rooms. Maybe there is a job for you there, if you can handle Mandarin.

    A penny a comment is the going rate. Give me a break.

  5. Soonuk Dum says:

    Tarrin – 17

    No, not Fascism at all. I am supportive of a system that provides a means to remove corrupt and destructive administrations (e.g. military coups when necessary).
    To balance the power of the military requires something perceived as higher, and that is the Monarchy.

    So, how do you propose that politicians be kept honest and in check?
    Clearly your ideal of democracy – one man one vote doesn’t work.
    And remember a system needs to be in place now, not next week/year/decade.
    Is there is a viable alternative to the military? I don’t think so.

  6. LesAbbey says:

    Ralph Kramden – 16

    It is always good to have the rightist perspective on Thai politics, as provided by Khun Dum. He makes the yellow-hued comments of other commentators seem all the more intelligent and even downright liberal in their politics.

    Hello Ralph, I’m not sure if you have over-applied brevity to your comment. Possibly it’s my own intellectual failings, but should I read the above paragraph as sarcasm, and if so against who? Is it against Khun Dum or those other commentators? Lastly, are the yellow-hued comments any comments that don’t support Thaksin?

  7. Maung Maung
    Well said, but they have to live and eat. You know there are many people like Daw Mya Mya Win and Dr Win Naing of Japan who opposed the SLORC/SPDC vehemently at first, but then they changed their stance and become cozy with the junta. It’s human or rather natural as they are not committed to the cause since the very beginning.

  8. Tarrin says:

    SteveCM -35

    I don’t know about the true intention but for me personally I think they were put there specifically to help Abhisit, same with what bring Chuan to power. Historically, no one ever got benefit from mass defect as much as the Democrat party. Sort of like the elite version of vote buying, but never got that much attention because elite can do no wrong.

  9. Tarrin says:

    Soonuk Dum – 15

    I hardly get emotional but more like sarcasm, anyway.

    A strong military with a strong leadership does indeed provide the balance
    required when politicians cannot be trusted.

    That’s simply fascism there, I think you are the one who miss the big picture here to see that the old Thailand governing regime is so broken that it could no longer retain the status quo. Politician cannot be trusted because the regime power structure made it so and unfortunately it was people like you that made all these possible because you think coup is the solution to everything. (why do you think there’s so corruption in Abhisit government yet Abhisit himself seems to not be able to do anything?) I’m not going to judge you here, you might favor fascism but I don’t.

    Two obvious examples are the 1991 coup against Chatichai – absolutely necessary,and the 2006 coup against Thaksin, again undeniably necessary for the survival of the country.

    That 1991 coup was what lead to the bloody May massacre, and somewhat indirectly lead to the economic crisis of 1997, necessary? I don’t know but every coup detat always bring what was supposedly lost during the reform of the 80s. As for 2006, survival of the country?? from what? incase you didn’t check the number our economy was doing great and corruption, believe it or not, was the lowest in the decade (yes even Abhisit cannot top that).

    Loyalty and honour are very powerful motivators of men (and women).
    This is something that seems to be missed by many on NM – the role of the Monarchy

    Monarchy got their influence on many things; economy, culture, and tradition. The relationship between the military and monarchy is somewhat complex and has been quite dynamic throughout 60 years reign. Before 1973, Monarchy relationship to the Military was more like a minor shareholder, got some power but not to the point where it can intervene with the military affair. However after 1992, the relationship shift and the Monarchy emerged as the major shareholder, now the Monarchy could be considered as the major power brokerage within the Army, if you dont believe me check how many top generals now came from the 2nd Division, you will be surprise.

    You yourself have confirmed this observation

    This becomes the governor of the military leadership. A leader who is not seen as loyal to the monarchy, will not be obeyed, and hence cannot lead a coup or hold on to power – witness the ousting of Suchinda.

    That is why I like to argue that the Monarch has absolute power in the regime.

  10. Maung Maung says:

    In politics especially in the fighting for a cause one needs conviction. A chameleon is not a true activist. I don’t think D Zarni can compare him with the NLD leader General Tin Oo. He does not have the latter’s conviction, tenacity and courage!

  11. Ralph Kramden says:

    It is always good to have the rightist perspective on Thai politics, as provided by Khun Dum. He makes the yellow-hued comments of other commentators seem all the more intelligent and even downright liberal in their politics.

    Thanks Khun Dum for the honesty you express in supporting the monarchy and the military as balancers and moral models. It is essential that all those engaged in political struggles in Thailand understand the extremists and their supporters.

    If only the military and monarchy could eliminate the blood that stains their history, especially since WW2. Maybe then they’d have even more support and could hang up the guns that repress.

  12. planB says:

    Nich

    Considering Benedict Roger’s as the author of “Unmaking Than Shwe” he is LUCKY to have been kicked out without much possible physical harm, on his last day of visit.

    May be he will like to change his view on Myanmar ‘as 50 million citizenry’ instead of fixation on Than Shwe as the mean to an end.

    Come to think of it, not being much above a YELLOW journalistic tendency, I for one and shall urge all New Mandala subscribers NOT to believe any of his assertions without corroborating evidences.

  13. Anyone can change their opinion as many times as they wish, they may change their ideology, their religion, their clothes, their shoes, where they live, their spouses etc etc.
    The way they blow their noses.

    It’s their lives, No??

    Being stuck is known as being dogmatic, “textual” “fundamentalist” didn’t you all know?

    At least Zarni has the courage to confront reality and to write about it.

    Criticizing is allowed in a free society as long as it’s all true. In fact, it’s a good thing.

    Enough said,

    Kyi May Kaung

  14. Zarni says:

    ah, the gainful stance for someone who doesn’t allow anything to shut his mouth would be to write normalizing pieces – or whitewash – an emerging military apartheid there.

    it’s getting late in Burma – with the Chinese, the Indians, the Thais, the Malaysians, the N. and S. Koreans all raking in big time – and western interests, save a few oil giants which are not brand-sensitive, are getting nervous about going home empty handed.

    then the regime decides to cross-dress and western interests look at the bell with self-intoxicating commercial lust.

    that’s really the crux of the emerging Burma narrative – the rest is icing.

    Imagine JEdgar Hoover, appeared cross-dressed in a pub near the FBI building in DC, and all the post-teenage boys, started whispering the not-too-bad idea of the cross-dressed, cross-legged Hoover up for the night.

    that doesn’t change the true sex – nature – of Hoover. but the dress was to be the lure. so, let’s focus on the dress and not look at the hairy legs, muscular arms, etc in the interest of a quick tango.

    and someone like me who has seen the beast close-up and says it’s Hoover with the male organ screams warnings.

    then the morons start saying that i change my narrative.

    ask John Maynard Keynes what he would have done each time his theory is contradicted by emerging realities or “data”.

    as with my Myanmar passport re-issued go and ask NLD Vice Chair U Tin Oo who was issued a passport to go to Singapore for medical treatment, or the NLD Youth traveling in the neighborhood what deals they have made with the regime.

    this kind of baseless insinuation makes me want to puke.

  15. Soonuk Dum says:

    Tarrin – 14

    Whilst you do make some emotional points, I think you miss the bigger picture.

    A strong military with a strong leadership does indeed provide the balance
    required when politicians cannot be trusted.

    Two obvious examples are the 1991 coup against Chatichai – absolutely necessary,
    and the 2006 coup against Thaksin, again undeniably necessary for the survival of the country.

    And remember the 1991 coup installed Anand Panyarachun as PM, unarguably one of the best Prime Ministers Thailand has ever had.

    Where things fall down of course is when the military leadership looses it’s way as we saw with Suchinda Kraprayoon. It was a very just and necessary coup, and if Suchinda had not gone power crazy, would have probably been looked at now quite fondly as the last ever coup.

    So the question becomes one of how do we ensure the military leadership is just and moral?

    The answer of course is the Monarchy.

    Loyalty and honour are very powerful motivators of men (and women).
    This is something that seems to be missed by many on NM – the role of the Monarchy
    is not to rule absolutely, but to provide a symbol that all in the nation can pledge allegiance to.
    This becomes the governor of the military leadership. A leader who is not seen as loyal to the monarchy, will not be obeyed, and hence cannot lead a coup or hold on to power – witness the ousting of Suchinda.

  16. SteveCM says:

    c34

    Thanks, Tarrin – I missed that. Do you think the lifting of the 3-months before voting restriction was intended to allow defection for PM election? Certainly seems to have worked to benefit Abhisit Inc.

  17. Tarrin says:

    SteveCM – 33

    And, yes – I’m aware that others have done the same.

    The different between now and then is that the 1997 constitution prohibit the MP from voting in the parliament right after they change the party, they need to stay at a certain party for 3 months before they can cast their vote again which somewhat mitigated MP vote buying. Of cause, the 2007 constitution reintroduced the pre-1997 constitution concept again.

  18. Tarrin says:

    Soonuk Dum – 13

    Like it or not, the military IS the balance that ensures a form of stability.
    Without them, the country would indeed be a mess.

    That is just wrong is so in many levels, “military is the balance” ??? balance what?? for who?? are we in anyway more stable now after the their intervention in 2006?

    Do you think we can trust the organization that bought a hundred APC with no engines, the useless piece of plastic to detect bombs, a 40 years old outdated submarine, and fighter jet that cost whooping 3 times the fly away cost???? if you think they can somehow “stabilized” anything with such an awesome track record then god bless, we are going to need it.

  19. Don Persons says:

    I met him in Chiang Mai once. There are others like him. They too were confused.

  20. Fish says:

    Amazing to find out someone you knew through a friend had an incredible history, and had such an impact in the area we live.

    RIP