Thanks for this lengthy and dull depiction of the communist fairs…as an european living in laos, and well remembering the joyous days of the post-war URSS, I can feel the thrill of big brother passing here. Of course, it has came with some amateurship blinks that allow complascent journos, naive tourists and comfort-seeking expatriates alike to raise laude to this kind of great mass.
I wonder what are the intention of the author of this article….Is really naive or simply lack capabilities to render the situation? What is the point to write such loggohrea, pretending to a neutral and distanciated look, since he is just bumping in the regime rethoric?
‘Panem et circenses’ : in ancient Roma, the elites rules by giving the lower classes Games (mediteranean, not SEA’s) and Bred (food was distributed during celebrations).
In modern Laos, the elites are selling the country to the West (Nam Theun2), to Thai inerests, to their vietnamese pals and, perhaps less comfortably, to their Chinese neighbours. Since they have abosultely no economic clout whatsoever- but securing their own interests and family power, what is left to them to show off? Games…and with that accommodating the most rancid nationalist stances with a varnish of modern technology, so as to lure more of their citizen in a chimeric ‘Dream country’ where everything is fine.
It’s a pity that the text (can’t be an article can it?) don’t offer a more balanced account of the events. Too diffiult to find the ral cost of such spolit infrastructure that will never been used twice? Too far of a difficulty to inquire on on-going illegal logging, mining concessions without independant environmental studies, gaming industry, prostitution, illegal migrants, AIDS, illiteracy, socio-economics problems linked to Nam Thoeun 2?
Better to focus on the glitter and strass of the regime, fairs…Typically Asian! or perhaps did I miss the second degree irony in the report?
If indeed some parties did set up the trap for Anwar Ibrahim and he walked into it, how come I don’t see any video clips or pictures? Even Chua Soi Lek, who was not trapped but had sex with his “friend” on his own free will, had his sexual encounter video taped due to internal party rivalry.
As for the rest, such as the leaks on the Malaysian leadership being confused and incompetent and the Thai Crown Prince being erratic, these aren’t news.
We Thais are too aware of our country’s instability. No need to remind us of that. Such is Thailand’s fate. Rebirth is quite impossible because the majority of Thais are deep in the occult. They easily get excited about something seemingly divine while ignoring the reality of life.
I beg to differ about the worldwide recession circa 2001-2003. The World Trade Center attacks of 11 September 2001, and the subsequent counterproductive nationalistic reactions of the United States, did trigger a global if short turn economic downturn.
I do not believe your assertion that the Democrat party are due the major credit for the economic boom that was fully evident by 2004, it was Thaksin’s populist policies of easy credit that allowed huge numbers of Thai farmers to go out and buy a pickup truck or invest in more livestock.
“…MALAYSIAN opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim’s sodomy charges are the result of a ”set- up job” which the politician ”walked into”, according to an assessment by Australia’s peak intelligence agency. A leaked US state department cable reveals that Singaporean intelligence officials told their Australian counterparts that Dr Anwar engaged in the conduct for which he is accused, a claim he has steadfastly denied.
Australia’s Office of National Intelligence also states the conduct was the result of entrapment by Dr Anwar’s enemies.”
She claimed to have gone to Palestine as a teenager, but it is doubtful as there are no records anywhere that she took such a trip. See Susan Morgan, Bombay Anna (2008). So the answer is: nobody knows conclusively, although after extensive research, scholars such as Morgan doubt she went there. It is thought also that may have made up a trip she claimed to have taken to Angkor Wat.
With all due respect to Giles – his personal integrity, his extremely elite background (Oxford, Chulalongkorn, highly respected elite family, etc.) – I nonetheless find Nick Nostitz far more informative. Nick is right there, on the ground, mixing with all – prai, amaat, pu noi, high-so, lo-so, police, military, red, yellows, and everyone in between, etc.
Nick is following the flow of this incredibly complicated, dynamic, fluid situation. In contrast Giles seems constantly trying to slot everything into his ideological strait-jacket – eg. his total lack of subtlety about the shifting balance of power in the Military-Palace equation. For a Marxist, he’s incredibly undialectical !
Giles has been out of Thailand too long – and has always consigned himself to extremely marginal positions. What he accuses other Thai exiles of, applies every bit to himself.
Andreas #5 – it would be wonderful if your fantasy were realised. But, unfortunately, the requisite “learning phase” is rather too large, and we certainly wouldn’t be able to judge whether it had taken place on the basis of mere rhetoric, the stuff of which the “normal politician” is made. If he were to continue to be the normal Thai politician, surrounded by other normal Thai politicians (as we know them from the present & all past governments), there might be marginal improvements for some, due to his superior administrative skills, but certainly not enough to bring in a situation of “power of the people.”
“If one of the leaked cables ever suggests that the U.S. does not have faith in Burma’s opposition and Suu Kyi, that could seriously undermine her.”
Dom #1
It is already done with the ‘uncles’ thingy about NLD, that repeatedly claim Daw Aung San Suu Kyi as the ultimate decision maker, the organization that USA base their air tight resolution against SPDC.
Your aspiration to “rule of law” among the lawless or rather law @ the barrel of Guns as in Myanmar, is admirable.
Supporting a person blindly will just play into the hands of SPDC proven the last 3 decades.
Do you see the “rule of law” being espoused by SPDC 2┬║ to Daw Aung San Suu Kyi?
Does any one here think recent DPRK insolent aggressive response towards ROK is not related to an embolden Kim?
Before reestablishing all out diplomatic relation with Myanmar, DPRK is a country that barely make enough Kim Chee to feed its own population, unlike from China now has the vastest resources SEA ascertained by SPDC in exchange for armament!
Making offering of “Heavy Crude” as incentive to 6 parties talk beyond: IDIOTIC bordering on STUPIDITY.
2+ year later with DPRK as the only closest friendly country as evidence and vise versa, USA whose authority the west base their decision on Myanmar is still not following through the on the ground recommendation of own expert.
What next?
When the nuke is in Myanmar it really won’t matter to USA and the west would’nt it?
After all, the policy reserved for that very future is already in place for the last 3 decades.
Stupid is stupid does while the rest, the most vulnerable have to pay more for it!
Whilst it is easy to latch on to a disparaging comment on the NLD, a very welcome stick to bludgeon the main opposition group with for certain people, this is old news to the Burmese people not just to the regime. Common perception at the time.
The game has changed since the release of ASSK, and even before that after Tin Oo and Win Tin got out, with ex-army loyalist leaders like Aung Shwe, who have displayed so much inertia and timidity, sidelined.
The senior Embassy official Leslie Hayden herself was indulging in a bit of wishful thinking on the off chance of the regime taking genuine positive steps regarding national reconciliation in its true sense. This line of engagement is just not the kind the generals want to contemplate even for one moment, and they have made no attempt to conceal that stance from anyone. So it’s not their fault if some of us choose to remain obtuse. I guess from one perspective there’s just no alternative but keep banging on about it short of a regime change policy.
Some of the generals might be more receptive to guarantees of security of both their persons and their wealth in exchange for breaking ranks. A line definitely worth pursuing, first through some intermediary and then directly.
The popular struggle itself has a momentum of its own given the continued repression, injustice and more crucially economic dire straits, leaders or no. The question is who can effectively harness it and lead it to victory come the fire next time. The wheel of history waits for no leader, and at this rate Burma will erupt once again; it’s only a matter of time, not if but when.
Thanks for the link to the wikicables. Let me highlight some of the other points in them.
Though most Burmese do not believe the NLD will be able to bring about democratic change, at least while ASSK is under house arrest, they have not given up on working for democracy. Instead, they are taking matters into their own hands and creatively working in what space is available to improve the lives of their communities.
It is not in the nature of a popular struggle to give up, leaders or no.
Leslie Hayden urged the need for being willing to gradually remove sanctions in exchange for true steps toward dialogue and political change.
‘True’ is the operative word here.
Large rewards should come only with large compromises, such as lifting the visa ban if they release Aung San Suu Kyi.
No dice since no release before 7 November.
Allowing international election monitors, lifting laws that restrict free and fair debate, and freeing key political prisoners could be tied to lifting specific sanctions.
Did that ever happen? You might say she was indulging in a bit of wishful thinking herself.
Your generals continue to do a very good job of vilifying themselves and need no help whatsoever. Shame the scales have not fallen off their eyes, nor yours for that matter.
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Wikileaks, Thaksin and the Crown Prince
Luecha Na Malai – 2
Dont be so pessimistic, we are seeing that many Thais have awaked from their illusion, have some fate.
Country marketing in Laos
Thanks for this lengthy and dull depiction of the communist fairs…as an european living in laos, and well remembering the joyous days of the post-war URSS, I can feel the thrill of big brother passing here. Of course, it has came with some amateurship blinks that allow complascent journos, naive tourists and comfort-seeking expatriates alike to raise laude to this kind of great mass.
I wonder what are the intention of the author of this article….Is really naive or simply lack capabilities to render the situation? What is the point to write such loggohrea, pretending to a neutral and distanciated look, since he is just bumping in the regime rethoric?
‘Panem et circenses’ : in ancient Roma, the elites rules by giving the lower classes Games (mediteranean, not SEA’s) and Bred (food was distributed during celebrations).
In modern Laos, the elites are selling the country to the West (Nam Theun2), to Thai inerests, to their vietnamese pals and, perhaps less comfortably, to their Chinese neighbours. Since they have abosultely no economic clout whatsoever- but securing their own interests and family power, what is left to them to show off? Games…and with that accommodating the most rancid nationalist stances with a varnish of modern technology, so as to lure more of their citizen in a chimeric ‘Dream country’ where everything is fine.
It’s a pity that the text (can’t be an article can it?) don’t offer a more balanced account of the events. Too diffiult to find the ral cost of such spolit infrastructure that will never been used twice? Too far of a difficulty to inquire on on-going illegal logging, mining concessions without independant environmental studies, gaming industry, prostitution, illegal migrants, AIDS, illiteracy, socio-economics problems linked to Nam Thoeun 2?
Better to focus on the glitter and strass of the regime, fairs…Typically Asian! or perhaps did I miss the second degree irony in the report?
Wikileaks, Thaksin and the Crown Prince
If indeed some parties did set up the trap for Anwar Ibrahim and he walked into it, how come I don’t see any video clips or pictures? Even Chua Soi Lek, who was not trapped but had sex with his “friend” on his own free will, had his sexual encounter video taped due to internal party rivalry.
As for the rest, such as the leaks on the Malaysian leadership being confused and incompetent and the Thai Crown Prince being erratic, these aren’t news.
Wikileaks, Thaksin and the Crown Prince
Sorry – but I like Thailand’s “very erratic” Crown Prince.
He’s very “sanook”, and I think therefore endearing to the Thai people !
Wikileaks, Thaksin and the Crown Prince
Maybe some red faces rather than red shirts here today.
Wikileaks, Thaksin and the Crown Prince
Bilahari is in breach of lese majeste here…very serious for Singapore’s top diplomat
Wikileaks, Thaksin and the Crown Prince
We Thais are too aware of our country’s instability. No need to remind us of that. Such is Thailand’s fate. Rebirth is quite impossible because the majority of Thais are deep in the occult. They easily get excited about something seemingly divine while ignoring the reality of life.
Is it really saying the unsayable?
I beg to differ about the worldwide recession circa 2001-2003. The World Trade Center attacks of 11 September 2001, and the subsequent counterproductive nationalistic reactions of the United States, did trigger a global if short turn economic downturn.
I do not believe your assertion that the Democrat party are due the major credit for the economic boom that was fully evident by 2004, it was Thaksin’s populist policies of easy credit that allowed huge numbers of Thai farmers to go out and buy a pickup truck or invest in more livestock.
Wikileaks, Thaksin and the Crown Prince
Anwar Ibrahim is in trouble!
“…MALAYSIAN opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim’s sodomy charges are the result of a ”set- up job” which the politician ”walked into”, according to an assessment by Australia’s peak intelligence agency. A leaked US state department cable reveals that Singaporean intelligence officials told their Australian counterparts that Dr Anwar engaged in the conduct for which he is accused, a claim he has steadfastly denied.
Australia’s Office of National Intelligence also states the conduct was the result of entrapment by Dr Anwar’s enemies.”
Read here
Surveillance in Burma
planB,
Your defense of the generals – defending the indefensible – is really starting to make you resemble ‘Baghdad Bob’
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Bob
Have you given any thought to writing a book?
Review of Bombay Anna
She claimed to have gone to Palestine as a teenager, but it is doubtful as there are no records anywhere that she took such a trip. See Susan Morgan, Bombay Anna (2008). So the answer is: nobody knows conclusively, although after extensive research, scholars such as Morgan doubt she went there. It is thought also that may have made up a trip she claimed to have taken to Angkor Wat.
Review of Bombay Anna
Can I ask about one aspect of her life, mentioned in the Wiki entry?
Her visit to Palestine. Any details by anyone?
In the wake of attacks on Wikileaks…
I’m curious as to how the Thai government plans to handle the latest cables leaked to The Age revealing Singaporean official criticising the Thai Crown Prince as erratic and stating that Thaksin made a mistake in paying off the Crown Prince’s gambling debts (http://www.theage.com.au/world/top-singapore-officials-trash-the-neighbours-20101211-18thg.html)
Red Shirts and real change
With all due respect to Giles – his personal integrity, his extremely elite background (Oxford, Chulalongkorn, highly respected elite family, etc.) – I nonetheless find Nick Nostitz far more informative. Nick is right there, on the ground, mixing with all – prai, amaat, pu noi, high-so, lo-so, police, military, red, yellows, and everyone in between, etc.
Nick is following the flow of this incredibly complicated, dynamic, fluid situation. In contrast Giles seems constantly trying to slot everything into his ideological strait-jacket – eg. his total lack of subtlety about the shifting balance of power in the Military-Palace equation. For a Marxist, he’s incredibly undialectical !
Giles has been out of Thailand too long – and has always consigned himself to extremely marginal positions. What he accuses other Thai exiles of, applies every bit to himself.
Red Shirts and real change
Story not accessible in Thailand.
Red Shirts and real change
Andreas #5 – it would be wonderful if your fantasy were realised. But, unfortunately, the requisite “learning phase” is rather too large, and we certainly wouldn’t be able to judge whether it had taken place on the basis of mere rhetoric, the stuff of which the “normal politician” is made. If he were to continue to be the normal Thai politician, surrounded by other normal Thai politicians (as we know them from the present & all past governments), there might be marginal improvements for some, due to his superior administrative skills, but certainly not enough to bring in a situation of “power of the people.”
Mainland Southeast Asia and Wikileaks
“If one of the leaked cables ever suggests that the U.S. does not have faith in Burma’s opposition and Suu Kyi, that could seriously undermine her.”
Dom #1
It is already done with the ‘uncles’ thingy about NLD, that repeatedly claim Daw Aung San Suu Kyi as the ultimate decision maker, the organization that USA base their air tight resolution against SPDC.
Your aspiration to “rule of law” among the lawless or rather law @ the barrel of Guns as in Myanmar, is admirable.
Supporting a person blindly will just play into the hands of SPDC proven the last 3 decades.
Do you see the “rule of law” being espoused by SPDC 2┬║ to Daw Aung San Suu Kyi?
Candid details from Wikileaks about Burma
Nich
Does any one here think recent DPRK insolent aggressive response towards ROK is not related to an embolden Kim?
Before reestablishing all out diplomatic relation with Myanmar, DPRK is a country that barely make enough Kim Chee to feed its own population, unlike from China now has the vastest resources SEA ascertained by SPDC in exchange for armament!
Making offering of “Heavy Crude” as incentive to 6 parties talk beyond: IDIOTIC bordering on STUPIDITY.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/161881
13c onward is clearly spelled out since Jul 2008.
2+ year later with DPRK as the only closest friendly country as evidence and vise versa, USA whose authority the west base their decision on Myanmar is still not following through the on the ground recommendation of own expert.
What next?
When the nuke is in Myanmar it really won’t matter to USA and the west would’nt it?
After all, the policy reserved for that very future is already in place for the last 3 decades.
Stupid is stupid does while the rest, the most vulnerable have to pay more for it!
Candid details from Wikileaks about Burma
Whilst it is easy to latch on to a disparaging comment on the NLD, a very welcome stick to bludgeon the main opposition group with for certain people, this is old news to the Burmese people not just to the regime. Common perception at the time.
The game has changed since the release of ASSK, and even before that after Tin Oo and Win Tin got out, with ex-army loyalist leaders like Aung Shwe, who have displayed so much inertia and timidity, sidelined.
The senior Embassy official Leslie Hayden herself was indulging in a bit of wishful thinking on the off chance of the regime taking genuine positive steps regarding national reconciliation in its true sense. This line of engagement is just not the kind the generals want to contemplate even for one moment, and they have made no attempt to conceal that stance from anyone. So it’s not their fault if some of us choose to remain obtuse. I guess from one perspective there’s just no alternative but keep banging on about it short of a regime change policy.
Some of the generals might be more receptive to guarantees of security of both their persons and their wealth in exchange for breaking ranks. A line definitely worth pursuing, first through some intermediary and then directly.
The popular struggle itself has a momentum of its own given the continued repression, injustice and more crucially economic dire straits, leaders or no. The question is who can effectively harness it and lead it to victory come the fire next time. The wheel of history waits for no leader, and at this rate Burma will erupt once again; it’s only a matter of time, not if but when.
Surveillance in Burma
plan B,
Thanks for the link to the wikicables. Let me highlight some of the other points in them.
Though most Burmese do not believe the NLD will be able to bring about democratic change, at least while ASSK is under house arrest, they have not given up on working for democracy. Instead, they are taking matters into their own hands and creatively working in what space is available to improve the lives of their communities.
It is not in the nature of a popular struggle to give up, leaders or no.
Leslie Hayden urged the need for being willing to gradually remove sanctions in exchange for true steps toward dialogue and political change.
‘True’ is the operative word here.
Large rewards should come only with large compromises, such as lifting the visa ban if they release Aung San Suu Kyi.
No dice since no release before 7 November.
Allowing international election monitors, lifting laws that restrict free and fair debate, and freeing key political prisoners could be tied to lifting specific sanctions.
Did that ever happen? You might say she was indulging in a bit of wishful thinking herself.
Your generals continue to do a very good job of vilifying themselves and need no help whatsoever. Shame the scales have not fallen off their eyes, nor yours for that matter.