PAD is openly trying to dictate the policies of Abhisit and threatening to “unseat” him if he does not comply. I would call that pretty fascist. And these are words coming from the leaders of PAD, not a small insignificant fraction.
You can call UDD’s occupation of Bangkok’s central district, to demand elections and push for an end of a biased judiciary, fascist. But this was done after PAD set a precedent that this was a legitimate method to enforce a change of government.
Firstly, Alex is correct in saying that the majority of ‘clients’ are from various Asian backgrounds, not western. Get your facts straight before making claims because you just look stupid and other ignorants reading this may believe its true.
Secondly, your assertion that a woman can’t be coerced into prostitution since prostitution is legal is ridiculous beyond words. The legality of the work is a completely separate matter to whether the girl has chosen to do it or not.
Yes there are many women who come to Singapore and voluntarily prostitute themselves. But thats not the issue at hand – the concern here is for the trafficked girls.
Do you care at all for what these victims go through or are you still sitting up their on your high horse claiming it doesn’t exist?
It is your lady that need to apologize to the Citizenry:
1)Squandering the ethnic support then Botching her victory by not securing the Tamadaw instead let loose revenge seekers like yourself.
2)Bringing the weight of the west/sanctions on to the citizenry shoulders all by herself and completely ignore the consequences.
3) Never use her accolades to speak out on her followers behalf who now are still festering in Insein for her sake!
4) Misrepresenting herself as the cure all for Myanmar complex problems. Using the same SPDC’s law, to shamelessly preventing NDF from contesting.
May be then she can be forgiven and not squirm every time the western media lie, on her behalf concerning “she has the support of the citizenry of Myanmar.
In recent times we have twice seen the public in large numbers, (well at least those in Bangkok), support a military coup against the government. That would have been with Suchinda’s coup against the Chatchai government and the 2006 coup against the Thaksin caretaker government. At the moment I’m not hearing much public support for a coup against the Abhisit government so I’m not expecting one any time soon.
The big problem comes after the next election with the possibility of a returning Thaksin. Could Thaksin cut a deal with Prayuth, and what would be the price? Would the PAD be powerful enough to cause problems with such a deal? Of course in my perfect storm scenario this would coincide with a royal succession.
Are the PAD fascist? I suspect you could find a small number of people in it that are pretty close to that sort of ideology. Then again I suspect I could find the same in the UDD. An interesting way of looking at it would be to see the various groups attitudes to minority ethnic groups. On that all I know is that there seems to be a dislike by Muslims of the UDD and Thaksin. Whether that is reciprocated I have no idea.
@Nich,
Vimeo is not blocked. But alas, you are right. the internet is never usually strong enough to stream videos. You can of course do it, but you usually need to leave a couple hours for something to load… you are right that the mp3 version is a much more manageable format.
It was no Freudian slip nor a subversive slip but the Post eventually realizing the truth. I have been calling them that for 4 years so I didn’t notice it!
I don’t think that the Abhisit government is fascist, but I do believe that PAD is. And I can assure you that they will not be calling for any elections. In fact, they are calling for another military coup to overthrow the Abhisit government.
And thankfully no one has yet to object to the above comments on the grounds of racism. Here we actually have some of the root causes of why there isn’t a single (even slightly) meaningful democracy in the whole region. As such, it is more insightful than a whole decade of blowhard New Mandalaite comment on the relative goodness and badness of the shirts and their god awful sponsors.
I agree wholeheartedly with your comment and this is coming from a Thai! (NOTE: I was born and raised outside of Thailand for the majority of my life, so maybe not so sensational.)
I’ve often thought to myself that Thais on the surface might appear this passive and serene people, but in actual fact they appear to engage in a daily routine of selfish quid pro quo!
This manifests itself in many ways from the garage owner spreading engine parts and oil all over the pavement, to the mindless parking of a motorbike in a space which could fit an SUV and my personal favourite, at an intersection, moving a car a further 10inches forward so as to successfully block a 3 way junction!
I don’t know what causes this mentality? I myself have succumbed to it, double parking while my wife went to grab some Kow Tom.
Maybe it is the “sabai sabai” mentality which means you go with the flow, don’t want to be seen as difficult or rocking the boat, but this as tragically witnessed in Cambodia, can result in preventable accidents and tragedy.
Daw Than Than Nu definitely is light-weight compared to her father U Nu the greatest politician modern Burma has ever seen.
In the 1960 elections U Nu didn’t need the campaign trucks nor the volunteers. What he needed only was his beaming photograph on the ballot-box for his faction Clean AFPFL.
In most towns and major villages where the voting took place the Stable AFPFL faction with the heavily visible support of Ne Win’s Army had not only bought the votes but they also used the army trucks to ferry the whole village to the pooling booths in nearby towns and they even fed the peasants before the votes.
They thought they had the votes of seemingly ignorant peasants firmly in their pockets.
But to their dismay the poor peasants especially the older ones, once they came down from the lofty army trucks and inside the booth, sat down in front of U Nu’s photo, kowtow (shit-kho) to it, at the same time calling U Nu aloud The Future Lord Buddha, and put their ballots into U Nu’s box.
Despite all their promises to vote for others. Despite the money they took before for that promise. Despite the fact that they had to vote under the bayoneted-rifles of the soldiers guarding the booth.
That scene was repeated hundred of thousands of times all over rural Burma and the result was U Nu’s landslide victory.
How about this example: Drivers who refuse to yield to ambulances. I cannot comprehend it. What are they thinking?
In the crowd control situation, how could police officers possibly think that turning water cannons on an enclosed crowd would help the crowd speed along?
Looking for scapegoats (e. g. commercial interests or the government) in such tragedies is a waste of effort. It might provide jobs for lawyers and journalists, but the answer lies in the impersonal science and engineering of crowd behaviour.
Obviously thoughtless people at Lotus Tesco leaving their carts in the aisles is a different kettle of fish, but generally speaking there seems to be little social consciousness in the region. People pay symbolic respect in public, but especially here in Thailand they display the most overt selfishness imaginable in many public situations – traffic in streets and on sidewalks only two examples.
If individuals campaign rigorously, municipalities will respond, but unless that campaigning is continuous and meaningful, the authorities will back off and things will revert to abominable.
The hundreds of deaths on the Cambodian bridge could have been prevented, but were not. In Thailand, the streets and sidewalks could be made much safer but no one wants to inhibit greed and selfishness in themselves or others.
During the recent flooding in Korat, the authorities watched silently as market vendors occupied main roadways and in some cases completely cut off feeder lanes because their regular locations were flooded. If there was any emergency, no one would be able to get through the throngs of merchants.
Thai authorities will just not do what it takes to manage communities.
Beyond my forever indebtedness to the Citizenry of Myanmar I owe no one anything!
As for “the Lady”
She dose not deserve much of that has been doled out to her.
Neither does the citizenry due to the west’s policies.
No empty accolades by the west bestow her is ever going to redeem anything for the simple fact of Res Ipsa Loquitur:
“The useless careless policy made matter worst for the citizenry”.
No contest on where military belong.
You, I and Ko Hla Oo as well as most expats here know the immediate aftermath of her victory.
That critical period between her being declared/celebrtaed winners and the unspeakable onslaught of SLOR.
Critical major mistake of NOT SECURING THE GUNS/sections of Tamadaw that she can and was at her disposal.
Instead she choose her still on going present stance and let her supporters who crave revenge, just like you, run amok in the streets of Yangon.
Knowing she has squandered her support from the ethnic groups that gave her the super majority she turn to the west blindly,a Burmese anathema.
As proof the NDF which has 16 members elected that is against SPDC, was almost not to be, 2╦Ъ to her law suit by NLD under her auspices.
Hmmm
Using SPDC’s law to shut down another viable party that has ex NLD member!
As long as transgressions like these are white washed akin to the west white washing the effect of their policies your claim of Daw AUn San Suu Kyi support within Myanmar rings hallow.
They are hoping to have the sanctions lifted after the release of ASSK even if they’d had to do it anyway in the absence of a plausible excuse to continue her detention. She’s a bargaining chip, but they have no intention of releasing the other political prisoners.
Notice the permissive atmosphere her party enjoyed in the run up to the election in relation to its boycott campaign. The generals were happy it was out of the race, determined to manufacture the outcome they desired regardless. But how much latitude they will allow her to achieve any goal in the scheme of things personally is already seen from this HIV/AIDS shelter visit episode. People are defying eviction BTW.
I reckon the generals are biding their time happy to wait and see for the time being before they decide the West is not going to be compliant and make their next move.
Than Shwe hasn’t the same aura or authority as Ne Win. The glue that binds them together is naturally self interest in enriching themselves and the fear of retribution. It’s very likely they will break ranks once they feel assured of a good deal on the table brokered and guaranteed by the West. It’s worth pursuing a war of attrition on the part of the US and the EU. But they should also be prepared to back the army dissenters (should they decide to defect to the opposition with their men) in the event of a mutiny and civil war.
Any news concerning Myanmar will surely be under these 2 premises for the westerner consumers.
1) Daw Aung San Suu Kyi is good SPDC is bad no matter what.
2) The sky is about to fall and cause the expected changes, whether 2╦Ъ to the Tamadaw or ethnic unrest.
As you can see none of the 2 premises reveal the true sentiment of The Citizenry.
My request to Nic was to hopefully reveal the status of common citizenry, not just the segment Daw Aung San Suu Kyi has chosen to visit.
Knowing her passive aggressive stance towards the present foe at any cause you can be certain that any of her acts that create controversy is exactly what she is hoping all the bias western media will do.
The usual speculations of the past 2 decades unfounded, but absolutely skirting the west useless careless approach that has blighted the well beings and hope of ALL CITIZENRY.
Myanmar Citizenry Plight is much more than what has been projected by almost all western media as:
Daw Aung San Suu Kyi vs SPDC
New Mandala’s has not jump on that wagon.
As for the question on AID as a pointer for the health care status of Myanmar, besides blaming the SPDC for it share what has Myanmar received from WHO or any organization besides JAPAN assistance in minimizing that scourge, let say compare to the neighbors??
In New Mandala you can find the reference by Turnell & Vicary bold assertions of “Why Health care aid for Myanmar ” is useless.
Aung Si BTW is a wonderful name – the victory drum. Were you named by your grandfather? I wonder if you also have a brother called Aung Moung – the victory gong.
Elections are like gold dust in Burma, and the people are always very keen whenever a chance to vote presents itself. The difference however between the one previous in 1990 and the last one was clearly seen by the majority of the people. This does not mean they will not welcome another chance in a few years’ time.
I should hope to see Aung Si pick up the banner to continue the fight when his mother decides to retire from what little politics she’s been able to engage in over the decades of military rule. I am sure the dawning of a pluralistic society in our country is not far off despite the generals. The more the merrier, let a hundred flowers bloom and all that. Good luck.
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How hardline have the redshirts become?
LesAbbey – 38
PAD is openly trying to dictate the policies of Abhisit and threatening to “unseat” him if he does not comply. I would call that pretty fascist. And these are words coming from the leaders of PAD, not a small insignificant fraction.
You can call UDD’s occupation of Bangkok’s central district, to demand elections and push for an end of a biased judiciary, fascist. But this was done after PAD set a precedent that this was a legitimate method to enforce a change of government.
The logic of lese majeste
David Streckfuss has interview dated 25 November 2010 in Pracharat Turakij, appearing though today on Prachatai here – http://www.prachatai3.info/journal/2010/11/32040
It’s in Thai.
How hardline have the redshirts become?
Tarrin 33
I hope that you are right, but I remain a little sceptical. You see grassroots; I still see astroturf.
Sex trafficking in Singapore
Takeo your ignorance is astounding.
Firstly, Alex is correct in saying that the majority of ‘clients’ are from various Asian backgrounds, not western. Get your facts straight before making claims because you just look stupid and other ignorants reading this may believe its true.
Secondly, your assertion that a woman can’t be coerced into prostitution since prostitution is legal is ridiculous beyond words. The legality of the work is a completely separate matter to whether the girl has chosen to do it or not.
Yes there are many women who come to Singapore and voluntarily prostitute themselves. But thats not the issue at hand – the concern here is for the trafficked girls.
Do you care at all for what these victims go through or are you still sitting up their on your high horse claiming it doesn’t exist?
Burma commentary, with more to come
Ko Moe Aung
Hmm apology?
I own none such especially to The Irrawaddy.
It is your lady that need to apologize to the Citizenry:
1)Squandering the ethnic support then Botching her victory by not securing the Tamadaw instead let loose revenge seekers like yourself.
2)Bringing the weight of the west/sanctions on to the citizenry shoulders all by herself and completely ignore the consequences.
3) Never use her accolades to speak out on her followers behalf who now are still festering in Insein for her sake!
4) Misrepresenting herself as the cure all for Myanmar complex problems. Using the same SPDC’s law, to shamelessly preventing NDF from contesting.
May be then she can be forgiven and not squirm every time the western media lie, on her behalf concerning “she has the support of the citizenry of Myanmar.
How hardline have the redshirts become?
In recent times we have twice seen the public in large numbers, (well at least those in Bangkok), support a military coup against the government. That would have been with Suchinda’s coup against the Chatchai government and the 2006 coup against the Thaksin caretaker government. At the moment I’m not hearing much public support for a coup against the Abhisit government so I’m not expecting one any time soon.
The big problem comes after the next election with the possibility of a returning Thaksin. Could Thaksin cut a deal with Prayuth, and what would be the price? Would the PAD be powerful enough to cause problems with such a deal? Of course in my perfect storm scenario this would coincide with a royal succession.
Are the PAD fascist? I suspect you could find a small number of people in it that are pretty close to that sort of ideology. Then again I suspect I could find the same in the UDD. An interesting way of looking at it would be to see the various groups attitudes to minority ethnic groups. On that all I know is that there seems to be a dislike by Muslims of the UDD and Thaksin. Whether that is reciprocated I have no idea.
Burma votes 2010 – Episode 3
@Nich,
Vimeo is not blocked. But alas, you are right. the internet is never usually strong enough to stream videos. You can of course do it, but you usually need to leave a couple hours for something to load… you are right that the mp3 version is a much more manageable format.
People’s Alliance against Democracy
It was no Freudian slip nor a subversive slip but the Post eventually realizing the truth. I have been calling them that for 4 years so I didn’t notice it!
How hardline have the redshirts become?
LesAbbey – 25
I don’t think that the Abhisit government is fascist, but I do believe that PAD is. And I can assure you that they will not be calling for any elections. In fact, they are calling for another military coup to overthrow the Abhisit government.
Prelude to the bridge tragedy
And thankfully no one has yet to object to the above comments on the grounds of racism. Here we actually have some of the root causes of why there isn’t a single (even slightly) meaningful democracy in the whole region. As such, it is more insightful than a whole decade of blowhard New Mandalaite comment on the relative goodness and badness of the shirts and their god awful sponsors.
Prelude to the bridge tragedy
@Frank
I agree wholeheartedly with your comment and this is coming from a Thai! (NOTE: I was born and raised outside of Thailand for the majority of my life, so maybe not so sensational.)
I’ve often thought to myself that Thais on the surface might appear this passive and serene people, but in actual fact they appear to engage in a daily routine of selfish quid pro quo!
This manifests itself in many ways from the garage owner spreading engine parts and oil all over the pavement, to the mindless parking of a motorbike in a space which could fit an SUV and my personal favourite, at an intersection, moving a car a further 10inches forward so as to successfully block a 3 way junction!
I don’t know what causes this mentality? I myself have succumbed to it, double parking while my wife went to grab some Kow Tom.
Maybe it is the “sabai sabai” mentality which means you go with the flow, don’t want to be seen as difficult or rocking the boat, but this as tragically witnessed in Cambodia, can result in preventable accidents and tragedy.
Myanmar elections: Notes from the campaign trail
Daw Than Than Nu definitely is light-weight compared to her father U Nu the greatest politician modern Burma has ever seen.
In the 1960 elections U Nu didn’t need the campaign trucks nor the volunteers. What he needed only was his beaming photograph on the ballot-box for his faction Clean AFPFL.
In most towns and major villages where the voting took place the Stable AFPFL faction with the heavily visible support of Ne Win’s Army had not only bought the votes but they also used the army trucks to ferry the whole village to the pooling booths in nearby towns and they even fed the peasants before the votes.
They thought they had the votes of seemingly ignorant peasants firmly in their pockets.
But to their dismay the poor peasants especially the older ones, once they came down from the lofty army trucks and inside the booth, sat down in front of U Nu’s photo, kowtow (shit-kho) to it, at the same time calling U Nu aloud The Future Lord Buddha, and put their ballots into U Nu’s box.
Despite all their promises to vote for others. Despite the money they took before for that promise. Despite the fact that they had to vote under the bayoneted-rifles of the soldiers guarding the booth.
That scene was repeated hundred of thousands of times all over rural Burma and the result was U Nu’s landslide victory.
Prelude to the bridge tragedy
Frank:
How about this example: Drivers who refuse to yield to ambulances. I cannot comprehend it. What are they thinking?
In the crowd control situation, how could police officers possibly think that turning water cannons on an enclosed crowd would help the crowd speed along?
Prelude to the bridge tragedy
Looking for scapegoats (e. g. commercial interests or the government) in such tragedies is a waste of effort. It might provide jobs for lawyers and journalists, but the answer lies in the impersonal science and engineering of crowd behaviour.
Prelude to the bridge tragedy
Obviously thoughtless people at Lotus Tesco leaving their carts in the aisles is a different kettle of fish, but generally speaking there seems to be little social consciousness in the region. People pay symbolic respect in public, but especially here in Thailand they display the most overt selfishness imaginable in many public situations – traffic in streets and on sidewalks only two examples.
If individuals campaign rigorously, municipalities will respond, but unless that campaigning is continuous and meaningful, the authorities will back off and things will revert to abominable.
The hundreds of deaths on the Cambodian bridge could have been prevented, but were not. In Thailand, the streets and sidewalks could be made much safer but no one wants to inhibit greed and selfishness in themselves or others.
During the recent flooding in Korat, the authorities watched silently as market vendors occupied main roadways and in some cases completely cut off feeder lanes because their regular locations were flooded. If there was any emergency, no one would be able to get through the throngs of merchants.
Thai authorities will just not do what it takes to manage communities.
Burma commentary, with more to come
Ko Moe Aung
Beyond my forever indebtedness to the Citizenry of Myanmar I owe no one anything!
As for “the Lady”
She dose not deserve much of that has been doled out to her.
Neither does the citizenry due to the west’s policies.
No empty accolades by the west bestow her is ever going to redeem anything for the simple fact of Res Ipsa Loquitur:
“The useless careless policy made matter worst for the citizenry”.
No contest on where military belong.
You, I and Ko Hla Oo as well as most expats here know the immediate aftermath of her victory.
That critical period between her being declared/celebrtaed winners and the unspeakable onslaught of SLOR.
Critical major mistake of NOT SECURING THE GUNS/sections of Tamadaw that she can and was at her disposal.
Instead she choose her still on going present stance and let her supporters who crave revenge, just like you, run amok in the streets of Yangon.
Knowing she has squandered her support from the ethnic groups that gave her the super majority she turn to the west blindly,a Burmese anathema.
As proof the NDF which has 16 members elected that is against SPDC, was almost not to be, 2╦Ъ to her law suit by NLD under her auspices.
Hmmm
Using SPDC’s law to shut down another viable party that has ex NLD member!
As long as transgressions like these are white washed akin to the west white washing the effect of their policies your claim of Daw AUn San Suu Kyi support within Myanmar rings hallow.
Burma votes 2010 – Episode 3
chris beale,
They are hoping to have the sanctions lifted after the release of ASSK even if they’d had to do it anyway in the absence of a plausible excuse to continue her detention. She’s a bargaining chip, but they have no intention of releasing the other political prisoners.
Notice the permissive atmosphere her party enjoyed in the run up to the election in relation to its boycott campaign. The generals were happy it was out of the race, determined to manufacture the outcome they desired regardless. But how much latitude they will allow her to achieve any goal in the scheme of things personally is already seen from this HIV/AIDS shelter visit episode. People are defying eviction BTW.
I reckon the generals are biding their time happy to wait and see for the time being before they decide the West is not going to be compliant and make their next move.
Than Shwe hasn’t the same aura or authority as Ne Win. The glue that binds them together is naturally self interest in enriching themselves and the fear of retribution. It’s very likely they will break ranks once they feel assured of a good deal on the table brokered and guaranteed by the West. It’s worth pursuing a war of attrition on the part of the US and the EU. But they should also be prepared to back the army dissenters (should they decide to defect to the opposition with their men) in the event of a mutiny and civil war.
Burma votes 2010 – Episode 3
chris beale
Any news concerning Myanmar will surely be under these 2 premises for the westerner consumers.
1) Daw Aung San Suu Kyi is good SPDC is bad no matter what.
2) The sky is about to fall and cause the expected changes, whether 2╦Ъ to the Tamadaw or ethnic unrest.
As you can see none of the 2 premises reveal the true sentiment of The Citizenry.
My request to Nic was to hopefully reveal the status of common citizenry, not just the segment Daw Aung San Suu Kyi has chosen to visit.
Knowing her passive aggressive stance towards the present foe at any cause you can be certain that any of her acts that create controversy is exactly what she is hoping all the bias western media will do.
The usual speculations of the past 2 decades unfounded, but absolutely skirting the west useless careless approach that has blighted the well beings and hope of ALL CITIZENRY.
Myanmar Citizenry Plight is much more than what has been projected by almost all western media as:
Daw Aung San Suu Kyi vs SPDC
New Mandala’s has not jump on that wagon.
As for the question on AID as a pointer for the health care status of Myanmar, besides blaming the SPDC for it share what has Myanmar received from WHO or any organization besides JAPAN assistance in minimizing that scourge, let say compare to the neighbors??
In New Mandala you can find the reference by Turnell & Vicary bold assertions of “Why Health care aid for Myanmar ” is useless.
http://burmaeconomicwatch.blogspot.com/2008_07_01_archive.html
Myanmar elections: Notes from the campaign trail
Aung Si BTW is a wonderful name – the victory drum. Were you named by your grandfather? I wonder if you also have a brother called Aung Moung – the victory gong.
Myanmar elections: Notes from the campaign trail
Elections are like gold dust in Burma, and the people are always very keen whenever a chance to vote presents itself. The difference however between the one previous in 1990 and the last one was clearly seen by the majority of the people. This does not mean they will not welcome another chance in a few years’ time.
I should hope to see Aung Si pick up the banner to continue the fight when his mother decides to retire from what little politics she’s been able to engage in over the decades of military rule. I am sure the dawning of a pluralistic society in our country is not far off despite the generals. The more the merrier, let a hundred flowers bloom and all that. Good luck.