Where Burma goes from here is unclear, she says, “we are a country in limbo”.
That is one of the concluding lines ASSK said in her recent interview with the Guardian reporter Jack Davies in Rangoon on last Thursday, 18 Nov 2010. The link is here.
From the page:
Only 4 categories of Malaysian Citizens who are overseas qualify to register as postal voters under Elections (Registration of Electors) Regulation, 2002:
1. in the public service of the Government of Malaysia or of any State or in the service of any local authority or statutory authority exercising powers vested in it by Federal or State law, who is on duty outside the boundaries of Peninsular Malaysia or Sabah or Sarawak;
2. the spouse of a person in the public service of the Government of Malaysia or of any State or in the service of any local authority or statutory authority exercising powers vested in it by Federal or State law who is living with her or his husband or wife outside the boundaries of Peninsular Malaysia or Sabah or Sarawak at the date of application for registration as a Parliamentary or State elector,
3. engaged in full-time studies at any university, training college or any higher educational institution outside the boundaries of Peninsular Malaysia or Sabah or Sarawak; or
4. the spouse of a person engaged in full-time studies at any university, training college or any higher educational institution outside the
boundaries of Peninsular Malaysia or Sabah or Sarawak who is living with
her or his husband or wife at the date of application for registration as a Parliamentary or State elector.
The page also has instructions on postal votes and houses more stories on (the lack of) voters in the country.
The Associated Press has interviewed Ms. Suu Kyi and reports:
In an interview with The Associated Press, Suu Kyi called her detention illegal and said she was released simply because the decreed period of her house arrest had ended.
“I don’t think there were any other reasons,” she said …. “My detention had come to an end, and there were no immediate means of extending it.”
A measured, sad, angry, and moving plea for sanity in this deteriorating situation.
I can see only further tragedy ahead for the people of Thailand as the powers that be are convinced that fear, repression and supression are the only solution available for the nations crisis.
What does it take for a wake up call like Khun Jiranya’s to be listened to?
Ironically, I am reminded of the last five minutes of “The Bridge On The River Kwai” as the RAMC officers observes the factions and construct falling apart …”Madness, Madness…”
Thanks for this post and the excellent analysis. And I agree – Kayzone’s faded image on the banknote could indeed be seen as a spectral presence. Sometimes ‘representations’ like this can be. intentionally or not, be pretty straightforeward.
From Junya’s “Why I don’t love the King?” which Peter linked to above:
Thailand’s so-called educated classes are making the mistake of linking the legitimate struggle of the poor for democracy and justice with not loving the King and ‘anti-monarchy’. This is a serious, tragic and extremely dangerous mistake – the result of an education system that is deprived of good human reason.
I was deeply angered when the Government labelled the 88 people it murdered on the streets of Bangkok last month, as armed, anti-monarchy terrorists.
Despite the imposition of Emergency Law and massive Government censorship, more than ever before, rural and urban workers are discussing the role of their monarchy and the involvement of the King, Queen, Palace and royal regiments in Thai politics. This debate is naturally leading to a greater and more critical political consciousness.
Millions have started to doubt that their love for their King is worth the insults and scars they receive in return. Alongside the official criminalisation of those who are critical, and their victimisation by the ‘Love the King’ and ‘Protect the Monarchy’ factions, open criticism of the role of the monarchy will only continue to grow.
There must be an independent investigation into Thailand’s most recent state violence against civilians, and the investigation cannot stop at the Abhisit Government, the role of the monarchy in the crackdown, and in the four years of political chaos that preceded it, must also be investigated.
It is long past time for the Thai to engage in wide-open public debate on the role of Thai royals, their Palace institutions and the huge military force they command, and on the problems that emerge from their absolute powers and extremely expensive absolute privileges that absolutely do not promote the ‘sufficiency economy’ promoted by the King himself.
By opening real space for public criticism, the Royal Family can still rescue itself and become a real player in the work of preventing further domestic violence and bringing internal justice to Thailand – without the use of the military or paramilitary gangs, who can have no role in the civilian life of a country like Thailand in the 21st century.
The Palace must allow all Thai people to freely air their feelings on what they feel about their monarchy, and the Palace must order an end to the ‘Love the King’ and ‘Protect the Monarchy’ propaganda. From the day I was born the Royal Family had my love, but slowly they have been loosing that love. If the Palace makes me choose between loving the Royal Family and loving the Thai people I can only choose the latter. Nothing and nobody can compete with my love for the people of Thailand.
Re-reading the whole article left me with a good understanding why she no longer ‘loves the King’ as she did as a child.
But she does not hate the King.
She is critical and questioning of HM the King’s and the royal family’s involvement in ‘the troubles’… but she is not an ‘anti-monarchist’.
The ball is in the palace’s court, Junya says. The palace can ‘ become a real player in the work of preventing further domestic violence and bringing internal justice to Thailand’ according to Junya.
In any country on earth other than Thailand that is an utterly unremarkable statement. It is a very measured and constructive statement.
It is a measure of the perversity of the Thai ruling class that Junya is now afraid to return to her own country where she would very likely be treated as was and is Darunee Charnchoensilpakul : disappeared into the hell hole of Klong Prem Prison after her “secret trial” and conviction… for a few decades.
In Thailand they eat their children, the best and the brightest first.
There are certainly self-described ‘pro-monarchists’ in Thailand, intent on tearing the monarchy down it seems. And they are also the self-defined arbiters of anti-monarchism. An anti-monarchist is anyone who seems to them insufficiently pro-monarchist. Or any red shirt. Or anyone else they’d like to dispose of. To be an anti-monarchist is Thailand to day is similar to being a Communist during the ‘reign’ of Senator Joe McCarthy in the US during the 1950s. And is gravitating toward the same state as being a Jew in Germany in the 1930s. Or to being a Muslim or a Jew under the Spanish Inquisition. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. But they get it anyway.
And that is what I am quick to defend against.
To be ‘pro-monarchy’ is easy to define : reactionary.
Not being reactionary encompasses a lot more than being ‘anti-monarchy’. I deride the whole ‘classification’.
And it is certainly a fact that the ‘pro-monarchists’, the neo-nazis in my opinion, have heated their brand to cherry red-shirt red for branding.
As well as deriding classification vis-a-sis the monarchy, I deride ‘leaders’ of the red shirts. There are any number of people and groups, beginning of course with Herr Shinawatra himself, who would ride the red shirts ragged. I believe the red shirt leadership is just now beginning to emerge and that their names and numbers are not yet in Nirmal Ghosh’ rolodex.
Absolutely not. To state that means that you have completely missed the countless speeches defining Song Matratan, Amart, Prai, etc.
In the end Nick the answer lies in who gives the orders. For many of us that is so obviously Thaksin that no matter what is said in the speeches the raison d’├кtre of the UDD is to do this one thing, bring back Thaksin.
If there was more to it then one of the UDD supporters could give me the answer to the question I have been asking since the end of the protest. The question was, what were the reasons for Veera leaving the protest the day before the shooting started? Myself, I think to answer that we would need to know what Thaksin said to the leaders in the last telephone call before the protest ended. Maybe you can help Nick.
1) “remains in search of a strategy and credible alternative leaders”
They also remain in search of people who can put their ideas into a credible and systematic political model (this is not the same as a collective action frame for movement mobilization purposes). The “New Thai State” needs to be filled with more content.
2) #8 Generation is a big issue indeed in how people view the monarchy and the king.
3) #11 “nobody can compete with my love for the people of Thailand”
Moreover, this is very different from the usual pressure to “love the nation.” In fact, the sovereignty of the people does not require the people to love the king, and neither the mythical nation, nor the more mundane country. It requires to respect one another as equal citizens (btw: Chulalongkorn university could promote the idea of equal democratic citizenship by abolishing the seniority system) and develop a sense of patriotism to the key means that govern their collective affairs: the constitution.
“The UDD is still basically a single issue movement, which is the restoration of Thaksin.”
Absolutely not. To state that means that you have completely missed the countless speeches defining Song Matratan, Amart, Prai, etc.
Lacking any statistic it is very difficult quantifying the percentage of Red Shirts with anti-monarchy feelings, and also the different degrees of it within the wide spectrum that can be interpreted as “anti-monarchy”. Nevertheless it is becoming obvious that the number expressing their displeasure in the open growing steadily.
I can only suggest anybody who wants to find out more on these issues to go to protests in person, and to speak with Red Shirts themselves.
I think it is a very good description of how modern Thais (especially the ones who were able to go abroad) view their country and the royal family.
I like the conclusion she draw for herself:
“From the day I was born the Royal Family had my love, but slowly they have been loosing that love. If the Palace makes me choose between loving the Royal Family and loving the Thai people I can only choose the latter. Nothing and nobody can compete with my love for the people of Thailand.”
Might as well complete the “experts” estimates of Red Shirts leanings.
The “experts” include the unnamed two leaders who opened up to Straits Times plus Somsak J . . . any more:
‘Experts’, please feel free to fill in the blanks:
Red shirts who are:
(1) Anti-monarchy – 90%
(2) Isaarn secessionists – ___%
(3) Extremely radical and violent – ____ %
(4) Fully armed and ready to rumble – ____ %
(5) Not yet armed but ready to rumble – ______%
(6) Anti- __________? – _____%
No wonder the three provinces surrounding Bangkok are still under the state of emergency and it will not be lifted anytime soon despite Abhisit’s promises to do it before January. Wanna bet ?
These three provinces, plus Bangkok, have sizable number of working class people who are “ta sawang” and everyone knows what that means.
Extremely grateful for the quick turnaround on the requested ToC.
Hla Oo,
My rough background is this: I am an anthropologist by education, civil engineer by profession, humanitarian by inclination, and human being by default.
My reason for asking these questions is pretty straightforward. The tatmadaw is generally regarded with disdain in the West: ranging from xenophobic at best to genocidal at worst. Whatever one’s opinion on this, it doesn’t hide the fact that the organisation is made up of flesh-and-blood individuals involved in tasks that they may, or may not, be happy undertaking. How do these individuals view what they are involved in? How do they rationalise it to themselves and/or to potential readers? Are they happy, sad, obsessed, depressed? Are they having an adventure or do they miss home? In short, how do these human beings (as noted above, I am also a human being) comprehend their place in the world?
Your own reminiscing in various posts and guest contributions on this forum has been fascinating for exactly these reasons, in that they give a small window of human perspective into something and someplace that from the outside is difficult to comprehend.
Over the years regularly visiting Thailand I have bees struck by the fact that most Thais do love the King but at the same time most of the young people I have talked to don’t believe the Monarchy’s authority is based on Buddhist notions that the Royal family is there because of merit in their previous lives. Instead they speak in consitutional terms of a loved figurehead – more like the Monarchy is seen in England. With this background, and it seems a general understanding of this issue, young people now see, I believe, what is happening now as simply a power grab by those associated with the palace rather than acts being done on the Monarchy in their own good – a common view among older Thais. Seen like this it is not far to go down the road to republicanism when the Monarchy is seen to be acting against the interests of the najority of Thais – particularly with the prospect in the future that there will be less love towards the Monarchy. However, not a lot of this gets into the media because the vast majority of the people I talk to say they are ‘frightened’ to say this even to their friends. So they also understand the increasing level of repression that goes on in Thailand now.
Up to 90 per cent of the red shirts may now be anti-monarchy, they said.
Somsak you say you agree with this number. Could you define how they, the two unnamed leaders, and yourself would define the red shirts used in this statement.
Would it be those with UDD membership cards, red shirt supporters in Bangkok, red shirts in universities, red shirt supporters in the North and Northeast, etc.. How it’s defined could make a big difference to how much following they could take with them.
Somehow I still don’t think that the UDD is the monarchy’s biggest problem. The UDD is still basically a single issue movement, which is the restoration of Thaksin. Thaksin himself has not made a republican statement and probably has strong views on what is the monarchy’s biggest problem, the succession.
I’ve also been intrigued by these memoirs since I was a teenager and I’ve read most of them. Thus I could answer all your answers except the last in details.
But you have to tell me what is your reason(s) to know all this, as a non-Burmese I assume, and your background roughly. I’m really interested.
Wonderful post. I just forwarded it to several people around the office in relation to growing debates over hte new “green growth” paradigm. Good to have this type of amunition!
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Burma in Limbo, part 4
Where Burma goes from here is unclear, she says, “we are a country in limbo”.
That is one of the concluding lines ASSK said in her recent interview with the Guardian reporter Jack Davies in Rangoon on last Thursday, 18 Nov 2010. The link is here.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/18/aung-san-suu-kyi-burma-interview
Malaysia’s Democratic Action Party in Sydney
Just thought that this Facebook page: Vote For A Change Malaysia might be of help.
From the page:
Only 4 categories of Malaysian Citizens who are overseas qualify to register as postal voters under Elections (Registration of Electors) Regulation, 2002:
1. in the public service of the Government of Malaysia or of any State or in the service of any local authority or statutory authority exercising powers vested in it by Federal or State law, who is on duty outside the boundaries of Peninsular Malaysia or Sabah or Sarawak;
2. the spouse of a person in the public service of the Government of Malaysia or of any State or in the service of any local authority or statutory authority exercising powers vested in it by Federal or State law who is living with her or his husband or wife outside the boundaries of Peninsular Malaysia or Sabah or Sarawak at the date of application for registration as a Parliamentary or State elector,
3. engaged in full-time studies at any university, training college or any higher educational institution outside the boundaries of Peninsular Malaysia or Sabah or Sarawak; or
4. the spouse of a person engaged in full-time studies at any university, training college or any higher educational institution outside the
boundaries of Peninsular Malaysia or Sabah or Sarawak who is living with
her or his husband or wife at the date of application for registration as a Parliamentary or State elector.
The page also has instructions on postal votes and houses more stories on (the lack of) voters in the country.
Ramos-Horta on Burma sanctions
Followup to my first comment:
The Associated Press has interviewed Ms. Suu Kyi and reports:
In an interview with The Associated Press, Suu Kyi called her detention illegal and said she was released simply because the decreed period of her house arrest had ended.
“I don’t think there were any other reasons,” she said …. “My detention had come to an end, and there were no immediate means of extending it.”
How hardline have the redshirts become?
A measured, sad, angry, and moving plea for sanity in this deteriorating situation.
I can see only further tragedy ahead for the people of Thailand as the powers that be are convinced that fear, repression and supression are the only solution available for the nations crisis.
What does it take for a wake up call like Khun Jiranya’s to be listened to?
Ironically, I am reminded of the last five minutes of “The Bridge On The River Kwai” as the RAMC officers observes the factions and construct falling apart …”Madness, Madness…”
Inflation and iconography: the new 100,000 Kip banknote in Laos
Thanks for this post and the excellent analysis. And I agree – Kayzone’s faded image on the banknote could indeed be seen as a spectral presence. Sometimes ‘representations’ like this can be. intentionally or not, be pretty straightforeward.
How hardline have the redshirts become?
From Junya’s “Why I don’t love the King?” which Peter linked to above:
Re-reading the whole article left me with a good understanding why she no longer ‘loves the King’ as she did as a child.
But she does not hate the King.
She is critical and questioning of HM the King’s and the royal family’s involvement in ‘the troubles’… but she is not an ‘anti-monarchist’.
The ball is in the palace’s court, Junya says. The palace can ‘ become a real player in the work of preventing further domestic violence and bringing internal justice to Thailand’ according to Junya.
In any country on earth other than Thailand that is an utterly unremarkable statement. It is a very measured and constructive statement.
It is a measure of the perversity of the Thai ruling class that Junya is now afraid to return to her own country where she would very likely be treated as was and is Darunee Charnchoensilpakul : disappeared into the hell hole of Klong Prem Prison after her “secret trial” and conviction… for a few decades.
In Thailand they eat their children, the best and the brightest first.
How hardline have the redshirts become?
There are certainly self-described ‘pro-monarchists’ in Thailand, intent on tearing the monarchy down it seems. And they are also the self-defined arbiters of anti-monarchism. An anti-monarchist is anyone who seems to them insufficiently pro-monarchist. Or any red shirt. Or anyone else they’d like to dispose of. To be an anti-monarchist is Thailand to day is similar to being a Communist during the ‘reign’ of Senator Joe McCarthy in the US during the 1950s. And is gravitating toward the same state as being a Jew in Germany in the 1930s. Or to being a Muslim or a Jew under the Spanish Inquisition. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. But they get it anyway.
And that is what I am quick to defend against.
To be ‘pro-monarchy’ is easy to define : reactionary.
Not being reactionary encompasses a lot more than being ‘anti-monarchy’. I deride the whole ‘classification’.
And it is certainly a fact that the ‘pro-monarchists’, the neo-nazis in my opinion, have heated their brand to cherry red-shirt red for branding.
As well as deriding classification vis-a-sis the monarchy, I deride ‘leaders’ of the red shirts. There are any number of people and groups, beginning of course with Herr Shinawatra himself, who would ride the red shirts ragged. I believe the red shirt leadership is just now beginning to emerge and that their names and numbers are not yet in Nirmal Ghosh’ rolodex.
How hardline have the redshirts become?
Nick Nostitz – 12
Absolutely not. To state that means that you have completely missed the countless speeches defining Song Matratan, Amart, Prai, etc.
In the end Nick the answer lies in who gives the orders. For many of us that is so obviously Thaksin that no matter what is said in the speeches the raison d’├кtre of the UDD is to do this one thing, bring back Thaksin.
If there was more to it then one of the UDD supporters could give me the answer to the question I have been asking since the end of the protest. The question was, what were the reasons for Veera leaving the protest the day before the shooting started? Myself, I think to answer that we would need to know what Thaksin said to the leaders in the last telephone call before the protest ended. Maybe you can help Nick.
How hardline have the redshirts become?
1) “remains in search of a strategy and credible alternative leaders”
They also remain in search of people who can put their ideas into a credible and systematic political model (this is not the same as a collective action frame for movement mobilization purposes). The “New Thai State” needs to be filled with more content.
2) #8 Generation is a big issue indeed in how people view the monarchy and the king.
3) #11 “nobody can compete with my love for the people of Thailand”
Moreover, this is very different from the usual pressure to “love the nation.” In fact, the sovereignty of the people does not require the people to love the king, and neither the mythical nation, nor the more mundane country. It requires to respect one another as equal citizens (btw: Chulalongkorn university could promote the idea of equal democratic citizenship by abolishing the seniority system) and develop a sense of patriotism to the key means that govern their collective affairs: the constitution.
Banking on sustainability in Nam Theun 2
Hey thanks Maylee!!
How hardline have the redshirts become?
“LesAbbey” said:
“The UDD is still basically a single issue movement, which is the restoration of Thaksin.”
Absolutely not. To state that means that you have completely missed the countless speeches defining Song Matratan, Amart, Prai, etc.
Lacking any statistic it is very difficult quantifying the percentage of Red Shirts with anti-monarchy feelings, and also the different degrees of it within the wide spectrum that can be interpreted as “anti-monarchy”. Nevertheless it is becoming obvious that the number expressing their displeasure in the open growing steadily.
I can only suggest anybody who wants to find out more on these issues to go to protests in person, and to speak with Red Shirts themselves.
How hardline have the redshirts become?
I don’t know if this long story was posted here already:
http://hirvikatu10.net/timeupthailand/?p=165
http://hirvikatu10.net/timeupthailand/?p=158&lang=th
I think it is a very good description of how modern Thais (especially the ones who were able to go abroad) view their country and the royal family.
I like the conclusion she draw for herself:
“From the day I was born the Royal Family had my love, but slowly they have been loosing that love. If the Palace makes me choose between loving the Royal Family and loving the Thai people I can only choose the latter. Nothing and nobody can compete with my love for the people of Thailand.”
How hardline have the redshirts become?
Might as well complete the “experts” estimates of Red Shirts leanings.
The “experts” include the unnamed two leaders who opened up to Straits Times plus Somsak J . . . any more:
‘Experts’, please feel free to fill in the blanks:
Red shirts who are:
(1) Anti-monarchy – 90%
(2) Isaarn secessionists – ___%
(3) Extremely radical and violent – ____ %
(4) Fully armed and ready to rumble – ____ %
(5) Not yet armed but ready to rumble – ______%
(6) Anti- __________? – _____%
How hardline have the redshirts become?
No wonder the three provinces surrounding Bangkok are still under the state of emergency and it will not be lifted anytime soon despite Abhisit’s promises to do it before January. Wanna bet ?
These three provinces, plus Bangkok, have sizable number of working class people who are “ta sawang” and everyone knows what that means.
War and politics, in Burmese
Nick,
Extremely grateful for the quick turnaround on the requested ToC.
Hla Oo,
My rough background is this: I am an anthropologist by education, civil engineer by profession, humanitarian by inclination, and human being by default.
My reason for asking these questions is pretty straightforward. The tatmadaw is generally regarded with disdain in the West: ranging from xenophobic at best to genocidal at worst. Whatever one’s opinion on this, it doesn’t hide the fact that the organisation is made up of flesh-and-blood individuals involved in tasks that they may, or may not, be happy undertaking. How do these individuals view what they are involved in? How do they rationalise it to themselves and/or to potential readers? Are they happy, sad, obsessed, depressed? Are they having an adventure or do they miss home? In short, how do these human beings (as noted above, I am also a human being) comprehend their place in the world?
Your own reminiscing in various posts and guest contributions on this forum has been fascinating for exactly these reasons, in that they give a small window of human perspective into something and someplace that from the outside is difficult to comprehend.
Thanks and regards,
Paul
How hardline have the redshirts become?
Over the years regularly visiting Thailand I have bees struck by the fact that most Thais do love the King but at the same time most of the young people I have talked to don’t believe the Monarchy’s authority is based on Buddhist notions that the Royal family is there because of merit in their previous lives. Instead they speak in consitutional terms of a loved figurehead – more like the Monarchy is seen in England. With this background, and it seems a general understanding of this issue, young people now see, I believe, what is happening now as simply a power grab by those associated with the palace rather than acts being done on the Monarchy in their own good – a common view among older Thais. Seen like this it is not far to go down the road to republicanism when the Monarchy is seen to be acting against the interests of the najority of Thais – particularly with the prospect in the future that there will be less love towards the Monarchy. However, not a lot of this gets into the media because the vast majority of the people I talk to say they are ‘frightened’ to say this even to their friends. So they also understand the increasing level of repression that goes on in Thailand now.
Burma votes 2010 – Episode 3
Thanks Nich, good to hear Trevor’s thoughts. I wonder what will happen to the tourism industry post her release?
How hardline have the redshirts become?
Up to 90 per cent of the red shirts may now be anti-monarchy, they said.
Somsak you say you agree with this number. Could you define how they, the two unnamed leaders, and yourself would define the red shirts used in this statement.
Would it be those with UDD membership cards, red shirt supporters in Bangkok, red shirts in universities, red shirt supporters in the North and Northeast, etc.. How it’s defined could make a big difference to how much following they could take with them.
Somehow I still don’t think that the UDD is the monarchy’s biggest problem. The UDD is still basically a single issue movement, which is the restoration of Thaksin. Thaksin himself has not made a republican statement and probably has strong views on what is the monarchy’s biggest problem, the succession.
War and politics, in Burmese
Dear Paul,
I’ve also been intrigued by these memoirs since I was a teenager and I’ve read most of them. Thus I could answer all your answers except the last in details.
But you have to tell me what is your reason(s) to know all this, as a non-Burmese I assume, and your background roughly. I’m really interested.
Banking on sustainability in Nam Theun 2
Hey Sarinda,
Wonderful post. I just forwarded it to several people around the office in relation to growing debates over hte new “green growth” paradigm. Good to have this type of amunition!
Maylee