Firstly, I take issue with Hla Oo’s assertion that the mass arrest of Burma Communist Party on March 28, 1946 triggered the civil war. As a matter of fact, civil war was well underway at that time after Red Flag communists (CPB) led by Thakin Soe went underground in January1946.
Secondly, in placing the onus of starting the civil war on Kyaw Nyein, Hla Oo ignores the global and regional context in which unfolding events were prodding BCP and its fraternal Asian Communist parties on the path to civil war.
The global impetus of course, comes with rising East-West tensions and concomitant efforts by the Soviets to consolidate their global influence. Tensions were rising in Berlin; elected Czech government was to be taken over by communists and out of that scenario came Zhadanov’s two camps theory, a clarion call for world communists to circle the wagons.
So, as the fires burn, the cauldrons bubble.
It is to be noted that by that time, Browderism espoused by BCP’s mentor Joshi of CPI and Thein Pe Myint, the deposed Chair of BCP were roundly rejected. CPI under Ranadiv’s new leadership switched to confrontational stance, assailing Nehru’s government with the slogan yeh azadi jhootha hai’ (this is fake Independence ). Not surprisingly, little brother BCP was echoing CPI line with their own slogan: shwe yay sein lutlatye ahlo mashi (No to gold plated independence).
Clearly, rejection of Browderism meant abandonment of any peaceful approach and resorting to an armed rebellion inevitable. It was just a matter of time when they would choose to strike.
Looking at the timeline, the plot thickens at the infamous Calcutta Conference in February 1948. It was an international communist jamboree sponsored by communist controlled World Federation of Democratic Youth (WFDY) and the International Union of Students (IUS). Among the attendees were delegates from Soviet Russia, Jean Lautissier from France, Olga Chechetkina, Rajko Tomovic from Yugoslavia, Lance Sharkey of Australia, Chin Peng of Malaya, Maruto Darusman and Suripno of Indonesia and BCP delegates led by Than Tun and Yebaw Aung Gyi. The Zhadanov line or marching orders to war were purportedly relayed to the delegates at the meeting. Two days later, the same delegates attended the second congress of the Indian Communist Party. In his speech to the audience, Than Tun rattling his saber, bragged:
We have more than a lakh of class conscious militants who have had military
training, many of whom have had experience of partisan warfare and who can be swung into action whenever the occasion demands it. We also have lakhs of workers, peasants and common people behind us.
On their way back from Calcutta, the communist cabal stopped over in Burma and attended a mass meeting of peasants held in the Communist stronghold of Pyinmana. The attendance was impressive. The then Burmese government reported 75000 peasants attended, Thakin Tin Mya recollected as 100000, and the BCP newsletter reported as 200000. According to Tin Mya, the foreign comrades were mightily impressed with Chin Peng remarking that the time for Revolution was ripe in Burma and expressed his concern it might get over ripe with too long a tarry.
At the Resistance Day rally on March 27th, BCP’s belligerence escalated when Than Tun in his speech offered to accommodate U Nu‘s wish to meditate in peace by dispatching him to the cemetery and to fill up Bagaya with socialist bones.
In response to this existential challenge and an impending outbreak of violence, the Burmese government ordered the arrest of communists on March 28th.
On June 16, 1948 Chin Peng and his MCP launched their revolution with the killing of rubber plantation estate managers in Perak.
On September 28, The Indonesian communists staged a violent uprising in Maduin proclaiming the Indonesian Soviet Republic.
Was the arrest order on the part of the Burmese government prudent move or not? That, history will have to judge.
Could they have prevented the outbreak of violence by holding back? I think not.
I conclude by inviting Ko Hla Oo to indulge in the ifs of history and offer his notion of what might have happened if the arrest orders were stayed on that fateful day of March 28, 1948.
In an interview with Sean Boonracong last spring he said there were 30,000 people in Isan making a half a million baht a month, for what it’s worth.
Just came back from the north and what Lesabbey says about the sex industry certainly resonates with me after being in touch with tribal communities recently. The more in touch I am with the vast majority of Thai people actually, the more I can very easily understand that 1500 baht an hour makes a lot of sense, for example, when you are trying to sell handwoven shirts and bags in a flooded market for 100 baht (and who knows the price for Thais). I was in a northern town, a small town in a remote part of Thailand and I thought, wow, this place is so serene, so not Bangkok. But when the lights went down it lit up like a Christmas tree and instantly there were girls in threes sitting at outdoor tables selling that oldest of commodities.
60k baht does seem a bit low for a middle income for a household. That’s 5k baht/month which, according to my own informal interviews, seems normal for one income, but not a household. Government teachers and police start at around 6k. The interesting thing is that I have asked how much these construction workers working on these high rises and this BTS line make and they are making between 6-15k/month here in Bangkok. Though most earning closer to 6k.
Getting at another post about possible topics for this site I would say that I’d be interested in more statistics.
And yes, Lesabbey, life as a peasant is indeed mean. I was taken up a mountain as one of the first “tourists” and this leader of his tribe had his people come out like a circus trick to dance while a woman walked around writing down names to get a piece of the 300baht that I (learned later) paid. He walked into a home and simply spotlighted the people like they were an exhibit. The desperation was palpable.
Good God. Whatever political process is underway I just hope that more of the wealth trickles down to so many of these people…
#38 “MattB: Seems like you have confused ‘Reds’ with PAD, Krathing Daeng, Village Scouts, Cyber Scouts, or the People’s Volunteer Network for the Protection of the Monarchy.”
One might well ask if there is any real difference. In all six of these cases, the hidden agenda of those in control seems rather more terroristic and power-grabbing than democratic. And the rather more well-intended ones are always just the grunts. If the likes of Jatuporn are really so reform-minded, why is it that they aren’t even capable of running their own organization in a democratic fashion. Instead they have to keep consulting yet another uniformed depot who is incapable of even opining a few mixed feelings about the highest institution.
There’;s nothing even vaguely worth supporting in the redshirt movement, since they continally demonstrate that they are yet another goon squad of the constantly-squabbling FU’ed local elite.
Added to what Nganadeeleg already said, I’ve been in both the PAD and UDD rally, and I say there’s a vaste different between attitude of the people that went there. One of the most notable different that the PAD went to the rally to listen to their leaders’ speech, but the UDD went there to discuss among themselves, exchange information, and discuss what is possible or simply rumors.
The main topic that I hear at the PAD rally comprised of mostly 2 things, how corrupted Thaksin is and how mich they love monarchy. I found that attitude disturbingly similar to the Nawapol and the Red Gaur movement in the 1976. Of cause some UDD cherish their leaders but not all agree with them, I’ve came across groups of UDD who actually fight over who was right about some minor detail in the history of Thailand, something I never see in the PAD. I even get to talk with the some ex-PAD who rightfully admitted that they had join the PAD rally before. Moreover, you can see many autonomous group that don’t actually listen to the 3 wise man like Surachai Sae Darn of Red Siam.
I can bet that many average red shirt know more about Thailand’s history and politic than average PAD who I doubt still confused about whether 14 October or 6 October came first.
7000 baht debt to money lenders (non-formal) ie. loan sharks require 1% per day interest. So they have to come up with 70 baht a day at this debt level. If we use Andrews graph from the next article and say this family is middle income peasant making about 100000 baht a year, he needs 25500 baht per year just to maintain the interest payment on the shysters loan without paying off the principal.
Then consider that his other loan is with a more formal sector he needs about 8,500 baht a year to finance that again interest only.
So our middle income farmer is paying 34% of income on debt maintainence, factor in VAT and hidden taxes like cigarette and liquor taxes, illegal school fees, occasional bribes, and the life of the middle income peasant it definitely not an idealic bliss of sustainabilty.
This is why Thaksin and the TRT became so popular, it meant that if you got bit by a stay dog, you didn’t have to morgage the tractor to get rabies shots. Or go door to door in the village to solicit funds to pay for hernia operation.
(The 1% rate per day is based on what I see locally but I live in a city so not sure if it the same in rural areas.)
Nothing personal, Hla Oo. Credit where credit is due, and facts are facts whilst spin and bias, hidden agendas and smear tactics are to be exposed.
I know very well you are basically irritated by the simple fact that I was once a Tatmadaw soldier.
You judged me wrong there. I have nothing against the honest patriotic officers and men, sons of ordinary folk, peasants and workers of Burma, salt of the earth. Sadly they are being used as killers and cannon fodder and brutalised in the process. About time they realised where their real duty and loyalties lie.
Your past is easy to forgive, I wonder if your present is.
Sometimes when Andrew produces his graphs it’s possible to think that all the changes for the better happened under the Thaksin governments
Apologies Andrew, did that come out sounding like a personal attack? It wasn’t the intention.
I was thinking of the graphs showing farming income against GDP and so on that seemed to show such steep rises after Thaksin became leader.
I should of course added to the turning points the rise in worldwide commodity prices, which Australia also benefited from, caused by China’s growth and possibly the commodity trading funds that seem to push up prices.
Any reaction to the rest of my comment, or was just the graphs bit?
“Srithanonchai: what is the point you are making? The thing is at ANU, so it would look ANU, wouldn’t it? Is there deeper meaning to your comment?”
The “deeper meaning” is that–don’t ask me why or how–I had overlooked the location of the seminar. I only realized this when I had returned home from the Internet cafe. Thus I offer my sincere apologies to the organizers for my mistake.
Les: “Sometimes when Andrew produces his graphs it’s possible to think that all the changes for the better happened under the Thaksin governments.”
Really??? Go back and look at some of my discussion in the Thailand in Crisis Videos. My whole argument is that what happened under Thaksin was a continuation of long term trends. Those who think, for example, that it was Thaksin who flooded the country side with credit, need to look at the long term data. AW
After 3 years of your persistent anti-Hla Oo broadsides and rants on whatever I wrote here at this New Mandala your comment above is the icing on the cake for me.
I sincerely hope I’m not changing your mind about me permanently as I’ll sadly miss old Moe Aung.
I know very well you are basically irritated by the simple fact that I was once a Tatmadaw soldier. But believe me, I am just honestly letting out the truth about our Burma as I have known it for a very very long time now.
I wonder how much of the top sectors on the graph of the results, directly or indirectly, of the proceeds of sex tourism.
When I first came to Thailand, a house in one of the many Northeast villages that was slightly newer or larger was generally said to be paid for by Thai men working overseas. Didn’t we refer to the women lording (ladying) over their neighbours as Saudi wives? Please correct me on this if I’m remembering it wrong. Of course this was in the days before the Provincial Electricity Authority had managed to wire in many of the villages.
Today when you visit the same villages you see many cement houses, some mansions as good as any in the gated moo bahns of the Bangkok suburbs. If you ask who owns them the two most common answers are the girl married to a farang who has moved to the village, or the girl who lives with her foreign husband overseas but has sent money back to build her parents a home or as her own retirement home. Again I’m talking about the Northeast as I don’t get out into the country in the North or South to compare them.
Now for myself, I say good luck to the girls, but for those who wear rose-coloured glasses when looking at peasant life it’s worth remembering the meanness that can be so much part of that life. It’s the living on the edge of crop failure, of climatic conditions going against you, of debts being called in, and most of all the fear of losing your land that can justify selling their daughters or sending them to work in the sex industry. Compared to this, living under wage slavery as an industrial worker is very much a step up.
Sometimes when Andrew produces his graphs it’s possible to think that all the changes for the better happened under the Thaksin governments, but this probably doesn’t hold up to close scrutiny. Myself, I think the arrival of electricity to those villages was a major turning point, as was the migration of sons and daughters to jobs in the cities or industrial areas. The new pickups and motorbikes in the villages do point to increased debt but if lucky can mean a farmer can market his crops for a better price or bring in supplies at a lower cost.
Yes, that sounds about right. We are sorry when these features don’t work precisely (or in this case too precisely). Some major changes are planned around these parts and I expect that this is something we may be in a position to remedy. Thanks for letting us know of this glitch!
MattB: Seems like you have confused ‘Reds’ with PAD, Krathing Daeng, Village Scouts, Cyber Scouts, or the People’s Volunteer Network for the Protection of the Monarchy.
– The buttons are all gray and I can’t click any of them.
The plugin is setup so that only one IP can click per button. If you’ve made the comment that you’re trying to vote on, or already voted on it, you won’t be able to vote on it again.
So…
1. TOT dynamically assigns an IP address to A
2. A comes to NM, reads posting, reads comments, votes on X
3. TOT dynamically reassigns the IP address to B
4. B comes to NM, reads posting, reads comments, notes the voting apparatus of X is inoperative.
Did you credit the artist for the front cover? I’m sure he’ll not be happy to see his works appearing on the front of a book as controversial as this one!
Communists refused to let the Socialists join the CPB wholesale; instead they wanted to individually consider new membership applications case-by-case.
Considering the nature of a communist party, never a broad church or a hybrid organisation, it would be surprising if they did go forthat kind of merger.
Maybe he (Aung San) didn’t hate the British at all..
It’s easy to confuse hatred of colonialism with racial animosity.
Whatever Kyaw Nyein’s excuses were for the Communist rebellion the exact trigger for the civil war in Burma was his mass arrest of the Communists and that date of 28 March 1948 was the exact beginning of possibly the longest civil war in the modern world.
The former lawyer Kyaw Nyein outmanoeuvred the former schoolteacher Than Tun. The former postal clerk Ne Win showed similar skills and cunning in staying ahead of the game, not least by dint of his effective control and indoctrination of the army. In 1988 the CPB named its UG outfit 4828 to commemorate the day.
Tarrin 11
You sure remember “Thailand on the Verge” video? “Whatever I do is wrong; whatever you do is right.” “Stop Double Standard” Perhaps we can go one notch higher. “Democracy you can eat” “I will have all your debts written off and give you a sizable sum of new money. Your schooling children will receive a free notebook ea..” And, the latest promise: “I will make the minimum wage 300 bht/day.”
Five days ago, my friends and I were offered this cash deal by one of our red-shirted neighbours to attend meeting downtown. He was trying to recruit ten members and we were told that we could do our own recruiting too. Multi-levelled marketing? Lots of cash for the poor from that 15 billion bht withdrawn in carloads earlier in the year.
Can you not consider him a genius? An offer many in the Issarn can’t refuse? What’s Korn’s refinancing deal compared to all the above-mentioned? ALL YOUR BURDEN WILL BE OVER. Just vote for PTP! For those trained Red Warriors of Chao Tuk I will pay you to continue RA’s ‘strategy of TENSION’ Remember to vote for PTP!
Back to AW’s and Chris Baker’s points. If we take 60,000 baht a year as a family income, then this comes out at roughly 40 baht per day per person. All of the comment on subjective/objective are noted, but could we realistically suggest that this is a “living wage/income”, let alone a division between poor and middle? That one-fifth are surviving on less than this is startling.
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Burma in Limbo, part 4
Firstly, I take issue with Hla Oo’s assertion that the mass arrest of Burma Communist Party on March 28, 1946 triggered the civil war. As a matter of fact, civil war was well underway at that time after Red Flag communists (CPB) led by Thakin Soe went underground in January1946.
Secondly, in placing the onus of starting the civil war on Kyaw Nyein, Hla Oo ignores the global and regional context in which unfolding events were prodding BCP and its fraternal Asian Communist parties on the path to civil war.
The global impetus of course, comes with rising East-West tensions and concomitant efforts by the Soviets to consolidate their global influence. Tensions were rising in Berlin; elected Czech government was to be taken over by communists and out of that scenario came Zhadanov’s two camps theory, a clarion call for world communists to circle the wagons.
So, as the fires burn, the cauldrons bubble.
It is to be noted that by that time, Browderism espoused by BCP’s mentor Joshi of CPI and Thein Pe Myint, the deposed Chair of BCP were roundly rejected. CPI under Ranadiv’s new leadership switched to confrontational stance, assailing Nehru’s government with the slogan yeh azadi jhootha hai’ (this is fake Independence ). Not surprisingly, little brother BCP was echoing CPI line with their own slogan: shwe yay sein lutlatye ahlo mashi (No to gold plated independence).
Clearly, rejection of Browderism meant abandonment of any peaceful approach and resorting to an armed rebellion inevitable. It was just a matter of time when they would choose to strike.
Looking at the timeline, the plot thickens at the infamous Calcutta Conference in February 1948. It was an international communist jamboree sponsored by communist controlled World Federation of Democratic Youth (WFDY) and the International Union of Students (IUS). Among the attendees were delegates from Soviet Russia, Jean Lautissier from France, Olga Chechetkina, Rajko Tomovic from Yugoslavia, Lance Sharkey of Australia, Chin Peng of Malaya, Maruto Darusman and Suripno of Indonesia and BCP delegates led by Than Tun and Yebaw Aung Gyi. The Zhadanov line or marching orders to war were purportedly relayed to the delegates at the meeting. Two days later, the same delegates attended the second congress of the Indian Communist Party. In his speech to the audience, Than Tun rattling his saber, bragged:
We have more than a lakh of class conscious militants who have had military
training, many of whom have had experience of partisan warfare and who can be swung into action whenever the occasion demands it. We also have lakhs of workers, peasants and common people behind us.
On their way back from Calcutta, the communist cabal stopped over in Burma and attended a mass meeting of peasants held in the Communist stronghold of Pyinmana. The attendance was impressive. The then Burmese government reported 75000 peasants attended, Thakin Tin Mya recollected as 100000, and the BCP newsletter reported as 200000. According to Tin Mya, the foreign comrades were mightily impressed with Chin Peng remarking that the time for Revolution was ripe in Burma and expressed his concern it might get over ripe with too long a tarry.
At the Resistance Day rally on March 27th, BCP’s belligerence escalated when Than Tun in his speech offered to accommodate U Nu‘s wish to meditate in peace by dispatching him to the cemetery and to fill up Bagaya with socialist bones.
In response to this existential challenge and an impending outbreak of violence, the Burmese government ordered the arrest of communists on March 28th.
On June 16, 1948 Chin Peng and his MCP launched their revolution with the killing of rubber plantation estate managers in Perak.
On September 28, The Indonesian communists staged a violent uprising in Maduin proclaiming the Indonesian Soviet Republic.
Was the arrest order on the part of the Burmese government prudent move or not? That, history will have to judge.
Could they have prevented the outbreak of violence by holding back? I think not.
I conclude by inviting Ko Hla Oo to indulge in the ifs of history and offer his notion of what might have happened if the arrest orders were stayed on that fateful day of March 28, 1948.
On the Brink: Human Rights in Thailand
On The Edge indeed –
Splits in Thailand’s military re-emerge, as the nation’s Pravit reports :
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/10/17/politics/Army-man-calls-it-as-he-sees-it-30140246.html
The dominance of the middle-income peasants
In an interview with Sean Boonracong last spring he said there were 30,000 people in Isan making a half a million baht a month, for what it’s worth.
Just came back from the north and what Lesabbey says about the sex industry certainly resonates with me after being in touch with tribal communities recently. The more in touch I am with the vast majority of Thai people actually, the more I can very easily understand that 1500 baht an hour makes a lot of sense, for example, when you are trying to sell handwoven shirts and bags in a flooded market for 100 baht (and who knows the price for Thais). I was in a northern town, a small town in a remote part of Thailand and I thought, wow, this place is so serene, so not Bangkok. But when the lights went down it lit up like a Christmas tree and instantly there were girls in threes sitting at outdoor tables selling that oldest of commodities.
60k baht does seem a bit low for a middle income for a household. That’s 5k baht/month which, according to my own informal interviews, seems normal for one income, but not a household. Government teachers and police start at around 6k. The interesting thing is that I have asked how much these construction workers working on these high rises and this BTS line make and they are making between 6-15k/month here in Bangkok. Though most earning closer to 6k.
Getting at another post about possible topics for this site I would say that I’d be interested in more statistics.
And yes, Lesabbey, life as a peasant is indeed mean. I was taken up a mountain as one of the first “tourists” and this leader of his tribe had his people come out like a circus trick to dance while a woman walked around writing down names to get a piece of the 300baht that I (learned later) paid. He walked into a home and simply spotlighted the people like they were an exhibit. The desperation was palpable.
Good God. Whatever political process is underway I just hope that more of the wealth trickles down to so many of these people…
Red art: Democracy Monument April 12 2010
#38 “MattB: Seems like you have confused ‘Reds’ with PAD, Krathing Daeng, Village Scouts, Cyber Scouts, or the People’s Volunteer Network for the Protection of the Monarchy.”
One might well ask if there is any real difference. In all six of these cases, the hidden agenda of those in control seems rather more terroristic and power-grabbing than democratic. And the rather more well-intended ones are always just the grunts. If the likes of Jatuporn are really so reform-minded, why is it that they aren’t even capable of running their own organization in a democratic fashion. Instead they have to keep consulting yet another uniformed depot who is incapable of even opining a few mixed feelings about the highest institution.
There’;s nothing even vaguely worth supporting in the redshirt movement, since they continally demonstrate that they are yet another goon squad of the constantly-squabbling FU’ed local elite.
Red art: Democracy Monument April 12 2010
MattB – 37
Added to what Nganadeeleg already said, I’ve been in both the PAD and UDD rally, and I say there’s a vaste different between attitude of the people that went there. One of the most notable different that the PAD went to the rally to listen to their leaders’ speech, but the UDD went there to discuss among themselves, exchange information, and discuss what is possible or simply rumors.
The main topic that I hear at the PAD rally comprised of mostly 2 things, how corrupted Thaksin is and how mich they love monarchy. I found that attitude disturbingly similar to the Nawapol and the Red Gaur movement in the 1976. Of cause some UDD cherish their leaders but not all agree with them, I’ve came across groups of UDD who actually fight over who was right about some minor detail in the history of Thailand, something I never see in the PAD. I even get to talk with the some ex-PAD who rightfully admitted that they had join the PAD rally before. Moreover, you can see many autonomous group that don’t actually listen to the 3 wise man like Surachai Sae Darn of Red Siam.
I can bet that many average red shirt know more about Thailand’s history and politic than average PAD who I doubt still confused about whether 14 October or 6 October came first.
How much of a burden is rural debt in Thailand?
Wow, “informal lenders” = loan sharks seems a big leap.
Couldn’t informal debt be to a neighbor or a cousin, and very possibly interest free?
How much of a burden is rural debt in Thailand?
7000 baht debt to money lenders (non-formal) ie. loan sharks require 1% per day interest. So they have to come up with 70 baht a day at this debt level. If we use Andrews graph from the next article and say this family is middle income peasant making about 100000 baht a year, he needs 25500 baht per year just to maintain the interest payment on the shysters loan without paying off the principal.
Then consider that his other loan is with a more formal sector he needs about 8,500 baht a year to finance that again interest only.
So our middle income farmer is paying 34% of income on debt maintainence, factor in VAT and hidden taxes like cigarette and liquor taxes, illegal school fees, occasional bribes, and the life of the middle income peasant it definitely not an idealic bliss of sustainabilty.
This is why Thaksin and the TRT became so popular, it meant that if you got bit by a stay dog, you didn’t have to morgage the tractor to get rabies shots. Or go door to door in the village to solicit funds to pay for hernia operation.
(The 1% rate per day is based on what I see locally but I live in a city so not sure if it the same in rural areas.)
Burma in Limbo, part 4
Nothing personal, Hla Oo. Credit where credit is due, and facts are facts whilst spin and bias, hidden agendas and smear tactics are to be exposed.
I know very well you are basically irritated by the simple fact that I was once a Tatmadaw soldier.
You judged me wrong there. I have nothing against the honest patriotic officers and men, sons of ordinary folk, peasants and workers of Burma, salt of the earth. Sadly they are being used as killers and cannon fodder and brutalised in the process. About time they realised where their real duty and loyalties lie.
Your past is easy to forgive, I wonder if your present is.
The dominance of the middle-income peasants
Sometimes when Andrew produces his graphs it’s possible to think that all the changes for the better happened under the Thaksin governments
Apologies Andrew, did that come out sounding like a personal attack? It wasn’t the intention.
I was thinking of the graphs showing farming income against GDP and so on that seemed to show such steep rises after Thaksin became leader.
I should of course added to the turning points the rise in worldwide commodity prices, which Australia also benefited from, caused by China’s growth and possibly the commodity trading funds that seem to push up prices.
Any reaction to the rest of my comment, or was just the graphs bit?
On the Brink: Human Rights in Thailand
Ralph Kamden #4
“Srithanonchai: what is the point you are making? The thing is at ANU, so it would look ANU, wouldn’t it? Is there deeper meaning to your comment?”
The “deeper meaning” is that–don’t ask me why or how–I had overlooked the location of the seminar. I only realized this when I had returned home from the Internet cafe. Thus I offer my sincere apologies to the organizers for my mistake.
The dominance of the middle-income peasants
Les: “Sometimes when Andrew produces his graphs it’s possible to think that all the changes for the better happened under the Thaksin governments.”
Really??? Go back and look at some of my discussion in the Thailand in Crisis Videos. My whole argument is that what happened under Thaksin was a continuation of long term trends. Those who think, for example, that it was Thaksin who flooded the country side with credit, need to look at the long term data. AW
Burma in Limbo, part 4
Thanks Moe Aung,
After 3 years of your persistent anti-Hla Oo broadsides and rants on whatever I wrote here at this New Mandala your comment above is the icing on the cake for me.
I sincerely hope I’m not changing your mind about me permanently as I’ll sadly miss old Moe Aung.
I know very well you are basically irritated by the simple fact that I was once a Tatmadaw soldier. But believe me, I am just honestly letting out the truth about our Burma as I have known it for a very very long time now.
The dominance of the middle-income peasants
I wonder how much of the top sectors on the graph of the results, directly or indirectly, of the proceeds of sex tourism.
When I first came to Thailand, a house in one of the many Northeast villages that was slightly newer or larger was generally said to be paid for by Thai men working overseas. Didn’t we refer to the women lording (ladying) over their neighbours as Saudi wives? Please correct me on this if I’m remembering it wrong. Of course this was in the days before the Provincial Electricity Authority had managed to wire in many of the villages.
Today when you visit the same villages you see many cement houses, some mansions as good as any in the gated moo bahns of the Bangkok suburbs. If you ask who owns them the two most common answers are the girl married to a farang who has moved to the village, or the girl who lives with her foreign husband overseas but has sent money back to build her parents a home or as her own retirement home. Again I’m talking about the Northeast as I don’t get out into the country in the North or South to compare them.
Now for myself, I say good luck to the girls, but for those who wear rose-coloured glasses when looking at peasant life it’s worth remembering the meanness that can be so much part of that life. It’s the living on the edge of crop failure, of climatic conditions going against you, of debts being called in, and most of all the fear of losing your land that can justify selling their daughters or sending them to work in the sex industry. Compared to this, living under wage slavery as an industrial worker is very much a step up.
Sometimes when Andrew produces his graphs it’s possible to think that all the changes for the better happened under the Thaksin governments, but this probably doesn’t hold up to close scrutiny. Myself, I think the arrival of electricity to those villages was a major turning point, as was the migration of sons and daughters to jobs in the cities or industrial areas. The new pickups and motorbikes in the villages do point to increased debt but if lucky can mean a farmer can market his crops for a better price or bring in supplies at a lower cost.
On the Brink: Human Rights in Thailand
Thanks JFL,
Yes, that sounds about right. We are sorry when these features don’t work precisely (or in this case too precisely). Some major changes are planned around these parts and I expect that this is something we may be in a position to remedy. Thanks for letting us know of this glitch!
Best wishes to all,
Nich
Red art: Democracy Monument April 12 2010
MattB: Seems like you have confused ‘Reds’ with PAD, Krathing Daeng, Village Scouts, Cyber Scouts, or the People’s Volunteer Network for the Protection of the Monarchy.
On the Brink: Human Rights in Thailand
Comment Karma FAQ Help
So…
1. TOT dynamically assigns an IP address to A
2. A comes to NM, reads posting, reads comments, votes on X
3. TOT dynamically reassigns the IP address to B
4. B comes to NM, reads posting, reads comments, notes the voting apparatus of X is inoperative.
Saying the unsayable about Thailand’s monarchy
Did you credit the artist for the front cover? I’m sure he’ll not be happy to see his works appearing on the front of a book as controversial as this one!
Burma in Limbo, part 4
Hla Oo got this episode broadly right.
Communists refused to let the Socialists join the CPB wholesale; instead they wanted to individually consider new membership applications case-by-case.
Considering the nature of a communist party, never a broad church or a hybrid organisation, it would be surprising if they did go forthat kind of merger.
Maybe he (Aung San) didn’t hate the British at all..
It’s easy to confuse hatred of colonialism with racial animosity.
Whatever Kyaw Nyein’s excuses were for the Communist rebellion the exact trigger for the civil war in Burma was his mass arrest of the Communists and that date of 28 March 1948 was the exact beginning of possibly the longest civil war in the modern world.
The former lawyer Kyaw Nyein outmanoeuvred the former schoolteacher Than Tun. The former postal clerk Ne Win showed similar skills and cunning in staying ahead of the game, not least by dint of his effective control and indoctrination of the army. In 1988 the CPB named its UG outfit 4828 to commemorate the day.
How much of a burden is rural debt in Thailand?
Tarrin 11
You sure remember “Thailand on the Verge” video? “Whatever I do is wrong; whatever you do is right.” “Stop Double Standard” Perhaps we can go one notch higher. “Democracy you can eat” “I will have all your debts written off and give you a sizable sum of new money. Your schooling children will receive a free notebook ea..” And, the latest promise: “I will make the minimum wage 300 bht/day.”
Five days ago, my friends and I were offered this cash deal by one of our red-shirted neighbours to attend meeting downtown. He was trying to recruit ten members and we were told that we could do our own recruiting too. Multi-levelled marketing? Lots of cash for the poor from that 15 billion bht withdrawn in carloads earlier in the year.
Can you not consider him a genius? An offer many in the Issarn can’t refuse? What’s Korn’s refinancing deal compared to all the above-mentioned? ALL YOUR BURDEN WILL BE OVER. Just vote for PTP! For those trained Red Warriors of Chao Tuk I will pay you to continue RA’s ‘strategy of TENSION’ Remember to vote for PTP!
The dominance of the middle-income peasants
Back to AW’s and Chris Baker’s points. If we take 60,000 baht a year as a family income, then this comes out at roughly 40 baht per day per person. All of the comment on subjective/objective are noted, but could we realistically suggest that this is a “living wage/income”, let alone a division between poor and middle? That one-fifth are surviving on less than this is startling.