The King is a symbol, all states are very protective of their symbols.
Try “discussing” Ataturk in Turkey, try attacking “Christian values” in church belt America, try building a mosque in Switzerland – you would have a serious backlash coming to you one way or another.
Try that when the state power itself is under threat and you’ll have situation close to Thailand’s.
We can add his latest comments to the foreign press to the same rubbish bin in which he already placed his previous comments to the foreign press, such as: there can be no reconciliation unless the PAD are brought to justice for the airport seizure; we will have a thorough investigation of the treatment of the Rohingya refugees; charges were already dropped against the Thai man who refused to stand for the royal anthem; we will rationalize the law on lese majeste; etc. etc.
StanG: I wonder if those ordinary Thai’s (the ones whose feelings you care so much about 🙂 would be quite so offended if they were able to see all the facts?
Under the current system, they are only fed a diet of glorifying comments, as anything negative gets blocked out by your LM laws. After being fed such a diet, it’s little wonder that their feelings might get hurt on the odd occasion anything less than fawning (no matter how truthful) might accidently slip through the LM net.
StanG: What about those ordinary Thai’s who are offended by the way illegal military coups are endorsed, and how the perpetrators are exonerated, sometimes even rewarded?
Kenneth Adelman is one of the 45 members of the ICG board, a group of highly experienced and capable people from many backgrounds. Its co-chairs are Lord Christopher Patten and Thomas R. Pickering. Adelman is identified on ICG’s website as “Former U.S. Ambassador and Director of the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency.”
Adelman has been critical of the Thai government, including its compulsory licensing decisions. He is counsel to Edelman Public Relations, a firm that Thaksin briefly hired in 2007. Obviously, therefore, Adelman is on Thaksin’s payroll, as are ICG and the other 44 board members and all the researchers and professionals who wrote the July 5 report. The report therefore has no credibility or worthwhile suggestions; it is just another ploy to bring back Thaksin.
Dan, Dems tried that after 2009 riots when they quickly returned reds their public space – their media, TV, magazines, freedom of assembly etc.
All it did was encourage red leaders to further radicalize their flock and to hold even bigger round of protests that inevitably ended in even bigger violence.
Should the government try that “solution” again? Only if it is unbelievably stupid.
Reds are taking up arms and resorting to violent methods not because they don’t have legitimate mechanisms to participate in politics, it’s because they want to impose their will on the rest of the country by any means necessary and “defeat” is not an option.
If Thaksin wasn’t corrupt he’d probably still be Prime Minister today. But the underlying problem wasn’t really Thaksin per se, it was Thailand’s pitifully weak governance. The system isn’t strong enough to contain or remove a corrupt leader through due process.
Hence the coup, a reaction to Thaksin’s abuse of power, but itself an abuse of power and another symptom of exactly the same problem.
There’s only way to get off the tyrant => coup => tyrant cycle: Fix the governance. Things won’t get better until politicians expect to be caught and punished for corruption and military commanders expect to be caught and shot for mutiny.
Sam Deedes #27 – “I would single out the Patravadi theatre for creating artistic bridges of great quality between Thailand and the outside world.” Please expand – I’d be interested to know your views on this.
I’ve seen their Sunday night student shows & the magnificent production, ‘Eclipse’, a wonderfully eclectic mix of dance & mime styles from Bali, Thailand and neighbours, Japan, U.S., etc., including Japanese traditional drumming, and consider it one of the best pieces of theatre I’ve seen in my life – on the same level as ‘The Ramayana’ at Prambanam Temple in Central Java, & Peter Brooke’s work on ‘Conference of the Birds’ and ‘Mahabharata’. This is the sort of stuff the Misery of Culture should be supporting!
plan B’ s comments about Myanmar ( Burma) are on the ball.
Last week during a talk about teaching refugees in Chiang Mai, we were told about how access was denied to one of the many building sites here where all the workers are from Shan State.
Workers with their families (basicaly as hostages), no knowledge of Thai language or society beyond their work place and no money are effectively forced laborers.
For sure the values of the SPDC dictatorship are becoming entrenched in Thailand.
[…] Thailand and A New Cold War? Scott Hipsher has an interesting article over at NM: Thailand: A Battle Ground for the New Cold War? For those who view Thailand and Thai politics as a "joke", this article will be of no […]
“I do not, and cannot see, how any discussion on the Monarchy, can in any way, constitute a threat to national security.”
If you have a conception of the state (in the manner of Louis XIV) which identifies the King with the state, then I guess it’s possible. It’s insane but it’s possible.
If these words of PM Abhisit are the beginning of an honest discussion or dialogue, and not the be-all and end-all, then I am happy. If they are not, then I am not.
Your logic only seems to make sense if you accept the pretty dubious premise that disagreeing with the Democrats is illegitimate. It’s in fact perfectly reasonable to disagree utterly with the reds and yet say that their conflict with the government should be solved in a public democratic space. All that is required for this is a belief that public disagreements with governments are legitimate. If you wanted to make an analogy with crime, it might be better to say that in the name of reducing the crime rate, the government should attempt to solve issues of poverty because all poverty does is turn people into criminals. Likewise, if the Democrats want to avoid a violent turn in politics, they should open, not close, the democratic space.
the reason that it could appear that (some) yellow and red people may seem to be similar is because they all get fed, by and large, from the same extremely restricted news sources
the Thai redshirts dont see any news of leftist movements in the rest of the world.
They were fortunate for a brief while to get some news of their own movement. I expect their media could have a bit more international focus bur suspect that they were struggling just to service its own needs
Now the redshirts only see government propaganda.
I wonder if and how leftists in other countries get a broader perspective?
Jana said: She uses a pseudonym for her activities in Burma to protect herself from the world’s most oppressive and evil regime. The fact that she must now do the same here, to protect herself from ordinary Thai people, saddens her deeply.
I don’t think the Burmese junta is the most oppressive and evil regime in the world. It’s her neighbour instead. Burmese junta never commit any large-scale massacre in the broad daylight, in front of the global medias, inside a temple( which supposed to be a ‘NO KILLING ZONE’) And please don’t put all the blame to those poor people. They’re programmed (and coerced) to think and do so by the world’s most oppressive and evil regime(in your own term). Blame the right one(s).
Congratulation GreedThai #1, you got the highest rate ! ( the New Mandala’s record?).
Firefox has an addon called download helper that can download from YouTube or direct from New Mandala (although its better/faster to load from YouTube)
Once installed there is an icon that lights up and rotates whenever some compatible media is recognised, click and select the one you want and save
Without in any way detracting from your dislike of the various past & present eels of Thai politics, I have this much to say about Suphanburi. It would be better managed if it were divided more equally with other jungwats. People like Barnharn did nothing to prevent this crisis developing. So why hero-worship the man who helped, big-time, to get us into this mess.
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Abhisit’s distinction
The King is a symbol, all states are very protective of their symbols.
Try “discussing” Ataturk in Turkey, try attacking “Christian values” in church belt America, try building a mosque in Switzerland – you would have a serious backlash coming to you one way or another.
Try that when the state power itself is under threat and you’ll have situation close to Thailand’s.
Abhisit’s distinction
We can add his latest comments to the foreign press to the same rubbish bin in which he already placed his previous comments to the foreign press, such as: there can be no reconciliation unless the PAD are brought to justice for the airport seizure; we will have a thorough investigation of the treatment of the Rohingya refugees; charges were already dropped against the Thai man who refused to stand for the royal anthem; we will rationalize the law on lese majeste; etc. etc.
Suwicha Thakor still locked up
StanG: I wonder if those ordinary Thai’s (the ones whose feelings you care so much about 🙂 would be quite so offended if they were able to see all the facts?
Under the current system, they are only fed a diet of glorifying comments, as anything negative gets blocked out by your LM laws. After being fed such a diet, it’s little wonder that their feelings might get hurt on the odd occasion anything less than fawning (no matter how truthful) might accidently slip through the LM net.
Suwicha Thakor still locked up
StanG: What about those ordinary Thai’s who are offended by the way illegal military coups are endorsed, and how the perpetrators are exonerated, sometimes even rewarded?
International Crisis Group on Thailand’s divide
Kenneth Adelman is one of the 45 members of the ICG board, a group of highly experienced and capable people from many backgrounds. Its co-chairs are Lord Christopher Patten and Thomas R. Pickering. Adelman is identified on ICG’s website as “Former U.S. Ambassador and Director of the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency.”
Adelman has been critical of the Thai government, including its compulsory licensing decisions. He is counsel to Edelman Public Relations, a firm that Thaksin briefly hired in 2007. Obviously, therefore, Adelman is on Thaksin’s payroll, as are ICG and the other 44 board members and all the researchers and professionals who wrote the July 5 report. The report therefore has no credibility or worthwhile suggestions; it is just another ploy to bring back Thaksin.
Good sleuthing, StanG.
Help us profile Thailand’s national reform committees
old movie is on the show again….
International Crisis Group on Thailand’s divide
Dan, Dems tried that after 2009 riots when they quickly returned reds their public space – their media, TV, magazines, freedom of assembly etc.
All it did was encourage red leaders to further radicalize their flock and to hold even bigger round of protests that inevitably ended in even bigger violence.
Should the government try that “solution” again? Only if it is unbelievably stupid.
Reds are taking up arms and resorting to violent methods not because they don’t have legitimate mechanisms to participate in politics, it’s because they want to impose their will on the rest of the country by any means necessary and “defeat” is not an option.
International Crisis Group on Thailand’s divide
If Thaksin wasn’t corrupt he’d probably still be Prime Minister today. But the underlying problem wasn’t really Thaksin per se, it was Thailand’s pitifully weak governance. The system isn’t strong enough to contain or remove a corrupt leader through due process.
Hence the coup, a reaction to Thaksin’s abuse of power, but itself an abuse of power and another symptom of exactly the same problem.
There’s only way to get off the tyrant => coup => tyrant cycle: Fix the governance. Things won’t get better until politicians expect to be caught and punished for corruption and military commanders expect to be caught and shot for mutiny.
Thanong on King Bhumibol
Nuomi #40: “The Two Lives of King Chulalongkorn” – is this a book? I did a quick google search, can’t find any reference to it.
Thai media culture in the eyes of a foreigner
Sam Deedes #27 – “I would single out the Patravadi theatre for creating artistic bridges of great quality between Thailand and the outside world.” Please expand – I’d be interested to know your views on this.
I’ve seen their Sunday night student shows & the magnificent production, ‘Eclipse’, a wonderfully eclectic mix of dance & mime styles from Bali, Thailand and neighbours, Japan, U.S., etc., including Japanese traditional drumming, and consider it one of the best pieces of theatre I’ve seen in my life – on the same level as ‘The Ramayana’ at Prambanam Temple in Central Java, & Peter Brooke’s work on ‘Conference of the Birds’ and ‘Mahabharata’. This is the sort of stuff the Misery of Culture should be supporting!
Thailand: A Battle Ground for the New Cold War?
@David Brown
I wrote a paper on the inner workings of the Chinese Communist Party in 2006 while studying at Tsinghua University.
I’m happy to share it if interested.
Thailand in crisis: Episode 4
plan B’ s comments about Myanmar ( Burma) are on the ball.
Last week during a talk about teaching refugees in Chiang Mai, we were told about how access was denied to one of the many building sites here where all the workers are from Shan State.
Workers with their families (basicaly as hostages), no knowledge of Thai language or society beyond their work place and no money are effectively forced laborers.
For sure the values of the SPDC dictatorship are becoming entrenched in Thailand.
Thailand: A Battle Ground for the New Cold War?
[…] Thailand and A New Cold War? Scott Hipsher has an interesting article over at NM: Thailand: A Battle Ground for the New Cold War? For those who view Thailand and Thai politics as a "joke", this article will be of no […]
Abhisit’s distinction
“I do not, and cannot see, how any discussion on the Monarchy, can in any way, constitute a threat to national security.”
If you have a conception of the state (in the manner of Louis XIV) which identifies the King with the state, then I guess it’s possible. It’s insane but it’s possible.
Abhisit’s distinction
If these words of PM Abhisit are the beginning of an honest discussion or dialogue, and not the be-all and end-all, then I am happy. If they are not, then I am not.
International Crisis Group on Thailand’s divide
Your logic only seems to make sense if you accept the pretty dubious premise that disagreeing with the Democrats is illegitimate. It’s in fact perfectly reasonable to disagree utterly with the reds and yet say that their conflict with the government should be solved in a public democratic space. All that is required for this is a belief that public disagreements with governments are legitimate. If you wanted to make an analogy with crime, it might be better to say that in the name of reducing the crime rate, the government should attempt to solve issues of poverty because all poverty does is turn people into criminals. Likewise, if the Democrats want to avoid a violent turn in politics, they should open, not close, the democratic space.
Thai media culture in the eyes of a foreigner
the reason that it could appear that (some) yellow and red people may seem to be similar is because they all get fed, by and large, from the same extremely restricted news sources
the Thai redshirts dont see any news of leftist movements in the rest of the world.
They were fortunate for a brief while to get some news of their own movement. I expect their media could have a bit more international focus bur suspect that they were struggling just to service its own needs
Now the redshirts only see government propaganda.
I wonder if and how leftists in other countries get a broader perspective?
Thai media culture in the eyes of a foreigner
Jana said: She uses a pseudonym for her activities in Burma to protect herself from the world’s most oppressive and evil regime. The fact that she must now do the same here, to protect herself from ordinary Thai people, saddens her deeply.
I don’t think the Burmese junta is the most oppressive and evil regime in the world. It’s her neighbour instead. Burmese junta never commit any large-scale massacre in the broad daylight, in front of the global medias, inside a temple( which supposed to be a ‘NO KILLING ZONE’) And please don’t put all the blame to those poor people. They’re programmed (and coerced) to think and do so by the world’s most oppressive and evil regime(in your own term). Blame the right one(s).
Congratulation GreedThai #1, you got the highest rate ! ( the New Mandala’s record?).
Thailand in Crisis: แปลเป็นภาษาไทย
Nuomi
Firefox has an addon called download helper that can download from YouTube or direct from New Mandala (although its better/faster to load from YouTube)
Once installed there is an icon that lights up and rotates whenever some compatible media is recognised, click and select the one you want and save
good luck
Abhisit’s distinction
Without in any way detracting from your dislike of the various past & present eels of Thai politics, I have this much to say about Suphanburi. It would be better managed if it were divided more equally with other jungwats. People like Barnharn did nothing to prevent this crisis developing. So why hero-worship the man who helped, big-time, to get us into this mess.