# 46
I am VERY aware that major drug dealers in Thailand exist within the military and the police. Indeed, they probably control those groups to all intents and purposes. And Thaksin did nothing against them. Didn’t want to cause disaffection amongst some of his greatest cronies, did he? So he just destroyed the small fry evidence to cover their scummy backs. Typical bent cop!
Thaksin was no more and no less transparent than the current set of rogues. We need to compare him with long-established honest brokers, not with other megalomaniacs who believe they have a divine right. You can prove practically anything if you start playing the comparative statistics spin game. He ran the country by fear and favoritism. A true terrorist by any criteria. Same as those who preceded him, and same as those who are now in competition with him.
Serious brainpower? You have far too much respect for a man who is a walking political flip-flop. You also seem to have a fairly strange notion of what makes a ‘high-quality’ officer. You mean the sort of man who manages to get his comparatively well-equipped unit completely routed by a rag-tag bunch of Laotian irregulars, abandoning dozens of casualties in the process. It is all too obvious that his ability as an officer was compromised by his constant desire to engage in far too many dirty tricks. Likewise Thaksin.
Some people spend a life time complaining about the parlous state of the country, but still want to hero-worship these dubious criminal elements,because they superficially look like ‘hard men’. Therein lies Thailand’s failure. Political ‘strongmen’ have completely failed this country. Why crave for more?
I think the contributors are so far missing a trick here, something that has not escaped the attention of Paul Chambers.
The author mentions several times that all the military reshuffling is revolving around the Queen’s Guards corps. I think there is a sub-text here that Mr. Chambers would like us to consider
David Brown,
That 1 AirForce was shot by Army soldiers because he drove into free fire zone without coordinating, it was the fracticide. He was not killed by Redshirts or Ronins, the army soldiers thought he was a Redshirt. Actually he was ordered by the government to guard the the goverment house but he went there (with an air force officer who got wounded) with unidentified purpose.
I agreed with peace and reconciliation however if the freedom of speech is being suppress here, its very hard to talk about the core of the problem in Thailand. I don’t know whether the author attacking on Thaksin’s corruption is intended to make the article more neutral or the author really believed that legacy of political elitism was started by Thaksin. In my opinion, legacy of political elitism was started by Democrat with their power grip in the South of Thailand.
I tend to think of the situation in parallel to “Maslow’s Hierarchy of Need – Motivation” theory that before poor people are, well, poor so they have to fulfill their need in the hierarchy order. Before Thaksin, the only need that the poor has been fulfill was Physiological and they have been waiting for century for their next fulfillment. Now at the eve of Thaksin era, Safety and Social needs has been fulfill by Thaksin’s populist policy. However, because of the Coup of 2006, people from this emerging poor now realized that they have been deny the next step of the hierarchy, the Esteem needs. All in all, I agreed that the Mr. Herbertson’s suggestion for the road map, but without mentioning another very important and influential institution, I think the roadmap will not achieve the long term result, like the reconciliation in the 80s
If the government quits amidst an intense security situation (and while large groups of people are holding counter-protests which say “do not dissolve right now”), is there a precedent? or are the precedents in favour of a timetable greater than a matter of days (i.e. at least a few months)? They are in favour of timetables on the scale of months. That was a “genuine grievance”.
If you read my earlier post, you will know that actually I have to thank Abhisit for not dissolve the house and actually decide to to crack down and now trying to purge of the red, if you read the news one red leader in Kon Kean and one in Chaiyaphume had been murdered. Abhisit just accelerate the inevitable, thanks to him.
Srithanonchai # 79 – was n’t Wassana fired from her job during this crisis ?
I remember reading that, but perhaps mistaken.
Certainly she had a falling out with sections of the military, of which it is her very difficult job to report on and analyse.
Anyhow – good to see she’s back.
A very fine, first-class journalist : a small step perhaps t0wards reconciliation, if she was fired and has now been re-installed.
She’s a genuine Thai gem.
High school students who perform poorly in computer studies, maths and sciences now have new friends to share the pain – their teachers.
Teachers in secondary schools have had to sit exams in these subjects for the first time, with alarming results,
Most teaching at the senior high school level failed the tests, the Office of the Basic Education Commission said.
”Even teachers fail, so how can we raise the quality of students?” Education Minister Chinnaworn Boonyakiat said yesterday after being informed of the results by Obec.
An exam requirement says examinees who earn a mark of less than 59% are considered to have a low standard of knowledge.
Obec said up to 88% of 3,973 teachers who specialise in computer sciences failed the test. A high number of failing teachers was also found in biology (86% of 2,846), maths (84% of 5,498), physics (71% of 3,487), chemistry (64% of 3,088) and astronomy and earth sciences (63% of 529).
The only consolation came from teachers at the junior high level. They earned high marks. Obec said 58% of 14,816 teachers teaching maths were categorised in the grade A group with marks of more than 80%, while 54% of 13,385 teachers did very well in sciences.
”This is the first time the ministry tested teachers nationwide in a move to develop teachers under the Thai Khem Khaeng [Thai strength] scheme,” Mr Chinnaworn said.
The ministry has set a budget of 1.4 billion baht under the Thai Khem Khaeng scheme to improve the academic standards of teachers.
Mr Chinnaworn said the ministry aimed to build two groups of teachers under the development plan. Teachers at the elementary and junior high levels could be trained to improve their skills in integrated teaching _ one teacher able to teach more than one subject _ while those at the senior high level would be trained to have stronger expertise in specific subjects.
The upgrade of teachers is part of the ministry’s plan to increase students’ abilities.
”All students at the basic education level must earn more than 50% of the O-Net [Ordinary National Education Test] by 2018,” Mr Chinnaworn said.
O-Net tests the general knowledge of students in Prathom 3 and 6 and Mathayom 3 and 6.
Obec has announced information and computer technology and English exam results of school directors. About 95% of about 40,000 directors failed the tests, Mr Chinnaworn said.
This is a an extremely worrying.
If teachers themselves cannot remember and recall enough ‘facts’ to pass a multiple choice test paper, I wonder how they ‘teach’ the same (useless) pieces of information to a developing mind for that person to pass the same test?
When you also consider that critical and problem solving skills are not fostered or supported here, what hope then for the young people of Thailand?
As has been opined here previously, is this some dark plan designed to keep the young ignorant, in their place and forever in unthinking feality to a remnant of a bygone (imagined) golden age
Is there nothing wrong? I am not sure. I couldn’t tell. It’s worth asking. It’s worth each of us asking ourselves this.
Much as it can lead to propaganda instead of reason in arguments, it would be a shame if these views no longer had any following, especially among the young. I think that was what I was trying to say.
There is no explicit call for the dissolution of parliament and an election. I don’t see how there can be reconciliation without an elected government in place.
As well there is no explicit call for the immediate end of Thaksin’s Emergency Decree.
“Almost thirty years later the generals abruptly resumed the diplomatic relation and started secret arms dealings with North Korea…..”
Uh – if it’s ‘secret’ – how do you know?
If there’s one thing the DVB documentary did is it conclusively debunked the earlier story by Desmond Ball that the Burmese at Myaing had a ‘secret’ Russian nuclear reactor or that the N Koreans were involved there in any way. Seems there’s only a machine parts ‘factory’ with no Koreans in sight.
The people who propagate this stuff (beyond whatever cold facts there may be) seem not to realize that they are playing right into the hands of Than Shwe.
Whats better leverage than having nuclear weapons? Seeming like you might be getting nuclear weapons.
Steve #44, spot on! I couldn’t believe the number of presents (shirts, books, etc.) that suddenly started coming my way at the end of my first semester at a university here. I was baffled at first, & then it dawned on me – exams were coming up. I made up a light-hearted little speech about how nice it was to be offered such tokens of appreciation before the exams, but, for me the greatest reward for my efforts as a teacher would be for all the students to get good pass-marks. Therefore, I requested every student to make me a present of this kind, & not to spend their money on material gifts which I could not possibly accept. They laughed, & I have continued to use this for the remainder of my time here.
I have been told that Thai teachers, who are very poorly paid, do get cash presents, & many do change scores as a result. This is not limited to universities; farang teachers have frequently told me of their embarrassment about gifts from the parents of even kindergarten kids. “It’s cultural,” some teachers say, “Don’t rock the boat.”
I did read that Bangkok Post article cited by Srithanonchai – #79. PM Abhisit is rapidly moving forward with his reconciliation map, and finding the truth at what happened (before and) during the crackdown, include the temple massacre, is top of his search-for-the-truth mission.
PM Abhisit’s independent fact-finding commissions will more likely uncover the ‘truth’, and, the truth will be very damning. (Reason perhaps why so many PTP and UDD leaders, including the No. 1 citizen of Montenegro Mr. Thaksin Shinawatra, are already bad mouthing PM Abhisit’s roadmap).
But will the remnants of the Reds, and the opposition PTP, accept the findings?
Largely missed in this discussion is the obvious point that real gripe of Thaksin and his red shirt leaders against the government is actually that they didn’t kill nearly enough red shirts. A five year old child could see that the main objective of the red shirt protests since April 2009 has been to provoke a much bloodier and more spectacular suppression by the military than they actually achieved this time, in order to engineer a sudden collapse of the government and a consequent power vacuum that would allow Thaksin to come back under an amnesty and resume his reign of plunder and suppression. The key red shirt leaders are not exactly popular revolutionary leaders overwhelmingly supported by their own people. They are in fact Southerners who are reviled in their own provinces and motivated to lead Lanna and Isaan people, whose dialects they cannot understand, solely by Thaksin’s promises of Wall Street style bonuses. No doubt they will refine their strategy and next time will achieve the glorious body count that Thaksin has been fantasising about. The unctious Robert Amsterdam and the rest of the team of foreign legal eagles can then have some serious ammunition to work with.
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Thailand in crisis – ANU video series
# 46
I am VERY aware that major drug dealers in Thailand exist within the military and the police. Indeed, they probably control those groups to all intents and purposes. And Thaksin did nothing against them. Didn’t want to cause disaffection amongst some of his greatest cronies, did he? So he just destroyed the small fry evidence to cover their scummy backs. Typical bent cop!
Thaksin was no more and no less transparent than the current set of rogues. We need to compare him with long-established honest brokers, not with other megalomaniacs who believe they have a divine right. You can prove practically anything if you start playing the comparative statistics spin game. He ran the country by fear and favoritism. A true terrorist by any criteria. Same as those who preceded him, and same as those who are now in competition with him.
The challenges for Thailand’s arch-royalist military
#14
Serious brainpower? You have far too much respect for a man who is a walking political flip-flop. You also seem to have a fairly strange notion of what makes a ‘high-quality’ officer. You mean the sort of man who manages to get his comparatively well-equipped unit completely routed by a rag-tag bunch of Laotian irregulars, abandoning dozens of casualties in the process. It is all too obvious that his ability as an officer was compromised by his constant desire to engage in far too many dirty tricks. Likewise Thaksin.
Some people spend a life time complaining about the parlous state of the country, but still want to hero-worship these dubious criminal elements,because they superficially look like ‘hard men’. Therein lies Thailand’s failure. Political ‘strongmen’ have completely failed this country. Why crave for more?
The challenges for Thailand’s arch-royalist military
I think the contributors are so far missing a trick here, something that has not escaped the attention of Paul Chambers.
The author mentions several times that all the military reshuffling is revolving around the Queen’s Guards corps. I think there is a sub-text here that Mr. Chambers would like us to consider
Thailand in crisis – Episode 2
David Brown,
That 1 AirForce was shot by Army soldiers because he drove into free fire zone without coordinating, it was the fracticide. He was not killed by Redshirts or Ronins, the army soldiers thought he was a Redshirt. Actually he was ordered by the government to guard the the goverment house but he went there (with an air force officer who got wounded) with unidentified purpose.
Reconciliation: climbing the mountain
Soi 4 sounds good!
Reconciliation: climbing the mountain
I agreed with peace and reconciliation however if the freedom of speech is being suppress here, its very hard to talk about the core of the problem in Thailand. I don’t know whether the author attacking on Thaksin’s corruption is intended to make the article more neutral or the author really believed that legacy of political elitism was started by Thaksin. In my opinion, legacy of political elitism was started by Democrat with their power grip in the South of Thailand.
I tend to think of the situation in parallel to “Maslow’s Hierarchy of Need – Motivation” theory that before poor people are, well, poor so they have to fulfill their need in the hierarchy order. Before Thaksin, the only need that the poor has been fulfill was Physiological and they have been waiting for century for their next fulfillment. Now at the eve of Thaksin era, Safety and Social needs has been fulfill by Thaksin’s populist policy. However, because of the Coup of 2006, people from this emerging poor now realized that they have been deny the next step of the hierarchy, the Esteem needs. All in all, I agreed that the Mr. Herbertson’s suggestion for the road map, but without mentioning another very important and influential institution, I think the roadmap will not achieve the long term result, like the reconciliation in the 80s
The challenges for Thailand’s arch-royalist military
Tarrin #14 – if Big Jiw has such brains and influence, how come he was able to get a better outcome for the Red Shirts than this ?
Violating human rights? Yes, indeed!
Ben – 78
If the government quits amidst an intense security situation (and while large groups of people are holding counter-protests which say “do not dissolve right now”), is there a precedent? or are the precedents in favour of a timetable greater than a matter of days (i.e. at least a few months)? They are in favour of timetables on the scale of months. That was a “genuine grievance”.
If you read my earlier post, you will know that actually I have to thank Abhisit for not dissolve the house and actually decide to to crack down and now trying to purge of the red, if you read the news one red leader in Kon Kean and one in Chaiyaphume had been murdered. Abhisit just accelerate the inevitable, thanks to him.
Violating human rights? Yes, indeed!
Srithanonchai # 79 – was n’t Wassana fired from her job during this crisis ?
I remember reading that, but perhaps mistaken.
Certainly she had a falling out with sections of the military, of which it is her very difficult job to report on and analyse.
Anyhow – good to see she’s back.
A very fine, first-class journalist : a small step perhaps t0wards reconciliation, if she was fired and has now been re-installed.
She’s a genuine Thai gem.
An essay on “the dismal state of Thai education”
This piece from the BP provides the frightening truth about the abject state of teacher knowledge in Thailand.
I posted this on ‘What next for Thailand?’ a few days ago, but as it hasn’t been moderated yet, I’ve put it here.
The original BP article adds a few more figures to Colum Graham’s earlier post .
http://www.bangkokpost.com/life/education/38353/teachers-fail-exams-on-own-subjects
High school students who perform poorly in computer studies, maths and sciences now have new friends to share the pain – their teachers.
Teachers in secondary schools have had to sit exams in these subjects for the first time, with alarming results,
Most teaching at the senior high school level failed the tests, the Office of the Basic Education Commission said.
”Even teachers fail, so how can we raise the quality of students?” Education Minister Chinnaworn Boonyakiat said yesterday after being informed of the results by Obec.
An exam requirement says examinees who earn a mark of less than 59% are considered to have a low standard of knowledge.
Obec said up to 88% of 3,973 teachers who specialise in computer sciences failed the test. A high number of failing teachers was also found in biology (86% of 2,846), maths (84% of 5,498), physics (71% of 3,487), chemistry (64% of 3,088) and astronomy and earth sciences (63% of 529).
The only consolation came from teachers at the junior high level. They earned high marks. Obec said 58% of 14,816 teachers teaching maths were categorised in the grade A group with marks of more than 80%, while 54% of 13,385 teachers did very well in sciences.
”This is the first time the ministry tested teachers nationwide in a move to develop teachers under the Thai Khem Khaeng [Thai strength] scheme,” Mr Chinnaworn said.
The ministry has set a budget of 1.4 billion baht under the Thai Khem Khaeng scheme to improve the academic standards of teachers.
Mr Chinnaworn said the ministry aimed to build two groups of teachers under the development plan. Teachers at the elementary and junior high levels could be trained to improve their skills in integrated teaching _ one teacher able to teach more than one subject _ while those at the senior high level would be trained to have stronger expertise in specific subjects.
The upgrade of teachers is part of the ministry’s plan to increase students’ abilities.
”All students at the basic education level must earn more than 50% of the O-Net [Ordinary National Education Test] by 2018,” Mr Chinnaworn said.
O-Net tests the general knowledge of students in Prathom 3 and 6 and Mathayom 3 and 6.
Obec has announced information and computer technology and English exam results of school directors. About 95% of about 40,000 directors failed the tests, Mr Chinnaworn said.
This is a an extremely worrying.
If teachers themselves cannot remember and recall enough ‘facts’ to pass a multiple choice test paper, I wonder how they ‘teach’ the same (useless) pieces of information to a developing mind for that person to pass the same test?
When you also consider that critical and problem solving skills are not fostered or supported here, what hope then for the young people of Thailand?
As has been opined here previously, is this some dark plan designed to keep the young ignorant, in their place and forever in unthinking feality to a remnant of a bygone (imagined) golden age
Violating human rights? Yes, indeed!
Ben – 77
Is there nothing wrong? I am not sure. I couldn’t tell. It’s worth asking. It’s worth each of us asking ourselves this.
Much as it can lead to propaganda instead of reason in arguments, it would be a shame if these views no longer had any following, especially among the young. I think that was what I was trying to say.
Reconciliation: climbing the mountain
There is no explicit call for the dissolution of parliament and an election. I don’t see how there can be reconciliation without an elected government in place.
As well there is no explicit call for the immediate end of Thaksin’s Emergency Decree.
Otherwise a nice theoretical exercise.
Question of the month: Burma and WMD?
Hla Oo says:
“Almost thirty years later the generals abruptly resumed the diplomatic relation and started secret arms dealings with North Korea…..”
Uh – if it’s ‘secret’ – how do you know?
If there’s one thing the DVB documentary did is it conclusively debunked the earlier story by Desmond Ball that the Burmese at Myaing had a ‘secret’ Russian nuclear reactor or that the N Koreans were involved there in any way. Seems there’s only a machine parts ‘factory’ with no Koreans in sight.
The people who propagate this stuff (beyond whatever cold facts there may be) seem not to realize that they are playing right into the hands of Than Shwe.
Whats better leverage than having nuclear weapons? Seeming like you might be getting nuclear weapons.
The challenges for Thailand’s arch-royalist military
re. #16: on the first photo @ Werewolf’s Lair, when one runs a mouse over it, the message “prem_tinsulanonda_cropped” comes up. Is this an in-joke?
An essay on “the dismal state of Thai education”
Steve #44, spot on! I couldn’t believe the number of presents (shirts, books, etc.) that suddenly started coming my way at the end of my first semester at a university here. I was baffled at first, & then it dawned on me – exams were coming up. I made up a light-hearted little speech about how nice it was to be offered such tokens of appreciation before the exams, but, for me the greatest reward for my efforts as a teacher would be for all the students to get good pass-marks. Therefore, I requested every student to make me a present of this kind, & not to spend their money on material gifts which I could not possibly accept. They laughed, & I have continued to use this for the remainder of my time here.
I have been told that Thai teachers, who are very poorly paid, do get cash presents, & many do change scores as a result. This is not limited to universities; farang teachers have frequently told me of their embarrassment about gifts from the parents of even kindergarten kids. “It’s cultural,” some teachers say, “Don’t rock the boat.”
Reconciliation: climbing the mountain
Has to be one of the best article re the current turmoil Ive read.
Violating human rights? Yes, indeed!
I did read that Bangkok Post article cited by Srithanonchai – #79. PM Abhisit is rapidly moving forward with his reconciliation map, and finding the truth at what happened (before and) during the crackdown, include the temple massacre, is top of his search-for-the-truth mission.
PM Abhisit’s independent fact-finding commissions will more likely uncover the ‘truth’, and, the truth will be very damning. (Reason perhaps why so many PTP and UDD leaders, including the No. 1 citizen of Montenegro Mr. Thaksin Shinawatra, are already bad mouthing PM Abhisit’s roadmap).
But will the remnants of the Reds, and the opposition PTP, accept the findings?
Violating human rights? Yes, indeed!
Del #74
You might want to read Wassana Nanuam’s latest article in the Bangkok Post:
“Let the truth be known: what happened at the temple”
http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/38495/let-the-truth-be-known-what-happened-at-the-temple
Violating human rights? Yes, indeed!
Largely missed in this discussion is the obvious point that real gripe of Thaksin and his red shirt leaders against the government is actually that they didn’t kill nearly enough red shirts. A five year old child could see that the main objective of the red shirt protests since April 2009 has been to provoke a much bloodier and more spectacular suppression by the military than they actually achieved this time, in order to engineer a sudden collapse of the government and a consequent power vacuum that would allow Thaksin to come back under an amnesty and resume his reign of plunder and suppression. The key red shirt leaders are not exactly popular revolutionary leaders overwhelmingly supported by their own people. They are in fact Southerners who are reviled in their own provinces and motivated to lead Lanna and Isaan people, whose dialects they cannot understand, solely by Thaksin’s promises of Wall Street style bonuses. No doubt they will refine their strategy and next time will achieve the glorious body count that Thaksin has been fantasising about. The unctious Robert Amsterdam and the rest of the team of foreign legal eagles can then have some serious ammunition to work with.
Thailand in crisis – Episode 2
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