Getting the CRES message (in Thai) for all of the links at the office using ToT.
This rather frustrating, and I actually feel disrespected, like the govt is treating its own people as if we lack the maturity to process information and formulate our own opinions.
Nich, I suppose this means they’re on to the NM site, and that those of us in Thailand should choose our words more carefully when we post.
Its most likely been blocked as you have a Thai translation on there. I was looking back through your older posts for Thai translations and all the ones I could find were blocked.
“By now there should have been already lots of photos/clips on the internet showing unarmed ‘innocent’ protesters getting shot at by the troops during the crackdown. But so far none – NONE!”
I don’t buyThomas Hoy’s argument that ” . . .if I was in this sort of situation, I don’t think I’d have stayed around to take snapshots. Some might but I’d have been running and hiding.”
Because in fact there were lots and lots of photos/video clips about ‘the situations’ before and during the protests/crackdown . . . but those photos/clips captured the Reds leaders/black-clad Ronins at their ugliest . . . damning evidences w/c no doubt may get those Reds leaders jailed or worse.
Even at the no-confidence debate, there were hardly anything new (no smoking guns) from the opposition camp to refute PM Abhisit’s/Suthep’s assertions that the government had taken every necessary measure to restore order with the use of ‘measured force’ to prevent as much bloodshed possible under those difficult circumstances.
I’ve got ToT in Sukhumvit, and can’t access the page mentioned recently as blocked, nor Nick’s photo essay, nor the page that apparently describes Nick’s experience of chatting to Abhisit. Grrrrr.
Although I don’t agree with your premise that the Blackshirts were entirely unarmed, I would suggest there was not very many of them and whatever threat they posed was greatly overstated.
Ahbisit told us 500 armed dangerous terrorist were waiting to do battle a threat to the nation and monarchy, looking at the casualties this level of threat is not supported. 8 dead soldiers across the two months of protest. Five of these soldiers died on the 10th April, I believe they were all victims of the initial grenade attack which started the violence. Some have suggested this attack was part of an internal army feud or the grenade could have come from Sah Deangs ronin. Of the other 3 deaths, Priv Nongrit sala killed by freindly fire on 28th April, Sgt. Phongchalit Thipayanontakan killed on 17th May also friendly fire, Sgt. Anusit Chansaento on 20th May whom I think was shot with his own weapon as seen in video from TNN.
This means that from 11 April to 19 May, a period which saw the most prolonged fighting, these men in black killed nobody. Now there may be injured soldiers in hospital with wounds sustained in gun battles with Blackshirts, but if their were I am sure Suthep would be displaying photos of their gunshot wounds, so I take it from the silence that their are no soldiers with gunshot wounds.
There was of course a grenade attack on the 19th which injured a Canadian journalist called Chandler along with 3 soldiers. We are always told that these attacks are M79, but how, given the lack of forensic investigation, do we know they are not home made explosives. Just because Suthep and the nation keep repeating it does not make it true.
In fact the one forensic investigation we had, proved Suthep to be lying.
The Sala Daeng M79 attack now that is a strange one remember what Suthep told us “The M79 grenades were fired from behind the Rama 6 monument”, this was 3 hours after the grenade attack in a statement on ASTV. Also Deputy Bangkok Governor Thirachon Manomaipibul said video records from security cameras of the BTS’ Saladaeng station showed that m79 grenades were fired from the Lumpini Park. We still haven’t seen this video evidence.
Then we have Khunying MD Pornthip telling us in her report that the grenades were fried from inside Chulalongkorn hospital.
The same hospital that refused to treat police officers injured fighting the PAD in 2008.
Yesterday Suthep told us there were no soldiers on the BTS on the 19th may despite a multitude of video, photographic evidence and witness testimony contradicting this.
Also as the Bangkok pundit has pointed out he is even contradicted by his own troops
“Lt General Daopong Ratanasuwan, the Army’s assistant chief of staff for operations, said troops from the 1st Division, the King’s Guard, were stationed at Siam BTS Station on May 19. They were ordered not to move closer to the temple, which was about 300 metres away. He insisted the troops were at the spot all night and entered the temple the following morning (May 20) to help police send demonstrators back home.”
Suthep has consistently been found out quite blatantly lying through his teeth, how can we believe anything that comes out from the CRES.
I live about 80 kilos north of Chiang Mai with TOT high speed turtlenet. Was blocked from all the links, but got through via a proxy server someone mentioned on this site a couple of weeks ago. thanks for posting the update. Going to forward to some friends in the US who care
Nothing has been blocked. Nothing happened. There is nothing to deny……everything is according to “the Rule of Law” under “International Standards”……..under the “Reconciliation Roadmap”, all “wrong” information is illegal and does not exist…….
The article is really just saying that the US will work with whoever is in power in Thailand as long as they stay US aligned. Nothing else matters – certainly not democracy. This is nothing new to anybody who knows anything about US history.
I expect, as before, that the blocking of the page is incomplete…and perhaps there are some ISPs that are not blocking. If any other readers in Thailand are having trouble accessing specific pages of New Mandala please do let us know.
Stop treating The Regime in Bangkok as though it were anything other that the totalitarian military dictatorship that it is. With smirking Mr Clean performing for those who “wanna believe”.
BlackOnBlackIWantMyBabyBack #259.
It’s truly refreshing to read some evenly tempered reason. Thanks for that.
Some inflammatory rhetoric from the UDD leaders themselves that would seem to suggest the black shirts (and/or a violent/militant wing) ARE linked to the red movment.
The photo essay referred to above is blocked on 3BB in Chiang Mai – June 1
Just get blank white page. I know its blocked because I checked other ways of accessing, no problem.
It’s very easy to selectively post a few graphic videos and claim the government is evil. So maybe we should look a little wider.
If you want to know why use of live ammunition was necessary, the first two videos below show what happened on April 10 when the army first tried to disperse the protest using *riot gear only*.
* Grenade attack on Thai troops and its aftermath:
So next time, the soliders are given live bullets as well. Hardly unreasonable, when they had to deal with things like this:
* M79 grenade launch 7min 15 second mark (I live nearby this site and they had no shortage of grenades). Several more after 9 min mark, wounding a few soliders and a journalist. Army asking them to stop shooting at the local fire brigade guys, 2.10 mark:
It’s a far more disturbing reality to consider the black shirts ARE connected to the UDD than to blind oneself with these ‘conspiracy theories’ – which you seem very good at doing – of the contrary. Your ‘wishful thinking’ alone, which amongst other things, now (260) includes this notion they could perhaps be covert operatives obeying (in your words): “direct orders from one or more of the top level elites at early morning meetings” – is part of your fundamental hope they’re
some how connected with this government (in one form or another).
You also state “it seems vitally important to the government as their case rests almost exclusively on their claim that the blacks are red related”. But it seems more important to YOU to prove the contrary as YOUR case (the reds are pacifistic and democratic) rests almost exclusively on your claim the blacks AREN’T related to the reds.
As I said, I think the reality is far more sinister.
“Thailand’s “democracy” is still fragile and young and in my view hasn’t really got off the ground yet. ”
Just briefly, my comment above effectively says that Thailand is under a military/elites dictatorship with parliament providing a “play of Democracy” primarily for international consumption.
At this moment the possibility of democratic elections and acceptance of the result seems slim indeed.
The parliament censure debate is being live broadcast and there were snippets on twitter indicating a large number of Thai people were watching last night, perhaps to see/hear Jatuporn?
If so this could be a significant opportunity for some balancing Peu Thai/redshirt messages to be heard which are normally denied to Thai people and a boost for the possibility of improved democratic practice in Thailand.
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Surely, it’s just a coincidence
Getting the CRES message (in Thai) for all of the links at the office using ToT.
This rather frustrating, and I actually feel disrespected, like the govt is treating its own people as if we lack the maturity to process information and formulate our own opinions.
Nich, I suppose this means they’re on to the NM site, and that those of us in Thailand should choose our words more carefully when we post.
-RD
Surely, it’s just a coincidence
Its most likely been blocked as you have a Thai translation on there. I was looking back through your older posts for Thai translations and all the ones I could find were blocked.
Enemies, foreign and domestic
“By now there should have been already lots of photos/clips on the internet showing unarmed ‘innocent’ protesters getting shot at by the troops during the crackdown. But so far none – NONE!”
I don’t buyThomas Hoy’s argument that ” . . .if I was in this sort of situation, I don’t think I’d have stayed around to take snapshots. Some might but I’d have been running and hiding.”
Because in fact there were lots and lots of photos/video clips about ‘the situations’ before and during the protests/crackdown . . . but those photos/clips captured the Reds leaders/black-clad Ronins at their ugliest . . . damning evidences w/c no doubt may get those Reds leaders jailed or worse.
Even at the no-confidence debate, there were hardly anything new (no smoking guns) from the opposition camp to refute PM Abhisit’s/Suthep’s assertions that the government had taken every necessary measure to restore order with the use of ‘measured force’ to prevent as much bloodshed possible under those difficult circumstances.
Surely, it’s just a coincidence
I’ve got ToT in Sukhumvit, and can’t access the page mentioned recently as blocked, nor Nick’s photo essay, nor the page that apparently describes Nick’s experience of chatting to Abhisit. Grrrrr.
Surely, it’s just a coincidence
I’m unable to post comments on Nick’s photo essay, but I was just south of Soi Rangnam on the same day, these might have been the ones that Nick heard being captured over the wall (Para 8): http://www.demotix.com/news/330515/anti-government-protesters-captured
And if you’ll forgive the shameless self-promotion, more pics from the same day here:http://www.demotix.com/news/330552/embattled-and-defiant-bangkoks-conflict-continues
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
David Brown
Although I don’t agree with your premise that the Blackshirts were entirely unarmed, I would suggest there was not very many of them and whatever threat they posed was greatly overstated.
Ahbisit told us 500 armed dangerous terrorist were waiting to do battle a threat to the nation and monarchy, looking at the casualties this level of threat is not supported. 8 dead soldiers across the two months of protest. Five of these soldiers died on the 10th April, I believe they were all victims of the initial grenade attack which started the violence. Some have suggested this attack was part of an internal army feud or the grenade could have come from Sah Deangs ronin. Of the other 3 deaths, Priv Nongrit sala killed by freindly fire on 28th April, Sgt. Phongchalit Thipayanontakan killed on 17th May also friendly fire, Sgt. Anusit Chansaento on 20th May whom I think was shot with his own weapon as seen in video from TNN.
This means that from 11 April to 19 May, a period which saw the most prolonged fighting, these men in black killed nobody. Now there may be injured soldiers in hospital with wounds sustained in gun battles with Blackshirts, but if their were I am sure Suthep would be displaying photos of their gunshot wounds, so I take it from the silence that their are no soldiers with gunshot wounds.
There was of course a grenade attack on the 19th which injured a Canadian journalist called Chandler along with 3 soldiers. We are always told that these attacks are M79, but how, given the lack of forensic investigation, do we know they are not home made explosives. Just because Suthep and the nation keep repeating it does not make it true.
In fact the one forensic investigation we had, proved Suthep to be lying.
The Sala Daeng M79 attack now that is a strange one remember what Suthep told us “The M79 grenades were fired from behind the Rama 6 monument”, this was 3 hours after the grenade attack in a statement on ASTV. Also Deputy Bangkok Governor Thirachon Manomaipibul said video records from security cameras of the BTS’ Saladaeng station showed that m79 grenades were fired from the Lumpini Park. We still haven’t seen this video evidence.
Then we have Khunying MD Pornthip telling us in her report that the grenades were fried from inside Chulalongkorn hospital.
http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255305050012
The same hospital that refused to treat police officers injured fighting the PAD in 2008.
Yesterday Suthep told us there were no soldiers on the BTS on the 19th may despite a multitude of video, photographic evidence and witness testimony contradicting this.
Also as the Bangkok pundit has pointed out he is even contradicted by his own troops
“Lt General Daopong Ratanasuwan, the Army’s assistant chief of staff for operations, said troops from the 1st Division, the King’s Guard, were stationed at Siam BTS Station on May 19. They were ordered not to move closer to the temple, which was about 300 metres away. He insisted the troops were at the spot all night and entered the temple the following morning (May 20) to help police send demonstrators back home.”
Suthep has consistently been found out quite blatantly lying through his teeth, how can we believe anything that comes out from the CRES.
Surely, it’s just a coincidence
Nick Nostitz’s post is blocked on the TOT ADSL. This is most annoying and counter-productive.
Surely, it’s just a coincidence
I live about 80 kilos north of Chiang Mai with TOT high speed turtlenet. Was blocked from all the links, but got through via a proxy server someone mentioned on this site a couple of weeks ago. thanks for posting the update. Going to forward to some friends in the US who care
Surely, it’s just a coincidence
Nothing has been blocked. Nothing happened. There is nothing to deny……everything is according to “the Rule of Law” under “International Standards”……..under the “Reconciliation Roadmap”, all “wrong” information is illegal and does not exist…….
Surely, it’s just a coincidence
My server is True high speed/wifi/router in the house and none of the pages are blocked. During peek hours they are slow however.
Strategic alignment: Thailand and the US
The article is really just saying that the US will work with whoever is in power in Thailand as long as they stay US aligned. Nothing else matters – certainly not democracy. This is nothing new to anybody who knows anything about US history.
Surely, it’s just a coincidence
Thanks for this quick feedback on access issues:
I expect, as before, that the blocking of the page is incomplete…and perhaps there are some ISPs that are not blocking. If any other readers in Thailand are having trouble accessing specific pages of New Mandala please do let us know.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
Surely, it’s just a coincidence
It’s blocked on my ISP (via csloxinfo) here in Sukhumvit. I have a very clear warning written in Thai.
Surely, it’s just a coincidence
Tue Jun 1 12:03:20 ICT 2010
TOT
http://www.newmandala.org/2010/05/16/nick-nostitz-in-the-killing-zone/
This website has been blocked by ICT
Stop treating The Regime in Bangkok as though it were anything other that the totalitarian military dictatorship that it is. With smirking Mr Clean performing for those who “wanna believe”.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
BlackOnBlackIWantMyBabyBack #259.
It’s truly refreshing to read some evenly tempered reason. Thanks for that.
Some inflammatory rhetoric from the UDD leaders themselves that would seem to suggest the black shirts (and/or a violent/militant wing) ARE linked to the red movment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBDm-jA3N80
Surely, it’s just a coincidence
The photo essay referred to above is blocked on 3BB in Chiang Mai – June 1
Just get blank white page. I know its blocked because I checked other ways of accessing, no problem.
Strategic alignment: Thailand and the US
It’s very easy to selectively post a few graphic videos and claim the government is evil. So maybe we should look a little wider.
If you want to know why use of live ammunition was necessary, the first two videos below show what happened on April 10 when the army first tried to disperse the protest using *riot gear only*.
* Grenade attack on Thai troops and its aftermath:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnYT2-8QoPk&feature=related
* Clear footage of protestors firing AK-47s from rally site:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHNrn9btDWA&NR=1
So next time, the soliders are given live bullets as well. Hardly unreasonable, when they had to deal with things like this:
* M79 grenade launch 7min 15 second mark (I live nearby this site and they had no shortage of grenades). Several more after 9 min mark, wounding a few soliders and a journalist. Army asking them to stop shooting at the local fire brigade guys, 2.10 mark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovZ33DURAvQ
* Thai [multicoloured shirt] protest hit by multiple M79 grenades. 1 dead and 100 people injured in this attack, but hey, its not terrorism:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8ou-_pdnds&feature=related
No shortage of similar material available on Youtube from whatever media outlet you prefer.
Some people say the protesters were harshly treated. I say people who throw bombs shouldn’t complain about being shot.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
David Brown # 260.
It’s a far more disturbing reality to consider the black shirts ARE connected to the UDD than to blind oneself with these ‘conspiracy theories’ – which you seem very good at doing – of the contrary. Your ‘wishful thinking’ alone, which amongst other things, now (260) includes this notion they could perhaps be covert operatives obeying (in your words): “direct orders from one or more of the top level elites at early morning meetings” – is part of your fundamental hope they’re
some how connected with this government (in one form or another).
You also state “it seems vitally important to the government as their case rests almost exclusively on their claim that the blacks are red related”. But it seems more important to YOU to prove the contrary as YOUR case (the reds are pacifistic and democratic) rests almost exclusively on your claim the blacks AREN’T related to the reds.
As I said, I think the reality is far more sinister.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
BlackOnBlackIWantMyBabyBack #256
“Thailand’s “democracy” is still fragile and young and in my view hasn’t really got off the ground yet. ”
Just briefly, my comment above effectively says that Thailand is under a military/elites dictatorship with parliament providing a “play of Democracy” primarily for international consumption.
At this moment the possibility of democratic elections and acceptance of the result seems slim indeed.
The parliament censure debate is being live broadcast and there were snippets on twitter indicating a large number of Thai people were watching last night, perhaps to see/hear Jatuporn?
If so this could be a significant opportunity for some balancing Peu Thai/redshirt messages to be heard which are normally denied to Thai people and a boost for the possibility of improved democratic practice in Thailand.
Thailand’s terrorists
I found this article from ThaiENews source.
When Dissent Is Criminalized
Robert Amsterdam
May 26, 2010
Thailand’s Red Shirts have done nothing more than express their opposition to the ruling party. For this they have been labelled terrorists.