They get on the stage at a rally and are put in a military jail. Kasit gets to be foreign minister. If anyone is having a double standards contest, this has got be be in the running.
He was summoned along with former labour activist Somyos Prueksakasemsuk, editor of Red News magazine and leader of the June 24 Group to acknowledge charges of violating the emergency law at the Crime Suppression Division police on Monday.
Police said then the two appeared on the stage during a rally of the June 24 Democracy Group in front of Big C superstore, Lat Phrao branch, in violation of the emergency law.
Has there been after Khun Chanchai wrote here any exhange of email addresses for Nick to follow up maybe with him to confirm his authenticity etc? Nick is fluent in Thai I understand, and would be maybe something to follow up here, if the entry by Khun Chanchai is for real and if is, then follow more about things with him? Maybe more interviews etc. with the occupants of that house and so worth.
David Brown #16. Reforming the military is part of a longer term goal that I don’t think Abhisit will have time to work on during his remaining time in office. I think it is more constructive to look at it in economic rather than political terms. The defence budget consumes a disproporionately high percentage of the national budget, relative to developed countries, while the total tax take is too small relative to GDP. Meanwhile, what little tax is raised is eroded by corruption across the board. It is obvious that, in order to develop economically and as a society, Thailand will have to raise the overall tax take, reduce corruption and raise budgets for things like healthcare and education at the expense of defence. The military is overstaffed with officers because there is no filter to retire off the ones who are not suitable for general officership and promotion is on a seniority, connections and tea money basis, not meritocracy. A lot of taxpayers’ money is wasted on unnecessary or unsuitable equipment that generates commissions for generals and politicians. This needs to be eliminated to ensure that Thailand has a well equipped, modern defence force suited to its needs. Conscription should also probably be scrapped in favour of a smaller, professional army of better paid volunteers who are capable of using more sophisticated modern equipment.
The police are subject to much of the same criticism as the military but in addition their daily miscarriage of justice also impinges on the daily lives of ordinary people of all colour hues. Thus I think there may be a strong enough concensus to start work on that before the military, although both are going to be very challenging tasks.
… and yet they did nothing for Giles Ji Ungpakorn.
Chula cannot help but prove itself a contorted amaat ‘institution’ with little backbone or integrity again and again. It institutionally reflects the sorry state of affairs that engulfs Thai hi-so-ciety. Not that this symbolic display from the academics is totally meaningless, more that it’s camp and lame, considering everything else they’ve let slide. But… well done for them for drawing a line in the sand! Too bad the line they drew is in the tide.
Chart, I do not disagree that Bangkok bears a lot of responsibility. I only suggest that the people of Essarn and elsewhere in Thailand are part of the culture of corruption and it is not only Bangkok which needs to shape up.
“Greed will be Thailand’s epitaph.” Buddhadasa Bhikku
Sorry if I mistook you for that, but anyhow I think its a combination of the War of Roses, the black plaque, and the raise of the Copper Head that eventually lead to the Magna Carta.
Although I don’t believe that Abhisit listens or hears Thai people’s voices, let alone NM readers’, I’d like to see him resign from the PM post for his bloodiest operation. One thing that I’d give him credit for is his first and foremost offer (with another 4 elements) which says” All parties concerned must join forces to uphold the monarchy”-he has been doing it since day one he has become a PM.
1. Stop telling lies, respect freedom of speech and let Thai people decide which side they want to take.
2. Tell the military to stay away from politics.
3. Hold a new election. If your party loses, accept the result. Be a man.
4. Do not ever talk about rule of law if you do not really believe in it.
Dean Barrett: “So why then do some foreigners talk about corrupt Big Bad Bangkok ripping off those poor Essarn farmers?” If you are sincere in finding answers the data is available, but you will have to spend the time doing the research. But I get the impression you’ve made up your mind already. Following your logic, your “facts” (stories, anecdotes, accounts, tales, legends, urban myths) is similar to throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Most of the above proposals are very good but I would additionally suggest that someone like PM Ahbisit may find it difficult to empathise with the seemingly socially and economically excluded sections of Thai society but if he is genuinely interested in policies that are both pro-poor (are the poor really targeted by subsidized healthcare programs and what strata or stratum of the poor actually receive the most benefits) and pro-growth (not simply a measurement of GDP or PPP but how do the poorest individuals and their dependents benefit) he needs to encourage his technocrats in the Ministry of Finance (and their myriad of consultant advisers) to transparently assess policies to ascertain whether they meet both criteria. This is technically much less difficult than it would seem (and it’s not “rocket science”) but it requires the political will that many technocrats – and of course Thailand is not alone in this respect – lack in one form or another.
My suggestions:
1. Stop double standard justice
2. PAD must be brought for justice or RED must released/drop all charge against RED.
3. Eliminate less majesty
4. Investigate the King’s property of $US 36billion
5. Abhisit and his comrades must be held responsible for the death of last two month conflicts.
6. Allow all anti-govt media on air and online or PAD, the Nation, Bangkok Post,… must be off air, too.
7. Resolve the houses immediatey and helod ellection.
8. Justice for Seh Daeng and other red killed.
9. Those who call RED as Buffalo must be tried for defamation
10. Abhishit must stop talking sweet and twisted the truth first.
11. Investigate all corruption charge against other leaders, military leaders, police leaders and other politicians
12. All coup make/supporter must be tried by the crimes written in a constitution as terrorists, traitors, rebeller, rioters, criminal…
13. All those who charged by less majesty must be freed.
So if these can be done then let’s talk other social reforms like education, economy and so on.
Well, one thing he can do is rein in his wife! It’s clear enough which side she’s on. He could also tell the yellow shirts to stop speaking in his name if he doesn’t want people to believe they are.
Tarrin #91 – no, I wasn’t referring to the Magna Carta, although that is generally seen to have been the beginning of it (actually there are earlier documents limiting royal powers). British constitutional law has developed over many hundreds of years & is not recorded on a single document. It has come about through many processes, including acts of parliament, treaties and court rulings. Parliament may change it, unlike constitutions in most countries (e.g. I think the new coalition has just changed the length of their parliamentary term?) This makes it fairly flexible, a situation that can only work in a state with a good Head of State and independent judiciary, as well as freedom of speech, especially in media & academia. (” The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance…” – John Philpot Curran: Speech upon the Right of Election, 1790.) Quite an interesting topic. Let google be your friend.
Rebecca, your comments smack of the patronising falang that thinks she knows better than most Thais about their own complex political and social “structures”, whilst genuinely “caring” for them in their ignorance and naivety. How very generous of you. Yet you offer nothing but unsubstantiated and cliched gripes about injustice for the poor (which in any case does not explain or justify why Red Shirts were lobbing grenades into public places like Sala Daeng BTS or using women and children as human shields); snears about the black shirted snipers (suggesting the government is either collaborating with them or can’t rein them in); and further unsubstantiated, unargued claims that the offered election date in November somehow involved a rigging of military power, again also against the poor. You sound like a neo-socialist, Che-loving old hippy with a chip on her shoulder. The black shirts are an elite corp within the Red Shirt movement and were firing on innocent civilians, and I’ve heard this in Bangkok from numerous sources in the last week – from Thais and foreigners – who witnessed such shooting. The use of Red Shirt violence is not justified by the plight of the poor; although many may feel disenfranchised there are non-violent ways to improve one’s lot in Thailand and across the entire developing world. Violence and holding a government and city to ransom by sheer mob politics, not to mention the billions of bath lost by fellow Thais in Bangkok and elsewhere, including many economic migrants from the “poor” north, is not the way to campaign for “democracy.” The election date proposed does indeed fall just after a re-shuffle of generals and this would not mean disenfranchising the poor but it does mean Thaksin will be even more unlikely to recoup his lost billion-odd dollar losses recently confiscated. This is why he wanted to get back in by September. If you cannot see how Thaksin’s puppeteering has anything to do with this then you are simply wrong. Please don’t patronise the Thai people or pity them.
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Thai style democracy?
Tarrin c93
It’s been a while since I studied economic history, but I do still remember the basic chronology……
Magna Carta: original signed 1215 – various revisions through to 1297
Black Death: 1348-1350 (generally thought to have brought about the decline/collapse of feudalism – most serfs became labour for hire)
Wars of the Roses: 1455-1487
“Copperheads”? I only know these as the anti-civil war (American that is) Democrats
The rebellion of Thailand’s middle-income peasants
It’s a small detail, but I thought Thailand was a developing country, making it second world.
Thaksin supporters magazine
Les Abbey. Maybe the alternative spelling of his name foreshadows how he will end up.
Chula academics call for “return of justice and academic freedom”
They get on the stage at a rally and are put in a military jail. Kasit gets to be foreign minister. If anyone is having a double standards contest, this has got be be in the running.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
@Nick and the owners of this blog:
Has there been after Khun Chanchai wrote here any exhange of email addresses for Nick to follow up maybe with him to confirm his authenticity etc? Nick is fluent in Thai I understand, and would be maybe something to follow up here, if the entry by Khun Chanchai is for real and if is, then follow more about things with him? Maybe more interviews etc. with the occupants of that house and so worth.
Just an idea.
Send your suggestions to Abhisit
David Brown #16. Reforming the military is part of a longer term goal that I don’t think Abhisit will have time to work on during his remaining time in office. I think it is more constructive to look at it in economic rather than political terms. The defence budget consumes a disproporionately high percentage of the national budget, relative to developed countries, while the total tax take is too small relative to GDP. Meanwhile, what little tax is raised is eroded by corruption across the board. It is obvious that, in order to develop economically and as a society, Thailand will have to raise the overall tax take, reduce corruption and raise budgets for things like healthcare and education at the expense of defence. The military is overstaffed with officers because there is no filter to retire off the ones who are not suitable for general officership and promotion is on a seniority, connections and tea money basis, not meritocracy. A lot of taxpayers’ money is wasted on unnecessary or unsuitable equipment that generates commissions for generals and politicians. This needs to be eliminated to ensure that Thailand has a well equipped, modern defence force suited to its needs. Conscription should also probably be scrapped in favour of a smaller, professional army of better paid volunteers who are capable of using more sophisticated modern equipment.
The police are subject to much of the same criticism as the military but in addition their daily miscarriage of justice also impinges on the daily lives of ordinary people of all colour hues. Thus I think there may be a strong enough concensus to start work on that before the military, although both are going to be very challenging tasks.
On Bhumibolists and Royalists
[…] http://www.newmandala.org/2010/05/21/on-bhumibolists-and-royalists/ […]
Chula academics call for “return of justice and academic freedom”
… and yet they did nothing for Giles Ji Ungpakorn.
Chula cannot help but prove itself a contorted amaat ‘institution’ with little backbone or integrity again and again. It institutionally reflects the sorry state of affairs that engulfs Thai hi-so-ciety. Not that this symbolic display from the academics is totally meaningless, more that it’s camp and lame, considering everything else they’ve let slide. But… well done for them for drawing a line in the sand! Too bad the line they drew is in the tide.
Why aren’t more Thai social scientists doing this?
i have been follow his guy site for the past 2weeks. I just love the way this guy writes.
The rebellion of Thailand’s middle-income peasants
Chart, I do not disagree that Bangkok bears a lot of responsibility. I only suggest that the people of Essarn and elsewhere in Thailand are part of the culture of corruption and it is not only Bangkok which needs to shape up.
“Greed will be Thailand’s epitaph.” Buddhadasa Bhikku
Thai style democracy?
michael – 92
Sorry if I mistook you for that, but anyhow I think its a combination of the War of Roses, the black plaque, and the raise of the Copper Head that eventually lead to the Magna Carta.
Send your suggestions to Abhisit
Although I don’t believe that Abhisit listens or hears Thai people’s voices, let alone NM readers’, I’d like to see him resign from the PM post for his bloodiest operation. One thing that I’d give him credit for is his first and foremost offer (with another 4 elements) which says” All parties concerned must join forces to uphold the monarchy”-he has been doing it since day one he has become a PM.
Send your suggestions to Abhisit
1. Stop telling lies, respect freedom of speech and let Thai people decide which side they want to take.
2. Tell the military to stay away from politics.
3. Hold a new election. If your party loses, accept the result. Be a man.
4. Do not ever talk about rule of law if you do not really believe in it.
The rebellion of Thailand’s middle-income peasants
Dean Barrett: “So why then do some foreigners talk about corrupt Big Bad Bangkok ripping off those poor Essarn farmers?” If you are sincere in finding answers the data is available, but you will have to spend the time doing the research. But I get the impression you’ve made up your mind already. Following your logic, your “facts” (stories, anecdotes, accounts, tales, legends, urban myths) is similar to throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Send your suggestions to Abhisit
Most of the above proposals are very good but I would additionally suggest that someone like PM Ahbisit may find it difficult to empathise with the seemingly socially and economically excluded sections of Thai society but if he is genuinely interested in policies that are both pro-poor (are the poor really targeted by subsidized healthcare programs and what strata or stratum of the poor actually receive the most benefits) and pro-growth (not simply a measurement of GDP or PPP but how do the poorest individuals and their dependents benefit) he needs to encourage his technocrats in the Ministry of Finance (and their myriad of consultant advisers) to transparently assess policies to ascertain whether they meet both criteria. This is technically much less difficult than it would seem (and it’s not “rocket science”) but it requires the political will that many technocrats – and of course Thailand is not alone in this respect – lack in one form or another.
Send your suggestions to Abhisit
My suggestions:
1. Stop double standard justice
2. PAD must be brought for justice or RED must released/drop all charge against RED.
3. Eliminate less majesty
4. Investigate the King’s property of $US 36billion
5. Abhisit and his comrades must be held responsible for the death of last two month conflicts.
6. Allow all anti-govt media on air and online or PAD, the Nation, Bangkok Post,… must be off air, too.
7. Resolve the houses immediatey and helod ellection.
8. Justice for Seh Daeng and other red killed.
9. Those who call RED as Buffalo must be tried for defamation
10. Abhishit must stop talking sweet and twisted the truth first.
11. Investigate all corruption charge against other leaders, military leaders, police leaders and other politicians
12. All coup make/supporter must be tried by the crimes written in a constitution as terrorists, traitors, rebeller, rioters, criminal…
13. All those who charged by less majesty must be freed.
So if these can be done then let’s talk other social reforms like education, economy and so on.
The king and facebook
Well, one thing he can do is rein in his wife! It’s clear enough which side she’s on. He could also tell the yellow shirts to stop speaking in his name if he doesn’t want people to believe they are.
Thai style democracy?
Tarrin #91 – no, I wasn’t referring to the Magna Carta, although that is generally seen to have been the beginning of it (actually there are earlier documents limiting royal powers). British constitutional law has developed over many hundreds of years & is not recorded on a single document. It has come about through many processes, including acts of parliament, treaties and court rulings. Parliament may change it, unlike constitutions in most countries (e.g. I think the new coalition has just changed the length of their parliamentary term?) This makes it fairly flexible, a situation that can only work in a state with a good Head of State and independent judiciary, as well as freedom of speech, especially in media & academia. (” The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance…” – John Philpot Curran: Speech upon the Right of Election, 1790.) Quite an interesting topic. Let google be your friend.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Rebecca, your comments smack of the patronising falang that thinks she knows better than most Thais about their own complex political and social “structures”, whilst genuinely “caring” for them in their ignorance and naivety. How very generous of you. Yet you offer nothing but unsubstantiated and cliched gripes about injustice for the poor (which in any case does not explain or justify why Red Shirts were lobbing grenades into public places like Sala Daeng BTS or using women and children as human shields); snears about the black shirted snipers (suggesting the government is either collaborating with them or can’t rein them in); and further unsubstantiated, unargued claims that the offered election date in November somehow involved a rigging of military power, again also against the poor. You sound like a neo-socialist, Che-loving old hippy with a chip on her shoulder. The black shirts are an elite corp within the Red Shirt movement and were firing on innocent civilians, and I’ve heard this in Bangkok from numerous sources in the last week – from Thais and foreigners – who witnessed such shooting. The use of Red Shirt violence is not justified by the plight of the poor; although many may feel disenfranchised there are non-violent ways to improve one’s lot in Thailand and across the entire developing world. Violence and holding a government and city to ransom by sheer mob politics, not to mention the billions of bath lost by fellow Thais in Bangkok and elsewhere, including many economic migrants from the “poor” north, is not the way to campaign for “democracy.” The election date proposed does indeed fall just after a re-shuffle of generals and this would not mean disenfranchising the poor but it does mean Thaksin will be even more unlikely to recoup his lost billion-odd dollar losses recently confiscated. This is why he wanted to get back in by September. If you cannot see how Thaksin’s puppeteering has anything to do with this then you are simply wrong. Please don’t patronise the Thai people or pity them.
Send your suggestions to Abhisit
^ @Nuomi:
That was one of the best and most mature posts I have seen on this blog or any other, my own included.
Respect.