I just wonder if anyone knows more in details about the late Colonel Narongdet Nanthapotidet, the former Commander of the Royal Queen Tiger Force. He was also the Queen’s personal body guard. He was basically the person who built the “Tiger Force” for her, independent of her husband.
I ask because today (24th May 2010) Aphisit visits the late Colonel Narongdet’s half-brother Major Kraingsak Nantapotidet, Commander of the 2nd Infantry Division for the king.
1. Forgetting all colonisation contents learned from the UK.
2. Reviewing the р╕Чр╕ир╕Юр╕┤р╕Шр╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕Шр╕гр╕гр╕б р╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Хр╕Щр╣Ар╕нр╕Зр╣Гр╕Щр╕Рр╕▓р╕Щр╕░р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕Щр╕│
Re. “Ellul’s terms in his book “Propaganda – The Formation of Men’s Attitudes“; it’s available @ Kinokuniya book stores in Bangkok”.
You need to be specific about WHICH Kinokuniya stores – as obviously if it was only sold in their store at CentralWorld that is now a heap of charred rubble.
Very sad, as it was a great bookshop.
(1) Code of conduct for political rallies to be agreed including prearrangement (so security can be arranged), time limit (say 4 hr), no weapons of any kind on site and no obstruction to public. PAD leaders to publicly commit to this or face prosecution for 2008 events. UDD leaders who commit to these rules and not involved in the recent violence to be given amnesty. Efforts made to bring moderate UDD elements into the political process while isolating militants.
(2) Abolish censorship except for incitement to violence which should be illegal.
(3) Abolish LM and free all LM prisoners.
(4) Make serious efforts to reduce wealth gap etc including permitting labor unions to represent and give a voice to working-class people.
Sattahibo #21 – that’s a good letter you’ve cited.
I’d just add that I’ve come across Scandinavian academic research which indicates Thaksin’s famed helping hand to the poor may not have been such a big help as claimed.
Will post back to NM on this.
Arild Lilleby
This is not about Thaksin and the puppet master, I’m amazed that the Thai comments show no awareness or any insight into their own social and political structure.
It’s so easy to put some trained military snipers in black or red shirts and let them play the role of the bad guys. But it’s also easy to find a scapegoat that is shopping in Paris – just use all there is, to not have to face the fact that there is a a much larger Thai population group whose lunch are no Sushi at Fuji, Secret Recipe cakes, Starbucks coffee and that they are discriminated to a degree that it’s simply shocking.
To actually be able to see that there is extreme injustice, double standards and hypocrisy you first should realize that the hierarchical social structure, educational system and cultural background grants the leaders the right to abuse and fill their own pockets, since democracy was introduced to Thailand.
Election is not rightful when the law must be manipulated first to get the winning party out of the way. So not to anybody’s standards that has a background in political science or a clear thinking mind, the current situation does match the rules handled to declare the government which is ruling in Thailand at the moment as a by the people elected government. It was pushed down the people’s throat. So plainly said: “Here goes your democracy into the bin turning out to be nothing but a show”.
Surprisingly nobody seems to care or even know much about this fact – funny enough the rural (uneducated) people were prepared to pin-point this to the (educated) Bangkok people, in the end they paid with their lives – taken by the mysterious snipers that were filmed by journalists, and caught on the memory cards of cameras but still are not identified to a satisfying degree by those that are responsible for the security of their citizens.
A government that practices censorship, bans blogs, closes down TV stations and has the complete media that is then available to the population in its own pocket – should make you suspicious as info is tailor made to present them best.
An extreme example:
Hitler in Germany had the complete court under his say – even the church was under his thumb. Which is bizarre if you consider the criminal acts this man has committed – being responsible for the death of millions of people, supported fanatically by brain-washed citizens that really and actually believed they were more special, better and superior to the rest of mankind.
It’s so easy to brainwash people just indoctrinate them with the concept of an enemy and make them feel better (we the peaceful, educated and good deserve to be privileged ), they actually dance then to any tune. This concept has worked then, still works today – all over this globe. Dividing countries, cities and even neighborhoods.
So far nothing is real – as reality is relative and differs from person to person and depends very much on which side you stand or what you believe in.
Fact is that the election were offered – but also here the rural knew the situation better then the Bangkok citizen. Utterly unaware that the offered date also included that Thailand would have been again under the influence and say of some military, that would in fact have had then too much power.
In democracy military has no say in political matters – we all know that this is different in Thailand. If you do not know this – there is massive info available online.
As long as nobody takes responsibility and improves in Thailand that equal rights are established, good education is available for ALL people, corruption is eliminated and discrimination stops that is daily practice from a minority against the majority of Thai citizens, the possibility of an uprising persists.
Today the Bangkok Post provides its answer to the question:
What next for the Thai parliamentary system?
That is the budget debate tomorrow followed by a censure motion from the opposition who say convention has it that it be done the other way round.
A budget to hand out 50 billion baht to govenment friendly business folk hurt by its mishandling of the Red protest, goodies for the military etc, then a debate about the very legitimacy of the government.
Can the opposition not frustrate this by withdrawing its members from the chamber and aborting the session due to the lack of a quorum?
Aphisit is now afraid that he would be killed by opposing snipers.
The Government House’s security staffs are worrying for Aphisit’s safety. Aphisit can no longer roam around either in Bangkok or up country provinces.
I agree with David Brown, the Thai military is the ultimate source of all problems in Thailand. The military controls the media, much business, the monarchy, and the government though explicit or implicit threat. And the army clearly foments unrest in the south to justify its massive budget.
Although both Thaksin and the current government have been accused of human rights abuses, in almost all cases it was actually the unaccountable military that abused rights (through terror, torture and murder); a military too powerful to be challenged or brought to heel by civil society, the media, or the sitting government.
Thailand has no credible external enemies, so no need for a military establishment. Abolition of the military would be the single most effective reform possible. How about it Mr. A?
Benja, this is going round in circles. It’s getting to be another example of stangtrepism. Before I leave what has become a tedious squabble, let me point out the following: The term ‘constitutional’ is unnecessary when talking about republics – all republics are only that because they are legally constituted as such; the ‘inalienable rights ‘ you mention do not have to be in the constitution of a republic (it’s up to the writers), as with other forms of democratic government. In some constitutions they’re not included, but have come up in other ways, in others they don’t exist; certain ‘inalienable rights’ are now being eroded in US, despite being mentioned in the constitution, due, the govt says, to terrorism; your statements re. ‘mob rule’ do not apply to any state that has a constitution, except in times of civil war, etc., & that could just as well happen in a republic as a constitutional monarchy, & no vote would be a part of it. UK does not have a written document called a constitution, although it does function according to British constitutional law – but you’ll have to read about that elsewhere. I haven’t got time.
Thinking of Chalerm as prime minister, one does not need any horror movies! However, thinking of an alternative from the current coalition government does not provide for any “sweat dreams”! The question is, how come that it seems as if only the two equally irrational camps can be choosen from. What went wrong and made politics in Thailand void of sanity and reason?
Nigel, over 200 from the TRT/PPP/PT was disqualified. You might want to go waayy back to before the coup to find what you’re asking for.
Back then Thaksin’s side has much better personals, both in quantity & quality. It’s the Judicial coup that has proven the most devastating to their camp.
IMO, the Democrats has a much lower quality to their side, if it took ‘Team 3’ of TRTs for them to be anywhere better. You ought to see why people voted for TRR’s ‘Team 1’.
Thaksin didn’t just assembled power, his players on the team were almost ‘dream team’ quality. That if you look at 30 yrs back, it’ll be hard to match, if at all. It’s easy to see why the Dems feared for their future back then.
Mungo Gubbins #15
40% of the population is more than likely to be a majority of those with the right to vote. 40% isn’t a majority if only Toddlers & Children are voters.
Since this is a developing country, the birth rate makes the percentage of eligible voters smaller.
The UNDP report is well worth a read. It will dispel any doubts that the country faces enormous challenges now and in the next decade.
What struck me most was the confirmation I have from it that Thailand is a patchwork of places, sewn together by the now sadly rather thin thread of the Chakri dynasty. It has been a tremendous achievement to keep the Kingdom together and hopefully the King’s successors can continue his good work – but maybe not. South East Asia as a whole has changed so much and other neighboring countries can now lay claim with more justification than before to be carrying forward ethnic and religious identities that also exist in Thailand.
These may perhaps even threatening the umbrella constitutional monarchy. The Lao/Thai Issan look over their shoulders and are beginning to see Laos now as a stable and developing place where their culture and language is honored and preserved. The Southerners look south to Malaysia for their politics, their religion if not yet their economic support. There is also growing regionalism elsewhere, in the North and even Central Thailand, not to mention the non-Thai citizens that crowd the border with Burma.
Some of this is welcome and adds to the economic dynamism and healthy diversity of a new Thailand. But the Center cannot hold to old ways of ignoring the needs of the back country. It has to adjust and address right now the issues so well presented in this UNDP report. PM Abhsit wants input. Just open this`document!
Having talked to a Thai friend of mine, who had talked to other middle class residents of BKK, I’d like to reflect some points on the question :What next for the families of those who have been killed and injured in recent political violence? It is absolutely tragic that many BKK residents believe and support the government totally, without questioning or care about loss of civilian life but the queen’s guard that was killed on the 10th April had become a hero!!
It is dangerous indeed to see that some(?) or many(?) people believe whatever “presented”by Thai mainstreem media as facts , as you can see some Thai wrote a letter to CNN considering it “biased and unreliable” pl. see: http://uk.asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-pundit-blog/is-cnn-s-coverage-really-biased
My point is what people believe has become equivalennt to truth? No information about dead civilian on Thai TV but the achievement of the government has been praised all along. Where is their conscience ? Have the red -shirts really become red germs according to some or many BKK residents? On the contrary, the yellow-shirts had committed crimes back then, either seizures of BKK airport or the government house, they are still at large; unfortunately, one of them has become a Minster of Foreign Affairs. This game is undoubtedly dirty . Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely!
Before sending some suggestion to Abhisit, read the following letter to the Financial Times (London)
Beware of applying western criteria to Thai politics
Published: May 24 2010 03:00 | Last updated: May 24 2010 03:00
From Mr Derek Tonkin.
Sir, David Pilling rightly highlights the complexities of Thai politics (“Thailand’s crisis goes beyond red and yellow”, May 20), but I would be cautious about arguing that Thaksin Shinawatra has given poorer Thais from the north and north-east “political empowerment”. True, he showered gifts on them in the shape of free healthcare and cheap credits, but much of the latter was spent unwisely and many have landed up in even greater debt.
Mr Thaksin’s “Thai Rak Thai” (Thais love Thais) party was a coalescence of at least a dozen factions of the old school representing substantial business factions drawn from a range of other political parties. As such, the party simply continued the tradition of promoting the interests, not of the people who elected them, but of their organisers. Apart from the freebies given to the people, there was little evidence of any subsequent programme of serious social and political reform. On the other hand, the present prime minister, Abhisit Vejjajiva, has stabilised the rural credit system, increasing the budget threefold, extended healthcare to 99 per cent of the population and introduced a Baht 500 ($15) survival allowance for elderly people in need.
Mr Pilling also argues that the government of Mr Abhisit “has yet to win a popular mandate”. Thailand has only ever had coalition governments since parliamentary government began in 1932, apart from Mr Thaksin’s “coalition” party, which was the first in Thai history to secure an overall majority, with 374 out of 500 seats in the 2005 elections. In the December 2007 elections the Democrat party, the only political party to have international affiliations, secured 30.3 per cent of the constituency and 39.3 per cent of the proportional vote, giving them 165 of the 480 seats in parliament. This put them second in line to the formerly fringe People’s Power party (PPP), but now swelled with former Thai Rak Thai members, who won 36.63 per cent of the constituency and 39.6 per cent of the proportional vote, giving them 233 seats, not quite a majority but the party best placed to form a coalition.
The impeachment of the PPP on a range of electoral fraud and other charges and its dissolution by the Constitutional Court on December 2 2008 left the Democrat party as the largest party in power. The horse trading which followed, including the defection of certain PPP factions to the Democrat party, assured Mr Abhisit a majority in parliament. There may well have been pressures from the Thai military on these factions to defect from the pro-Thaksin alliance that would appal western constitutionalists. But politics is a rough business in most countries in south-east Asia. At least those in the Thai parliament today are all elected MPs and none of them was in any way responsible for the coup against Mr Thaksin in 2006. We should be cautious about applying western moral criteria to Thai politics too readily.
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London discussion of Thailand’s political turmoil
I just wonder if anyone knows more in details about the late Colonel Narongdet Nanthapotidet, the former Commander of the Royal Queen Tiger Force. He was also the Queen’s personal body guard. He was basically the person who built the “Tiger Force” for her, independent of her husband.
I ask because today (24th May 2010) Aphisit visits the late Colonel Narongdet’s half-brother Major Kraingsak Nantapotidet, Commander of the 2nd Infantry Division for the king.
р╣Ар╕зр╕ер╕▓ 16.00 р╕Щ. р╕Щр╕▓р╕вр╕нр╕ар╕┤р╕кр╕┤р╕Чр╕Шр╕┤р╣М р╣Ар╕Фр╕┤р╕Щр╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╕бр╕▓р╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Вр╕гр╕Зр╕Юр╕вр╕▓р╕Ър╕▓р╕ер╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕бр╕Зр╕Бр╕╕р╕П р╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╣Ар╕вр╕╡р╣Ир╕вр╕бр╕Чр╕лр╕▓р╕гр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕Ър╕▓р╕Фр╣Ар╕Ир╣Зр╕Ър╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Ыр╕Пр╕┤р╕Ър╕▒р╕Хр╕┤р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Вр╕нр╕Др╕╖р╕Щр╕Юр╕╖р╣Йр╕Щр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Ър╕гр╕┤р╣Ар╕зр╕Ур╕кр╕╡р╣Ир╣Бр╕вр╕Б р╕Др╕нр╕Бр╕зр╕▒р╕з р╕Др╕╖р╕нр╕Юр╕е.р╕Х.р╕зр╕ер╕┤р╕Х р╣Вр╕гр╕Ир╕Щр╕ар╕▒р╕Бр╕Фр╕╡ р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Нр╕Кр╕▓р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Бр╕нр╕Зр╕Юр╕ер╕Чр╕лр╕▓р╕гр╕гр╕▓р╕Ър╕Чр╕╡р╣И 2 р╕гр╕▒р╕Бр╕йр╕▓р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕нр╕Зр╕Др╣М р╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕Ю.р╕Ч.р╣Ар╕Бр╕гр╕╡р╕вр╕Зр╕ир╕▒р╕Бр╕Фр╕┤р╣М р╕Щр╕▒р╕Щр╕Чр╣Вр╕Юр╕Шр╕┤р╣Мр╣Ар╕Фр╕К р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕Ър╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕▒р╕Ър╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Чр╕лр╕▓р╕гр╕гр╕▓р╕Ър╕Чр╕╡р╣И 2 р╕Бр╕гр╕бр╕Чр╕лр╕▓р╕гр╕гр╕▓р╕Ър╕Чр╕╡р╣И 21 р╕гр╕▒р╕Бр╕йр╕▓р╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕нр╕Зр╕Др╣М
Send your suggestions to Abhisit
1. Stop killing you own people for self preservation
2. Be accountable for the deaths so far
3. Call elections immediately
4. Ensure the Privy Council does not interfere with country politics
Send your suggestions to Abhisit
1. Forgetting all colonisation contents learned from the UK.
2. Reviewing the р╕Чр╕ир╕Юр╕┤р╕Шр╕гр╕▓р╕Кр╕Шр╕гр╕гр╕б р╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Хр╕Щр╣Ар╕нр╕Зр╣Гр╕Щр╕Рр╕▓р╕Щр╕░р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╕Щр╕│
What next for Thailand?
Media War #63 :
Re. “Ellul’s terms in his book “Propaganda – The Formation of Men’s Attitudes“; it’s available @ Kinokuniya book stores in Bangkok”.
You need to be specific about WHICH Kinokuniya stores – as obviously if it was only sold in their store at CentralWorld that is now a heap of charred rubble.
Very sad, as it was a great bookshop.
Send your suggestions to Abhisit
(1) Code of conduct for political rallies to be agreed including prearrangement (so security can be arranged), time limit (say 4 hr), no weapons of any kind on site and no obstruction to public. PAD leaders to publicly commit to this or face prosecution for 2008 events. UDD leaders who commit to these rules and not involved in the recent violence to be given amnesty. Efforts made to bring moderate UDD elements into the political process while isolating militants.
(2) Abolish censorship except for incitement to violence which should be illegal.
(3) Abolish LM and free all LM prisoners.
(4) Make serious efforts to reduce wealth gap etc including permitting labor unions to represent and give a voice to working-class people.
Send your suggestions to Abhisit
Sattahibo #21 – that’s a good letter you’ve cited.
I’d just add that I’ve come across Scandinavian academic research which indicates Thaksin’s famed helping hand to the poor may not have been such a big help as claimed.
Will post back to NM on this.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Arild Lilleby
This is not about Thaksin and the puppet master, I’m amazed that the Thai comments show no awareness or any insight into their own social and political structure.
It’s so easy to put some trained military snipers in black or red shirts and let them play the role of the bad guys. But it’s also easy to find a scapegoat that is shopping in Paris – just use all there is, to not have to face the fact that there is a a much larger Thai population group whose lunch are no Sushi at Fuji, Secret Recipe cakes, Starbucks coffee and that they are discriminated to a degree that it’s simply shocking.
To actually be able to see that there is extreme injustice, double standards and hypocrisy you first should realize that the hierarchical social structure, educational system and cultural background grants the leaders the right to abuse and fill their own pockets, since democracy was introduced to Thailand.
Election is not rightful when the law must be manipulated first to get the winning party out of the way. So not to anybody’s standards that has a background in political science or a clear thinking mind, the current situation does match the rules handled to declare the government which is ruling in Thailand at the moment as a by the people elected government. It was pushed down the people’s throat. So plainly said: “Here goes your democracy into the bin turning out to be nothing but a show”.
Surprisingly nobody seems to care or even know much about this fact – funny enough the rural (uneducated) people were prepared to pin-point this to the (educated) Bangkok people, in the end they paid with their lives – taken by the mysterious snipers that were filmed by journalists, and caught on the memory cards of cameras but still are not identified to a satisfying degree by those that are responsible for the security of their citizens.
A government that practices censorship, bans blogs, closes down TV stations and has the complete media that is then available to the population in its own pocket – should make you suspicious as info is tailor made to present them best.
An extreme example:
Hitler in Germany had the complete court under his say – even the church was under his thumb. Which is bizarre if you consider the criminal acts this man has committed – being responsible for the death of millions of people, supported fanatically by brain-washed citizens that really and actually believed they were more special, better and superior to the rest of mankind.
It’s so easy to brainwash people just indoctrinate them with the concept of an enemy and make them feel better (we the peaceful, educated and good deserve to be privileged ), they actually dance then to any tune. This concept has worked then, still works today – all over this globe. Dividing countries, cities and even neighborhoods.
So far nothing is real – as reality is relative and differs from person to person and depends very much on which side you stand or what you believe in.
Fact is that the election were offered – but also here the rural knew the situation better then the Bangkok citizen. Utterly unaware that the offered date also included that Thailand would have been again under the influence and say of some military, that would in fact have had then too much power.
In democracy military has no say in political matters – we all know that this is different in Thailand. If you do not know this – there is massive info available online.
As long as nobody takes responsibility and improves in Thailand that equal rights are established, good education is available for ALL people, corruption is eliminated and discrimination stops that is daily practice from a minority against the majority of Thai citizens, the possibility of an uprising persists.
What next for Thailand?
Today the Bangkok Post provides its answer to the question:
What next for the Thai parliamentary system?
That is the budget debate tomorrow followed by a censure motion from the opposition who say convention has it that it be done the other way round.
A budget to hand out 50 billion baht to govenment friendly business folk hurt by its mishandling of the Red protest, goodies for the military etc, then a debate about the very legitimacy of the government.
Can the opposition not frustrate this by withdrawing its members from the chamber and aborting the session due to the lack of a quorum?
Send your suggestions to Abhisit
Aphisit is now afraid that he would be killed by opposing snipers.
The Government House’s security staffs are worrying for Aphisit’s safety. Aphisit can no longer roam around either in Bangkok or up country provinces.
р╣Ар╕зр╕ер╕▓ 13.00 р╕Щ. р╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Чр╕│р╣Ар╕Щр╕╡р╕вр╕Ър╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕Ър╕▓р╕е р╕Бр╣Ир╕нр╕Щр╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Щр╕▓р╕вр╕нр╕ар╕┤р╕кр╕┤р╕Чр╕Шр╕┤р╣М р╣Ар╕зр╕Кр╕Кр╕▓р╕Кр╕╡р╕зр╕░ р╕Щр╕▓р╕вр╕Бр╕гр╕▒р╕Рр╕бр╕Щр╕Хр╕гр╕╡ р╕Ир╕░р╣Ар╕Фр╕┤р╕Щр╕ер╕Зр╕бр╕▓р╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Хр╕╢р╕Бр╣Др╕Чр╕вр╕Др╕╣р╣Ир╕Яр╣Йр╕▓ р╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╣Ар╕Вр╣Йр╕▓р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Кр╕╕р╕бр╕Др╕Ур╕░р╕Бр╕гр╕гр╕бр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕вр╕╡р╕вр╕зр╕вр╕▓р╕Ьр╕╣р╣Йр╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕гр╕▒р╕Ър╕Ьр╕ер╕Бр╕гр╕░р╕Чр╕Ър╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╣Ар╕лр╕Хр╕╕р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Ур╣Мр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Кр╕╕р╕бр╕Щр╕╕р╕бр╕Чр╕▓р╕З р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕бр╕╖р╕нр╕З р╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕Хр╕╢р╕Бр╕Ър╕▒р╕Нр╕Кр╕▓р╕Бр╕▓р╕г р╣Ар╕Ир╣Йр╕▓р╕лр╕Щр╣Йр╕▓р╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕гр╕▒р╕Бр╕йр╕▓р╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Ыр╕ер╕нр╕Фр╕ар╕▒р╕вр╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Ир╕│р╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕лр╕Щр╣Йр╕▓р╕Хр╕╢р╕Бр╕Щр╕▓р╕гр╕╡р╕кр╣Вр╕бр╕кр╕г р╣Гр╕Кр╣Йр╕Бр╕ер╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕кр╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╕Чр╕▓р╕Зр╣Др╕Бр╕е р╕кр╣Ир╕нр╕Зр╣Др╕Ыр╕вр╕▒р╕Зр╕Хр╕╢р╕Бр╕кр╕╣р╣Ир╕гр╕нр╕Ър╣Ж р╕Чр╕│р╣Ар╕Щр╕╡р╕вр╕Ър╕п р╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Хр╕гр╕зр╕Ир╕кр╕нр╕Ър╕Др╕зр╕▓р╕бр╕Ьр╕┤р╕Фр╕Ыр╕Бр╕Хр╕┤ р╕нр╕▓р╕Чр╕┤ р╕нр╕▓р╕Др╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕гр╕╡р╕вр╕Щр╕Юр╕▓р╕Ур╕┤р╕Кр╕вр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕Щр╕Др╕г р╕Хр╕╢р╕Бр╕кр╕│р╕Щр╕▒р╕Бр╕Зр╕▓р╕Щр╕Шр╕Щр╕▓р╕Др╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕Юр╕╖р╣Ир╕нр╕Бр╕▓р╕гр╣Ар╕Бр╕йр╕Хр╕гр╣Бр╕ер╕░р╕кр╕лр╕Бр╕гр╕Ур╣М р╣Ар╕Ыр╣Зр╕Щр╕Хр╣Йр╕Щ
Thai style democracy?
I think michael was referring to the Magna Carta.
Thai style democracy?
“Democracy is the road to socialism.” Karl Marx
Send your suggestions to Abhisit
I agree with David Brown, the Thai military is the ultimate source of all problems in Thailand. The military controls the media, much business, the monarchy, and the government though explicit or implicit threat. And the army clearly foments unrest in the south to justify its massive budget.
Although both Thaksin and the current government have been accused of human rights abuses, in almost all cases it was actually the unaccountable military that abused rights (through terror, torture and murder); a military too powerful to be challenged or brought to heel by civil society, the media, or the sitting government.
Thailand has no credible external enemies, so no need for a military establishment. Abolition of the military would be the single most effective reform possible. How about it Mr. A?
Thai style democracy?
Benja, this is going round in circles. It’s getting to be another example of stangtrepism. Before I leave what has become a tedious squabble, let me point out the following: The term ‘constitutional’ is unnecessary when talking about republics – all republics are only that because they are legally constituted as such; the ‘inalienable rights ‘ you mention do not have to be in the constitution of a republic (it’s up to the writers), as with other forms of democratic government. In some constitutions they’re not included, but have come up in other ways, in others they don’t exist; certain ‘inalienable rights’ are now being eroded in US, despite being mentioned in the constitution, due, the govt says, to terrorism; your statements re. ‘mob rule’ do not apply to any state that has a constitution, except in times of civil war, etc., & that could just as well happen in a republic as a constitutional monarchy, & no vote would be a part of it. UK does not have a written document called a constitution, although it does function according to British constitutional law – but you’ll have to read about that elsewhere. I haven’t got time.
The challenge for Mr Abhisit…
Thinking of Chalerm as prime minister, one does not need any horror movies! However, thinking of an alternative from the current coalition government does not provide for any “sweat dreams”! The question is, how come that it seems as if only the two equally irrational camps can be choosen from. What went wrong and made politics in Thailand void of sanity and reason?
The challenge for Mr Abhisit…
Nigel, over 200 from the TRT/PPP/PT was disqualified. You might want to go waayy back to before the coup to find what you’re asking for.
Back then Thaksin’s side has much better personals, both in quantity & quality. It’s the Judicial coup that has proven the most devastating to their camp.
IMO, the Democrats has a much lower quality to their side, if it took ‘Team 3’ of TRTs for them to be anywhere better. You ought to see why people voted for TRR’s ‘Team 1’.
Thaksin didn’t just assembled power, his players on the team were almost ‘dream team’ quality. That if you look at 30 yrs back, it’ll be hard to match, if at all. It’s easy to see why the Dems feared for their future back then.
Send your suggestions to Abhisit
if only Toddlers & Children are voters as well. <– serious typo.
Please continue.
Send your suggestions to Abhisit
Mungo Gubbins #15
40% of the population is more than likely to be a majority of those with the right to vote. 40% isn’t a majority if only Toddlers & Children are voters.
Since this is a developing country, the birth rate makes the percentage of eligible voters smaller.
UNDP releases Thailand’s 2009 Human Development Report
The UNDP report is well worth a read. It will dispel any doubts that the country faces enormous challenges now and in the next decade.
What struck me most was the confirmation I have from it that Thailand is a patchwork of places, sewn together by the now sadly rather thin thread of the Chakri dynasty. It has been a tremendous achievement to keep the Kingdom together and hopefully the King’s successors can continue his good work – but maybe not. South East Asia as a whole has changed so much and other neighboring countries can now lay claim with more justification than before to be carrying forward ethnic and religious identities that also exist in Thailand.
These may perhaps even threatening the umbrella constitutional monarchy. The Lao/Thai Issan look over their shoulders and are beginning to see Laos now as a stable and developing place where their culture and language is honored and preserved. The Southerners look south to Malaysia for their politics, their religion if not yet their economic support. There is also growing regionalism elsewhere, in the North and even Central Thailand, not to mention the non-Thai citizens that crowd the border with Burma.
Some of this is welcome and adds to the economic dynamism and healthy diversity of a new Thailand. But the Center cannot hold to old ways of ignoring the needs of the back country. It has to adjust and address right now the issues so well presented in this UNDP report. PM Abhsit wants input. Just open this`document!
What next for Thailand?
Having talked to a Thai friend of mine, who had talked to other middle class residents of BKK, I’d like to reflect some points on the question :What next for the families of those who have been killed and injured in recent political violence? It is absolutely tragic that many BKK residents believe and support the government totally, without questioning or care about loss of civilian life but the queen’s guard that was killed on the 10th April had become a hero!!
It is dangerous indeed to see that some(?) or many(?) people believe whatever “presented”by Thai mainstreem media as facts , as you can see some Thai wrote a letter to CNN considering it “biased and unreliable” pl. see:
http://uk.asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-pundit-blog/is-cnn-s-coverage-really-biased
My point is what people believe has become equivalennt to truth? No information about dead civilian on Thai TV but the achievement of the government has been praised all along. Where is their conscience ? Have the red -shirts really become red germs according to some or many BKK residents? On the contrary, the yellow-shirts had committed crimes back then, either seizures of BKK airport or the government house, they are still at large; unfortunately, one of them has become a Minster of Foreign Affairs. This game is undoubtedly dirty . Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely!
Send your suggestions to Abhisit
Before sending some suggestion to Abhisit, read the following letter to the Financial Times (London)
Beware of applying western criteria to Thai politics
Published: May 24 2010 03:00 | Last updated: May 24 2010 03:00
From Mr Derek Tonkin.
Sir, David Pilling rightly highlights the complexities of Thai politics (“Thailand’s crisis goes beyond red and yellow”, May 20), but I would be cautious about arguing that Thaksin Shinawatra has given poorer Thais from the north and north-east “political empowerment”. True, he showered gifts on them in the shape of free healthcare and cheap credits, but much of the latter was spent unwisely and many have landed up in even greater debt.
Mr Thaksin’s “Thai Rak Thai” (Thais love Thais) party was a coalescence of at least a dozen factions of the old school representing substantial business factions drawn from a range of other political parties. As such, the party simply continued the tradition of promoting the interests, not of the people who elected them, but of their organisers. Apart from the freebies given to the people, there was little evidence of any subsequent programme of serious social and political reform. On the other hand, the present prime minister, Abhisit Vejjajiva, has stabilised the rural credit system, increasing the budget threefold, extended healthcare to 99 per cent of the population and introduced a Baht 500 ($15) survival allowance for elderly people in need.
Mr Pilling also argues that the government of Mr Abhisit “has yet to win a popular mandate”. Thailand has only ever had coalition governments since parliamentary government began in 1932, apart from Mr Thaksin’s “coalition” party, which was the first in Thai history to secure an overall majority, with 374 out of 500 seats in the 2005 elections. In the December 2007 elections the Democrat party, the only political party to have international affiliations, secured 30.3 per cent of the constituency and 39.3 per cent of the proportional vote, giving them 165 of the 480 seats in parliament. This put them second in line to the formerly fringe People’s Power party (PPP), but now swelled with former Thai Rak Thai members, who won 36.63 per cent of the constituency and 39.6 per cent of the proportional vote, giving them 233 seats, not quite a majority but the party best placed to form a coalition.
The impeachment of the PPP on a range of electoral fraud and other charges and its dissolution by the Constitutional Court on December 2 2008 left the Democrat party as the largest party in power. The horse trading which followed, including the defection of certain PPP factions to the Democrat party, assured Mr Abhisit a majority in parliament. There may well have been pressures from the Thai military on these factions to defect from the pro-Thaksin alliance that would appal western constitutionalists. But politics is a rough business in most countries in south-east Asia. At least those in the Thai parliament today are all elected MPs and none of them was in any way responsible for the coup against Mr Thaksin in 2006. We should be cautious about applying western moral criteria to Thai politics too readily.
Derek Tonkin,
Guildford, Surrey, UK
(British Ambassador to Thailand 1986-89)