Thanks for your reply. You make some good points, particularly that the western system tends to be administered in a velvet glove.
When I mentioned our health care system I was primarily thinking about the Canadian one. Our once good system has been systematically degraded in the last decade to the point where its almost useless. In fact, I have given up trying to access health care in Canada and now go to Thailand for all my medical needs. Its cheaper, better, and you don’t have to wait for hours in waiting rooms. Also Thailand has not been bought and sold by the world drug companies so medicine there is actually affordable.
I don’t know what the situation is in the United States but I am aware that the FDA there is partially funded by pharmaceutical companies, in what may be the finest example of corruption that I can think of. How do you feel about the drug company’s’ monopoly in North America and being forced to pay the world’s highest prices for medicine?
—
Biopharm bulletin describing the 340 million dollars the industry pays the FDA annually – one fifth of the FDA budget.
Smith Jones #4 :
Speculation among some journalists at the FCCT awhile ago was that the real reason Harry Nicholaides was imprisoned on an arrest warrant which was two years old, was to intimidate people like Thitinan Pongsudhirak.
It does n’t seemed to have worked.
He still writes some of the best – if not the best – analysis, which is fearlessly accurate and balanced.
This fine article is of his usual extremely high standard.
Benja S S #80: Your “the founders of the perceived leading democracy on this planet” seems to indicate U.S.A., which is actually a ‘constitutional republic’, as you put it. Many of those quoted on your list are British. Bit of a fizzer, eh?
Really, distinguishing between a republic & a democracy these days is a bit like hair-splitting. It’s been said (first by Madison) that US is a republic because it is a ‘representative’, rather than ‘direct’, democracy, but today so are many countries that are actually constitutional monarchies, & therefore not republics. Today it would be impossible to have a direct democracy – citizens would rebel if they had to vote on every issue.
George Jetson #67 (sorry this is so late – didn’t see it until tonight): the “exact phrase” from Elroy is not “this would not happen in a modern, non-draconian society.” He says “shouldn’t”, not “would not”. Is this hair-splitting? No, I don’t believe so. The meaning is different.
Also – you said, “objective analysis,”not me. I said, “objective scrutiny.” No I don’t have any made-up statistics. Do you? Better go back to your “reading comprehension course”!
In 1999, during the demonstrations in favour of Anwar against Mahathir, chinese journals drew a parallel between these and the race riots in 69. On the tile pages they had a pictute from the recent demonstrations side by side with pictures from 69. When I asked why what the reason for this was, the answer was quite simple. Whenever the Malaqy start to quarrel among themselves, sooner or later the Chinese (and Indians!) will suffer.
In 1969 a kind of basic socio-political consensus was established in Malaysia that firstly, the Malay will have special rights, and in turn the Chinese will be protected (to some degree). Secondly, that UMNO with the Barisan Nasional will guarantee this consensus. Tgis implies that UMNO will keep the Malay under control, so that the Chinese will nont be challenged. Since some years, UMNO faces the problem that it is less able to control the Malay and speak for them, and thereby might not be able to gurantee the consensus. I guess that UMNO currently faces the big problem to be more Malay and more Islamist then all competitors, to maintain its position as representatives of the Malay, but that this alienates the Chinese and Indians, so that Barisan Nasional can not claim to represent the nation.
In this framework the 1969 riots still are a rather sensible matter, just as the time from 2008 and 2010 will be for Thailand, or 1967 is for Indonesia.
MangoBoy :
Suzie Wong wrote – “It is a public knowledge that the owner of Dusit Thani Hotel, Lady Chanat Piyaoui, is one of the Queen’s close confidant.” Do you deny this ?
This website is a very interesting site to reed when you see all the different coments that people have aboat the situation in Bangkok and Thailand! Its not easy to tell who is the “bad people” or “good people” when you see all the videos or photos that have been shown on the net or in the tv-news lately…can anybody tell me who shot the first shot? Could this happen in the USA…or in Russia..or in any other country? What would the goverment do if you had a similar situation in China or Burma? I know there is a lots of foreigners living in Thailand and i would like to know if they want Mr.Thaksin back to rule in this country? Have anybody noticed that his is convickted by the highest court in Thailand..does it mean anything to you..or? Can anybody tell me who you can you trust in Thailand…”redshirts,yellow,black or pink”? What about the police and the army? Anyway killings or murder is a crime wherever it happens and it should never have been taken to this level in Thailand..but im afraid that this is just the begining of a new violant period in the land of the smile!
I’ve 1 stupid question. If you have some special power which can be stopped this crisis. Did you use it or not? for me, I use it for sure.
Even red-shirt is so called torrorist by government but can you please clarify what/who is red-shirt?
Government is reported that many innocents was killed by red-shirt. Are innocents red-shirt or not?
When uncensored speech is only for those that agree with the government, speech becomes an adjunct of the government. Censorship is the nationalization of thought. There was a time with the right amount of repression that this could work. Not any more.
There are many people who hold views that most of us would choose to ignore. We don’t read them. We don’t listen to them. That is private censorship.
Governments, though, because they represent a diverse, constantly changing group of people must ensure that these people can talk to each other and to the government without filters.
That doesn’t mean other people are require to listen to nonsense rants or take crude, silly arguments to heart.
What it means is the most foolish person has the same right as the most erudite to make his or her views known.
Only the most insecure government censor their population and cut of their international conversations. A mature, democratic government keeps the channels of communication open; because in a democracy the people are ones who are allowed to filter out the noise, not the government.
R.N.England could not be more wrong when he commented “The only direct stuff from Thaksin that I have seen lately has been conciliatory.”
Thaksin S. is vindictive and determined to give the city of Bangkok hell.
The mastermind’s latest comment: Daily News Page 3, Politics Page, Friday May 21, 2010
Translated and Rewritten by Pornchai Sereemongkonpol
*If I can’t live there, then don’t hope that any Thai can live there comfortably.’
For a squeaky clean without much to say commentary on the proliferation of internet use over the past chaotic week, look no further than this edifying article, or maybe not.
However, whether a slip of the pen or missed by the sub editor, the writers, Sasiwimon Boonruang and Don Sambandaraksa, did acknowledge that government censorship does exist!
”The political unrest has given rise to many other Facebook groups as people use the website to express their political views without fear of government censorship.”
Sariwatta #56 funding the reds: take into account all the cash collected locally, multiply the money-trees by the thousands of local groups organizing them and you will end up which huge amounts enabling to finance the transports, the food etc, in the total, Thaksin’s funds are only one part of the cash needed to sustain many months of peaceful demonstration, of podiums. You cannot instruct people to demonstrate during months by simply paying them, at least no more in Thailand, they have now access to satellite TV and Internet, they have their own Radio stations, it’s not North Korea. Don’t judge the people of the North and East as so ignorant, they are not issued of a culture of slavery.Why not tell us something about the queen funding the yellow-shirts? Those how looted and destroyed partly the airport were not put to jail, the shop owners are left to themselves, the “independent” judges decided that the Yellows were not terrorists but good citizens.
If the reds would have been really as armed as the army now wants to make believe, the army death toll would have been much higher. When the reds left they handed over their few weapons and had them photographed to proof. Now that the army steps in to “clean” they suddenly find sophisticated weapons. Now they even and suddenly find weapons in the country-side, hidden underwater in waterproof envelopes, caches they were not able to discover before the disorder. What a great Punch and Judy show, a big laugh, if it wasn’t so tragic. Official ThaiTV, probably one of the worst of the world, and its puppet PM want now to “make peace” after having put a gun on the peoples heads. That wont work.
>Thai people can no longer live in a self-satisfying vacuum of false piety and sanctimonious hand wringing when things go bady wrong in their society.
You want to bet ?
To the majority of upper class Thais what has happened was a peasant uprising that needed to be put down to maintain the natural social order and distribution of patronage that they have prospered under.
There are two visions of democracy in Asia the chaotic but representative ones of India, Thailand, Phillippines and Bangladesh and the limited democracy of the authoritarian one party states of most of the rest of Asia. It’s pretty clear that the Thai upper classes see the second as the most appropriate for Thailand. If Thailand was run with the politics of Singapore they would be overjoyed.
Most likely the government will now initiate a series of programs to suppress what they see as a low level rebellion. A combination of military suppression and a strong propaganda campaign is most likely. The military who are familiar with the process having done it before. Meanwhile the poor will need to be more securely disenfranchised from the democratic system since they can’t just be bought anymore.
The irony is that the situation creates the opportunity for the military and royal power centre to increase control of the political system to the detriment of the middle classes. In the end the distaste the middle class have for the poor could well used against them.
Chris B #13 – I’ve read this post before. Why are you recycling? I can’t see that it’s contributing anything to the discussion; seems to be more about you airing your knowledge of trivia, like name-dropping. What is your point?
Roger #28: thanks. Your comments re. your daughter’s school are typical. That the school in question, a government-run ‘show’-school is run like this is depressing, although not unusual. A colleague of mine worked at a Demonstration School attached to a University which had some outstanding facilities which were approaching ‘state-of-the-art’. They were not normally available to the students, however; they were opened only when parties of special visitors, e.g. overseas education officials, visited. Then they were closed up. I can’t say that this is typical, however; I haven’t had time to check.
The ‘tea money’ thing is absolutely normal for entry to most of these schools, or special programs they have. I have been told by Thai teachers that the money goes to senior staff members (Directors, etc.), in much the same way as bribes are divided up by police.
Your comments on the Head of English & exams are typical, & apply equally to some private schools. Also to some lesser universities.
Agreed: a huge amount of the energy in education institutions goes into activities that are really about control of students & staff- universities as well as schools. I couldn’t believe it when, shortly after arriving here, I saw a senior humanities lecturer standing at the gate, sending students home if their dresses were too short, hair ‘inappropriate’, etc. This was a regular daily rostered activity for Thai teaching staff. Teachers had to sign on by a certain time every morning, even if their first class was mid-afternoon, and this continued into the breaks between semesters – although the teachers, having signed on & off in the morning, could go home – thus preventing them from going away from Bangkok.
Macca #29: “Did you know that it is not uncommon in some village schools to have up to 60 in a class and the teacher stands at the front with a megaphone.” That applies equally to most Bangkok schools, although the amplification is usually through a mic., which is turned up so loud that it becomes impossible to teach in the next room, or on the next floor, without doing the same. Most teachers in high schools don’t know their students’ names – too many.
English is taught in Thai language. The teachers sit at the front & prattle on in Thai. Occasionally one can pick up a badly-pronounced English word. The students are learning ‘about English’, but they are not learning English.
Roger, I’ve seen many cases similar to the cell-phone video; 2 in the last 12 months involved the internet. G9 girls posted photos of their rivals on internet dating sites, with provocative text, & a cell phone number. The parents complained, the perpetrators were tracked down, and no meaningful action was taken. In one case, the father of the main culprit was a lawyer. He threatened the school. His daughter went around with a smug & insolent expression for some time, & became something of a hero. This was in a private school. I’ve had to work very carefully with a number of kids who had been abused by fellow students. One, mildly autistic, had been tied up, beaten, & locked in a cleaning cupboard, by a whole group of students. No action by the school, so his parents removed him. Some students at my school tried to bully him. We (foreign teachers – the Thais didn’t want to know about it) put a very swift end to that.
Another was repeatedly emotionally abused & humiliated by nuns at a very famous school in the area of the recent protests. She is still going regularly to a psychiatrist, 3 years later. Fortunately she’s much better now, no thanks to my Thai colleagues, who regarded her as a nuisance, although they went through the motions of sympathy in meetings with the parents. The mother told me that her daughter used to try to throw herself out of the car on the way to school. She said that many former students were undergoing psychiatric treatment. “Why didn’t you take legal action?” I said. The reply was that she was threatened. She was unwilling to discuss the matter further.
I assisted with research on a project about transgender males (‘ladyboys”). We discovered that most of the respondents had had their first sexual experience with male Thai teachers at government schools, usually at from 10 to 12 years of age. They didn’t seem to think there was anything wrong with that.
Sorry to be “crass and disrespectful,” Pharris #35. Maybe it’s better to let the boat sink, rather than rock it. BTW, I’ve never heard an ugly American called a ‘kangaroo’ in Oz. The offspring of migrant families refer to anglo-Australians as ‘skips’, which refers to Skippy, the Bush Kangaroo (old tv series), though. I like it. Unfortunately these “uncivilized natives”, as the Yellowshirts would describe them, do know, at long last, “what’s good for them.” That’s why they’re rebelling.
Khun Benja – here’s another very well-known observation:
“Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.”
(Sir Winston Churchill in the British Parliament – November 11, 1947)
Regarding the comments from various of America’s founding fathers, let’s recall the opening words of their beloved Declaration of Independence:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”
That it was signed by quite so many slave-owning gentlemen is a cross that Americans have to bear. Substitute “white landowning males” for “all men” and you have something closer to the truth of their time – just not quite so poetic. Lest I attract the righteous wrath of my Atlantic cousins, let me also point out that England/Britain took a while after the Romans left before achieving something one could reasonably call “democracy”.
I”ve been associated with Thailand for nearly fifty years and although I like Thais and their country very much. I must say that as a people they exhibit the same moral blindness of the Germans circa 1930’s and 40’s. I was in the country in 2003 when Thaksin was conducting his “sonderbehandling” (special treatment) of so called drug dealers. Without exception, every Thai, I spoke to about this, applauded this action. I later transpired that most of the murdered unfortunates had absolutely no links whatsoever with drugs and Thaksin apologists continue their slander of the dead. I have no sympathy with any society that refuses to confront this bloody episode in their past. Murder of this magnitude is a crime against humanity and I’m tired of listening to “holocaust denial” style arguments that there is no proof to implicate Thaksin!
Stuart blames the reds but tries to excuse them because of lack of education, etc.
as I have said elsewhere, democracy is actually very simple, anyone that is aware of the environment they live in and can judge other people can choose who they will vote for
I blame the amart because they do not want to understand democracy.
they hate any idea that could permit anyone else to control what happens in Thailand.
the military have recognised that the amart were using them as a tool so they have now taken over the amart, the 700 generals have become the controllers, even the big families must now submit to the military involvement in their businesses, the royals are infiltrated by the military through the privy council and the CPB.
the military are against democracy and will not permit the reds to win. because of their links with the US military it will be a huge challenge for the people of Thailand to bring the military under civilian control.
many people wonder how the redshirts fund their activities
lets just explore this a little:
someone a couple of months ago said that after the travelling seminars around the country there were 1.5M red members @50Baht each
probably lot more members now (especially after the military action)
plus heaps of donations, we were at the rally at Rajamangala Stadium 2 years ago and joined many people in donating, there were lots of notes up to 1oooBaht in the box which was emptied every couple of hours
and a very indirectly related story:
about 10 years ago we went to the funeral of Ajahn Chah, a revered monk near Ubon
we helped in one of the big group of food kitchens that were setup ro feed people for 2 week period
it started with only a few thousand people camped in the forest, by the end of the week the MEA was installing major new electric power lines and transformers and truck loads of rice and all donated foodstuffs were streaming in.
we were feeding everyone for free, the crowd peaked at 1.5M people that turned up for the two nights and the day of the funeral
so a rally of 100,000 or so is childs play and possibly not as significant for the people of Esaan
its also an indication why Esaan people dont quite understand Bangkok peoples fixation on trivia like money
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What next for Thailand?
-JohnH-
Thanks for your reply. You make some good points, particularly that the western system tends to be administered in a velvet glove.
When I mentioned our health care system I was primarily thinking about the Canadian one. Our once good system has been systematically degraded in the last decade to the point where its almost useless. In fact, I have given up trying to access health care in Canada and now go to Thailand for all my medical needs. Its cheaper, better, and you don’t have to wait for hours in waiting rooms. Also Thailand has not been bought and sold by the world drug companies so medicine there is actually affordable.
I don’t know what the situation is in the United States but I am aware that the FDA there is partially funded by pharmaceutical companies, in what may be the finest example of corruption that I can think of. How do you feel about the drug company’s’ monopoly in North America and being forced to pay the world’s highest prices for medicine?
—
Biopharm bulletin describing the 340 million dollars the industry pays the FDA annually – one fifth of the FDA budget.
http://biopharminternational.findpharma.com/biopharm/User-Fees-Bolster-FDArsquos-BudgetmdashAnalysis/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/406718
What next for Thailand?
Smith Jones #4 :
Speculation among some journalists at the FCCT awhile ago was that the real reason Harry Nicholaides was imprisoned on an arrest warrant which was two years old, was to intimidate people like Thitinan Pongsudhirak.
It does n’t seemed to have worked.
He still writes some of the best – if not the best – analysis, which is fearlessly accurate and balanced.
This fine article is of his usual extremely high standard.
Thai style democracy?
Benja S S #80: Your “the founders of the perceived leading democracy on this planet” seems to indicate U.S.A., which is actually a ‘constitutional republic’, as you put it. Many of those quoted on your list are British. Bit of a fizzer, eh?
Really, distinguishing between a republic & a democracy these days is a bit like hair-splitting. It’s been said (first by Madison) that US is a republic because it is a ‘representative’, rather than ‘direct’, democracy, but today so are many countries that are actually constitutional monarchies, & therefore not republics. Today it would be impossible to have a direct democracy – citizens would rebel if they had to vote on every issue.
George Jetson #67 (sorry this is so late – didn’t see it until tonight): the “exact phrase” from Elroy is not “this would not happen in a modern, non-draconian society.” He says “shouldn’t”, not “would not”. Is this hair-splitting? No, I don’t believe so. The meaning is different.
Also – you said, “objective analysis,”not me. I said, “objective scrutiny.” No I don’t have any made-up statistics. Do you? Better go back to your “reading comprehension course”!
May 13, 1969
In 1999, during the demonstrations in favour of Anwar against Mahathir, chinese journals drew a parallel between these and the race riots in 69. On the tile pages they had a pictute from the recent demonstrations side by side with pictures from 69. When I asked why what the reason for this was, the answer was quite simple. Whenever the Malaqy start to quarrel among themselves, sooner or later the Chinese (and Indians!) will suffer.
In 1969 a kind of basic socio-political consensus was established in Malaysia that firstly, the Malay will have special rights, and in turn the Chinese will be protected (to some degree). Secondly, that UMNO with the Barisan Nasional will guarantee this consensus. Tgis implies that UMNO will keep the Malay under control, so that the Chinese will nont be challenged. Since some years, UMNO faces the problem that it is less able to control the Malay and speak for them, and thereby might not be able to gurantee the consensus. I guess that UMNO currently faces the big problem to be more Malay and more Islamist then all competitors, to maintain its position as representatives of the Malay, but that this alienates the Chinese and Indians, so that Barisan Nasional can not claim to represent the nation.
In this framework the 1969 riots still are a rather sensible matter, just as the time from 2008 and 2010 will be for Thailand, or 1967 is for Indonesia.
May 13, 1969
Thanks very much Roger,
We’ll do that.
What was it like in KL?
Which version do you think is true?
London discussion of Thailand’s political turmoil
MangoBoy :
Suzie Wong wrote – “It is a public knowledge that the owner of Dusit Thani Hotel, Lady Chanat Piyaoui, is one of the Queen’s close confidant.” Do you deny this ?
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
This website is a very interesting site to reed when you see all the different coments that people have aboat the situation in Bangkok and Thailand! Its not easy to tell who is the “bad people” or “good people” when you see all the videos or photos that have been shown on the net or in the tv-news lately…can anybody tell me who shot the first shot? Could this happen in the USA…or in Russia..or in any other country? What would the goverment do if you had a similar situation in China or Burma? I know there is a lots of foreigners living in Thailand and i would like to know if they want Mr.Thaksin back to rule in this country? Have anybody noticed that his is convickted by the highest court in Thailand..does it mean anything to you..or? Can anybody tell me who you can you trust in Thailand…”redshirts,yellow,black or pink”? What about the police and the army? Anyway killings or murder is a crime wherever it happens and it should never have been taken to this level in Thailand..but im afraid that this is just the begining of a new violant period in the land of the smile!
20 May 1992
Benja S. Sariwatta
I’ve 1 stupid question. If you have some special power which can be stopped this crisis. Did you use it or not? for me, I use it for sure.
Even red-shirt is so called torrorist by government but can you please clarify what/who is red-shirt?
Government is reported that many innocents was killed by red-shirt. Are innocents red-shirt or not?
Giles Ungpakorn on asset seizures, etc
When uncensored speech is only for those that agree with the government, speech becomes an adjunct of the government. Censorship is the nationalization of thought. There was a time with the right amount of repression that this could work. Not any more.
There are many people who hold views that most of us would choose to ignore. We don’t read them. We don’t listen to them. That is private censorship.
Governments, though, because they represent a diverse, constantly changing group of people must ensure that these people can talk to each other and to the government without filters.
That doesn’t mean other people are require to listen to nonsense rants or take crude, silly arguments to heart.
What it means is the most foolish person has the same right as the most erudite to make his or her views known.
Only the most insecure government censor their population and cut of their international conversations. A mature, democratic government keeps the channels of communication open; because in a democracy the people are ones who are allowed to filter out the noise, not the government.
Commentary on roots of the Thai crisis
R.N.England could not be more wrong when he commented “The only direct stuff from Thaksin that I have seen lately has been conciliatory.”
Thaksin S. is vindictive and determined to give the city of Bangkok hell.
The mastermind’s latest comment: Daily News Page 3, Politics Page, Friday May 21, 2010
Translated and Rewritten by Pornchai Sereemongkonpol
*If I can’t live there, then don’t hope that any Thai can live there comfortably.’
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/telecom/178872/riots-spark-frenzy-on-net-pages
For a squeaky clean without much to say commentary on the proliferation of internet use over the past chaotic week, look no further than this edifying article, or maybe not.
However, whether a slip of the pen or missed by the sub editor, the writers, Sasiwimon Boonruang and Don Sambandaraksa, did acknowledge that government censorship does exist!
”The political unrest has given rise to many other Facebook groups as people use the website to express their political views without fear of government censorship.”
It’s a start, I suppose.
20 May 1992
Sariwatta #56 funding the reds: take into account all the cash collected locally, multiply the money-trees by the thousands of local groups organizing them and you will end up which huge amounts enabling to finance the transports, the food etc, in the total, Thaksin’s funds are only one part of the cash needed to sustain many months of peaceful demonstration, of podiums. You cannot instruct people to demonstrate during months by simply paying them, at least no more in Thailand, they have now access to satellite TV and Internet, they have their own Radio stations, it’s not North Korea. Don’t judge the people of the North and East as so ignorant, they are not issued of a culture of slavery.Why not tell us something about the queen funding the yellow-shirts? Those how looted and destroyed partly the airport were not put to jail, the shop owners are left to themselves, the “independent” judges decided that the Yellows were not terrorists but good citizens.
If the reds would have been really as armed as the army now wants to make believe, the army death toll would have been much higher. When the reds left they handed over their few weapons and had them photographed to proof. Now that the army steps in to “clean” they suddenly find sophisticated weapons. Now they even and suddenly find weapons in the country-side, hidden underwater in waterproof envelopes, caches they were not able to discover before the disorder. What a great Punch and Judy show, a big laugh, if it wasn’t so tragic. Official ThaiTV, probably one of the worst of the world, and its puppet PM want now to “make peace” after having put a gun on the peoples heads. That wont work.
What next for Thailand?
>Thai people can no longer live in a self-satisfying vacuum of false piety and sanctimonious hand wringing when things go bady wrong in their society.
You want to bet ?
To the majority of upper class Thais what has happened was a peasant uprising that needed to be put down to maintain the natural social order and distribution of patronage that they have prospered under.
There are two visions of democracy in Asia the chaotic but representative ones of India, Thailand, Phillippines and Bangladesh and the limited democracy of the authoritarian one party states of most of the rest of Asia. It’s pretty clear that the Thai upper classes see the second as the most appropriate for Thailand. If Thailand was run with the politics of Singapore they would be overjoyed.
Most likely the government will now initiate a series of programs to suppress what they see as a low level rebellion. A combination of military suppression and a strong propaganda campaign is most likely. The military who are familiar with the process having done it before. Meanwhile the poor will need to be more securely disenfranchised from the democratic system since they can’t just be bought anymore.
The irony is that the situation creates the opportunity for the military and royal power centre to increase control of the political system to the detriment of the middle classes. In the end the distaste the middle class have for the poor could well used against them.
Giles Ungpakorn on asset seizures, etc
Chris B #13 – I’ve read this post before. Why are you recycling? I can’t see that it’s contributing anything to the discussion; seems to be more about you airing your knowledge of trivia, like name-dropping. What is your point?
On Bhumibolists and Royalists
That’s truth. Many Thais are Bhumibolist.
What next for Thailand?
Roger #28: thanks. Your comments re. your daughter’s school are typical. That the school in question, a government-run ‘show’-school is run like this is depressing, although not unusual. A colleague of mine worked at a Demonstration School attached to a University which had some outstanding facilities which were approaching ‘state-of-the-art’. They were not normally available to the students, however; they were opened only when parties of special visitors, e.g. overseas education officials, visited. Then they were closed up. I can’t say that this is typical, however; I haven’t had time to check.
The ‘tea money’ thing is absolutely normal for entry to most of these schools, or special programs they have. I have been told by Thai teachers that the money goes to senior staff members (Directors, etc.), in much the same way as bribes are divided up by police.
Your comments on the Head of English & exams are typical, & apply equally to some private schools. Also to some lesser universities.
Agreed: a huge amount of the energy in education institutions goes into activities that are really about control of students & staff- universities as well as schools. I couldn’t believe it when, shortly after arriving here, I saw a senior humanities lecturer standing at the gate, sending students home if their dresses were too short, hair ‘inappropriate’, etc. This was a regular daily rostered activity for Thai teaching staff. Teachers had to sign on by a certain time every morning, even if their first class was mid-afternoon, and this continued into the breaks between semesters – although the teachers, having signed on & off in the morning, could go home – thus preventing them from going away from Bangkok.
Macca #29: “Did you know that it is not uncommon in some village schools to have up to 60 in a class and the teacher stands at the front with a megaphone.” That applies equally to most Bangkok schools, although the amplification is usually through a mic., which is turned up so loud that it becomes impossible to teach in the next room, or on the next floor, without doing the same. Most teachers in high schools don’t know their students’ names – too many.
English is taught in Thai language. The teachers sit at the front & prattle on in Thai. Occasionally one can pick up a badly-pronounced English word. The students are learning ‘about English’, but they are not learning English.
Roger, I’ve seen many cases similar to the cell-phone video; 2 in the last 12 months involved the internet. G9 girls posted photos of their rivals on internet dating sites, with provocative text, & a cell phone number. The parents complained, the perpetrators were tracked down, and no meaningful action was taken. In one case, the father of the main culprit was a lawyer. He threatened the school. His daughter went around with a smug & insolent expression for some time, & became something of a hero. This was in a private school. I’ve had to work very carefully with a number of kids who had been abused by fellow students. One, mildly autistic, had been tied up, beaten, & locked in a cleaning cupboard, by a whole group of students. No action by the school, so his parents removed him. Some students at my school tried to bully him. We (foreign teachers – the Thais didn’t want to know about it) put a very swift end to that.
Another was repeatedly emotionally abused & humiliated by nuns at a very famous school in the area of the recent protests. She is still going regularly to a psychiatrist, 3 years later. Fortunately she’s much better now, no thanks to my Thai colleagues, who regarded her as a nuisance, although they went through the motions of sympathy in meetings with the parents. The mother told me that her daughter used to try to throw herself out of the car on the way to school. She said that many former students were undergoing psychiatric treatment. “Why didn’t you take legal action?” I said. The reply was that she was threatened. She was unwilling to discuss the matter further.
I assisted with research on a project about transgender males (‘ladyboys”). We discovered that most of the respondents had had their first sexual experience with male Thai teachers at government schools, usually at from 10 to 12 years of age. They didn’t seem to think there was anything wrong with that.
Sorry to be “crass and disrespectful,” Pharris #35. Maybe it’s better to let the boat sink, rather than rock it. BTW, I’ve never heard an ugly American called a ‘kangaroo’ in Oz. The offspring of migrant families refer to anglo-Australians as ‘skips’, which refers to Skippy, the Bush Kangaroo (old tv series), though. I like it. Unfortunately these “uncivilized natives”, as the Yellowshirts would describe them, do know, at long last, “what’s good for them.” That’s why they’re rebelling.
Thai style democracy?
Khun Benja – here’s another very well-known observation:
“Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.”
(Sir Winston Churchill in the British Parliament – November 11, 1947)
Regarding the comments from various of America’s founding fathers, let’s recall the opening words of their beloved Declaration of Independence:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”
That it was signed by quite so many slave-owning gentlemen is a cross that Americans have to bear. Substitute “white landowning males” for “all men” and you have something closer to the truth of their time – just not quite so poetic. Lest I attract the righteous wrath of my Atlantic cousins, let me also point out that England/Britain took a while after the Romans left before achieving something one could reasonably call “democracy”.
What next for Thailand?
I”ve been associated with Thailand for nearly fifty years and although I like Thais and their country very much. I must say that as a people they exhibit the same moral blindness of the Germans circa 1930’s and 40’s. I was in the country in 2003 when Thaksin was conducting his “sonderbehandling” (special treatment) of so called drug dealers. Without exception, every Thai, I spoke to about this, applauded this action. I later transpired that most of the murdered unfortunates had absolutely no links whatsoever with drugs and Thaksin apologists continue their slander of the dead. I have no sympathy with any society that refuses to confront this bloody episode in their past. Murder of this magnitude is a crime against humanity and I’m tired of listening to “holocaust denial” style arguments that there is no proof to implicate Thaksin!
What next for Thailand?
Stuart blames the reds but tries to excuse them because of lack of education, etc.
as I have said elsewhere, democracy is actually very simple, anyone that is aware of the environment they live in and can judge other people can choose who they will vote for
I blame the amart because they do not want to understand democracy.
they hate any idea that could permit anyone else to control what happens in Thailand.
the military have recognised that the amart were using them as a tool so they have now taken over the amart, the 700 generals have become the controllers, even the big families must now submit to the military involvement in their businesses, the royals are infiltrated by the military through the privy council and the CPB.
the military are against democracy and will not permit the reds to win. because of their links with the US military it will be a huge challenge for the people of Thailand to bring the military under civilian control.
What next for Thailand?
many people wonder how the redshirts fund their activities
lets just explore this a little:
someone a couple of months ago said that after the travelling seminars around the country there were 1.5M red members @50Baht each
probably lot more members now (especially after the military action)
plus heaps of donations, we were at the rally at Rajamangala Stadium 2 years ago and joined many people in donating, there were lots of notes up to 1oooBaht in the box which was emptied every couple of hours
and a very indirectly related story:
about 10 years ago we went to the funeral of Ajahn Chah, a revered monk near Ubon
we helped in one of the big group of food kitchens that were setup ro feed people for 2 week period
it started with only a few thousand people camped in the forest, by the end of the week the MEA was installing major new electric power lines and transformers and truck loads of rice and all donated foodstuffs were streaming in.
we were feeding everyone for free, the crowd peaked at 1.5M people that turned up for the two nights and the day of the funeral
so a rally of 100,000 or so is childs play and possibly not as significant for the people of Esaan
its also an indication why Esaan people dont quite understand Bangkok peoples fixation on trivia like money