just got back from Udon Thani, i went up with the free train for red shirts from Ratchaprasong. It seems from the many conversation that nobody among them thinks that this is going to end confrontation in any way. But each group among them seem to have different proposals for the future of the struggle and different techniques. What is sure is that Isaan, or at least Udon, is a very hot place now. I had the most openly revolutionary conversation i have ever had in Thailand. Seeing five farmers discussing historically about the evolution of the role of the monarchy and the army since the 70s and talking about the need for keeping the struggle in an autonomous way without leaders who order them around was quite amazing. It is very hard to say where this is going but we are definitely a long way from the accusations of being a “rented mob” and the “Isaan people” as uneducated followers.
I have just posted about the two days before i went to Isaan, soon i will post about the last day and a half up there.
[…] compromises. To borrow imagery from a stirring speech that Nattawut Saikua delivered in 2008 (EN, TH, video below), however, the sky is closer today than it has ever been. The old order is dead. […]
DaveH,
They should (and no doubt) will be tried for incitement to violence. Unfortunately there are scores of others in dire need of serious criminal charges, including those responsible for the 2006 coup (treason), who have never been tried. PAD leaders, for example, have never been tried for any criminal acts, including the occupation of the airports. How swiftly the Thai justice system works against the poor and their champions! How swiftly it rewards the rich for their crimes–whether it’s rich kids getting away with murder, generals and politicians getting away with coups, editors-in-chief inciting hatred, etc. Keep demanding “the rule of law”, just don’t ignore the ‘red-shirts’ when they demand the same.
You might like to look at the Australian Army archives. I was serving with 1RAR, 28th Commonwealth Infantry Brigade during that period and we were not only on alert to move at 10 minutes notice to protect Australians in KL, but we also did the Australian Army riot drills whilst waiting.
The common thread between AlQaeda’s NY 9/11 attack and The Reds Bangkok May/2010 attack are its ‘venom-hate’ theme (sample Red utube Burn Bangkok theme attached.)
Bangkok was fortunate (thanks to military intervention) that lives lost did not nearly approach the 3,000 innocents killed at NY . . but those violent Red radicals hard murder in their eyes and the deadly determination to carry that out. (And to the Reds sympathizers telling me that PM Abhisit/military provoked the arsons and rampage I’d reply you’ve been radicalized too.)
The main of my post above (#7) is to remind you all NM gentlemen/ladies that your non-violent Reds had: (1) murdered and killed and maimed, (2) gutted 39 Bangkok buildings (3) caused untold miseries to the survivors of the victims and to tens of thousands deprived of their jobs. (And to the Reds sympathizers who kept repeating that insurance covered the losses . . . I say you’ve lost not only your minds but also your souls).
How on earth could NM cheer on these murderous Reds after the Bangkok burnings in May 2010?
Before we get ahead of ourselves, let’s just touch base with reality.
PBS: Peau Thai has just nominated Chalerm as the next prime minister, should Abhisit be forced to step down. It’s looks like they want a debate and censure over the recent events.
The latter is absolutely essentential, but Chalerm…
The wish list is indeed commendable and obviously worthy of continuing discussion on NM, but let’s not forget where we are and the true nature of politics inThailand.
Chalerm, Chavalit, Banharn et al have all been conspiciously silent this last week, at least in public.
I don’t know what has been going on in private, but I’m willing to bet with these characters involved it won’t be good for Thailand and its people.
I recognise the extreme limits that LM puts on frank discussion of the situation in Thailand. Which in part is why I find it frustrating that people who should know better seek to ascribe fact to gossip. And in honesty chris beale’s poorly chosen words are next to insignificant by comparison to some of the propaganda doing the rounds. Though it was fun crossing swords with him.
I take your point about linking events and conjecture loosely together to arrive at some basic cognitive collage about what has happened and why.
With that in mind, people like chris beale ought to keep their ears to the ground for the latest round of hearsay as to SD’s role in all of this, take it into consideration with what has been said in this forum (without the benefit of a verifiable source, just as chris has done above) , then decide how quickly they want to confirm it as fact.
Thailand will evolve despite and because of its previous political and natural crises, including bird flu and the tsunami. I have lived part of every year in Thailand for over a quarter of a century and it continues to build. As sad as the destruction to the downtown of one of the most vibrant cities in the world, Thailand still has other great shopping centres, the best food at the lowest prices anywhere in the world and an excellent price-quality ratio. Hotels will continue to be packed and tourists will seek out bargains among the debris.
Elections will be held within a year or so, new people will come to power, other crises will unfold over time, hopefully less dramatic.
As sad as this situation has been, it will inevitably lead to progress along the same lines as the present. There will not be an abrupt break with tradition.
There will however be a bigger change in the works come the royal transition, whenever that occurs.
My prediction is a neo-con coup at some point in the next year or so – a hard swing to the ultra-right. Probably bloodless initially – since the idea would be just eliminate the middle-man (Abhisit) and get on with things without the need for any further insincere promises and niceties. Maybe the yellow’s will start some urban shady attacks to outrage but blame will be pinned on the reds – then the army steps in to ‘crush the terrorist-left-insurgency’.
Anyone who thinks that the network Amartaya system is on shaky ground due to upcoming natural events is mistaken. Equally so, there isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell of any kind of particpatory democratic society emerging from Abhisit’s ‘roadmap’. As Ji has said before, the complete absence of a real mobilizing grassroots peoples’ party is what allows the Amartya to continue to play the game by its rules and win each time. When the army and their backers are flipping the coin – it’s heads they win – tails you lose every time!
I have True internet and around 9:30 p.m. both Facebook and Twitter were blocked. I got directed to that capo…..site showing a white screen and the red Thai writing about the SOE. I was able to go to Twitter via proxy servers (especially those without “proxy” in their URLs). I could log onto Facebook but never got my page up. Fortunately the block stopped about 90 minutes later.
Yesterday Facebook was blocked for about 10 minutes, this time with the little fern photo on the upper left of the screen. (Is that a subliminal suggestion blocking is a natural phenomenon?)
I think the red shirt movement needs to actively distance itself from its more violent and extreme elements. Ensuring that the human rights of all red shirts are respected is important. Those who have only engaged in peaceful protest should be protected by the law, but those who have engaged in violence should be punished. There needs to be a fair legal process to determine this.
I don’t think the red shirts should be launching any more mass protests in Bangkok in the short term. They really should go back to the provinces and work at the grassroots level to build up their organisation in a democratic way and engage in education and debate about democracy.
One might add, “What next for Chinese-Thai versus Thai-Thai relations?” After all, this conflict had much to do with the Bangkok middle-class/establishment Chinese-Thai rejecting the “rural hordes” of Thai-Thais. That is, the conflict had a strong ethnic, cultural, and life-style component.
Reuters reports…
6:05pm: Opposition Pheu Thai Party announced that it plans to file a motion in parliament on Monday for impeaching Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and four Cabinet ministers, while the party will also put forth Police Captain Chalerm Yubamrung as its candidate for filling any vacant premiership.
Obviously concerns about double standards in the Thai legal system no longer bothering PTP.
For me this has been an incredible test of Thai democracy – the ability of citizens to take big business to court for extreme environmental and health abuses and to hold the state accountable for a complete failure in applying planning standards, the independence of the courts, the ability of the government to resist pressure from business interests and foreign governments not to interfere with a court decision – and ultimately the ability of Thai civil society to help identify a way to resolve a conflict that has huge implications.
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
What next for Thailand?
I would like to dedicate this video clip to most foreign commentaters on this website.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBDm-jA3N80
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
can’t see some of those pages, here on true dsl in Bangkok… got the fern and a blank page for another link.
What next for Thailand?
just got back from Udon Thani, i went up with the free train for red shirts from Ratchaprasong. It seems from the many conversation that nobody among them thinks that this is going to end confrontation in any way. But each group among them seem to have different proposals for the future of the struggle and different techniques. What is sure is that Isaan, or at least Udon, is a very hot place now. I had the most openly revolutionary conversation i have ever had in Thailand. Seeing five farmers discussing historically about the evolution of the role of the monarchy and the army since the 70s and talking about the need for keeping the struggle in an autonomous way without leaders who order them around was quite amazing. It is very hard to say where this is going but we are definitely a long way from the accusations of being a “rented mob” and the “Isaan people” as uneducated followers.
I have just posted about the two days before i went to Isaan, soon i will post about the last day and a half up there.
sopranz.blogspot.com
The speech that wasn’t televised
[…] compromises. To borrow imagery from a stirring speech that Nattawut Saikua delivered in 2008 (EN, TH, video below), however, the sky is closer today than it has ever been. The old order is dead. […]
Burning, curfew
DaveH,
They should (and no doubt) will be tried for incitement to violence. Unfortunately there are scores of others in dire need of serious criminal charges, including those responsible for the 2006 coup (treason), who have never been tried. PAD leaders, for example, have never been tried for any criminal acts, including the occupation of the airports. How swiftly the Thai justice system works against the poor and their champions! How swiftly it rewards the rich for their crimes–whether it’s rich kids getting away with murder, generals and politicians getting away with coups, editors-in-chief inciting hatred, etc. Keep demanding “the rule of law”, just don’t ignore the ‘red-shirts’ when they demand the same.
May 13, 1969
You might like to look at the Australian Army archives. I was serving with 1RAR, 28th Commonwealth Infantry Brigade during that period and we were not only on alert to move at 10 minutes notice to protect Australians in KL, but we also did the Australian Army riot drills whilst waiting.
Rather an interesting period.
On Bhumibolists and Royalists
Peter #22 :
Grant Evans wrote a good review of Handley, in my opinion.
On Bhumibolists and Royalists
Rose – thanks for your well thought out comments.
By the way, what are your views on Thailand, past, present and future?
I’d love to hear them.
On Bhumibolists and Royalists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBDm-jA3N80
The common thread between AlQaeda’s NY 9/11 attack and The Reds Bangkok May/2010 attack are its ‘venom-hate’ theme (sample Red utube Burn Bangkok theme attached.)
Bangkok was fortunate (thanks to military intervention) that lives lost did not nearly approach the 3,000 innocents killed at NY . . but those violent Red radicals hard murder in their eyes and the deadly determination to carry that out. (And to the Reds sympathizers telling me that PM Abhisit/military provoked the arsons and rampage I’d reply you’ve been radicalized too.)
The main of my post above (#7) is to remind you all NM gentlemen/ladies that your non-violent Reds had: (1) murdered and killed and maimed, (2) gutted 39 Bangkok buildings (3) caused untold miseries to the survivors of the victims and to tens of thousands deprived of their jobs. (And to the Reds sympathizers who kept repeating that insurance covered the losses . . . I say you’ve lost not only your minds but also your souls).
How on earth could NM cheer on these murderous Reds after the Bangkok burnings in May 2010?
What next for Thailand?
Before we get ahead of ourselves, let’s just touch base with reality.
PBS: Peau Thai has just nominated Chalerm as the next prime minister, should Abhisit be forced to step down. It’s looks like they want a debate and censure over the recent events.
The latter is absolutely essentential, but Chalerm…
The wish list is indeed commendable and obviously worthy of continuing discussion on NM, but let’s not forget where we are and the true nature of politics inThailand.
Chalerm, Chavalit, Banharn et al have all been conspiciously silent this last week, at least in public.
I don’t know what has been going on in private, but I’m willing to bet with these characters involved it won’t be good for Thailand and its people.
London discussion of Thailand’s political turmoil
Thank you Nuomi.
Your comment is very thoughtful and helpful.
I recognise the extreme limits that LM puts on frank discussion of the situation in Thailand. Which in part is why I find it frustrating that people who should know better seek to ascribe fact to gossip. And in honesty chris beale’s poorly chosen words are next to insignificant by comparison to some of the propaganda doing the rounds. Though it was fun crossing swords with him.
I take your point about linking events and conjecture loosely together to arrive at some basic cognitive collage about what has happened and why.
With that in mind, people like chris beale ought to keep their ears to the ground for the latest round of hearsay as to SD’s role in all of this, take it into consideration with what has been said in this forum (without the benefit of a verifiable source, just as chris has done above) , then decide how quickly they want to confirm it as fact.
20 May 1992
May I remind you NM readers before the red-shirts’ rallies in BKK what had occurred?
http://www.newmandala.org/2010/03/12/thai-style-democracy-2/
What next for Thailand?
Thailand will evolve despite and because of its previous political and natural crises, including bird flu and the tsunami. I have lived part of every year in Thailand for over a quarter of a century and it continues to build. As sad as the destruction to the downtown of one of the most vibrant cities in the world, Thailand still has other great shopping centres, the best food at the lowest prices anywhere in the world and an excellent price-quality ratio. Hotels will continue to be packed and tourists will seek out bargains among the debris.
Elections will be held within a year or so, new people will come to power, other crises will unfold over time, hopefully less dramatic.
As sad as this situation has been, it will inevitably lead to progress along the same lines as the present. There will not be an abrupt break with tradition.
There will however be a bigger change in the works come the royal transition, whenever that occurs.
What next for Thailand?
Ron’s “Roadmap” Leads to the “Right”
My prediction is a neo-con coup at some point in the next year or so – a hard swing to the ultra-right. Probably bloodless initially – since the idea would be just eliminate the middle-man (Abhisit) and get on with things without the need for any further insincere promises and niceties. Maybe the yellow’s will start some urban shady attacks to outrage but blame will be pinned on the reds – then the army steps in to ‘crush the terrorist-left-insurgency’.
Anyone who thinks that the network Amartaya system is on shaky ground due to upcoming natural events is mistaken. Equally so, there isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell of any kind of particpatory democratic society emerging from Abhisit’s ‘roadmap’. As Ji has said before, the complete absence of a real mobilizing grassroots peoples’ party is what allows the Amartya to continue to play the game by its rules and win each time. When the army and their backers are flipping the coin – it’s heads they win – tails you lose every time!
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
Oops. In the previous post I intended to say that around 9:30 pm ON THE 19TH True blocked my internet for ~ 90 minutes. Sorry!
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
I have True internet and around 9:30 p.m. both Facebook and Twitter were blocked. I got directed to that capo…..site showing a white screen and the red Thai writing about the SOE. I was able to go to Twitter via proxy servers (especially those without “proxy” in their URLs). I could log onto Facebook but never got my page up. Fortunately the block stopped about 90 minutes later.
Yesterday Facebook was blocked for about 10 minutes, this time with the little fern photo on the upper left of the screen. (Is that a subliminal suggestion blocking is a natural phenomenon?)
What next for Thailand?
I think the red shirt movement needs to actively distance itself from its more violent and extreme elements. Ensuring that the human rights of all red shirts are respected is important. Those who have only engaged in peaceful protest should be protected by the law, but those who have engaged in violence should be punished. There needs to be a fair legal process to determine this.
I don’t think the red shirts should be launching any more mass protests in Bangkok in the short term. They really should go back to the provinces and work at the grassroots level to build up their organisation in a democratic way and engage in education and debate about democracy.
What next for Thailand?
One might add, “What next for Chinese-Thai versus Thai-Thai relations?” After all, this conflict had much to do with the Bangkok middle-class/establishment Chinese-Thai rejecting the “rural hordes” of Thai-Thais. That is, the conflict had a strong ethnic, cultural, and life-style component.
What next for Thailand?
What next?
Surely not Chalerm as PM.
Reuters reports…
6:05pm: Opposition Pheu Thai Party announced that it plans to file a motion in parliament on Monday for impeaching Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and four Cabinet ministers, while the party will also put forth Police Captain Chalerm Yubamrung as its candidate for filling any vacant premiership.
Obviously concerns about double standards in the Thai legal system no longer bothering PTP.
Well at least we see them for what they are
What next for Thailand?
Picking up on Ricky Ward’s comment…..
What next for the Map Tha Put case?
For me this has been an incredible test of Thai democracy – the ability of citizens to take big business to court for extreme environmental and health abuses and to hold the state accountable for a complete failure in applying planning standards, the independence of the courts, the ability of the government to resist pressure from business interests and foreign governments not to interfere with a court decision – and ultimately the ability of Thai civil society to help identify a way to resolve a conflict that has huge implications.
Democracy is not just about elections…….