I’m having no problem at present (6:20pm), but a week ago I was being blocked on this site and numerous other sites – even Bangkok Post while other pro-government sites worked fine – The Nation, TNA, MCOT – even Google (but then I could not open any pages). That was the second time in a month or so it happened. It seems the MICT has figured out that it’s easier to track the IP of people they don’t like and block their individual access to certain sites at will (obviously with a compliant Thai ISP), than blocking the whole site for everyone else.
“conjectures from a series of events are all we have at the moment”
This moment has lasted for years already and some people have seriously taken those conjectures for reality and would defend them to the last hyperbole.
Erewhon, Semi-nude calendars were pretty popular way back. Until the royalist took time to crush them for the sake of Morality. Now almost all calendars, have pictures of the K & Q on it. Coincidence?
Like I’ve said, the King is Thailand’s religion. In a religion, priest & zealots are found. It’s pretty much a given.
IMO, the reason the PAD crowd were scared of Thaksin’s redshirt, because they looked in the mirror and saw their own ugly reflection, whether or not the Reds follows Thaksin that way.
What next for former prime minister Thaksin
Give him back his money on condition he stays out of politics.
His corruption has never been proved in open court. I know the court decided to take his money but that does not prove anything. The only thing he has been found guilty of after nearly four years is signing a legal document for his wife. It has never been explained why this was illegal.
Despite this and considering his terrible record on other things. He should stay out of politics for the good of the country. He has had his turn, its time to clear the field for new people.
In addendum: the only Thai I take seriously in terms of thinking happens to be gay. His name is Apichartpong. He makes film. Thailand should be proud of him.
I failed to get a response in another thread, so I’ll try here instead. Can anyone direct me to an article which offers a balanced and detailed academic analysis of Handley’s book? Many thanks.
# What’s next for Thailand’s role in the Climate Catastrophe debate and the IPCC ?
Trying to work seriously on environmental issues here is incredibly frustrating because of everybody’s preoccupation with the crisis of government.
Last year I tried to ask for support from the State Railway’s Union but could not get near them as I was told they were preoccupied with politics.
Also may I suggest NM opens threads on various What Next topics so we can have a focussed debate and perhaps try to combine a number.
More on Thaksin’s role in derailing the peacetalks, this time from James Hookway of Wall Street Journal:
1. “People on both sides of Thailand’s political divide with knowledge of the negotiations say that Mr. Thaksin’s interventions–which they say included a number of new demands that ended up slowing the talks intended to end the political standoff–delayed an agreement for new elections that would have enabled the protesters to call off their months-long rally. His machinations prompted the most senior opposition Red Shirt negotiator to quit in frustration, according to these people.”
2. “But in recent weeks Mr. Thaksin has kept in close contact with rogue military officers training a paramilitary “people’s army” to attack troops and turn Bangkok’s streets into a war zone, according to opposition members involved in the conflict.”
3. “At a luxury hotel near the Red Shirts’ camp in central Bangkok, a team of Mr. Thaksin’s lawyers and advisers regularly conferred with protest leaders and other negotiators to ensure that Mr. Thaksin was kept in the loop over the past several weeks.”
4. “People involved in both government and opposition camps say Mr. Thaksin urged hard-liners to come up with fresh demands that stalled the process, ultimately leading to the talks’ collapse.They say Red Shirt leader Veera Musikapong quit the negotiations in disgust.
“He was questioning why they were bothering to talk when Mr. Thaksin was delaying any progress,” says one person involved in the mediations. Mr. Veera is in army custody and couldn’t be reached for comment.”
Nuomi #16 you seemed to have the situation spot on.
Some posts have commented that Taksin is corrupt and seems to have agreed completely with the government stance and non stop condemmation of him.
I believe we need to have a different prespective where corruption is concerned in the Thai context; there is a great degree of corruption in the government (including the juduciary) and their backers (whether hidden or open). This includes the armed forces and the police. This is the situation before Taksin and after Taksin even today- most are in it for the power and money.
If the above point can be accepted, the Taksin seems who has awaken and empowered the masses that they too can get in on the money train.
Nuomi in the post seems to be spot on, the reds want and election that will allow them the same power to crush any protests that the yellow will initiate. In this context they want to be in charge before the army head changes and before a budget is passed.
Can someone even a third party find a middle ground given the stakes in power and money is so high? Current ‘yellow’ government will probably never allow ever neutral monitors to any election-or it will be hard to justify another protest to evict an opposition government.
As of Thai time (14.23) Political Prisoners in Thailand remains blocked on True. A great shame as its excellent commentary and content perfectly complemented NM.
Abhisit indeed offered the Nov 14 date to all Thai people, not just one group. He offered it, he could withdrew it, he wasn’t bound by any promises.
Whatever his calculation of Nov 14 was, it was clear from the start that main condition was discontinuing the red rally, and he had listed other factors that could have postponed the election date even further.
Reds, of course, were right that he didn’t commit himself to anything, and that it’s beyond his authority to set election dates.
That was his offer, however, they agreed to it in principle, and it was hinged on their full cooperation that clearly wasn’t forthcoming.
Probe in Oct 2008 violence named a whole bunch of senior officials from both police and the government. I don’t remember if Somchai, who was the PM at the time, was exonerated or not.
Of course you could argue that it was police, not the army, but then – when did the army commit any serious atrocities?
Tak Bai and Krue Sue under Thaksin? Why would Abhisit resurrect those? He has more pressing matters to attend. Reds didn’t ask to investigate them either.
The blocking message you cite is all over the place here in Thailand. Many Facebook sites, eg Prachatai, UDD, Gile Ungkaporn, then there’s Prachatai original site, Freedom Against Censorship in Thailand, Political Prisoners in Thailand (selected stories of a sensitive nature) and Google links to web proxy sites.
I access NM through Google Reader and still have problems, though not as many with you as with those cited above.
The only site which seems to be able to continue uninterrupted is Bangkok Pundit, whose long experience has made him/her an expert in staying one jump ahead.
Mangoboy:
I am afraid no one can provide you with a clear evidence to support any claim that so-and-so is the defacto power in Thailand and that is a F.A.C.T.
There are a multitude of reasons why this should be the case, and top of the list IMO is the Les Majeste law. Any real in-depth critique of political governance in Thailand can be twisted in some way to trigger a les Majeste charge from an unhappy rival or enemy. Hence, most publicly available media are very carefully worded to the point of vagueness and can be interpretable many which ways.
Second, there are many factions and families whose power are interconnected in very simple yet complicated ways (I really no words to describe this for now, I am sorry) but who all share the same vision of ‘rotating power and wealth’ at the top of the foodchain. All have skeletons in their closets to use against one another and therefore end up protecting each other. All understood the your-turn-today-my-turn-tomorrow unwritten rules. All of them adhere to the enemies today friends tomorrow rule if it helps them retains power.
Like you, I find relying on heresy frustrating, but unfortunately conjectures from a series of events are all we have at the moment. Until the LM is lifted and people are able to talk freely and write freely that is.
Nearly all respondents (96.6 per cent) said they were very said to see that Thai people do not love each other anymore, according to Abac poll’s results released on Saturday.
Assumption University’s Abac poll sought for opinion from 1,185 households in 17 provinces on May 21.
According to the pollster, 97.8 per cent of the respondents were concerned about the low income people who have become jobless caused by political violence, while 74.5 per cent of them supported the five-point reconciliation road map proposed by the prime minister.
Sad eh? Not furious, not distraught, not…whatever.
Stuart Goddard – you are completely right on all points. Thailand has to wake up to the real world.
Thai people can no longer live in a self-satisfying vacuum of false piety and sanctimonious hand wringing when things go bady wrong in their society. Or any other time for that matter.
Start by looking in the mirror and thinking, really thinking, about the deceitful concept of greng jai, and how this dangerous and destructive evil pervades all levels of society from cradle to the grave.
I think this thread should be split into two separate threads.
1) What is realistically the future direction of the various factions in Thailand and how that might impact Thailand’s development as a democracy or as a country in the foreseeable future.
2) Want can those who really want democracy for Thailand do to help development of democracy in Thailand.
Even then, I feel 1) is still too broad-based.
Personally, I am more interested in a realistic and practical discussion of 2).
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New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
I’m having no problem at present (6:20pm), but a week ago I was being blocked on this site and numerous other sites – even Bangkok Post while other pro-government sites worked fine – The Nation, TNA, MCOT – even Google (but then I could not open any pages). That was the second time in a month or so it happened. It seems the MICT has figured out that it’s easier to track the IP of people they don’t like and block their individual access to certain sites at will (obviously with a compliant Thai ISP), than blocking the whole site for everyone else.
London discussion of Thailand’s political turmoil
“conjectures from a series of events are all we have at the moment”
This moment has lasted for years already and some people have seriously taken those conjectures for reality and would defend them to the last hyperbole.
20 May 1992
Erewhon, Semi-nude calendars were pretty popular way back. Until the royalist took time to crush them for the sake of Morality. Now almost all calendars, have pictures of the K & Q on it. Coincidence?
Like I’ve said, the King is Thailand’s religion. In a religion, priest & zealots are found. It’s pretty much a given.
IMO, the reason the PAD crowd were scared of Thaksin’s redshirt, because they looked in the mirror and saw their own ugly reflection, whether or not the Reds follows Thaksin that way.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
[…] […]
On Bhumibolists and Royalists
Peter, you might just as well ask for Richard Dawkins in a church library.
The survival of Najib and UMNO
[…] article first appeared in New Mandala Tagged: Najib Razak Posted in: Malaysia reforms, UMNO ← ASEAN economies […]
What next for Thailand?
What next for former prime minister Thaksin
Give him back his money on condition he stays out of politics.
His corruption has never been proved in open court. I know the court decided to take his money but that does not prove anything. The only thing he has been found guilty of after nearly four years is signing a legal document for his wife. It has never been explained why this was illegal.
Despite this and considering his terrible record on other things. He should stay out of politics for the good of the country. He has had his turn, its time to clear the field for new people.
Confronting Karen homophobia in Burma
In addendum: the only Thai I take seriously in terms of thinking happens to be gay. His name is Apichartpong. He makes film. Thailand should be proud of him.
On Bhumibolists and Royalists
I failed to get a response in another thread, so I’ll try here instead. Can anyone direct me to an article which offers a balanced and detailed academic analysis of Handley’s book? Many thanks.
What next for Thailand?
Another question:
# What’s next for Thailand’s role in the Climate Catastrophe debate and the IPCC ?
Trying to work seriously on environmental issues here is incredibly frustrating because of everybody’s preoccupation with the crisis of government.
Last year I tried to ask for support from the State Railway’s Union but could not get near them as I was told they were preoccupied with politics.
Also may I suggest NM opens threads on various What Next topics so we can have a focussed debate and perhaps try to combine a number.
Commentary on roots of the Thai crisis
More on Thaksin’s role in derailing the peacetalks, this time from James Hookway of Wall Street Journal:
1. “People on both sides of Thailand’s political divide with knowledge of the negotiations say that Mr. Thaksin’s interventions–which they say included a number of new demands that ended up slowing the talks intended to end the political standoff–delayed an agreement for new elections that would have enabled the protesters to call off their months-long rally. His machinations prompted the most senior opposition Red Shirt negotiator to quit in frustration, according to these people.”
2. “But in recent weeks Mr. Thaksin has kept in close contact with rogue military officers training a paramilitary “people’s army” to attack troops and turn Bangkok’s streets into a war zone, according to opposition members involved in the conflict.”
3. “At a luxury hotel near the Red Shirts’ camp in central Bangkok, a team of Mr. Thaksin’s lawyers and advisers regularly conferred with protest leaders and other negotiators to ensure that Mr. Thaksin was kept in the loop over the past several weeks.”
4. “People involved in both government and opposition camps say Mr. Thaksin urged hard-liners to come up with fresh demands that stalled the process, ultimately leading to the talks’ collapse.They say Red Shirt leader Veera Musikapong quit the negotiations in disgust.
“He was questioning why they were bothering to talk when Mr. Thaksin was delaying any progress,” says one person involved in the mediations. Mr. Veera is in army custody and couldn’t be reached for comment.”
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704852004575257790134925082.html?mod=WSJ_World_LeadStory
Former Australian Foreign Minister calls for new election in Thailand
Nuomi #16 you seemed to have the situation spot on.
Some posts have commented that Taksin is corrupt and seems to have agreed completely with the government stance and non stop condemmation of him.
I believe we need to have a different prespective where corruption is concerned in the Thai context; there is a great degree of corruption in the government (including the juduciary) and their backers (whether hidden or open). This includes the armed forces and the police. This is the situation before Taksin and after Taksin even today- most are in it for the power and money.
If the above point can be accepted, the Taksin seems who has awaken and empowered the masses that they too can get in on the money train.
Nuomi in the post seems to be spot on, the reds want and election that will allow them the same power to crush any protests that the yellow will initiate. In this context they want to be in charge before the army head changes and before a budget is passed.
Can someone even a third party find a middle ground given the stakes in power and money is so high? Current ‘yellow’ government will probably never allow ever neutral monitors to any election-or it will be hard to justify another protest to evict an opposition government.
What next for Thailand?
I would like to suggest another long-term question: What next for Thailands party system?
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
As of Thai time (14.23) Political Prisoners in Thailand remains blocked on True. A great shame as its excellent commentary and content perfectly complemented NM.
What a state of affairs!
Commentary on roots of the Thai crisis
Bkk Lawyer,
Abhisit indeed offered the Nov 14 date to all Thai people, not just one group. He offered it, he could withdrew it, he wasn’t bound by any promises.
Whatever his calculation of Nov 14 was, it was clear from the start that main condition was discontinuing the red rally, and he had listed other factors that could have postponed the election date even further.
Reds, of course, were right that he didn’t commit himself to anything, and that it’s beyond his authority to set election dates.
That was his offer, however, they agreed to it in principle, and it was hinged on their full cooperation that clearly wasn’t forthcoming.
Probe in Oct 2008 violence named a whole bunch of senior officials from both police and the government. I don’t remember if Somchai, who was the PM at the time, was exonerated or not.
Of course you could argue that it was police, not the army, but then – when did the army commit any serious atrocities?
Tak Bai and Krue Sue under Thaksin? Why would Abhisit resurrect those? He has more pressing matters to attend. Reds didn’t ask to investigate them either.
New Mandala “temporarily curtailed”?
The blocking message you cite is all over the place here in Thailand. Many Facebook sites, eg Prachatai, UDD, Gile Ungkaporn, then there’s Prachatai original site, Freedom Against Censorship in Thailand, Political Prisoners in Thailand (selected stories of a sensitive nature) and Google links to web proxy sites.
I access NM through Google Reader and still have problems, though not as many with you as with those cited above.
The only site which seems to be able to continue uninterrupted is Bangkok Pundit, whose long experience has made him/her an expert in staying one jump ahead.
London discussion of Thailand’s political turmoil
Mangoboy:
I am afraid no one can provide you with a clear evidence to support any claim that so-and-so is the defacto power in Thailand and that is a F.A.C.T.
There are a multitude of reasons why this should be the case, and top of the list IMO is the Les Majeste law. Any real in-depth critique of political governance in Thailand can be twisted in some way to trigger a les Majeste charge from an unhappy rival or enemy. Hence, most publicly available media are very carefully worded to the point of vagueness and can be interpretable many which ways.
Second, there are many factions and families whose power are interconnected in very simple yet complicated ways (I really no words to describe this for now, I am sorry) but who all share the same vision of ‘rotating power and wealth’ at the top of the foodchain. All have skeletons in their closets to use against one another and therefore end up protecting each other. All understood the your-turn-today-my-turn-tomorrow unwritten rules. All of them adhere to the enemies today friends tomorrow rule if it helps them retains power.
Like you, I find relying on heresy frustrating, but unfortunately conjectures from a series of events are all we have at the moment. Until the LM is lifted and people are able to talk freely and write freely that is.
What next for Thailand?
Well, here’s another helpful and concrete contribution to the current plight…
Poll: People feel sad on Thais’ conflict
Published: 22/05/2010 at 11:28 AM
Online news: Local News
http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/178811/poll-people-feel-sad-on-thais-conflict
Nearly all respondents (96.6 per cent) said they were very said to see that Thai people do not love each other anymore, according to Abac poll’s results released on Saturday.
Assumption University’s Abac poll sought for opinion from 1,185 households in 17 provinces on May 21.
According to the pollster, 97.8 per cent of the respondents were concerned about the low income people who have become jobless caused by political violence, while 74.5 per cent of them supported the five-point reconciliation road map proposed by the prime minister.
Sad eh? Not furious, not distraught, not…whatever.
Stuart Goddard – you are completely right on all points. Thailand has to wake up to the real world.
Thai people can no longer live in a self-satisfying vacuum of false piety and sanctimonious hand wringing when things go bady wrong in their society. Or any other time for that matter.
Start by looking in the mirror and thinking, really thinking, about the deceitful concept of greng jai, and how this dangerous and destructive evil pervades all levels of society from cradle to the grave.
On Bhumibolists and Royalists
@15 – your comment is entertaining, thank you 🙂
What next for Thailand?
I think this thread should be split into two separate threads.
1) What is realistically the future direction of the various factions in Thailand and how that might impact Thailand’s development as a democracy or as a country in the foreseeable future.
2) Want can those who really want democracy for Thailand do to help development of democracy in Thailand.
Even then, I feel 1) is still too broad-based.
Personally, I am more interested in a realistic and practical discussion of 2).