I will not claimed ignorance that there’re a huge trail of money, as well as, support from various individual to keep the UDD movement going. The UDD have taken a violent turn. The trigger is April 10th crackdown and the following anti-monarchist accusation from the govt. The UDD protesters and their supporters have “nothing else to lose”, if they don’t fight they will all go down and forever be branded as terrorist and traitor.
I’m not condoning their actions, there are war weapons, some of them are thugs, simply there to cause havoc ; but the govt’s pretense of reconciliation is insincere, I have not heard one apology from them. Look at the way they are treating the Bonkai community held captive in their own home. All the BKK governor was asking for was a moment of ceasefire so he can send in some supplies, he was totally ignored. These people do not have a second home in the suburb or enough money to check in to a hotel for a week, they can’t escape. It’s go to show that the govt. have no compassion for the downtrodden.
Those of you who hoping for a ‘mass popular uprising’ are in for a disappointment. You are completely out of touch with what people want.
Plenty of gunfire at the moment, sounds like rubber bullets along Rama IV but there is the odd grenade going off too. Big fire started near Lumpini tower, looks like some buildings are going up now.
For a real time crowd sourced feed of what’s going on, check out the link below. Be aware that there’s a fair amount of bullshit mixed in the with news:
Does anyone know, who was there last night, when the crowd rebelled against Nattawut and Jattaporn was it with or without input from the second generation leaders?
I don’t know how many of you left wing supporters live here in Bangkok.
What is the government supposed to do with people who refuse to
cease their blockade of the center of Bangkok after 2 months of patient negotiation, even providing mobile toilets for them to use? What other government in the world would have been so patient.? Do you really think this is about democracy? Is paying protesters an intergral part of democracy? Or is it akin to being a mercenary? Calling it a massacre is inflammatory. All the protesters have to do is leave. You really think the current red leadership is interested in the rights of the poor?
Here’s an example of how caring Jatuporn is:
Jatuporn served as secretary for Praphat Banyachartrak, a deputy agriculture minister and minister of natural resources and environment in the Thaksin government. In 2003, Jatuporn and other ministry officials came into conflict with local farmers in Nakhon Si Thammarat over government land policy. The farmers, in protest of government policy, took over a plantation owned by Thai Ruam Pattana Farming Co. The protesters accused authorities of leasing large tracts of land to big palm oil producers instead of redistributing the land to the farmers. In reponse to the land seizure, Jatuporn and other ministry officials ordered 1,000 police to retake the property. Jatuporn defended the action, saying the protesters were armed and violated trespassing laws. (Bangkok Post, October 30, 2003).
I would say the red shirts are not ending the demonstration because they came to Bangkok to be heard, not to be defeated. One of the interviews linked on another site showed some older women saying they are not going home because they came to fight for democracy and fight they will. Giving in to the use of military force will only demonstrate that they give power to the government to shut them up. The government has ignored the rural poor too long. The road map proposed was a positive step. I hope real change will be pursued.
I feel that the current images of red shirt defensive measures are only a reaction to the military’s use of force. Unfortunately, these images also undermine the appearance of a peaceful demonstration. I also appreciate Jim’s comments. The more I dig into this, the more I find references to behind the scenes maneuvering. I don’t know if Jim is exactly right, but his searching seems to be in line with other analysts I have read.
Thomas, I’m afraid you can’t have sensible conversation with people like Giles at all.
They are consumed and driven by hatred. Often they simply unable to hide it and I don’t know what is worse – dressing it in seemingly polite words or letting it go free.
Everybody voicing negative opinions about the Thai government must be hired. Where do people sign-up for this kind of thing? The money must be really good since the queue is so long…
Yes after 1000 repetitions, we are getting the regimes point loud and clear…. Thaksin is 100% responsible for the views of every single free thinking person within Thailand and throughout the world who questions and or condems the Thai governments actions. Thanks for educating us all your excellency!
We now accept without question that Thaksins ‘hired’in list includes all independent journalists who have repeatedly filmed and photographed the thai military snipering unarmed civilians, all independent human rights advocates throughout the world who condem the attrocities and of course every free thinking person on the planet who expresses revulsion towards the Thai governments extreme violence towards their own people.
We accept without question that the master of all pupeteers has ‘hired’ in the Sydney Morning Herald, BBC,CNN and the ABC to control all content.
I guess it would also be reasonable to assume the puppeteer also controls the weather, all global terrorist activities, and volcanic ash output from Europe.
May I suggest that your excellency write his next enlightened letter to the vatican to request they make room in their teachings for a mortal being with powers that are fast approaching those of the creator.
John Brandon, on the backgound of what I think is the White House
OK, he is not an official spokesman, but director of Asia Foundation something. He varies himself every hour, but every time it includes phrases such as “the army is having a very difficult task… these individuals are armed… they don’t belive in the political process….soldiers have a right to protect themselves.”
BBC reports 7-8 people being shot in “gun fights” already… the army is advancing.
NEW INFO: so a coup took place last week; Prem’s house confiscated; Prem and his underlings tried to regain power and is furious that Gov did not get rid of Reds. Prem’s cohorts were displaced in the military hierarchy. It is not longer Abhisit and Anupong’s game show: they have no pwer to negotiate now because the coup already took place last week. That makes sense. remember Abhisit said he was going to start negotiations last week- then army came out?? Starting to kill people…
There are two interesting articles up now. First, a report on red war weapons from a journalist who has been covering events from inside the demonstration: http://nationsstate.blogspot.com/
Second is a defense of Thaksin in Newsweek by a free lance journalist in New York. This looks to me to be the work of Thaksin’s PR flack, but if so, it is much, much more effective than anything coming out of Abhisit’s PR machine: http://www.newsweek.com/id/238161
Daniel
Thanks for this note.
It made me laugh because this note portraits the situation that is so bizarre, so ridiculous that it’s unreal.
I sincerely hope that the Thais are realizing that there are no limits in trying to deceive them , just to keep this government in power.
It’s like saying hey, those armored vehicles, helicopters and all those soldiers deployed and guns you see are not real.
What surprises me most is the emphasis laid on the patience the government has shown with these Red shirts – doing nothing is not being patient, but rather a sign of being clueless of what to do. But again and again I hear patience – strange concept of being patient and “tolerant”.
In BKK it got bad when snipers and military intervened and the L’Ouverture was the killing of the general, the count down started then.
Bad move then – worse move now – just looking back at history no government ever got anything out of it when using brutal oppression or strategies like this. It was just a question of time until they were overthrown – really amazed that the Thai top is so naive that they actually think they could get away with it.
Watching BBC World on TV, reporting live from Bangkok. Tanks from a distance.
News guy interviewing US spokesman (very serious looking): “The protesters were given a chance to negotiate… unconditionally. They neglected the deadline for a day and a half. … 60 deaths, but let us not forget that they are armed, even though with weapons which for us are parochial, but also with modern arms…” (roughly)
= go ahead Abhisit and generals
At the same time listening to/watching Carawan songs from the Rajprasong stage – at the Thai E-news link given above (thanks!)
Surreal… When will the soldiers come to the stage and replace the pua chiwit singers? Or shoot them…
Is this going to be this first televised massacre?
“a group of armed terrorist militia from within the Red Shirt protesters instigated and provoked violence against the unarmed military.”
– CRESS news report
As far as spin goes, this report is less than credible. If we are to believe this statement from CRESS, the Thai army is running around “unarmed” and under attack from “heavily armed” terrorists. Its just unfortunate that there has been no photographic evidence to support this statement.
Perhaps all of the foreign correspondents are terrorists as well, and they are all deliberately portraying the government in a bad light, maybe under orders from Osama Bin Laden himself!
Oh wait… that will be in next weeks CRESS news release.
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Day 5 – how much longer?
Dear all,
I will not claimed ignorance that there’re a huge trail of money, as well as, support from various individual to keep the UDD movement going. The UDD have taken a violent turn. The trigger is April 10th crackdown and the following anti-monarchist accusation from the govt. The UDD protesters and their supporters have “nothing else to lose”, if they don’t fight they will all go down and forever be branded as terrorist and traitor.
I’m not condoning their actions, there are war weapons, some of them are thugs, simply there to cause havoc ; but the govt’s pretense of reconciliation is insincere, I have not heard one apology from them. Look at the way they are treating the Bonkai community held captive in their own home. All the BKK governor was asking for was a moment of ceasefire so he can send in some supplies, he was totally ignored. These people do not have a second home in the suburb or enough money to check in to a hotel for a week, they can’t escape. It’s go to show that the govt. have no compassion for the downtrodden.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
Those of you who hoping for a ‘mass popular uprising’ are in for a disappointment. You are completely out of touch with what people want.
Plenty of gunfire at the moment, sounds like rubber bullets along Rama IV but there is the odd grenade going off too. Big fire started near Lumpini tower, looks like some buildings are going up now.
For a real time crowd sourced feed of what’s going on, check out the link below. Be aware that there’s a fair amount of bullshit mixed in the with news:
http://www.twitter.com/georgebkk
Video of Thailand on the Verge
sb presented the wrong meaning and
in 16.55 mins of the video the words mean i come without getting paid
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
Does anyone know, who was there last night, when the crowd rebelled against Nattawut and Jattaporn was it with or without input from the second generation leaders?
Bangkok: This is a massacre
I don’t know how many of you left wing supporters live here in Bangkok.
What is the government supposed to do with people who refuse to
cease their blockade of the center of Bangkok after 2 months of patient negotiation, even providing mobile toilets for them to use? What other government in the world would have been so patient.? Do you really think this is about democracy? Is paying protesters an intergral part of democracy? Or is it akin to being a mercenary? Calling it a massacre is inflammatory. All the protesters have to do is leave. You really think the current red leadership is interested in the rights of the poor?
Here’s an example of how caring Jatuporn is:
http://siamreport.blogspot.com/2010/02/jatuporn-promphan.html
Jatuporn served as secretary for Praphat Banyachartrak, a deputy agriculture minister and minister of natural resources and environment in the Thaksin government. In 2003, Jatuporn and other ministry officials came into conflict with local farmers in Nakhon Si Thammarat over government land policy. The farmers, in protest of government policy, took over a plantation owned by Thai Ruam Pattana Farming Co. The protesters accused authorities of leasing large tracts of land to big palm oil producers instead of redistributing the land to the farmers. In reponse to the land seizure, Jatuporn and other ministry officials ordered 1,000 police to retake the property. Jatuporn defended the action, saying the protesters were armed and violated trespassing laws. (Bangkok Post, October 30, 2003).
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
I would say the red shirts are not ending the demonstration because they came to Bangkok to be heard, not to be defeated. One of the interviews linked on another site showed some older women saying they are not going home because they came to fight for democracy and fight they will. Giving in to the use of military force will only demonstrate that they give power to the government to shut them up. The government has ignored the rural poor too long. The road map proposed was a positive step. I hope real change will be pursued.
I feel that the current images of red shirt defensive measures are only a reaction to the military’s use of force. Unfortunately, these images also undermine the appearance of a peaceful demonstration. I also appreciate Jim’s comments. The more I dig into this, the more I find references to behind the scenes maneuvering. I don’t know if Jim is exactly right, but his searching seems to be in line with other analysts I have read.
Giles Ungpakorn on asset seizures, etc
Thomas, I’m afraid you can’t have sensible conversation with people like Giles at all.
They are consumed and driven by hatred. Often they simply unable to hide it and I don’t know what is worse – dressing it in seemingly polite words or letting it go free.
Thai Embassy response to Hartcher
Everybody voicing negative opinions about the Thai government must be hired. Where do people sign-up for this kind of thing? The money must be really good since the queue is so long…
Thai Embassy response to Hartcher
Yes after 1000 repetitions, we are getting the regimes point loud and clear…. Thaksin is 100% responsible for the views of every single free thinking person within Thailand and throughout the world who questions and or condems the Thai governments actions. Thanks for educating us all your excellency!
We now accept without question that Thaksins ‘hired’in list includes all independent journalists who have repeatedly filmed and photographed the thai military snipering unarmed civilians, all independent human rights advocates throughout the world who condem the attrocities and of course every free thinking person on the planet who expresses revulsion towards the Thai governments extreme violence towards their own people.
We accept without question that the master of all pupeteers has ‘hired’ in the Sydney Morning Herald, BBC,CNN and the ABC to control all content.
I guess it would also be reasonable to assume the puppeteer also controls the weather, all global terrorist activities, and volcanic ash output from Europe.
May I suggest that your excellency write his next enlightened letter to the vatican to request they make room in their teachings for a mortal being with powers that are fast approaching those of the creator.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
Latest news from police hospital: 4 protesters were shots, 2 seriously injured and in operation now.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
Just watch BBC World every hour.
John Brandon, on the backgound of what I think is the White House
OK, he is not an official spokesman, but director of Asia Foundation something. He varies himself every hour, but every time it includes phrases such as “the army is having a very difficult task… these individuals are armed… they don’t belive in the political process….soldiers have a right to protect themselves.”
BBC reports 7-8 people being shot in “gun fights” already… the army is advancing.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
Reuters now reporting that barricades have been breached by armoured vehicles, and soldiers, shots heard. 1976, 1992, 2010.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
NEW INFO: so a coup took place last week; Prem’s house confiscated; Prem and his underlings tried to regain power and is furious that Gov did not get rid of Reds. Prem’s cohorts were displaced in the military hierarchy. It is not longer Abhisit and Anupong’s game show: they have no pwer to negotiate now because the coup already took place last week. That makes sense. remember Abhisit said he was going to start negotiations last week- then army came out?? Starting to kill people…
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
There are two interesting articles up now. First, a report on red war weapons from a journalist who has been covering events from inside the demonstration: http://nationsstate.blogspot.com/
Second is a defense of Thaksin in Newsweek by a free lance journalist in New York. This looks to me to be the work of Thaksin’s PR flack, but if so, it is much, much more effective than anything coming out of Abhisit’s PR machine: http://www.newsweek.com/id/238161
A chance for peace?
Daniel
Thanks for this note.
It made me laugh because this note portraits the situation that is so bizarre, so ridiculous that it’s unreal.
I sincerely hope that the Thais are realizing that there are no limits in trying to deceive them , just to keep this government in power.
It’s like saying hey, those armored vehicles, helicopters and all those soldiers deployed and guns you see are not real.
What surprises me most is the emphasis laid on the patience the government has shown with these Red shirts – doing nothing is not being patient, but rather a sign of being clueless of what to do. But again and again I hear patience – strange concept of being patient and “tolerant”.
In BKK it got bad when snipers and military intervened and the L’Ouverture was the killing of the general, the count down started then.
Bad move then – worse move now – just looking back at history no government ever got anything out of it when using brutal oppression or strategies like this. It was just a question of time until they were overthrown – really amazed that the Thai top is so naive that they actually think they could get away with it.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
Is there a link or any confirmation of Jordon’s quote from the US spokesperson? If this is a true report, it is appalling.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
if u look at the map http://tinyurl.com/26jw5fp u will see army at silom is still a long way from the stage ?500m?
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
Watching BBC World on TV, reporting live from Bangkok. Tanks from a distance.
News guy interviewing US spokesman (very serious looking): “The protesters were given a chance to negotiate… unconditionally. They neglected the deadline for a day and a half. … 60 deaths, but let us not forget that they are armed, even though with weapons which for us are parochial, but also with modern arms…” (roughly)
= go ahead Abhisit and generals
At the same time listening to/watching Carawan songs from the Rajprasong stage – at the Thai E-news link given above (thanks!)
Surreal… When will the soldiers come to the stage and replace the pua chiwit singers? Or shoot them…
Is this going to be this first televised massacre?
A chance for peace?
“a group of armed terrorist militia from within the Red Shirt protesters instigated and provoked violence against the unarmed military.”
– CRESS news report
As far as spin goes, this report is less than credible. If we are to believe this statement from CRESS, the Thai army is running around “unarmed” and under attack from “heavily armed” terrorists. Its just unfortunate that there has been no photographic evidence to support this statement.
Perhaps all of the foreign correspondents are terrorists as well, and they are all deliberately portraying the government in a bad light, maybe under orders from Osama Bin Laden himself!
Oh wait… that will be in next weeks CRESS news release.
Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Troops-push-protesters-back-from-Saladaeng-Interse-30129734.html:
At about 7 am Wednesday, troops managed to force protesters to retreat from Saladaeng Intersection to Salasin Intersection, Thai PBS reported.
Troops arrived on Silom Road in seven armoured vehicles and many military trucks at 3:30 am.
Some armoured vehicles were deployed to the Saladaeng Intersection at 5:50 am.
Troops starting firing into the air to push back protesters at about 7 am.
Troops used armoured vehicles as shields while advancing towards the protesters.