this is undisputedly not only an illegal installed but a bloody government: idiotic claims of 500 terrorists! (a good number imagined from the same hat that the rabbit came out of!); claiming solidiers defending the nation and public! claiming Reds using m79 (?) a weapon that can be complemented with other models of weapons (such as the newer M203) used only ONLY by the army; Nuttawut said last night that there are more army snipers used now than anytime in the past and its is the easiest way to kill people. See pics from Soi RangNam (ัโะัโะฝัโะฒัโะณัโโัโะัโะฉัโฃะัโโ) near Century Hotel http://thaienews.blogspot.com/2010/05/blog-post_6325.html; people killed from a snipers distance and they do not even anything in hand! even a luckless coca-cola driver got it in the head! My view is that Pro-Democracy Resistance must be strengethened as in army snipers obstructed & hindered by everyday forms of mass resistance; Abhisit and his puppet spokesperson Chula political scientist [who I had the misfortune to have once worked with in the same faculty], Panitan [long associated with right wing elements in the army] said civil war is near; well partly true as Charnwit Kasetsiri (one of the few Thai academics with remaining credibility) said, but civil war is here already here…just look outside the window. But silence since late last night. The state is determined to kill all opposition to its dictatorial rule through the bullet where cultural hegemony failed
An article by Voranai Vanijka From Bangkok Post
Put an end to this rebellion
Published: 16/05/2010 at 12:00 AM
Newspaper section: News
I’m not in a popularity contest. I’m not a two-faced diplomat playing it safe and trying to please everyone. So let me say it loud and clear: It’s a rebellion, so put an end to it _ with swiftness, severity and certainty.
The military coup in 2006 wrongly overthrew the then democratically elected prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. That was no democracy.
The coup council handed the power back to the people in 2007. The People Power Party (PPP) won the following election. That was democracy.
The PPP was banned by the Constitution Court for electoral irregularities and the parliament _ the democratically elected representatives of Thailand _ voted the Democrats into power. That was democracy.
The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) argue against the Democrat-led coalition government’s legitimacy and protest for the government to step down and call a general election.
That was democracy.
And the UDD had won.
The goals of the UDD from the very start: They wanted a House dissolution. They will have one in September. They wanted a general election. They will have one on Nov 14. All within seven months and PM Abhisit Vejjajiva’s term actually ends in January 2012, a year and a half from now.
They should be dancing in the streets, celebrating victory. Then we can all go to the voting booth in November. Peace and democracy. But no.
The truth has revealed itself. The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship is simply using democracy as a front in the interests of dictatorship.
Refusing the peaceful compromise, forsaking the democratic process, continuing to harm the country for the interests of one man, Thaksin Shinawatra, fighting against security forces of the rightful democratic government of Thailand _ that’s an uprising, it’s a rebellion.
It’s criminal. That is not democracy.
If you disagree with me and think the UDD is in the right, then let me simplify it: The next time you’re pulled over by the law in a traffic stop, you should just burn tyres, shoot slingshots at the cop and call him a dictator.
Anyone with an arrest warrant? No need to surrender. Barricade and fortify your home, fire slingshots and fire-crackers and call the law tyrannical.
Buy a lifetime membership to the Association of Anarchists. You don’t belong in a civilisation.
The UDD leaders agreed to the prime minister’s terms. But instead, Thaksin Shinawatra ordered Maj Gen Khattiya Sawasdipol to step on the brake. Because in his mind, he’s screaming: ”What about me!” ”What do I get out of this entire peace and democracy shenanigans!”
Here’s Thaksin’s dilemma. Peace and the democratic process don’t guarantee his return to power. Someone in Montenegro is kicking and screaming on the floor: ”Me! Me! Me! What about me!”
Accepting the compromise is a loss of face and may even make PM Abhisit look good in the eyes of the people, for biting the bullet and extending his hand. Thaksin Shinawatra can no longer rely on the voting booths. He can no longer rely on the democratic process.
The UDD has used democracy as a tool _ manipulated and exploited it to return Thaksin to power. Now that they are no longer confident that the democratic process will serve their interests, the UDD has transformed itself from a democratic movement into an uprising, a rebellion, a criminal organisation.
It’s worth repeating: They wanted a House dissolution. They have one in September. They wanted a general election. They have one on Nov 14. That’s democracy. Instead, they flushed democracy down the toilet.
So there’s no negotiation other than the complete and total capitulation by the government to the UDD’s every will and every whim. It’s a total victory that will embarrass the government in the eyes of the Kingdom and of the world and may possibly bury the Democrat party. That’s the game.
To Thaksin and the UDD, returning Thaksin to power is worth the 50-odd lives already lost. And that figure is bound to rise. More than 1,000 have been injured and that figure will rise. The billions of baht in economic damage. And that figure will rise.
It’s an uprising. It’s a rebellion. It’s criminal.
The UDD is screaming: ”Now! Now! Now! Prime Minister resign now!” Thaksin Shinawatra is crying: ”Me! Me! Me! I want my power back!” That’s not democracy. That’s a child that needs to be put across the lap for a good spanking.
Let me repeat it again: They wanted democracy. They had democracy. We can all go to the voting booth on Nov 14. But they flushed democracy down the toilet and chose instead, a rebellion.
And when there’s a rebellion, the government must put down the rebellion. Otherwise, we have anarchy. The law must be swift, severe and certain _ any student of criminology can tell you that.
I’ve watched television and read newspapers all this weekend. Most so-called intellectuals, academics and media talk about reconciliation. Well, that’s easy and safe _ using a thousand flowery words without saying anything worthwhile.
We reap what we sow. Again, I’m not in a popularity contest. I’m not a two-faced diplomat playing it safe and trying to please everyone. So let me say it loud and clear _ it’s a rebellion. To preserve civilisation, the government must put down the rebellion _ swift, severe and certain.
UDD members have lost their lives. This is unfortunate. It should never have happened. They should all be in our prayers and their families should be assisted in any way possible. But they’ve died in a rebellion against the rightful, democratic government of Thailand.
The security forces that have lost their lives. This is unfortunate. It should never have happened. They should all be in our prayers and their families should be assisted in any way possible.
Journalists and other innocent bystanders have lost their lives. This is unfortunate. It should never have happened. They should all be in our prayers and their families should be assisted in any way possible.
It didn’t have to come to this. It shouldn’t have come to this. But here we are on the brink of anarchy because of the pride, greed and vengefulness of one man, and of the indecisiveness, uncertainty and lack of leadership of another.
Let me repeat: We reap what we sow. It’s a rebellion. Put an end to it, swift, severe and certain. Or step down and let the rebels take over. The longer this crisis drags on, the closer we are and the deeper we will be in a state of anarchy.
The only absolute certainty in this crisis is that there is no more “Thailand” – the country has split into at least three different regions, states – almost now separate countries.
1) Pattani
2) Isaarn
3) Lanna.
“Thailand” as a centralised state is absolutely finished.
“Competition for resources is often assumed to be a main cause of conflict in both humans and other animals, says Jessica Flack at the Santa Fe Institute in New Mexico, but that might be wrong. “We find that fighting is based on memories of what other individuals did last.””
@Portman:
I would also say that millions of thais are republicans. But you dont see them – they are republicans but they still have pictures of the king and the queen in there home.
Why? Because it is suspicious in Thailand if you don’t have one. And this is dangerous. If someone doesn’t like you it’s much easier to go after you – accusing you of one of the biggest crime here in Thailand.
It took the coup to get even some very vague comments about this topic from my closest friends here. Just watch how they people react to a speech of HMK. I was in a restaurant when he spoke the last time, no one even looked at the TV. “Hey it’s your king on TV- yes yes my Pad Thai is more important”. This was the reaction.
Don’t jugde a book by its cover and never ever judge a Thai by his smile or his words.
From the Nation’s report of Abhisit’s TV speech last night:
“Abhisit also urged the public to be cautious about rumours and untrue stories as his administration remained committed to a free press.”
Who does this man think he is kidding? How can anyone ever take seriously anything he says?
– In evening, there’s a series of M-79 rockets hit at the apartment of the policeman at Lumphini Police Station, 9near Japan Embassy on Wireless Road. First attack includes two explosions, hitting right to the 4th floor of the apartment, one police officer and his wife injured and one woman (police’s wife) injured. Modern 9 TV shows video they were being carried to a pick-up truck. I’m not sure if one woman is pregnant.
Later, some superior officer came to the station and had some meeting with the chief of the station and other high rank officers, then there’s another attack of M-79, 7 explosions, I think. no casualties reported.
(I doubt if this would have anything to do with yesterday Reuters report of a police officer in this station shot his gunfire to the soldier to stop them from shooting civilian. There might be some revenge to the police officer).
Witness said he saw a black-clad man launched the grenade from Sarasin intersection (close to US Embassy).
– Around 22:30 hrs. local time, death tolls up to 24, almost 200 injured. Most are red-shirts and local residents, according to Ministry of Health report.
– About 10,000 protesters gathering at Din Daeng area, setting up a mobile stage to make a temporary camp there. (not sure about the number), as well as at Bon Kai (near Suan Lum Night Bazaar), the protester set up barricade, tire, and shot down the street lights.
– At the Rajprasong stage as I’m writing, the leaders still talking with people.
What really concerns me is the intimacy of the in-fighting: most of the participants went to the same schools, or rival schools, and met in coffee-houses and other places of distraction. The class warfare of which you speak is more closely seen as family warfare. Which makes this such a tragic situation.
LesAbbey #94.
Clearly, I can only speak for myself, but I come regularly to NM because I am struggling to understand whatโs happening in Thailand. I have lived here for only 18 months with the intention of remaining as long as possible, and I am doing what I did when I immigrated to New Zealand from the UK 37 years ago โ finding out as much as I can about my new environment. Thailandโs political upheavals are obviously an important aspect of this. For me NM is a place where the contributors seem to be much better informed than on many other forums, the level of analysis is much less superficial and the debate is more rational and far less abusive.
I have felt sympathy for the red-shirt movement for what I perceive to be huge social and economic inequalities , basically between the people around Bangkok and those in the northern parts of the country. I do my homework and recognise all the time that I could be wrong in which case my opinions will change.
I have never been a โThaksinistโ and, while I have been actively involved in various protest movements during my life, I have never supported or taken part in violent protest, although I have taken part in acts of civil disobedience and occasionally put myself at high risk of arrest. I am not a coward or a wimp, and I have no idea how I would react if I was ever called upon to defend my family or fight for my country. I just prefer the Gandhi way of satyagraha or forceful non-violence.
As the past two months of protest have progressed, I have watched the UDD make increasing use of violent language and become more involved in violent action. I can understand their gradual abandonment of peaceful protest, but I think it was badly mistaken. My support for the form of their protest has considerably dwindled, but I still strongly endorse what I currently believe are their reasons for wanting social change and for initially taking a nonโviolent action to achieve it.
However, who knows what I will think next week or next year โ as the Buddhist dharma teaches, all things are impermanent.
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Bangkok at war
There has been a lot of chat about a supposedly fake image showing red-shirt casualties. This may explain it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch6qsXep3es&feature=channel
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
by the way..
the VDO version is here.
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=123968350962277
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
Hey Nick..
hope you are well and be safe..
take care ๐
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone
I’d been missing Nick – and was wondering when, or if – he would return. This is Western, on the spot, journalism at its’ best !
Bangkok at war
this is undisputedly not only an illegal installed but a bloody government: idiotic claims of 500 terrorists! (a good number imagined from the same hat that the rabbit came out of!); claiming solidiers defending the nation and public! claiming Reds using m79 (?) a weapon that can be complemented with other models of weapons (such as the newer M203) used only ONLY by the army; Nuttawut said last night that there are more army snipers used now than anytime in the past and its is the easiest way to kill people. See pics from Soi RangNam (ัโะัโะฝัโะฒัโะณัโโัโะัโะฉัโฃะัโโ) near Century Hotel
http://thaienews.blogspot.com/2010/05/blog-post_6325.html; people killed from a snipers distance and they do not even anything in hand! even a luckless coca-cola driver got it in the head! My view is that Pro-Democracy Resistance must be strengethened as in army snipers obstructed & hindered by everyday forms of mass resistance; Abhisit and his puppet spokesperson Chula political scientist [who I had the misfortune to have once worked with in the same faculty], Panitan [long associated with right wing elements in the army] said civil war is near; well partly true as Charnwit Kasetsiri (one of the few Thai academics with remaining credibility) said, but civil war is here already here…just look outside the window. But silence since late last night. The state is determined to kill all opposition to its dictatorial rule through the bullet where cultural hegemony failed
Bangkok at war
An article by Voranai Vanijka From Bangkok Post
Put an end to this rebellion
Published: 16/05/2010 at 12:00 AM
Newspaper section: News
I’m not in a popularity contest. I’m not a two-faced diplomat playing it safe and trying to please everyone. So let me say it loud and clear: It’s a rebellion, so put an end to it _ with swiftness, severity and certainty.
The military coup in 2006 wrongly overthrew the then democratically elected prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. That was no democracy.
The coup council handed the power back to the people in 2007. The People Power Party (PPP) won the following election. That was democracy.
The PPP was banned by the Constitution Court for electoral irregularities and the parliament _ the democratically elected representatives of Thailand _ voted the Democrats into power. That was democracy.
The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) argue against the Democrat-led coalition government’s legitimacy and protest for the government to step down and call a general election.
That was democracy.
And the UDD had won.
The goals of the UDD from the very start: They wanted a House dissolution. They will have one in September. They wanted a general election. They will have one on Nov 14. All within seven months and PM Abhisit Vejjajiva’s term actually ends in January 2012, a year and a half from now.
They should be dancing in the streets, celebrating victory. Then we can all go to the voting booth in November. Peace and democracy. But no.
The truth has revealed itself. The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship is simply using democracy as a front in the interests of dictatorship.
Refusing the peaceful compromise, forsaking the democratic process, continuing to harm the country for the interests of one man, Thaksin Shinawatra, fighting against security forces of the rightful democratic government of Thailand _ that’s an uprising, it’s a rebellion.
It’s criminal. That is not democracy.
If you disagree with me and think the UDD is in the right, then let me simplify it: The next time you’re pulled over by the law in a traffic stop, you should just burn tyres, shoot slingshots at the cop and call him a dictator.
Anyone with an arrest warrant? No need to surrender. Barricade and fortify your home, fire slingshots and fire-crackers and call the law tyrannical.
Buy a lifetime membership to the Association of Anarchists. You don’t belong in a civilisation.
The UDD leaders agreed to the prime minister’s terms. But instead, Thaksin Shinawatra ordered Maj Gen Khattiya Sawasdipol to step on the brake. Because in his mind, he’s screaming: ”What about me!” ”What do I get out of this entire peace and democracy shenanigans!”
Here’s Thaksin’s dilemma. Peace and the democratic process don’t guarantee his return to power. Someone in Montenegro is kicking and screaming on the floor: ”Me! Me! Me! What about me!”
Accepting the compromise is a loss of face and may even make PM Abhisit look good in the eyes of the people, for biting the bullet and extending his hand. Thaksin Shinawatra can no longer rely on the voting booths. He can no longer rely on the democratic process.
The UDD has used democracy as a tool _ manipulated and exploited it to return Thaksin to power. Now that they are no longer confident that the democratic process will serve their interests, the UDD has transformed itself from a democratic movement into an uprising, a rebellion, a criminal organisation.
It’s worth repeating: They wanted a House dissolution. They have one in September. They wanted a general election. They have one on Nov 14. That’s democracy. Instead, they flushed democracy down the toilet.
So there’s no negotiation other than the complete and total capitulation by the government to the UDD’s every will and every whim. It’s a total victory that will embarrass the government in the eyes of the Kingdom and of the world and may possibly bury the Democrat party. That’s the game.
To Thaksin and the UDD, returning Thaksin to power is worth the 50-odd lives already lost. And that figure is bound to rise. More than 1,000 have been injured and that figure will rise. The billions of baht in economic damage. And that figure will rise.
It’s an uprising. It’s a rebellion. It’s criminal.
The UDD is screaming: ”Now! Now! Now! Prime Minister resign now!” Thaksin Shinawatra is crying: ”Me! Me! Me! I want my power back!” That’s not democracy. That’s a child that needs to be put across the lap for a good spanking.
Let me repeat it again: They wanted democracy. They had democracy. We can all go to the voting booth on Nov 14. But they flushed democracy down the toilet and chose instead, a rebellion.
And when there’s a rebellion, the government must put down the rebellion. Otherwise, we have anarchy. The law must be swift, severe and certain _ any student of criminology can tell you that.
I’ve watched television and read newspapers all this weekend. Most so-called intellectuals, academics and media talk about reconciliation. Well, that’s easy and safe _ using a thousand flowery words without saying anything worthwhile.
We reap what we sow. Again, I’m not in a popularity contest. I’m not a two-faced diplomat playing it safe and trying to please everyone. So let me say it loud and clear _ it’s a rebellion. To preserve civilisation, the government must put down the rebellion _ swift, severe and certain.
UDD members have lost their lives. This is unfortunate. It should never have happened. They should all be in our prayers and their families should be assisted in any way possible. But they’ve died in a rebellion against the rightful, democratic government of Thailand.
The security forces that have lost their lives. This is unfortunate. It should never have happened. They should all be in our prayers and their families should be assisted in any way possible.
Journalists and other innocent bystanders have lost their lives. This is unfortunate. It should never have happened. They should all be in our prayers and their families should be assisted in any way possible.
It didn’t have to come to this. It shouldn’t have come to this. But here we are on the brink of anarchy because of the pride, greed and vengefulness of one man, and of the indecisiveness, uncertainty and lack of leadership of another.
Let me repeat: We reap what we sow. It’s a rebellion. Put an end to it, swift, severe and certain. Or step down and let the rebels take over. The longer this crisis drags on, the closer we are and the deeper we will be in a state of anarchy.
[email protected]
Bangkok at war
The only absolute certainty in this crisis is that there is no more “Thailand” – the country has split into at least three different regions, states – almost now separate countries.
1) Pattani
2) Isaarn
3) Lanna.
“Thailand” as a centralised state is absolutely finished.
Bangkok at war
Army sniper in action video! reported by Dan River
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btp-wUvNXuM&feature=player_embedded
Now, it is crystal clear where the rifle bullets in people head came from except you are blind.
Bangkok at war
Monkeys.
“Competition for resources is often assumed to be a main cause of conflict in both humans and other animals, says Jessica Flack at the Santa Fe Institute in New Mexico, but that might be wrong. “We find that fighting is based on memories of what other individuals did last.””
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18898-monkeys-art-of-war-has-lessons-for-human-conflict.html
Bangkok at war
Athita at #4
Dead reds???????
I hope you posted that message in good faith.
The image has been clearly manipulated.
Bangkok at war
@Portman:
I would also say that millions of thais are republicans. But you dont see them – they are republicans but they still have pictures of the king and the queen in there home.
Why? Because it is suspicious in Thailand if you don’t have one. And this is dangerous. If someone doesn’t like you it’s much easier to go after you – accusing you of one of the biggest crime here in Thailand.
It took the coup to get even some very vague comments about this topic from my closest friends here. Just watch how they people react to a speech of HMK. I was in a restaurant when he spoke the last time, no one even looked at the TV. “Hey it’s your king on TV- yes yes my Pad Thai is more important”. This was the reaction.
Don’t jugde a book by its cover and never ever judge a Thai by his smile or his words.
Bangkok at war
From the Nation’s report of Abhisit’s TV speech last night:
“Abhisit also urged the public to be cautious about rumours and untrue stories as his administration remained committed to a free press.”
Who does this man think he is kidding? How can anyone ever take seriously anything he says?
Bangkok at war
Rageltjie de Beer @#39,
The video in your link is absolutely great. I also found this dead man shot to head (see link below)
http://www.thairath.co.th/content/pol/83190
I don’t know if he would be the victim of this shot, as there are so many snipers deployed.
Bangkok at war
Update at 1:42 a.m. local time,
– In evening, there’s a series of M-79 rockets hit at the apartment of the policeman at Lumphini Police Station, 9near Japan Embassy on Wireless Road. First attack includes two explosions, hitting right to the 4th floor of the apartment, one police officer and his wife injured and one woman (police’s wife) injured. Modern 9 TV shows video they were being carried to a pick-up truck. I’m not sure if one woman is pregnant.
Later, some superior officer came to the station and had some meeting with the chief of the station and other high rank officers, then there’s another attack of M-79, 7 explosions, I think. no casualties reported.
(I doubt if this would have anything to do with yesterday Reuters report of a police officer in this station shot his gunfire to the soldier to stop them from shooting civilian. There might be some revenge to the police officer).
Witness said he saw a black-clad man launched the grenade from Sarasin intersection (close to US Embassy).
– Around 22:30 hrs. local time, death tolls up to 24, almost 200 injured. Most are red-shirts and local residents, according to Ministry of Health report.
– About 10,000 protesters gathering at Din Daeng area, setting up a mobile stage to make a temporary camp there. (not sure about the number), as well as at Bon Kai (near Suan Lum Night Bazaar), the protester set up barricade, tire, and shot down the street lights.
– At the Rajprasong stage as I’m writing, the leaders still talking with people.
Thailand’s sideshow is over
What really concerns me is the intimacy of the in-fighting: most of the participants went to the same schools, or rival schools, and met in coffee-houses and other places of distraction. The class warfare of which you speak is more closely seen as family warfare. Which makes this such a tragic situation.
Bangkok at war
Thailand is a corrupt country – no axe to grind there – it’s a fact – so democracy here remains the last vestige of what exactly?
Bangkok at war
Absolutely Must See Video:
Even more “self-defense” from the KING’s Royal Thai Army: http://tinyurl.com/22qmuyl
Please spread this far and wide. Rumours going wild that the final crackdown is imminent. We can’t stop it now, but we can bear witness.
Good job CNN.
Reds’ fatal flaw: Thailand’s fatal flaw
[…] ัโฃะัโะซัโะตัโะัโโัโะ Redsโ fatal flaw: Thailandโs fatal flaw http://www.newmandala.org/2010/05/15/reds-fatal-flaw-thailands-fatal-flaw/ […]
Bangkok: A dangerous new phase
Erawan Centre death toll: 24
Bangkok: A dangerous new phase
LesAbbey #94.
Clearly, I can only speak for myself, but I come regularly to NM because I am struggling to understand whatโs happening in Thailand. I have lived here for only 18 months with the intention of remaining as long as possible, and I am doing what I did when I immigrated to New Zealand from the UK 37 years ago โ finding out as much as I can about my new environment. Thailandโs political upheavals are obviously an important aspect of this. For me NM is a place where the contributors seem to be much better informed than on many other forums, the level of analysis is much less superficial and the debate is more rational and far less abusive.
I have felt sympathy for the red-shirt movement for what I perceive to be huge social and economic inequalities , basically between the people around Bangkok and those in the northern parts of the country. I do my homework and recognise all the time that I could be wrong in which case my opinions will change.
I have never been a โThaksinistโ and, while I have been actively involved in various protest movements during my life, I have never supported or taken part in violent protest, although I have taken part in acts of civil disobedience and occasionally put myself at high risk of arrest. I am not a coward or a wimp, and I have no idea how I would react if I was ever called upon to defend my family or fight for my country. I just prefer the Gandhi way of satyagraha or forceful non-violence.
As the past two months of protest have progressed, I have watched the UDD make increasing use of violent language and become more involved in violent action. I can understand their gradual abandonment of peaceful protest, but I think it was badly mistaken. My support for the form of their protest has considerably dwindled, but I still strongly endorse what I currently believe are their reasons for wanting social change and for initially taking a nonโviolent action to achieve it.
However, who knows what I will think next week or next year โ as the Buddhist dharma teaches, all things are impermanent.