StanG: “Thanong has never disclosed his sources but they are definitely not that confused arabiannews editor.”
Umm… stop me if this borders on the obvious, but how would we know if he hasn’t disclosed them? And what does Thanong expect us to do without disclosure? Tug our forelocks in deference for his long history of being right on Thaksin and not at all obssessive?
5. So where were you when the PAD protest to get rid of Samak/Somchai?? they are as legitimate (maybe more so because they didnt come from the military)
Herb 45
I think the point here is to explore all opinions and eventualities, particularly those that aren’t reported by mass media. Some will consider these actions as constructive and some, like yourself; destructive and subversive. It depends on your school of thought and education and cultural background. This freedom to express opinion and discuss ideas openly (in my opinion and experience) is not commonly available without resorting to social censure at best or personal violence or civil punishment at worst.
The Burmese generals have a lot to say for their particular brand of democracy but a lot of people disagree and criticise it. There is criticism to be made of many western countries policies but this site is about SE Asia and this thread about Thailand. Your thoughts tend to paraphrase Khun Sutheps – that only Thai people can understand Thailand. Perhaps we should take his advise and stop asking questions?
To bring Hitler into the debate (and lose my argument!) – only the Nazis could understand the high purpose of “The Final Solution” so we are unqualified to debate their deeply held personal beliefs also.
1) All parties concerned must join forces to uphold the monarchy
How do you hold the integrity and sincerity of the person who starts with a sideway swipe at the “Reds”
Since he has been accusing the “Reds” of planning to topple the King and the PAD / Democrat as supporters of the King, asking for this agreement is, Abisit simply saying, – give up your “revolution ideas” that you are guilty of – then we talk.
Couldn’t get pass this first piece of crap, so won’t comment on the rest.
for an excellent retort to Abhisit’s veiled offer see Ji’s note on http://wdpress.blog.co.uk/ Rather listen to a self-proclaimed Marxist than a Thai fascist/falangist like Abhisit anyday…Right will win in the end- and [Pad Thai?] ironically Thaksin and many in Nor Por Chor are more loyal to the king than the falangists who would rather have a national dictatorship in place under Prem and his cronies, where only a few elite votes would count. Think about that.
Today Thai E-News has Giles Ji Ungpakorn’s article in response to Aphisit’s proposal. I wonder if NM could translate Giles Ji Ungpakorn’s article for our discussion.
Giles Ji thinks that the dissolution should be on the 14th July instead of 14th September 2010. He also thinks that Aphisit must be forced to resign and many more.
Sattahibo- Giles Ji Ungpakorn needs “brought to the justice system” for being a “naughty thinker”? I appreciate your tacit recognition of LM as a thought crime.
For example, Abhisit did not say that the “government would ensure that the media…”, rather he simply called upon the media to report the news freely but to avoid sowing disension. He took pains to recognize that the injustices that the red shirts are protesting are real and promised that reform would be carried out in consultation with them–he’s talking in item 2 specifically about economic justice and does not pretend that his government will “do away” with it but that any future government must continue the task with the same committment. The fifth item has to do with amendmendments to the constitution–a very contentious issue.
Setting up an independent commission is a specific demand of the red shirts, BTW.
He presented the five items as a framework for “reconcilliation”. He did not specifically say that he would call elections if his roadmap is “not interrupted”, but that he would call them if reconcilliation and peace are achieved.
The UDD is currently considering the proposals & has not rejected them out of hand.
Note:
The really worrisome thing is how reconcilliation and peace are defined and who is going to decide whether there is enough of it to call elections.
Holding elections in mid-november would require dissolving parliament absolutly no later than first October.
I don’t think we should see 14th November as a credible date. Situation remains as muddy as ever. I don’t hold my breath expecting a “positive” response from UDD. Another round of blame game is going to resume shortly. Elections are about competing ideologies. Reconciliation is just an empty word in present day Thailand, used by those interested in upholding the status quo. PM’s first factor “Prevent acts of contempt by certain media against the institution” is as vague and pontificating as it gets.
good on you abhisit! make them an offer they can refuse, then they are disgraced for being obstructionist – then crush them into red dust.
It’s about time.
Self interest of the various red shirt leaders is beginning to kick in. Who do they throw to the wolves? Giles’s Trotskyists? Khattiya? Arisman? Kwanchai?
Sattahibo: “justice system” – what justice? there is a system put in place by an illict alliance appropriated from an elected constitutionally appointed Govt (2005/6) and a post Kor Mor Chor judiciary stacked with Pro-Prem, anti-thaksin fanatics with little concern for due process, fairness or uniform standards of upholding law!
Suzie Wong, the three names you just mentioned you wish to be representatives in the national reconciliation are impossible. Gile is not so popular in Thailand; he is just a naughty thinker. Jakrapop is just Thaksin’s puppet and located in Cambodia. Khattiya is now listed as a supporter of terrorist activities. The three have to be brought to the justice system.
And David brown, please do not jump to the conclusion that Abhisit is not sincere enough in the purposed reconciliation offered yesterday. Of course, demonstrators will be forgiven because the emergency decree will be lifted, but some police and ex-police, some army men and some members of the Royal Thai Marines Corps who formed firing squads and shot both the protesters and the soldiers in 10 April will be certainly pursued under the terrorist charges.
After reading all these proposal, I found nothing new in these proposals at all. It is still a house dissolution after 9 months. Nothing, really nothing new at all! These proposals are just part of Apisit big lie to buy time out of this crisis. All other four proposals are not much different. The first is to protect the monarchy which is Apisit first priority from the beginning.
Long before the Democrat became the government, all these proposals had been used to lure Thais to elect them. All these bull shit have been used and will be used again in the future. The matter is how long before the Thai wake up and stop being fooled? Will the Thais believe in a man who uses his tongue, not his brain to fool them time and time again.
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
Interview with Thaksin: “I am speaking to you from heaven”
StanG: “Thanong has never disclosed his sources but they are definitely not that confused arabiannews editor.”
Umm… stop me if this borders on the obvious, but how would we know if he hasn’t disclosed them? And what does Thanong expect us to do without disclosure? Tug our forelocks in deference for his long history of being right on Thaksin and not at all obssessive?
Chulalongkorn Hospital – an alternative account
Herb – 45
1. Yes, I totally agreed so if that’s the case then its even impossible that the grenade be shoot from the Rama 6 statue.
2 there’s a picture wearing pink sandal which can only be find on Chula hospital, but well, you do the judgment. http://asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-pundit-blog/photo-of-the-day-soliders-in-flip-flops
3. They did apologize, however, if the picture in 2. hold true then the red is got their point as well.
4. oh well they did, back in 2008 when the PAD crash with the police http://us.asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-pundit-blog/2008/10/chula-doctors-refuse-to-treat-police.html
The doctors there refuse to treat the police
Did you even care to look around?? seriously?? or did you just want to see what you believe??? or you simply never follow any news???
5. So where were you when the PAD protest to get rid of Samak/Somchai?? they are as legitimate (maybe more so because they didnt come from the military)
5 (6?) so tell me which news media is not bias???
Chulalongkorn Hospital – an alternative account
Herb 45
I think the point here is to explore all opinions and eventualities, particularly those that aren’t reported by mass media. Some will consider these actions as constructive and some, like yourself; destructive and subversive. It depends on your school of thought and education and cultural background. This freedom to express opinion and discuss ideas openly (in my opinion and experience) is not commonly available without resorting to social censure at best or personal violence or civil punishment at worst.
The Burmese generals have a lot to say for their particular brand of democracy but a lot of people disagree and criticise it. There is criticism to be made of many western countries policies but this site is about SE Asia and this thread about Thailand. Your thoughts tend to paraphrase Khun Sutheps – that only Thai people can understand Thailand. Perhaps we should take his advise and stop asking questions?
To bring Hitler into the debate (and lose my argument!) – only the Nazis could understand the high purpose of “The Final Solution” so we are unqualified to debate their deeply held personal beliefs also.
Abhisit’s offer
1) All parties concerned must join forces to uphold the monarchy
How do you hold the integrity and sincerity of the person who starts with a sideway swipe at the “Reds”
Since he has been accusing the “Reds” of planning to topple the King and the PAD / Democrat as supporters of the King, asking for this agreement is, Abisit simply saying, – give up your “revolution ideas” that you are guilty of – then we talk.
Couldn’t get pass this first piece of crap, so won’t comment on the rest.
Saya Anak Bangsa Malaysia
Greg
Could you please contact me via email. I like to find out more regarding SABM in Australia
Abhisit’s offer
for an excellent retort to Abhisit’s veiled offer see Ji’s note on http://wdpress.blog.co.uk/ Rather listen to a self-proclaimed Marxist than a Thai fascist/falangist like Abhisit anyday…Right will win in the end- and [Pad Thai?] ironically Thaksin and many in Nor Por Chor are more loyal to the king than the falangists who would rather have a national dictatorship in place under Prem and his cronies, where only a few elite votes would count. Think about that.
Abhisit’s offer
р╕зр╕▒р╕Щр╕нр╕▒р╕Зр╕Др╕▓р╕г, р╕Юр╕др╕йр╕ар╕▓р╕Др╕б 04, 2010
р╕Др╕Щр╣Ар╕кр╕╖р╣Йр╕н р╣Бр╕Фр╕Зр╕Др╕зр╕гр╕Хр╣Ир╕нр╕гр╕нр╕Зр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╕Вр╣Йр╕нр╣Ар╕кр╕Щр╕нр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕нр╕ар╕┤р╕кр╕┤р╕Чр╕Шр╕┤р╣М
р╣Вр╕Фр╕в р╣Гр╕И р╕нр╕╢р╣Йр╕Зр╕ар╕▓р╕Бр╕гр╕Ур╣М
4 р╕Юр╕др╕йр╕ар╕▓р╕Др╕б 2553
Today Thai E-News has Giles Ji Ungpakorn’s article in response to Aphisit’s proposal. I wonder if NM could translate Giles Ji Ungpakorn’s article for our discussion.
Giles Ji thinks that the dissolution should be on the 14th July instead of 14th September 2010. He also thinks that Aphisit must be forced to resign and many more.
Abhisit’s offer
Maratjp #4 is right
offer is status quo…
0. no confirmation of free and fair full franchise elections with no appointed MPs!
1. continue to persecute lese majeste, no free, constructive discussion
2. same old Democrat (popular, buy election) policies
3. same media control
4&5. same promises, unfulfillable because of military control
Abhisit’s offer
Sattahibo- Giles Ji Ungpakorn needs “brought to the justice system” for being a “naughty thinker”? I appreciate your tacit recognition of LM as a thought crime.
Abhisit’s offer
The Nation summary poorly represents the original. I suggest people read it before commenting: http://www.komchadluek.net/detail/20100504/57826/р╕бр╕▓р╕гр╣Мр╕Др╕вр╕╖р╣Ир╕Щр╕Ыр╕гр╕нр╕Зр╕Фр╕нр╕Зр╣Ар╕ер╕╖р╕нр╕Бр╕Хр╕▒р╣Йр╕З14р╕Ю.р╕в..html
For example, Abhisit did not say that the “government would ensure that the media…”, rather he simply called upon the media to report the news freely but to avoid sowing disension. He took pains to recognize that the injustices that the red shirts are protesting are real and promised that reform would be carried out in consultation with them–he’s talking in item 2 specifically about economic justice and does not pretend that his government will “do away” with it but that any future government must continue the task with the same committment. The fifth item has to do with amendmendments to the constitution–a very contentious issue.
Setting up an independent commission is a specific demand of the red shirts, BTW.
He presented the five items as a framework for “reconcilliation”. He did not specifically say that he would call elections if his roadmap is “not interrupted”, but that he would call them if reconcilliation and peace are achieved.
The UDD is currently considering the proposals & has not rejected them out of hand.
Note:
The really worrisome thing is how reconcilliation and peace are defined and who is going to decide whether there is enough of it to call elections.
Holding elections in mid-november would require dissolving parliament absolutly no later than first October.
Abhisit’s offer
I don’t think we should see 14th November as a credible date. Situation remains as muddy as ever. I don’t hold my breath expecting a “positive” response from UDD. Another round of blame game is going to resume shortly. Elections are about competing ideologies. Reconciliation is just an empty word in present day Thailand, used by those interested in upholding the status quo. PM’s first factor “Prevent acts of contempt by certain media against the institution” is as vague and pontificating as it gets.
Abhisit’s offer
good on you abhisit! make them an offer they can refuse, then they are disgraced for being obstructionist – then crush them into red dust.
It’s about time.
Long Live the King!
Abhisit’s offer
The offer doesn’t sound sincere to the people, especially the reds and the man doesn’t look to be serious about what he said.
Reds media remains close.
Soldiers around Bangkok with War weapons.
Government’s TV still attack the demonstrators without giving them chance to explain.
Abhisit’s offer
Self interest of the various red shirt leaders is beginning to kick in. Who do they throw to the wolves? Giles’s Trotskyists? Khattiya? Arisman? Kwanchai?
Abhisit’s offer
Sattahibo: “justice system” – what justice? there is a system put in place by an illict alliance appropriated from an elected constitutionally appointed Govt (2005/6) and a post Kor Mor Chor judiciary stacked with Pro-Prem, anti-thaksin fanatics with little concern for due process, fairness or uniform standards of upholding law!
Abhisit’s offer
Suzie Wong, the three names you just mentioned you wish to be representatives in the national reconciliation are impossible. Gile is not so popular in Thailand; he is just a naughty thinker. Jakrapop is just Thaksin’s puppet and located in Cambodia. Khattiya is now listed as a supporter of terrorist activities. The three have to be brought to the justice system.
And David brown, please do not jump to the conclusion that Abhisit is not sincere enough in the purposed reconciliation offered yesterday. Of course, demonstrators will be forgiven because the emergency decree will be lifted, but some police and ex-police, some army men and some members of the Royal Thai Marines Corps who formed firing squads and shot both the protesters and the soldiers in 10 April will be certainly pursued under the terrorist charges.
Abhisit’s offer
A big hand to David Brown! What you wrote reflect the reality in Thailand.
Abhisit’s offer
Channeling Rosa Luxemburg –> Suzie Wong to the Khlong!
Abhisit’s offer
After reading all these proposal, I found nothing new in these proposals at all. It is still a house dissolution after 9 months. Nothing, really nothing new at all! These proposals are just part of Apisit big lie to buy time out of this crisis. All other four proposals are not much different. The first is to protect the monarchy which is Apisit first priority from the beginning.
Long before the Democrat became the government, all these proposals had been used to lure Thais to elect them. All these bull shit have been used and will be used again in the future. The matter is how long before the Thai wake up and stop being fooled? Will the Thais believe in a man who uses his tongue, not his brain to fool them time and time again.
Abhisit’s offer
What comes first in the list?
all these points sound like George Orwell’s newspeak that is widely used in burma.