I do not agree
why will it be good to Thailand for his excessive way, too many wife, too many scandal, his spending
most likely it will get worse once he become King
It seems our fans of bare breasted ladies are out of touch with 2 main points.
1. The year is 2010.
2. How conservative female Thais feel about running about half naked in this day and age.
Have you lived and worked in Thailand gentleman? I feel Mr Beale possible has. I think you know full well that this is not a signal of a return to the good old days of ladies running around National Geographic style.
Indeed, Princess Diana was photographed semi naked in a beach.
This is precisely my point. Her privacy was breeched. The photographer was ‘that sort’ of paparazzi.
Contrary to popular belief, Thai ladies do not spend their free time dancing naked in a pole in a bar in downtown Bangkok. Thais truly are very conservative – even in these modern times.
The footage was clearly a private moment for the Royal Family, that was was leaked, deliberately or otherwise – who knows.
This more than embarrassing invasion of the privacy of a member of the Royal Family was further disseminated not by some freelance paparazzi, but by tax payer employed emissary of the ABC, the National Broadcaster of the Australian Government.
Let me put it this way. If Channel 10 wanted to see millions of Thais lose face by having their future Queen shown naked for the sake of ratings, I would be disappointed but not surprised.
I expect more from the ABC. This is a government endorsed message to Thailand. Taxpayer funded.
The government does not represent me on this issue. Neither does Eric Campbell. I expect sensitive, balanced, ethical, intelligent journalism. This insult served up Campbell style gets no ticks in any of those boxes.
Apologies for not being able to agree.
That the institution is a tool for others to exploit power does not seem to be much altered by a change at the top. Unless serious change is forced, it won’t happen.
Buon giorno caro amico, Signore BKK Lawyer e Signore Benny! Grazie per le frasi gentili che me hai scritto.
I write this post with a heavy heart indeed. I am witnessing my once inviolable Yellow Shirt Movement degenerate into a mob of thugs and hoodlums. What has happened to our nobility? What has happened to our democratic spirit? What has happened to our sense of moral purpose? What has happened to our righteousness? The virtual disappearance of the once proud and strong Yellow Shirts has not been given any attention at all by the media. Meanwhile, the birth of the Alliance of Patriots as a counterweight to the Red Shirts is a worrying development.
I do recall that back in early 2006 when General Chamlong Srimuang joined the People’s Alliance for Democracy many of us in the Yellow Shirt Movement viewed his inclusion as ingesting hemlock. He is an opportunist devoid of scruples who relishes the limelight so as to prove publicly his royalist credentials. Hypocrite, I say. Also, being the political mentor of Thaksin Shinawatra did not endear him to many PAD advisers and strategists. Chamlong always leads from behind and never wants to accept responsibility. Now he is spewing forth brimstone and fire. He is pushing for open confrontation with the Red Shirts when he knows that such a course of action would result not in the defeat of our opponents but in the prolongation of the crisis. In fact, Chamlong has perverted the original mission of the People’s Alliance for Democracy and failed to live up to his commitments to our New Politics Party. He is a fraud who engages in meaningless rhetoric and whose megalomania knows no bounds. It is not an understatement when I declare that Chamlong IS the Pink Man of Siam.
All political struggles are akin to marathons. One must plan, organize and prepare meticulously beforehand and execute with perfection once the moment has arrived. Thai politicians today are acting like obnoxious mimes in drag. They open their mouths but I hear nothing inspiring, nothing to motivate me to take to the street, nothing to give me hope for the future. When I was a young revolutionary in Italy during the 1980s I would partake in demonstrations against the State. My comrades and I would fight literally for democracy, better tasting gelato and free espresso refills. Sometimes we would succeed, many times we would fail. But we always believed in our Cause and appealed to the spirit and passion of others for them to join our ranks. Numbers make an impression but where is the heart?
Thailand is lost not because of the circumstances the country finds itself in presently but rather because it is bereft of leaders with the vision and temperament to push the country forward and to make the difficult decisions.
That being said, to Signore BKK Lawyer and Signore Benny I dedicate the following quote:
“I offer neither pay, nor quarters, nor food; I offer only hunger, thirst, forced marches, battles and death. Let him who loves his country with his heart, and not merely with his lips, follow me”.
… In the absence of open public debate about the role of the monarchy, rumour, gossip and irreverence becomes a central resource in popular evaluations of power …
Apologies for repeating something I’ve posted before (back in January 2009) but it remains just as pertinent –
The steady diminution in public support and respect for the monarchy in the United Kingdom stands as a salutary example of what might happen if / when open debate is allowed. What interests the public is not necessarily in the public interest.
In the case of the UK, the general decline in respect for the institution of monarchy / members of the Royal Family is sometimes said to have begun in 1969 with the broadcast of the “Royal Family” documentary. This rather humdrum film showed a mass audience – for the first time – footage of the Queen and her family engaged in such activities as having a barbecue, walking dogs and watching TV. In other words, it stripped away a lot of the mystique and showed that, in fact, they were ordinary people. Once you start down that path, it’s a slippery slope, as Bagehot noted:
“There is no authentic explicit information as to what the Queen can do . . . That secrecy is, however, essential to the utility of English royalty as it now is . . . royalty is to be reverenced, and if you begin to poke about you cannot reverence it. When there is a select committee on the Queen, the charm of royalty will be gone. Its mystery is its life. We must not let in daylight upon magic.”
Bagehot was writing about the situation in the UK 150 years ago; change the date and the country, and his comments are just as relevant today.
I suspect most of the people commenting here had seen the video prior to its airing by the ABC. But can you recall what you felt the first time saw it, particularly if you were naive to the ‘real Thailand’ at the time ? As a piece of evidence to convey to ABC viewers the hypocrisy that is Thailand, it is way more effective than anything than could have been said. Seeing it was important.
I agree with Embarrassed Journalist and R. N. England on this point. Showing that clip is tacky and unnecessary. Re the CP, I see a grown up son- a grown up yet a son- who’s unsure of his gravity. To me, this is someone who genuinely doesn’t realise that filming naked women/having them going about naked in daylights is morally repulsive. This is someone who needs help, rather than condemnation.
For a very useful discussion of inequality and Gini etc. can I suggest you look at Peter Warr’s presentation (the final presentation, it includes his powerpoint slides) in the video of Thailand on the Verge.
While I don’t challenge yokkie’s comments, there are some qualifiers.
# Thailand’s income inequality according to the Gini coefficents is worse than that in India, Bangladesh, Vietnam and Indonesia
# Gini coefficients are calculated from household income data (investment income is ignored), and much depends on how these data are obtained and treated – what sample frame was used, how representative was it, were the household incomes weighted for family size etc.
Looking at the raw gini index number is useful but not entirely revealing as it leaves out the underlying causes. In the case of the United States, “part of the increasing gap between the top 30% and the bottom 70% of society is attributed to the large increase of single parent households. The large increase in immigration over the past several decades, with foreign born workers increasing from about 5% of the workforce in 1970 to over 15% in 2005, has also increased income disparities, as the majority are immigrating from poor countries, come to the US, and attempt to work their way out of poverty and into the middle class.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States
In the case of Thailand, there would be different causes to explain the .433 gini coefficient. Also it is unclear how the gini index factors in (if it does at all) the hidden sources of income such as resulting for corruption or other illegal activity that is arguably a greater problem in Thailand than in the United States. An argument could be made that such ‘black’ income is not evenly distributed and as a result the gini coefficient of .433 might be much higher.
Actually at 17:13 when Peter Jackson shows the head band, it said “р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕Ир╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕Бр╕╣р╕бр╕▓р╣Ар╕нр╕З” which roughly translated to “We didn’t get hire to come here” and not “р╕бр╕╢р╕Зр╕Чр╕│р╕нр╕░р╣Др╕гр╕Бр╣Зр╕Цр╕╣р╕Б р╕Бр╕╣р╕Чр╕│р╕нр╕░р╣Др╕гр╕Бр╣Зр╕Ьр╕┤р╕Ф” or “Whatever you do is correct and whatever I do is incorrect”, however, there is such the head band with the phase he said, but just not the one he showed.
In considering the frequent assertion, now in a letter from the Thai government that “the royal family, the monarchy, in our constitution is above politics” I suggest readers refer to an interview Prime Minister Abhisit gave Al Jazeera TV not so long ago.
There, if remember correctly, he maintained that the monarchy in Thailand “is political and shall remain so”.
Wow! That’s a big call – comparing King Bhumibol and King Chulalongkorn to Stalin and Lenin. This type of comment will surely see this site blocked from Thailand.
Interesting decision by the moderator – let’s see who acts first, the Thai authorities or the moderator.
Oliver,
Yes that was bizarrely amusing. It looked like someone had mustered their maids, gardeners, wives,daughters and aunts down there.
If only the immigration police had been on hand to check some I.D. cards.
As an impartial observer I was struck by the look of boredom on their faces and the peculiar, stage-managed crowd movement- or was it a rotation? A very poor show and sadly lacking in dynamism. I do appreciate it was hot tho. (and the shopping malls were closed)
What’s a girl to do??
According to the UN’s gini coefficient calculations Thailand has LESS income inequality than following countries in Asia: Malaysia, Hong Kong, Singapore, China, Philippines.
Thailand is only three places below the US in terms of income inequality (US scoring 40.8 whereas Thai scoring 42). Other countries which have MORE income inequality than Thailand includes Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, Turkey, and Chile.
However, the CIA’s gini coefficient numbers shows MORE income inequality in the US as compared to Thailand (US scoring 45 whereas Thailand scoring 42)
Btw, Submarine (comment #36), a lower gini coefficient means a MORE equitable distribution of wealth in a society. So when you say that Thailand’s gini coefficient is now lower than SE Asian countries once seen to be its competitors, it is a good thing rather than bad.
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Why King Vajiralongkorn will be good for Thai Democracy
I do not agree
why will it be good to Thailand for his excessive way, too many wife, too many scandal, his spending
most likely it will get worse once he become King
Eric Campbell on journalistic duty
It seems our fans of bare breasted ladies are out of touch with 2 main points.
1. The year is 2010.
2. How conservative female Thais feel about running about half naked in this day and age.
Have you lived and worked in Thailand gentleman? I feel Mr Beale possible has. I think you know full well that this is not a signal of a return to the good old days of ladies running around National Geographic style.
Indeed, Princess Diana was photographed semi naked in a beach.
This is precisely my point. Her privacy was breeched. The photographer was ‘that sort’ of paparazzi.
Contrary to popular belief, Thai ladies do not spend their free time dancing naked in a pole in a bar in downtown Bangkok. Thais truly are very conservative – even in these modern times.
The footage was clearly a private moment for the Royal Family, that was was leaked, deliberately or otherwise – who knows.
This more than embarrassing invasion of the privacy of a member of the Royal Family was further disseminated not by some freelance paparazzi, but by tax payer employed emissary of the ABC, the National Broadcaster of the Australian Government.
Let me put it this way. If Channel 10 wanted to see millions of Thais lose face by having their future Queen shown naked for the sake of ratings, I would be disappointed but not surprised.
I expect more from the ABC. This is a government endorsed message to Thailand. Taxpayer funded.
The government does not represent me on this issue. Neither does Eric Campbell. I expect sensitive, balanced, ethical, intelligent journalism. This insult served up Campbell style gets no ticks in any of those boxes.
Why King Vajiralongkorn will be good for Thai Democracy
Apologies for not being able to agree.
That the institution is a tool for others to exploit power does not seem to be much altered by a change at the top. Unless serious change is forced, it won’t happen.
Statement by students and academics at ANU
Buon giorno caro amico, Signore BKK Lawyer e Signore Benny! Grazie per le frasi gentili che me hai scritto.
I write this post with a heavy heart indeed. I am witnessing my once inviolable Yellow Shirt Movement degenerate into a mob of thugs and hoodlums. What has happened to our nobility? What has happened to our democratic spirit? What has happened to our sense of moral purpose? What has happened to our righteousness? The virtual disappearance of the once proud and strong Yellow Shirts has not been given any attention at all by the media. Meanwhile, the birth of the Alliance of Patriots as a counterweight to the Red Shirts is a worrying development.
I do recall that back in early 2006 when General Chamlong Srimuang joined the People’s Alliance for Democracy many of us in the Yellow Shirt Movement viewed his inclusion as ingesting hemlock. He is an opportunist devoid of scruples who relishes the limelight so as to prove publicly his royalist credentials. Hypocrite, I say. Also, being the political mentor of Thaksin Shinawatra did not endear him to many PAD advisers and strategists. Chamlong always leads from behind and never wants to accept responsibility. Now he is spewing forth brimstone and fire. He is pushing for open confrontation with the Red Shirts when he knows that such a course of action would result not in the defeat of our opponents but in the prolongation of the crisis. In fact, Chamlong has perverted the original mission of the People’s Alliance for Democracy and failed to live up to his commitments to our New Politics Party. He is a fraud who engages in meaningless rhetoric and whose megalomania knows no bounds. It is not an understatement when I declare that Chamlong IS the Pink Man of Siam.
All political struggles are akin to marathons. One must plan, organize and prepare meticulously beforehand and execute with perfection once the moment has arrived. Thai politicians today are acting like obnoxious mimes in drag. They open their mouths but I hear nothing inspiring, nothing to motivate me to take to the street, nothing to give me hope for the future. When I was a young revolutionary in Italy during the 1980s I would partake in demonstrations against the State. My comrades and I would fight literally for democracy, better tasting gelato and free espresso refills. Sometimes we would succeed, many times we would fail. But we always believed in our Cause and appealed to the spirit and passion of others for them to join our ranks. Numbers make an impression but where is the heart?
Thailand is lost not because of the circumstances the country finds itself in presently but rather because it is bereft of leaders with the vision and temperament to push the country forward and to make the difficult decisions.
That being said, to Signore BKK Lawyer and Signore Benny I dedicate the following quote:
“I offer neither pay, nor quarters, nor food; I offer only hunger, thirst, forced marches, battles and death. Let him who loves his country with his heart, and not merely with his lips, follow me”.
Giuseppe Garibaldi (A man of true character)
Why King Vajiralongkorn will be good for Thai Democracy
… In the absence of open public debate about the role of the monarchy, rumour, gossip and irreverence becomes a central resource in popular evaluations of power …
Apologies for repeating something I’ve posted before (back in January 2009) but it remains just as pertinent –
The steady diminution in public support and respect for the monarchy in the United Kingdom stands as a salutary example of what might happen if / when open debate is allowed. What interests the public is not necessarily in the public interest.
In the case of the UK, the general decline in respect for the institution of monarchy / members of the Royal Family is sometimes said to have begun in 1969 with the broadcast of the “Royal Family” documentary. This rather humdrum film showed a mass audience – for the first time – footage of the Queen and her family engaged in such activities as having a barbecue, walking dogs and watching TV. In other words, it stripped away a lot of the mystique and showed that, in fact, they were ordinary people. Once you start down that path, it’s a slippery slope, as Bagehot noted:
“There is no authentic explicit information as to what the Queen can do . . . That secrecy is, however, essential to the utility of English royalty as it now is . . . royalty is to be reverenced, and if you begin to poke about you cannot reverence it. When there is a select committee on the Queen, the charm of royalty will be gone. Its mystery is its life. We must not let in daylight upon magic.”
Bagehot was writing about the situation in the UK 150 years ago; change the date and the country, and his comments are just as relevant today.
Eric Campbell on journalistic duty
I suspect most of the people commenting here had seen the video prior to its airing by the ABC. But can you recall what you felt the first time saw it, particularly if you were naive to the ‘real Thailand’ at the time ? As a piece of evidence to convey to ABC viewers the hypocrisy that is Thailand, it is way more effective than anything than could have been said. Seeing it was important.
More scenes from the stand-off in Bangkok
Oliver, there was nothing spontaneous about it. The lady with the megaphone had a script that she read instructions from.
Eric Campbell on journalistic duty
I agree with Embarrassed Journalist and R. N. England on this point. Showing that clip is tacky and unnecessary. Re the CP, I see a grown up son- a grown up yet a son- who’s unsure of his gravity. To me, this is someone who genuinely doesn’t realise that filming naked women/having them going about naked in daylights is morally repulsive. This is someone who needs help, rather than condemnation.
Compassion is not a foreign nation.
Anti-pro-democracy
For a very useful discussion of inequality and Gini etc. can I suggest you look at Peter Warr’s presentation (the final presentation, it includes his powerpoint slides) in the video of Thailand on the Verge.
Anti-pro-democracy
A useful list of countries by income inequality is to be found at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality
Thailand’s Gini coefficient has been updated to the current year here:
http://www.indexmundi.com/thailand/distribution_of_family_income_gini_index.html
While I don’t challenge yokkie’s comments, there are some qualifiers.
# Thailand’s income inequality according to the Gini coefficents is worse than that in India, Bangladesh, Vietnam and Indonesia
# Gini coefficients are calculated from household income data (investment income is ignored), and much depends on how these data are obtained and treated – what sample frame was used, how representative was it, were the household incomes weighted for family size etc.
Anti-pro-democracy
Looking at the raw gini index number is useful but not entirely revealing as it leaves out the underlying causes. In the case of the United States, “part of the increasing gap between the top 30% and the bottom 70% of society is attributed to the large increase of single parent households. The large increase in immigration over the past several decades, with foreign born workers increasing from about 5% of the workforce in 1970 to over 15% in 2005, has also increased income disparities, as the majority are immigrating from poor countries, come to the US, and attempt to work their way out of poverty and into the middle class.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States
In the case of Thailand, there would be different causes to explain the .433 gini coefficient. Also it is unclear how the gini index factors in (if it does at all) the hidden sources of income such as resulting for corruption or other illegal activity that is arguably a greater problem in Thailand than in the United States. An argument could be made that such ‘black’ income is not evenly distributed and as a result the gini coefficient of .433 might be much higher.
Eric Campbell on journalistic duty
Oh yes Mr Anonymous,
I’m sure the would-be future Queen is fine with it.
Why wouldn’t she be?
Surely you jest.
Video of Thailand on the Verge
Actually at 17:13 when Peter Jackson shows the head band, it said “р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕Хр╣Йр╕нр╕Зр╕Ир╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕Бр╕╣р╕бр╕▓р╣Ар╕нр╕З” which roughly translated to “We didn’t get hire to come here” and not “р╕бр╕╢р╕Зр╕Чр╕│р╕нр╕░р╣Др╕гр╕Бр╣Зр╕Цр╕╣р╕Б р╕Бр╕╣р╕Чр╕│р╕нр╕░р╣Др╕гр╕Бр╣Зр╕Ьр╕┤р╕Ф” or “Whatever you do is correct and whatever I do is incorrect”, however, there is such the head band with the phase he said, but just not the one he showed.
Royal reds, reds, and rebel reds
ajarnjohn – you seems not to get the point of the comparison….
Why King Vajiralongkorn will be good for Thai Democracy
In considering the frequent assertion, now in a letter from the Thai government that “the royal family, the monarchy, in our constitution is above politics” I suggest readers refer to an interview Prime Minister Abhisit gave Al Jazeera TV not so long ago.
There, if remember correctly, he maintained that the monarchy in Thailand “is political and shall remain so”.
Royal reds, reds, and rebel reds
Wow! That’s a big call – comparing King Bhumibol and King Chulalongkorn to Stalin and Lenin. This type of comment will surely see this site blocked from Thailand.
Interesting decision by the moderator – let’s see who acts first, the Thai authorities or the moderator.
Why King Vajiralongkorn will be good for Thai Democracy
It certainly makes sense of Thaksin’s seemingly bizarre wooing of Vajiralongkorn.
More scenes from the stand-off in Bangkok
Oliver,
Yes that was bizarrely amusing. It looked like someone had mustered their maids, gardeners, wives,daughters and aunts down there.
If only the immigration police had been on hand to check some I.D. cards.
As an impartial observer I was struck by the look of boredom on their faces and the peculiar, stage-managed crowd movement- or was it a rotation? A very poor show and sadly lacking in dynamism. I do appreciate it was hot tho. (and the shopping malls were closed)
What’s a girl to do??
Anti-pro-democracy
According to the UN’s gini coefficient calculations Thailand has LESS income inequality than following countries in Asia: Malaysia, Hong Kong, Singapore, China, Philippines.
Thailand is only three places below the US in terms of income inequality (US scoring 40.8 whereas Thai scoring 42). Other countries which have MORE income inequality than Thailand includes Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, Turkey, and Chile.
However, the CIA’s gini coefficient numbers shows MORE income inequality in the US as compared to Thailand (US scoring 45 whereas Thailand scoring 42)
statistics from wikipedia here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality
Btw, Submarine (comment #36), a lower gini coefficient means a MORE equitable distribution of wealth in a society. So when you say that Thailand’s gini coefficient is now lower than SE Asian countries once seen to be its competitors, it is a good thing rather than bad.
Eric Campbell on journalistic duty
Well said.
I’m sure Campbell would gladly take the credit.