Over 25 years ago, Prof. Chatthip Nartsupha wrote “The Ideology of Holy Men Revolts in North East Thailand.” In this paper, he argued that the ideology of such revolts “was a primitive communal consciousness, which negated the state and attempted to establish a society of village ‘socialism’ free from state power.” I think we would be making a mistake not to consider the present revolt in light of this revolting ideology.
Yes, I remember reading that, the morning it came out. Thank you for the recollection/find. I want to say again, or imply again: I don’t think anything is changing. Thaksin used the words “tool” – and can it be too obvious to see that the shirt-colored people are tools or pieces in the chess-game? These pieces are even moving from block to block!
Oddly, this again, is maybe one of the only times I agreed with Thaksin, because I sensed the honesty of the utterance. It made a lasting impression!
Vichai N, quoting Crispin (bold faced emphasis mine):
Former left-leaning journalist and Thaksin government policy advisor, Pansak Vinyaratn, himself born to an elite banking family, has played a key behind-the-scenes role in crafting the class struggle symbolism that the UDD has mobilized since overtaking Bangkok’s high-end commercial district, according to one Thai intelligence official tracking developments. The bowtie-wearing Pansak could not be reached for comment.
This is not true. Pansak is NOT the person behind the ‘crafting’ of ‘Phrai/class struggle’ symbolism. As I wrote here once, it’s not really a secret that the person most responsible for injecting the language of ‘Phrai/class struggle’ into the Red Shirts movement is Thida Thawornset, a former CPT Central Committe member. Her lectures during the ‘Political School’, a series of seminars the Reds leadership organized for their key supporters in the provinces all over the country, which repeatedly hammered out this theme, are in fact available for download on some Red Shirts websites.
As for Pansak, as far as I know, he’s played a very, very limited role in Thaksin’s struggle during the last few years. His most noteable contribution so far, perhaps his only one, was the speech he wrote for Thaksin’s talk at the FCC in Hong Kong in early 2009. (His son was a student in one of the courses in teached last year.)
By the way, I wouldn’t describe Pansak as ‘left-leaning’ either.
Tarrin, do you think there is conflict between these two statements of yours?
What I said about the “history is not personal” is what actually happened aka, Hitler start would war (of cause there’s no other interpretation)
However, about the winner write history going to be about interpretation of history aka, Hitler start the war because he is evil (which is root is not the case at all) which the winner (the Allies) seems to paint Hitler that way after the holocaust.
Sorry if I made it sound confusing.
Don’t you think there was involvement of local provincial politicians in supplying manpower for the Red Gaur and village scouts? Wasn’t it true that Ayudhya supplied many of the people who carried out the 1976 massacre?
No, the Red Gaurs was made up of largely the tech collage’s students (who irony enough the same group and took part in the 1973 protest) the village scout actually has more of the middle-upper class joining rather than the actual villager themselves with the mix of ex-police and ex-military men. Even if there were involvement from politician, then its a very minor one, the real initiative was definitely came from ISOP
Regarding the makeup of the Red Gaur and village scouts wouldn’t you accept that it was mainly rural like the UDD as opposed to the PAD’s mainly Bangkok middle-class membership.
Like I said earlier, it was initialed by ISOP and the rural of Thailand was very political inactive then.
I do think you should remove your tinted glasses every now and then and let some daylight in.
Well, actually I took off the glasses that’s why I stand on his side of the fence because I was on your side of the fence. Are you ready to take off yours?
what’s interesting in all the pictures of the pro-government rallies is that almost everyone seems to be waving the same model of small thai flag. did all these people SPONTANEOUSLY bought each their own flag on their way to Silom? highly improbable.
compare these pictures to the ones of the pro-government rallies in Iran, it’s the same technique, everybody with their flag and ready-made banner.
I see it as an obvious proof of the high level of planning and organisation of these rallies. it has nothing to do with fed up citizens spontaneously trying to reclaim their streets.
I don’t know where to put this video clip, This is an interesting video clip that explains about who are “Khon Silom” which they clashed with the redshirts again last night.
Some of the Khon Silom siad “I am Military officer (Ku pen Taharn)” in the clip and you can see there are some of the military try to stop the police to desperse them but the military let the police go because there are many journalist there.
This is one of the Channel3 journalist’s twitter who was in the clashed between the police and “Khon Silom” last night She siad
“a military officer point gun at one of the police commander’s head ”
and
“one the police officer told me that “Khon Silom” are not regular people, they are military officer ” http://photobucket.com/albums/pp199/landoflies/thapaneeietsrichaiyam3mitionTwitter.jpg
Embarrassed Journalist@4 :
Yes – Campbell is a sensationalist, and an opportunist.
George Negus, of SBS – even worse.
Both clearly have little fundamental grasp of what is happening in Thailand – they’re suffle superficials, typical of Australian journalism in general.
But I can n’t see what the fuss is about that CP clip.
The CP has excellent taste in women. This is well-known.
The lady in question appeared bare-breasted, scantily-clad.
So what ?
In traditional South-East Asia, before Europeans arrived preaching Christian hypocrisy, women normally went about daily life bare-breasted. I can n’t see anything wrong with the CP reviving this cultural tradition. Indeed, it’s nothing more scandalous than one sees every day on Sydney’s Bondi Beach.
And even Princess Dianna – and other European Royalty – have been seen scantily-clad enjoying the sun. I wish them the best.
Frankly “Embarrassed Journalist,” if you are a journalist you need some remedial work on expression and the use of capital letters. Or are you really pulling our collective leg and making this up?
Aladdin#38 – of course one of the most interesting events during the Songkran riots (I was there), was the alleged slipping on a wet surface of a military official within Abhisit’s close coterie.
This official “slipped” – so severely he officially banged his head on a toilet seat, and died – AFTER phoning his family and others with news/ details of the Songkran crackdown, being “professionally and peacefully’ implemented by Abhisit’s military.
This dead man’s family never believed the official version of his “accidental” death.
Now why is it that so much of this reminds me so clearly of the way the mafia is famous for operating ?
Oooh dear – how shocking it must be, for the Bangkok middle class and amataya to finally see that yes indeed – the poor may be armed, and may fight back !!!
Grant I’m a fan of your writings and analysis.
My experience from spending a good deal of time with Thailands poor, mostly but not exclusively from Isaarn, mostly but not exclusively Thaksin supporters,
is that the monarchy remains highly, genuinely, deeply revered.
Ultimately this is Chulalongkorn’s legacy – of his extraordinary, brave, and ingenious struggle to free the phrai. It took three decades against incredible odds, but he won a still-living god-hero worship status among the phrai, as a result.
The current King has followed in Chulalongkorn’s footsteps – one only has to understand that sacral picture of them both together in almost every Thai taxi.
Of course you know this, but I’m giving further witness.
How can “Phrai Luang” be a basis for LM ?
My spoken Thai is not as good as before.
But unless I’m missing something, Chulalongkorn and thereby Luang, with the Phrai, are eternally wedded in popular consciousness.
To summarize some key points made in the posting above:
1. Red television looks like “communist propaganda”.
2. A perhaps unique “psychological mechanism” may make it possible for “most people in Thai culture” to support harsh punishment for lese majeste.
3. Phrai som have nothing to complain about, only phrai luang: the state, rather than the extant structure of society, is the real problem. (Sounds a bit like a birth-day speech, no?)
4. The palace has of late acted in a “gingerly”–not ashamed, not shameful, not shameless–fashion.
So, is the posting an innocent meditation on what “fascinates”?
Or is it confirmation that Network Monarchy continues to enjoy the service of dedicated foreign agents?
local hospitals st louis’ chula taking casualties + 4 dead from the dusit hotel area opposite lumpini park at the intersection of rama 4 and silom. no cameras in there at present. silom skytrain, which is not far away, seems a lot more orderly.
reported that ed shirts were firing fieworks at helicoptors and, bizarrly, released hundreds of small balloons into the grounds of chula hospital.
NOW NO LIVE FOOTAGE OF THE SITUATION, EVEN THOUGH CAMERAS WERE AND ARE THERE. TELEPHONE REPORTS WITH RECYCLED FOOTAGE TAKEN 30 MINS + AGO
cameras now onto skytrain platform – looks like the projectile hit the roof awning over one of the platforms, shattering it. I saw one foreigner being stretchered away alive with a bandaged head pursued by groups of journo’s into an ambulance. chaos!
Thanks to Dr Peter Warr for illuminating the economic context of the current crisis (Hope there is some video soon showing the stats presented). This aspect has received no attention either in the press or on NM. And yet no other analysis can explain why thousands of usually apolitical workers would get up and travel to protest in Bangkok. These people are seriously p*ssed off with their lot.
Billy D #6 asks some interesting questions about the impact of schemes started by the Dems. And I am not sure that Abhisit is completely the passive victim of the GFC that Warr suggests. Lets face it since 2006 the Thai elite could not have done a worse job of economic management (One can only speculate how Taksin would have managed the GFC?). Much more to be understood here than Warr could cover in 10 minutes.
But historically many a political crisis has been triggered by underlying economic circumstances, such as 1932….
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Royal reds, reds, and rebel reds
Over 25 years ago, Prof. Chatthip Nartsupha wrote “The Ideology of Holy Men Revolts in North East Thailand.” In this paper, he argued that the ideology of such revolts “was a primitive communal consciousness, which negated the state and attempted to establish a society of village ‘socialism’ free from state power.” I think we would be making a mistake not to consider the present revolt in light of this revolting ideology.
Eric Campbell on journalistic duty
Frankly Ralph, if my Use of capitalisation is the best You can bring to this forum, then thank you for your contribution, care and concern.
Incidentally, I have a ton of work that could use some proofing if you’d care to volunteer.
Cheers and all the Best.
Thai style chaos and the right wing backlash
To Steve – Entry #38:
Yes, I remember reading that, the morning it came out. Thank you for the recollection/find. I want to say again, or imply again: I don’t think anything is changing. Thaksin used the words “tool” – and can it be too obvious to see that the shirt-colored people are tools or pieces in the chess-game? These pieces are even moving from block to block!
Oddly, this again, is maybe one of the only times I agreed with Thaksin, because I sensed the honesty of the utterance. It made a lasting impression!
Thank you, again.
Royal reds, reds, and rebel reds
Vichai N, quoting Crispin (bold faced emphasis mine):
Former left-leaning journalist and Thaksin government policy advisor, Pansak Vinyaratn, himself born to an elite banking family, has played a key behind-the-scenes role in crafting the class struggle symbolism that the UDD has mobilized since overtaking Bangkok’s high-end commercial district, according to one Thai intelligence official tracking developments. The bowtie-wearing Pansak could not be reached for comment.
This is not true. Pansak is NOT the person behind the ‘crafting’ of ‘Phrai/class struggle’ symbolism. As I wrote here once, it’s not really a secret that the person most responsible for injecting the language of ‘Phrai/class struggle’ into the Red Shirts movement is Thida Thawornset, a former CPT Central Committe member. Her lectures during the ‘Political School’, a series of seminars the Reds leadership organized for their key supporters in the provinces all over the country, which repeatedly hammered out this theme, are in fact available for download on some Red Shirts websites.
As for Pansak, as far as I know, he’s played a very, very limited role in Thaksin’s struggle during the last few years. His most noteable contribution so far, perhaps his only one, was the speech he wrote for Thaksin’s talk at the FCC in Hong Kong in early 2009. (His son was a student in one of the courses in teached last year.)
By the way, I wouldn’t describe Pansak as ‘left-leaning’ either.
Ominous signs
Tarrin, do you think there is conflict between these two statements of yours?
What I said about the “history is not personal” is what actually happened aka, Hitler start would war (of cause there’s no other interpretation)
However, about the winner write history going to be about interpretation of history aka, Hitler start the war because he is evil (which is root is not the case at all) which the winner (the Allies) seems to paint Hitler that way after the holocaust.
Sorry if I made it sound confusing.
Don’t you think there was involvement of local provincial politicians in supplying manpower for the Red Gaur and village scouts? Wasn’t it true that Ayudhya supplied many of the people who carried out the 1976 massacre?
No, the Red Gaurs was made up of largely the tech collage’s students (who irony enough the same group and took part in the 1973 protest) the village scout actually has more of the middle-upper class joining rather than the actual villager themselves with the mix of ex-police and ex-military men. Even if there were involvement from politician, then its a very minor one, the real initiative was definitely came from ISOP
Regarding the makeup of the Red Gaur and village scouts wouldn’t you accept that it was mainly rural like the UDD as opposed to the PAD’s mainly Bangkok middle-class membership.
Like I said earlier, it was initialed by ISOP and the rural of Thailand was very political inactive then.
I do think you should remove your tinted glasses every now and then and let some daylight in.
Well, actually I took off the glasses that’s why I stand on his side of the fence because I was on your side of the fence. Are you ready to take off yours?
More scenes from the stand-off in Bangkok
what’s interesting in all the pictures of the pro-government rallies is that almost everyone seems to be waving the same model of small thai flag. did all these people SPONTANEOUSLY bought each their own flag on their way to Silom? highly improbable.
compare these pictures to the ones of the pro-government rallies in Iran, it’s the same technique, everybody with their flag and ready-made banner.
I see it as an obvious proof of the high level of planning and organisation of these rallies. it has nothing to do with fed up citizens spontaneously trying to reclaim their streets.
Scenes from Sala Daeng
I don’t know where to put this video clip, This is an interesting video clip that explains about who are “Khon Silom” which they clashed with the redshirts again last night.
Some of the Khon Silom siad “I am Military officer (Ku pen Taharn)” in the clip and you can see there are some of the military try to stop the police to desperse them but the military let the police go because there are many journalist there.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k1vpZmdMIXOjki1tVJc?start=2
This is one of the Channel3 journalist’s twitter who was in the clashed between the police and “Khon Silom” last night She siad
“a military officer point gun at one of the police commander’s head ”
and
“one the police officer told me that “Khon Silom” are not regular people, they are military officer ”
http://photobucket.com/albums/pp199/landoflies/thapaneeietsrichaiyam3mitionTwitter.jpg
Eric Campbell on journalistic duty
Embarrassed Journalist@4 :
Yes – Campbell is a sensationalist, and an opportunist.
George Negus, of SBS – even worse.
Both clearly have little fundamental grasp of what is happening in Thailand – they’re suffle superficials, typical of Australian journalism in general.
But I can n’t see what the fuss is about that CP clip.
The CP has excellent taste in women. This is well-known.
The lady in question appeared bare-breasted, scantily-clad.
So what ?
In traditional South-East Asia, before Europeans arrived preaching Christian hypocrisy, women normally went about daily life bare-breasted. I can n’t see anything wrong with the CP reviving this cultural tradition. Indeed, it’s nothing more scandalous than one sees every day on Sydney’s Bondi Beach.
And even Princess Dianna – and other European Royalty – have been seen scantily-clad enjoying the sun. I wish them the best.
Eric Campbell on journalistic duty
Frankly “Embarrassed Journalist,” if you are a journalist you need some remedial work on expression and the use of capital letters. Or are you really pulling our collective leg and making this up?
Thailand on the verge
Aladdin#38 – of course one of the most interesting events during the Songkran riots (I was there), was the alleged slipping on a wet surface of a military official within Abhisit’s close coterie.
This official “slipped” – so severely he officially banged his head on a toilet seat, and died – AFTER phoning his family and others with news/ details of the Songkran crackdown, being “professionally and peacefully’ implemented by Abhisit’s military.
This dead man’s family never believed the official version of his “accidental” death.
Now why is it that so much of this reminds me so clearly of the way the mafia is famous for operating ?
Statement by students and academics at ANU
Good to see you back too. Vichai has been covering for you
Thailand on the verge – podcast
Oooh dear – how shocking it must be, for the Bangkok middle class and amataya to finally see that yes indeed – the poor may be armed, and may fight back !!!
Scenes from Sala Daeng
>looks like ball bearings for slingshots????
Shotgun shells, on the front of a Thai soldier. Not designed for killing birds.
Royal reds, reds, and rebel reds
Grant I’m a fan of your writings and analysis.
My experience from spending a good deal of time with Thailands poor, mostly but not exclusively from Isaarn, mostly but not exclusively Thaksin supporters,
is that the monarchy remains highly, genuinely, deeply revered.
Ultimately this is Chulalongkorn’s legacy – of his extraordinary, brave, and ingenious struggle to free the phrai. It took three decades against incredible odds, but he won a still-living god-hero worship status among the phrai, as a result.
The current King has followed in Chulalongkorn’s footsteps – one only has to understand that sacral picture of them both together in almost every Thai taxi.
Of course you know this, but I’m giving further witness.
How can “Phrai Luang” be a basis for LM ?
My spoken Thai is not as good as before.
But unless I’m missing something, Chulalongkorn and thereby Luang, with the Phrai, are eternally wedded in popular consciousness.
Royal reds, reds, and rebel reds
To summarize some key points made in the posting above:
1. Red television looks like “communist propaganda”.
2. A perhaps unique “psychological mechanism” may make it possible for “most people in Thai culture” to support harsh punishment for lese majeste.
3. Phrai som have nothing to complain about, only phrai luang: the state, rather than the extant structure of society, is the real problem. (Sounds a bit like a birth-day speech, no?)
4. The palace has of late acted in a “gingerly”–not ashamed, not shameful, not shameless–fashion.
So, is the posting an innocent meditation on what “fascinates”?
Or is it confirmation that Network Monarchy continues to enjoy the service of dedicated foreign agents?
You decide.
Thailand on the verge
local hospitals st louis’ chula taking casualties + 4 dead from the dusit hotel area opposite lumpini park at the intersection of rama 4 and silom. no cameras in there at present. silom skytrain, which is not far away, seems a lot more orderly.
reported that ed shirts were firing fieworks at helicoptors and, bizarrly, released hundreds of small balloons into the grounds of chula hospital.
NOW NO LIVE FOOTAGE OF THE SITUATION, EVEN THOUGH CAMERAS WERE AND ARE THERE. TELEPHONE REPORTS WITH RECYCLED FOOTAGE TAKEN 30 MINS + AGO
Thailand on the verge
cameras now onto skytrain platform – looks like the projectile hit the roof awning over one of the platforms, shattering it. I saw one foreigner being stretchered away alive with a bandaged head pursued by groups of journo’s into an ambulance. chaos!
Thailand on the verge
eye witnesses say red shirts in silom are setting off fireworks (in celebration???) to distract the army???
Thailand on the verge
Old lady witnessed someone fire a weapon from 5th floor chula hospital into the direction of the skytrain then then jump down and run away. ???
Thailand on the verge – podcast
Thanks to Dr Peter Warr for illuminating the economic context of the current crisis (Hope there is some video soon showing the stats presented). This aspect has received no attention either in the press or on NM. And yet no other analysis can explain why thousands of usually apolitical workers would get up and travel to protest in Bangkok. These people are seriously p*ssed off with their lot.
Billy D #6 asks some interesting questions about the impact of schemes started by the Dems. And I am not sure that Abhisit is completely the passive victim of the GFC that Warr suggests. Lets face it since 2006 the Thai elite could not have done a worse job of economic management (One can only speculate how Taksin would have managed the GFC?). Much more to be understood here than Warr could cover in 10 minutes.
But historically many a political crisis has been triggered by underlying economic circumstances, such as 1932….