The Australian mass media seems to believe that Thaksin’s leading a working class revolution. In the end he might give them revolution but he, his family and his cronies will take the lion’s share and leave them with the crumbs.
When Thaksin came to power I had plenty of friends tell me “This is great. Finally we have a prime minister who’s so rich he has no need to become richer. He’s incorruptible!” One should never underestimate the power of greed. No matter how rich you are there’s plenty of room to get richer and there’s always lots of relations to keep in the manner they’d like to be accustomed.
If you’re worried about government sanctioned bloodshed, just wait until Thaksin comes back. I can see it now…time for a re-run of the Dark Influences Show…and Panthongtae can buy the rights to the telecast the 2,500 extra judicial killings at a much reduced family rate!
What a delight to hear a rant from Oz itself. We actually need more Thai people fluent enough in English to go on tirades because it does help us to understand Thailand better. It’s much more valuable to really hear from a Thai Royalist than to speculate on what they really think inside. LltK, you’ve made some good points:
1. That the monarchy in Thailand is a sacred non-rational social and political force.
2. That Thai people are capable of evolving on their terms.
3. That Euro-centric notions of rights and democracy have very little historical connection to Asian culture.
However, much of what you said was nonsense. No one here I would assume, believes our respectful countries are without sin. It’s not that we don’t look at problems in our own societies, we do. I am from the US and I’d be the first one to tell you that my country has plenty of problems and has made a lot of problems for others too. The original sin of the United States was slavery. And I could go on and on as could others from other countries. The difference is that we have the freedom to criticize our governments and that means everyone. You have no such freedom and this is wrong. And this freedom, in my opinion, is not a Eurocentric value, but a human one. On a personal level my concern for the vast majority of Thai people is a human one which transcends nation and culture.
Don’t hide behind the “this is my culture, you don’t understand” argument. You can use that in many ways, but when human suffering is involved, the world should not stand idly by. Was it the “culture” of South Africa to treat blacks the way they did? Was it “culture” when black people worked on plantations in the American South? Is it “culture” when the monarchists, military, and Bangkok elite throw out elected governments without due process?
Nations have never existed in vacuums and this is even more of the case now. We are all constituted by each other. All culture, as Edward Said argues, is borrowed. Don’t think that you can retreat from the world. The world is at the doorstep of these Red Shirt protests despite your desire to silence them.
Nations exist for their people, not their Kings.
How’s that for some neo-l iberal-petty-bourgeois thinking?
Oh, and BTW: “There are laws in Australia/Britain the US that prohibit preaching Jihad or Holy War, in the Thai context Lesse Majeste has a similar effect.” Don’t conflate terrorism with the right of people to criticize their leaders/institutions.
Foreigners trying to voice their opinions about Thailand, I like to ask;
Can’t read, write or speak Thai, do they know Thailand and Thai people enough.
Do they really study the truth or have enough balanced informations [asking 3-4 people and what about the other 60 mil.] about what’s going on?
Good intentions, with responsibility?
How would they know that their theories or the group they support will make the country better, not worse.
So you think that our neighbouring countries; Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Burma, Filipines or even Singapore practice more decent democracy?
The Monarchy so far has demonstrated the ability in solving many crisis of conflicts.
We like to listen to those with sincerity but not those journalists who were hailed as braved in daring to tackle the taboo issue for their own egos.
We, Thai, have our long history, good or bad, we always find our way in the end. If you have nonsense negative suggestions or help, then it’s all none of your business.
Moderator : Tyrell Haberkorn
Speakers : Nicholas Farrelly, Jane Ferguson, Peter Jackson, Craig Reynolds,
Andrew Walker and Peter Warr
Date && Venue : 12:00 –1:30 pm, Wednesday 21 April 2010
Coombs Lecture Theatre, Coombs Building, ANU
Whatever you do please talk about real issues and don’t sugar coat everything in academic jargon. The King has said himself that he can be criticized so take him up on it. A discussion of the future of the monarchy in Thailand, the role of the free press, lese majeste, and the abrogation of the voice of the people should be discussed.
Thailand is on the precipice, and your university, (is it Australia National University?) has a chance to become a leader in the foreign press in the political and social change underway in Thailand. Or it can be just another inane academic seminar that nobody cares about.
BTW why doesn’t NM or ANU begin an international protest online and have people from all around the world be able to sign it? Get enough signatures and then it can be hung up at these protests.
The Thai mainstream media, tv and most newspapers including the Bangkok Post and The Nation have shown themselves to be nothing short of disgraceful…………..
-with their commentators and so-called “journalists” practically begging and endlessly egging on the Thai Army to open fire on the mostly unarmed and mostly non-violent red demonstrators.
-with their open approval of the present government’s draconian censorship of all opposition tv, radio, newspapers, websites, saying absolutely nothing and raising no objection whatsoever to the Minister of Information Panitan’s recent remarks about the need prosecute people for writing and/or distributing so-called “wrong” information, irregardless of whether the information is factually correct and/or merely descriptive, including the distribution of photos and videos of actual events.
-with their absolute avoidance of the total “double-standard” in the present government’s completely one-sided and discriminatory use of its new and extreme censorship powers, ie., PAD/Yellow, ASTV, TNN and other “non-Red” voices have complete freedom to say and distribute whatever information they like, regardless of a lack of any factual basis or coincidence with actual events.
-with their total absence of any apparent memory stretching only a few months back when the PAD/Yellow group was running around Bangkok occupying and trashing Government House, shutting down Thailand’s two major airports for two weeks and even occupying the very same shopping center location where the red group is currently located. All with the near total cooperation of the Army and Police and the “group that cannot be named”.
Where are the courageous “Young Turks”? Where are the journalists with “balls” and integrity, ready to dig into the story, ready to put themselves in harm’s way in the middle of the unfolding events, ready to “tell it like it is” despite the “party line” rantings of their editor/superiors?
The comparison between the farang reporters level of risk-taking and commitment in their effort to “getting the story” and the so-called Thai journalists, hanging out in their comfy air-conditioned offices, pumping out the “party line” like a bunch of Burmese or North Korean hacks is so staggering it’s ugly, mai suay at all……..shameful, disgraceful and cowardly….no reason to worry about “losing your face” when you have “no face to start with”.
Welcome back, but I fear that Pracahtai is being blocked again. According to friends in country, if you try to access Prachatai’s English language site from within Thailand, it times out. I can access it from the USA with no problem.
Like I’ve said, NM can be a great place for dissent as most websites have been blocked. I must admit that I thought NM was blocked last night when I couldn’t connect. It’s great that this Red Shirt’s voice has been heard. We need to hear more from THE PEOPLE.
It was interesting what the FM recently said about how the monarchy should be modified to help the poor. Just more imperial paternalism. How about, get out of the way of the poor? How about, give them opportunity to advance themselves? Microcredit? OTOP? Improved health insurance?
We wouldn’t want that kind of empowerment now would we in the land of the ever so benevolent Oz.
Gosh! I just thought of another possibility. Maybe it’s a typo. Maybe he meant ‘notional’ security. Yes, that could be the explanation…ummm, …uh…what would that mean? (Sorry, no smilie this time; my ‘wanker’ smilie won’t embed on this form.)
John H #15:” ‘We consider this an issue matter of national security….’ How so? Would someone please explain.”
I think they may mean something along these lines: When somebody, or a whole group of devious, bullying, dysfunctional people has been telling outrageous lies to cover up Very Bad Behaviour for a very long time, and they’ve been getting away with it very successfully, they feel smug & secure in the belief that the world sees them as normal and of good will. But when they are suddenly found out & publicly exposed, red-handed, as it were, they are bound to feel queazy, embarrassed, INSECURE.
I’ve never heard of this in the context of NATIONAL security, however, but that’s the only possible explanation I can think of.
particularly those owners and workers in the Thai media who should feel ashamed and commit themselves to improve their own karma and the benefit of Thailand
Post Today/Bangkok Post was one of the worst media outlets in recent months. Apart from BP giving space to Suranand or Thitinan (which disappeared for several months now from local media), their roles as media have been very disappointing.
Of course, ASTV-Manager and Nation Media Group are not counted. Noone should treat them as media in the first place.
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Reflections on Eric Campbell’s royal report
Khun Tarrin,
I have answered your question, but after 24 hours, my reply is still being censured, 555.
Aussie Alumnus
The Embassy and the ABC
Free Mind#17 :
FYI: the monarchy = SIAMESE nation
security of the monarchy= national security=no current threat if the monarchy is truly “above politics”.
Thailand on the verge
look forward to seeing some outcomes of the sessions
Statement by students and academics at ANU
The Australian mass media seems to believe that Thaksin’s leading a working class revolution. In the end he might give them revolution but he, his family and his cronies will take the lion’s share and leave them with the crumbs.
When Thaksin came to power I had plenty of friends tell me “This is great. Finally we have a prime minister who’s so rich he has no need to become richer. He’s incorruptible!” One should never underestimate the power of greed. No matter how rich you are there’s plenty of room to get richer and there’s always lots of relations to keep in the manner they’d like to be accustomed.
If you’re worried about government sanctioned bloodshed, just wait until Thaksin comes back. I can see it now…time for a re-run of the Dark Influences Show…and Panthongtae can buy the rights to the telecast the 2,500 extra judicial killings at a much reduced family rate!
Reflections on Eric Campbell’s royal report
Long Live the King,
What a delight to hear a rant from Oz itself. We actually need more Thai people fluent enough in English to go on tirades because it does help us to understand Thailand better. It’s much more valuable to really hear from a Thai Royalist than to speculate on what they really think inside. LltK, you’ve made some good points:
1. That the monarchy in Thailand is a sacred non-rational social and political force.
2. That Thai people are capable of evolving on their terms.
3. That Euro-centric notions of rights and democracy have very little historical connection to Asian culture.
However, much of what you said was nonsense. No one here I would assume, believes our respectful countries are without sin. It’s not that we don’t look at problems in our own societies, we do. I am from the US and I’d be the first one to tell you that my country has plenty of problems and has made a lot of problems for others too. The original sin of the United States was slavery. And I could go on and on as could others from other countries. The difference is that we have the freedom to criticize our governments and that means everyone. You have no such freedom and this is wrong. And this freedom, in my opinion, is not a Eurocentric value, but a human one. On a personal level my concern for the vast majority of Thai people is a human one which transcends nation and culture.
Don’t hide behind the “this is my culture, you don’t understand” argument. You can use that in many ways, but when human suffering is involved, the world should not stand idly by. Was it the “culture” of South Africa to treat blacks the way they did? Was it “culture” when black people worked on plantations in the American South? Is it “culture” when the monarchists, military, and Bangkok elite throw out elected governments without due process?
Nations have never existed in vacuums and this is even more of the case now. We are all constituted by each other. All culture, as Edward Said argues, is borrowed. Don’t think that you can retreat from the world. The world is at the doorstep of these Red Shirt protests despite your desire to silence them.
Nations exist for their people, not their Kings.
How’s that for some neo-l iberal-petty-bourgeois thinking?
Oh, and BTW: “There are laws in Australia/Britain the US that prohibit preaching Jihad or Holy War, in the Thai context Lesse Majeste has a similar effect.” Don’t conflate terrorism with the right of people to criticize their leaders/institutions.
Long Live the People!
ABC TV on Thai politics
Disregard what jothestrong?, very democratic. cause you only what to hear the agreements.
ABC TV on Thai politics
Foreigners trying to voice their opinions about Thailand, I like to ask;
Can’t read, write or speak Thai, do they know Thailand and Thai people enough.
Do they really study the truth or have enough balanced informations [asking 3-4 people and what about the other 60 mil.] about what’s going on?
Good intentions, with responsibility?
How would they know that their theories or the group they support will make the country better, not worse.
So you think that our neighbouring countries; Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Burma, Filipines or even Singapore practice more decent democracy?
The Monarchy so far has demonstrated the ability in solving many crisis of conflicts.
We like to listen to those with sincerity but not those journalists who were hailed as braved in daring to tackle the taboo issue for their own egos.
We, Thai, have our long history, good or bad, we always find our way in the end. If you have nonsense negative suggestions or help, then it’s all none of your business.
I bet you take Harry Nicolaides’ case personally.
Thailand on the verge
What a waste of time . . . all foreigners (Australians??) claiming expertise on Thailand issues . . . but all just making educated/uneducated guesses.
NM back!
I clicked on your upcoming event:
Moderator : Tyrell Haberkorn
Speakers : Nicholas Farrelly, Jane Ferguson, Peter Jackson, Craig Reynolds,
Andrew Walker and Peter Warr
Date && Venue : 12:00 –1:30 pm, Wednesday 21 April 2010
Coombs Lecture Theatre, Coombs Building, ANU
Not even a token Thai?
An open letter to the Thai media
The Bangkok Post is a beacon of light when compared with the televised media. Like North Korea with skin whitening adverts. Hopeless propaganda.
Thailand on the verge
Whatever you do please talk about real issues and don’t sugar coat everything in academic jargon. The King has said himself that he can be criticized so take him up on it. A discussion of the future of the monarchy in Thailand, the role of the free press, lese majeste, and the abrogation of the voice of the people should be discussed.
Thailand is on the precipice, and your university, (is it Australia National University?) has a chance to become a leader in the foreign press in the political and social change underway in Thailand. Or it can be just another inane academic seminar that nobody cares about.
BTW why doesn’t NM or ANU begin an international protest online and have people from all around the world be able to sign it? Get enough signatures and then it can be hung up at these protests.
Thailand on the verge
Sounds interesting. Shame no Thai names in your line up.
An open letter to the Thai media
The Thai mainstream media, tv and most newspapers including the Bangkok Post and The Nation have shown themselves to be nothing short of disgraceful…………..
-with their commentators and so-called “journalists” practically begging and endlessly egging on the Thai Army to open fire on the mostly unarmed and mostly non-violent red demonstrators.
-with their open approval of the present government’s draconian censorship of all opposition tv, radio, newspapers, websites, saying absolutely nothing and raising no objection whatsoever to the Minister of Information Panitan’s recent remarks about the need prosecute people for writing and/or distributing so-called “wrong” information, irregardless of whether the information is factually correct and/or merely descriptive, including the distribution of photos and videos of actual events.
-with their absolute avoidance of the total “double-standard” in the present government’s completely one-sided and discriminatory use of its new and extreme censorship powers, ie., PAD/Yellow, ASTV, TNN and other “non-Red” voices have complete freedom to say and distribute whatever information they like, regardless of a lack of any factual basis or coincidence with actual events.
-with their total absence of any apparent memory stretching only a few months back when the PAD/Yellow group was running around Bangkok occupying and trashing Government House, shutting down Thailand’s two major airports for two weeks and even occupying the very same shopping center location where the red group is currently located. All with the near total cooperation of the Army and Police and the “group that cannot be named”.
Where are the courageous “Young Turks”? Where are the journalists with “balls” and integrity, ready to dig into the story, ready to put themselves in harm’s way in the middle of the unfolding events, ready to “tell it like it is” despite the “party line” rantings of their editor/superiors?
The comparison between the farang reporters level of risk-taking and commitment in their effort to “getting the story” and the so-called Thai journalists, hanging out in their comfy air-conditioned offices, pumping out the “party line” like a bunch of Burmese or North Korean hacks is so staggering it’s ugly, mai suay at all……..shameful, disgraceful and cowardly….no reason to worry about “losing your face” when you have “no face to start with”.
NM back!
Welcome back, but I fear that Pracahtai is being blocked again. According to friends in country, if you try to access Prachatai’s English language site from within Thailand, it times out. I can access it from the USA with no problem.
http://www.prachatai.org
An open letter to the Thai media
Like I’ve said, NM can be a great place for dissent as most websites have been blocked. I must admit that I thought NM was blocked last night when I couldn’t connect. It’s great that this Red Shirt’s voice has been heard. We need to hear more from THE PEOPLE.
It was interesting what the FM recently said about how the monarchy should be modified to help the poor. Just more imperial paternalism. How about, get out of the way of the poor? How about, give them opportunity to advance themselves? Microcredit? OTOP? Improved health insurance?
We wouldn’t want that kind of empowerment now would we in the land of the ever so benevolent Oz.
The Embassy and the ABC
Gosh! I just thought of another possibility. Maybe it’s a typo. Maybe he meant ‘notional’ security. Yes, that could be the explanation…ummm, …uh…what would that mean? (Sorry, no smilie this time; my ‘wanker’ smilie won’t embed on this form.)
An open letter to the Thai media
[…] #856 (permalink) I dag, 10:52 An open letter to the Thai media […]
The Embassy and the ABC
John H #15:” ‘We consider this an issue matter of national security….’ How so? Would someone please explain.”
I think they may mean something along these lines: When somebody, or a whole group of devious, bullying, dysfunctional people has been telling outrageous lies to cover up Very Bad Behaviour for a very long time, and they’ve been getting away with it very successfully, they feel smug & secure in the belief that the world sees them as normal and of good will. But when they are suddenly found out & publicly exposed, red-handed, as it were, they are bound to feel queazy, embarrassed, INSECURE.
I’ve never heard of this in the context of NATIONAL security, however, but that’s the only possible explanation I can think of.
I hope this helps. 😉
An open letter to the Thai media
great statement
hopefully read and understood by many Thai people
particularly those owners and workers in the Thai media who should feel ashamed and commit themselves to improve their own karma and the benefit of Thailand
An open letter to the Thai media
Post Today/Bangkok Post was one of the worst media outlets in recent months. Apart from BP giving space to Suranand or Thitinan (which disappeared for several months now from local media), their roles as media have been very disappointing.
Of course, ASTV-Manager and Nation Media Group are not counted. Noone should treat them as media in the first place.