Fortunately i was during the two battles at the “wrong” place. When the heavy fighting took place in Khok Wua i was at Dinso Road, and walked over to Khok Wua just before the fighting began at Dinso. When i got back to Dinso, maybe last round of sniper fire passed when i was hiding behind the tanks, and that came clearly from the direction of the school.
Looking at the videos i am not too unhappy at all that i missed the heavy fighting. I do not want to become news – i want to continue telling the story.
Regarding the white wall: it looks like it. Looking at it from the video it is a bit difficult to see though, the firing could come from the Red Shirt side, trying to eliminate a possible sniper.
There is of course more to come, but don’t ask me when. I am running around like mad trying to be where things are happening, and just can’t find the time to write things down properly. So far i have been at most interesting events, including the clash at ThaiCom and the parliament incursion, etc.
I keep notes, and of course take photos.
@Steve: I agree that this is the key task: establishing the exact facts about that first grenade attack. Because whatever came after that can hardly be called a surprise when you use soldiers and not riot police to disperse a crowd. After all, soldiers are usually trained to shoot to kill, and not to control a mob by non-violent means.
From what i’ve read and heard so far, the military stuck to rubber bullets until their command staff (Col. Romklao) got hit directly by a grenade. But this is exactly what needs to be established. Whether or not they used lethal force before that attack already.
fist comment:
” Left Building :
– 3.00 Sniper #1 (3rd room left, under the rooftop)
– 3.03 Sniper #2 (2nd room left, rooftop)
– 3.36 Sniper #3 (1st room left, rooftop)
– 3.37 Sniper #2 fires again
Notice the soundя╗┐ of the impacts that coincides with the shots on the last 2.”
small correction, these are not tanks, they are armored troup carriers. i went there last night and it’s surreal. you know these things have happened in your city, but when you see the havocked vehicles it gets much more real. also you understand more about the videos and the locations.
Quite right. There’s a possibility. But it’s too soon to comment. Let’s wait until the future Left, UDDs, found the way to form their “real” party. Whatever, I’m just happy that, at last, Thais will learn to fight by ideas. Your prophecy might come true; but spare your thought to the fact that most implementers were not talkers.
this video was posted by author only today, recorded from the cover.
I won’t be surprised that it’ll be taken off pretty soon.
it shows soldiers repeatedly beating fallen protester, saying “I’ll shoot you m*f* ! ” author claims that this video was never seen anywhere before, because he has recorded it himself. also later soldiers seen shooting directly at protesters (rifles in horizontal position)
this rather reminds of old footages of 6 Oct 1976 massacre of studenst at Thammasat Uni (full 2+ hours version here – see parts 2-8 in related vdos; there are also 8 vdos of 14 October 1973 events)
R. N. England (38) – what you suggest is possible and has a logic to it, but I wasn’t looking that far ahead. I know there are people in the Democrats who have no great love for the monarchy. But so far I have not heard or read any systematic proposal from them along the lines you have described above (for obvious reasons). In fact, the kind of constitutional (ie. powerless) monarchy you are talking about seems to be exactly the thing they are fighting to prevent from happening. I can’t see that this kind of transformation in the relationship between the government and the monarchy would be carried out by the Democrats. Also, I think that “getting rid of” the network around the monarchy (especially the Privy Council) will not be the work of any new king but a political party or movement with mass support.
It’s possible that the Democrats might follow the fate of Golkar in Indonesia after Reformasi, but I still think it’s much too difficult to speculate that far into the future.
Not directed at Nick but, at some point, I hope to see someone produce a clear map showing who was where at the start of the shooting/grenade attacks – together with some kind of time-line of a] what is now known to have happened and b] said to have happened. A tall order, I know…..
Nick, you say: “….. Sattriwitthaya School, where snipers were located during the battle”. I’ve seen numerous non-location-specific claims about high-up snipers made elsewhere and one other reference to them mentioning the school, but is this now properly regarded as an established fact?
Picking up on the final part of MediaWar’s post 118…..
Tucked away away at the end of a report* (health warning – it’s in The Nation) on the death by shooting of a Dusit zoo employee is this:
“In a separate interview, Bangkok Erawan Centre Dr.Pongphet Kamjornkitjakarn said Mana [the zoo employee] appeared on the fatality list, but the cause of death is pending the Dusit Police Station’s investigation.
A source at the centre noted that the identification process is quite complicated. Among casualties believed to be the red-shirt demonstrators were soldiers in disguise. For a reason, they were identified as protesters. Meanwhile, some protesters do not carry the identification cards.”
If the part I have bold-emphasised is to be taken at face value (allowing for the fractured English), then the hospitals are likely to be a major source of crucial information – not only as to the nature of the wounds but also what kind of ID was found on the bodies….. if that information is allowed to come out.
I believe the sleight of hand the powers that be are playing is to make you believe it is the king they also love but in face they have you in their hands and your love is being abused for their purposes. Do some more reading and talking to others with a different perspective and then review whether it is really the king you love or an image of him that has been built to keep you compliant, out of the way and supportive of all that is wrong with Thailand. That is, you are being conditioned to do your part.
This thing about loving the king is being treated almost as if a justification for existence, a reason for being Thai. It is as if somehow you are not Thai or should not be Thai or should not have any legitimacy unless you toe the line.
No one is asking you to stop your love, honest or not. All others want is the chance to exercise their legitimate and god-given rights to express honest opinions without getting put into prison. They don’t need to be ordered what to think, believe or do, or to have access to important and valid information cut off by powerful communist-style state machinery.
Kasit mentioned “Everything is coming out in the open..” in regards to the role of the monarchy. What way does this contrast with MICT’s recent successes?
At a press conference, redshirt leader Natthawut Saikua also accused Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva of planning an operation like the one used on October 6, 1976, when protesters were surrounded and killed. [MW : that time brutal assault on Thammasat Uni campus was also prepared by giant propaganda that “terrorists” are hiding there]
He said Abhisit claimed there were terrorists among the protesters and was inciting hatred between the red shirts and the public by accusing the movement of wanting to overthrow the country’s highest institution.
Natthawut added that the spirits of dictators like Field Marshal Thanom Kittikhajorn and Field Marshal Prapas Charusathien had probably possessed Abhisit.
The redshirt leader then presented Manop to members of the media, saying that the redshirt guard had seized weapons from soldiers and was taking them over to display on the Phan Fa stage – not the Khok Wua intersection or the Satri Witthaya School intersection as alleged.
Manop is that “man in black” branded as terrorist whose photo was posted by Nation & Bkk Post.
As as far as forensics, as we noted earlier-what came out so far is accidentally released and in the future, as we also noted how the yellow press is censoring and twisting it, this also indicates it will most likely be twisted as well.
Why did Kasit mention the need to revamp the role of monarchy?
Study who he was allied with before he came to be FM- I would not be surprised at all if the future PAD government, with Kasit on the cabinet, will be the one removing the political meddling of monarchy in politics and its association with the military. History has shown us that sometimes the (ultra) rights turned out to be more effective implementers.
“Even the red-shirted anti-government protesters who are presently demonstrating in the streets of Bangkok and who are often criticised by their opponents as a republican fifth column, halt their protests twice a day, at 8am and 6pm, to stand at attention and listen to the royal anthem as it plays over the city-wide public address system.”
Shouldn’t that be the “national anthem”? In which case there’s nothing unusual about the practise.
SAIS website has the audio now online at http://www.sais-jhu.edu/news-and-events/index.htm and indicates the video will be forthcoming. Hopefully someone transcripted the entire speech. I frankly have little hope of much coming our of interpretations of past remarks by Kasit or Abhisit given the actual on the ground moves against freedom in Thailand. Talk the talk, but walk the walk? Thais have not been overly endowed in that area.
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Mourning and defiance
“Steve”:
Fortunately i was during the two battles at the “wrong” place. When the heavy fighting took place in Khok Wua i was at Dinso Road, and walked over to Khok Wua just before the fighting began at Dinso. When i got back to Dinso, maybe last round of sniper fire passed when i was hiding behind the tanks, and that came clearly from the direction of the school.
Looking at the videos i am not too unhappy at all that i missed the heavy fighting. I do not want to become news – i want to continue telling the story.
Regarding the white wall: it looks like it. Looking at it from the video it is a bit difficult to see though, the firing could come from the Red Shirt side, trying to eliminate a possible sniper.
There is of course more to come, but don’t ask me when. I am running around like mad trying to be where things are happening, and just can’t find the time to write things down properly. So far i have been at most interesting events, including the clash at ThaiCom and the parliament incursion, etc.
I keep notes, and of course take photos.
Mourning and defiance
@Nick: Danke f├╝r die Berichterstattung!
@Steve: I agree that this is the key task: establishing the exact facts about that first grenade attack. Because whatever came after that can hardly be called a surprise when you use soldiers and not riot police to disperse a crowd. After all, soldiers are usually trained to shoot to kill, and not to control a mob by non-violent means.
From what i’ve read and heard so far, the military stuck to rubber bullets until their command staff (Col. Romklao) got hit directly by a grenade. But this is exactly what needs to be established. Whether or not they used lethal force before that attack already.
Mourning and defiance
you can see the sniper location very clear on this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8X1rRxHjtE
fist comment:
” Left Building :
– 3.00 Sniper #1 (3rd room left, under the rooftop)
– 3.03 Sniper #2 (2nd room left, rooftop)
– 3.36 Sniper #3 (1st room left, rooftop)
– 3.37 Sniper #2 fires again
Notice the soundя╗┐ of the impacts that coincides with the shots on the last 2.”
small correction, these are not tanks, they are armored troup carriers. i went there last night and it’s surreal. you know these things have happened in your city, but when you see the havocked vehicles it gets much more real. also you understand more about the videos and the locations.
Kasit – role of the monarchy may be revamped
AnonC (39)
Quite right. There’s a possibility. But it’s too soon to comment. Let’s wait until the future Left, UDDs, found the way to form their “real” party. Whatever, I’m just happy that, at last, Thais will learn to fight by ideas. Your prophecy might come true; but spare your thought to the fact that most implementers were not talkers.
AnonC, with unboring mind– worth my sentence.
War at Khao San
this video was posted by author only today, recorded from the cover.
I won’t be surprised that it’ll be taken off pretty soon.
it shows soldiers repeatedly beating fallen protester, saying “I’ll shoot you m*f* ! ” author claims that this video was never seen anywhere before, because he has recorded it himself. also later soldiers seen shooting directly at protesters (rifles in horizontal position)
this rather reminds of old footages of 6 Oct 1976 massacre of studenst at Thammasat Uni (full 2+ hours version here – see parts 2-8 in related vdos; there are also 8 vdos of 14 October 1973 events)
Kasit – role of the monarchy may be revamped
R. N. England (38) – what you suggest is possible and has a logic to it, but I wasn’t looking that far ahead. I know there are people in the Democrats who have no great love for the monarchy. But so far I have not heard or read any systematic proposal from them along the lines you have described above (for obvious reasons). In fact, the kind of constitutional (ie. powerless) monarchy you are talking about seems to be exactly the thing they are fighting to prevent from happening. I can’t see that this kind of transformation in the relationship between the government and the monarchy would be carried out by the Democrats. Also, I think that “getting rid of” the network around the monarchy (especially the Privy Council) will not be the work of any new king but a political party or movement with mass support.
It’s possible that the Democrats might follow the fate of Golkar in Indonesia after Reformasi, but I still think it’s much too difficult to speculate that far into the future.
Mourning and defiance
Not directed at Nick but, at some point, I hope to see someone produce a clear map showing who was where at the start of the shooting/grenade attacks – together with some kind of time-line of a] what is now known to have happened and b] said to have happened. A tall order, I know…..
Nick, you say: “….. Sattriwitthaya School, where snipers were located during the battle”. I’ve seen numerous non-location-specific claims about high-up snipers made elsewhere and one other reference to them mentioning the school, but is this now properly regarded as an established fact?
The window in the white wall peppered with bullet holes looks to be the same one which features in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY7OafG9Src&feature=channel . Is it?
BTW thank you, Nick, for what you have posted. Is there more to come?
Statement by students and academics at ANU
Why stop at the water’s edge? Redraft it including a statement supporting the Thai FM:
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Minister-Unprecedented-Call-t355955.html
War at Khao San
Picking up on the final part of MediaWar’s post 118…..
Tucked away away at the end of a report* (health warning – it’s in The Nation) on the death by shooting of a Dusit zoo employee is this:
“In a separate interview, Bangkok Erawan Centre Dr.Pongphet Kamjornkitjakarn said Mana [the zoo employee] appeared on the fatality list, but the cause of death is pending the Dusit Police Station’s investigation.
A source at the centre noted that the identification process is quite complicated. Among casualties believed to be the red-shirt demonstrators were soldiers in disguise. For a reason, they were identified as protesters. Meanwhile, some protesters do not carry the identification cards.”
If the part I have bold-emphasised is to be taken at face value (allowing for the fractured English), then the hospitals are likely to be a major source of crucial information – not only as to the nature of the wounds but also what kind of ID was found on the bodies….. if that information is allowed to come out.
* http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/04/15/national/Keeper-shot-dead-at-zoo-believed-a-victim-of-polit-30127197.html
Mourning and defiance
RIP democracy…. you will be missed..
The King Never Smiles?
I believe the sleight of hand the powers that be are playing is to make you believe it is the king they also love but in face they have you in their hands and your love is being abused for their purposes. Do some more reading and talking to others with a different perspective and then review whether it is really the king you love or an image of him that has been built to keep you compliant, out of the way and supportive of all that is wrong with Thailand. That is, you are being conditioned to do your part.
This thing about loving the king is being treated almost as if a justification for existence, a reason for being Thai. It is as if somehow you are not Thai or should not be Thai or should not have any legitimacy unless you toe the line.
No one is asking you to stop your love, honest or not. All others want is the chance to exercise their legitimate and god-given rights to express honest opinions without getting put into prison. They don’t need to be ordered what to think, believe or do, or to have access to important and valid information cut off by powerful communist-style state machinery.
Mourning and defiance
gosh… thanks Nick very much for being our objective proxy on site
Kasit – role of the monarchy may be revamped
And perhaps the bigger story is not the role of the monarchy per se but instead the big guys behind who are using it for their own ends.
Kasit – role of the monarchy may be revamped
Kasit mentioned “Everything is coming out in the open..” in regards to the role of the monarchy. What way does this contrast with MICT’s recent successes?
Johnston on Thailand’s royal taboo
It’s our national anthem. Not the royal anthem!!!
War at Khao San
few more stories related to divide in Thai army :
Reuters : ANALYSIS : Thai military rifts spilling dangerously into open
(looks like this report has nothing new, merely summing up everything already said by other news agencies)
Bkk Post : Military admits firing at reds
Only single shots fired to minimize casualties
Nation’s article : Pictured man [in black] clarifies his position
Manop is that “man in black” branded as terrorist whose photo was posted by Nation & Bkk Post.
from another blog :
Making sence out of the government terrorist story
Kasit – role of the monarchy may be revamped
Why did Kasit mention the need to revamp the role of monarchy?
Study who he was allied with before he came to be FM- I would not be surprised at all if the future PAD government, with Kasit on the cabinet, will be the one removing the political meddling of monarchy in politics and its association with the military. History has shown us that sometimes the (ultra) rights turned out to be more effective implementers.
Johnston on Thailand’s royal taboo
http://www.sais-jhu.edu/news-and-events/index.htm
This is the URL for Kasit’s speech as recorded live. Video is due soon.
Johnston on Thailand’s royal taboo
“Even the red-shirted anti-government protesters who are presently demonstrating in the streets of Bangkok and who are often criticised by their opponents as a republican fifth column, halt their protests twice a day, at 8am and 6pm, to stand at attention and listen to the royal anthem as it plays over the city-wide public address system.”
Shouldn’t that be the “national anthem”? In which case there’s nothing unusual about the practise.
Johnston on Thailand’s royal taboo
SAIS website has the audio now online at http://www.sais-jhu.edu/news-and-events/index.htm and indicates the video will be forthcoming. Hopefully someone transcripted the entire speech. I frankly have little hope of much coming our of interpretations of past remarks by Kasit or Abhisit given the actual on the ground moves against freedom in Thailand. Talk the talk, but walk the walk? Thais have not been overly endowed in that area.