Its amazing how those in Bangkok always get back to Taksin. It should be obvious even to ‘blind freddy’ that it more about the legitimate rights that all Thais should have, not just a few from the rich elite, isolated in Bangkok. The common theme I have encountered from redshirt supporters is a belief that they have been disenfranchised and are regarded as stupid buffaloes by those in Bangkok. But the Bangkok view has not been my experience – and as I am a university professor I have some credentials for judging this. A lack of education due to the failure of the central government to provide reasonable standards of education for all is more to blame.
Banphai. It’s the uncorked bottle syndrome. It is natural for people to have strong opinions, rather than just doing what they are told to do by smug others. That said, I’m sure that smug Mr. Thaksin has been deliberately shaking the bottle for his own ends. Let’s hope it hits the greedy manipulator full force in his sneering face.
@anthapan believe it or not the thing I called history and you call fairy tales does not come conveniently from sources from one side. Let me tell you a very strange story, I happened to stumble upon a book ( in the land of fairy tales where no contradicting views are allowed) that claim to say that our history is based on fiction not facts. I found it very interesting hence finished the whole book in a night. The book tried to prove the point that our history was made up so along the way many facts such as how the often this land had been saved by courageous rulers whose decedents made up of our royalists. I guess truths are truths no matter how hard you want to hide them. Someone fought for this land, that’s much I know. Should you not be grateful for that? If not for the blood that was shed, we wouldn’t be having the luxury to discuss about this here and now. The irony is that I was not impressed by the fairy tales until I read this book which opened my eyes. I guess you must want to know who write the book. It was written by one of the red academic army Reangyos Jantharakiri (р╣Ар╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕Зр╕вр╕и р╕Ир╕▒р╕Щр╕Чр╕гр╕Др╕╡р╕гр╕╡).
Elite of Elite! I don’t believe in kharma when it is intentionally imposed on me as a means of social repression. I do, however, have a strong belief in the remarkably very similar idea of “What goes around, comes around”. And I will also enjoy the spectacle of watching the poo-yais and fake prais crash & burn from their own monumental stupidity. The shit is likely to hit the fan pretty soon, but I am almost certain that those who have long conspired to profit from the succession are going to wish they had stayed at home and taken up knitting as a more profitable hobby. Enjoy!
What a hoot Banrachawong! I guess what you really mean is that your own brand of traditional pollution doesn’t really work like it used to.
The expats who live here have absolutely no power at all to shape local people’s thinking. So be it! This is not our country. But we would be complacent if we didn’t have an opinion on those who oppress us. I count both Thaksin and Sonthi lim as oppressive, for instance. There are many others, right down to the bureaucratic stamp-wielding sadists in government offices. You would have to live as an expat yourself to know precisely how powerless we are, when we can’t just afford to buy ourselves out of trouble. We are largely treated with contempt because we don’t fit neatly into people’s unreal ‘free lunch’ expectations. Most of the time we are barely able to protect ourselves against the predators in local society. We may have a bit more money than say a lowly civil servant, but we have even fewer rights because of the paranoia of those who continue to want to run this country as a personal piggy-bank.
Some real pollution has come from the superpowers over the last century, but you poo-yais are all too keen to live off their largesse when the money starts flying. If Thailand made a mistake, it was because of the foolishness of poo-yais in believing they could continue to control all the strings of power, without actually making any real effort.
Stop blaming it on others and start realizing your own numerous mistakes.
I presume to speak for most of the non- Thais who contribute to this blog, in saying that we wish that the people of Thailand were able to live as well as we do. We live under laws made by our own elected representatives. Many of us live in true constitutional monarchies, where the monarch or the monarch’s deputy must act on the advice of a cabinet, appointed from our representatives, by a leader elected by them. We realise how lucky we are, not to be enslaved by a club of whispering, slithering courtiers who get their positions by well directed grovelling, and their power by corrupting the army and the courts.
I never thought that my first innocent posting would generate such a “vigorous debate” afterward. Now that hundreds of thousands of red shirts are roaming Rajprasong and Phanfa/Rajdamnern areas while Abhisit has no clue on how to deal with the situation (yesterday the court rejected his request to issue an injunction to clear up the Rajprasong area), it matters little now whether someone or an organization was paid by Thaksin or not. The truth now is that many people are willing to spend money to “help” Thaksin. If you understand Thai well, click the link below to hear what Thanpuying had to say at the Phanfa stage some time ago. Ironically, it is the website of The Nation, known as the most anti-Thaksin daily newspaper, which carries the clip.
Several once pro-ammat companies (I would not tell you who they are now) are secretly offering to finance the reds, now that the movement is getting stronger each day. The Bangkok governor (a Democrat) personally came to see Veera offering the use of mobile toilets at Rajprasong stage. We can guess what these gestures are all about. The bottomline is that the issue is no longer about Thaksin. The main issue is now more about injustice in society and Thaksin is only one part of it.
I sincerely hope that this thread (and any future similar ones) will not degenerate into an angry slanging match of unsubstantiated allegations, mindless cliches and juvenile abuse. Please – if this is how you wish to spend your time, I suggest you post on ThaiVisa or the comments sections of the Bangkok Post. I come here to escape all that – not the controversy, just the hate.
Take a good look at yourself Mr. Nostitz: Your advice is “… then don’t read my articles, because you won’t get anything else. Simple as that.”
It is good advice, and usually I don’t waste much time on you. But I notice how often you whine about how tired you are of answering your critics. You’ve said that repeatedly. And you do answer them to an almost compulsive degree.
Well, take your own advice: if you don’t like the criticism, don’t read it and don’t reply to it. Just go on taking your photos and writing your reports and let readers judge for themselves instead of whining. Simple as that.
As for you fan club’s request for me to deconstruct your reports for their obvious slant and bias, rather than waste my time on those who only see the world through red-colored glasses, (and you can see by the infrequency of my posts that I don’t spend much time on this site) I’ll simply recall the panel discussion Mr. Nostitz was on last May at the Foreign Correspondents Club of Thailand with other photojournalists who covered the Sonkgran riots.
In front of the entire audience you claimed that red shirts had been shot and killed by the military. You insisted this was true. You even said you had seen it.
Until you were called on it by the other photojournalists. One kept pushing you for evidence of this until, sheepishly, you backed down and admitted that you had not seen any red shirts being shot. In the end you admitted this was only something red shirts had told you. But there you were trumpeting it as fact, and at first, as something you had seen. Your bias had gotten the best of you.
You were exposed as a teller of untruths.
And by the way, there were many posters on this website last year who were also voicing disbelief at the notion that the army had not killed anyone during the Songkran riots and spouting a lot of weng about red shirts being shot.
Well, it is nearly a year since those events. Where are the relatives of those supposedly dead and missing red shirts? Why have they not come forward to declare their relatives went missing and demand justice? Why is there no Committee for the Relatives of April 2010? Why do red websites such as norporchorusa still insist there were “mass killings” in April 2010?
Yes, there are a lot of red faces here. And an awful lot of weng.
@banrachawong: Apologies, but you no longer have a monopoly on polluting people’s minds with the fairy-tales you call “history” in Thailand. You’d do well to get over it quick, because the party’s almost over…
Vichai N – yes and government form out of power brokerage from the military and elite certainly does not represent the majority of the Thai people either. The only people that get annoyed with the red are those self-serving yellow (or pink or green or blue they are all the same group of people) who also closed down the area all the same couple of years ago, so yeah, you shouldnt be hypocrite.
well, he did offer them elections a year earlier than required but the mob decided that wasn’t soon enough for them. Since when do you call mob rule democracy? That goes for the yellows and the reds.
Tom Bleming is a true American hero, going places all over the globe and doing things that many of you only dream about!
Tom Bleming received the Silver Star for his service to the United States when he fought in Vietnam and continues on , even today to serve the interests of America.
This blog is far too good to be true. I wish for all involved in this so callled “academic” orchestration to come out and take a bow when this is all over and take the responsibility of thinking and choosing for Thai people. I am not sure if you are aware of what you are dealing with. Intellectual, you say, you have simplified thousands of years of history with just that? Are you sure you are up for the consequences of polluting Thai people with your ideas? How on earth could you come to such conclusion that Thailand needs your kind of change? If Thailand has made a mistake, it was when she let you in and allow you to slapped her on the face when you left.
what’s more : so called Thai “Democrats” , with Minister Korn as a leader, are organizing their own mob to counteract UDD protests ! 🙂
(read Nation, aslo BP & PPT blogs for details ). while merely less then 2 years ago Korn himself has very eloquently expressed his support for PAD rallies and efforts to dislodge then PPP gov through “any means” 😀
this time though he urges gov to disperse protesters ASAP – or else !
an interesting program right now on TPBS about Communist insurgency.
looks like for the first time it is an attempt to revise the perception of the former Communists, and at very least to show them as humans. in fact, humans who has been repeatedly betrayed and cheated of many things, last time by Surayudh back in 2007, which is mentioned as one of the main reasons why they have joined UDD.
also I guess it is an attempt to analyze & understand the real reasons – why such uprisings happen, as ongoing UDD movement.
I know what they actually want to say, but it’s just so funny how they get so close, yet so wrong. Kind of like answering with “yes” and “no” by Thai vs English.
Clue for second sentence, think like sign maker…
(hint) read aloud
PM Abhisit and the Bangkok citizens have so far been very patient with the Reds protests. But I can see THAT patience getting thinner each moment as the Reds get more intrusive, more abusive and more intransigent with their political demands . . . demands that are not popular nor acceptable to the general population of Thailand.
The 100,000 (only the stupid would believe 1.0 million protesters would join in) or so noisy protesters in their horrid Red costumes do not represent the wishes of the majority of the Thai people . . . and the stories from neighbors and friends that the bulk of the Reds were paid-for mercenaries do not help their cause. But perhaps because the Thaksin-shadow looms large behind the Red movement is the main reason why this 100K-large Red protests will fail . . . definitely fail.
When the going gets tough in the next few days . . . and protests turn nasty . . . the Reds should only blame themselves (and their attachment to Thaksin) if instead of sympathy the city of Bangkok bid them ‘good riddance’ instead.
With the Thai ‘intelligentsia’ definitely against Thaksin’s Red movement . . . how could anyone seriously believe the Reds to be pro-democracy or to be pro-rule-of-law?
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Anti-pro-democracy
Its amazing how those in Bangkok always get back to Taksin. It should be obvious even to ‘blind freddy’ that it more about the legitimate rights that all Thais should have, not just a few from the rich elite, isolated in Bangkok. The common theme I have encountered from redshirt supporters is a belief that they have been disenfranchised and are regarded as stupid buffaloes by those in Bangkok. But the Bangkok view has not been my experience – and as I am a university professor I have some credentials for judging this. A lack of education due to the failure of the central government to provide reasonable standards of education for all is more to blame.
Anti-pro-democracy
Banphai. It’s the uncorked bottle syndrome. It is natural for people to have strong opinions, rather than just doing what they are told to do by smug others. That said, I’m sure that smug Mr. Thaksin has been deliberately shaking the bottle for his own ends. Let’s hope it hits the greedy manipulator full force in his sneering face.
Imagining a new mandala in mainland Southeast Asia
@anthapan believe it or not the thing I called history and you call fairy tales does not come conveniently from sources from one side. Let me tell you a very strange story, I happened to stumble upon a book ( in the land of fairy tales where no contradicting views are allowed) that claim to say that our history is based on fiction not facts. I found it very interesting hence finished the whole book in a night. The book tried to prove the point that our history was made up so along the way many facts such as how the often this land had been saved by courageous rulers whose decedents made up of our royalists. I guess truths are truths no matter how hard you want to hide them. Someone fought for this land, that’s much I know. Should you not be grateful for that? If not for the blood that was shed, we wouldn’t be having the luxury to discuss about this here and now. The irony is that I was not impressed by the fairy tales until I read this book which opened my eyes. I guess you must want to know who write the book. It was written by one of the red academic army Reangyos Jantharakiri (р╣Ар╕гр╕╖р╕нр╕Зр╕вр╕и р╕Ир╕▒р╕Щр╕Чр╕гр╕Др╕╡р╕гр╕╡).
Imagining a new mandala in mainland Southeast Asia
Elite of Elite! I don’t believe in kharma when it is intentionally imposed on me as a means of social repression. I do, however, have a strong belief in the remarkably very similar idea of “What goes around, comes around”. And I will also enjoy the spectacle of watching the poo-yais and fake prais crash & burn from their own monumental stupidity. The shit is likely to hit the fan pretty soon, but I am almost certain that those who have long conspired to profit from the succession are going to wish they had stayed at home and taken up knitting as a more profitable hobby. Enjoy!
Imagining a new mandala in mainland Southeast Asia
What a hoot Banrachawong! I guess what you really mean is that your own brand of traditional pollution doesn’t really work like it used to.
The expats who live here have absolutely no power at all to shape local people’s thinking. So be it! This is not our country. But we would be complacent if we didn’t have an opinion on those who oppress us. I count both Thaksin and Sonthi lim as oppressive, for instance. There are many others, right down to the bureaucratic stamp-wielding sadists in government offices. You would have to live as an expat yourself to know precisely how powerless we are, when we can’t just afford to buy ourselves out of trouble. We are largely treated with contempt because we don’t fit neatly into people’s unreal ‘free lunch’ expectations. Most of the time we are barely able to protect ourselves against the predators in local society. We may have a bit more money than say a lowly civil servant, but we have even fewer rights because of the paranoia of those who continue to want to run this country as a personal piggy-bank.
Some real pollution has come from the superpowers over the last century, but you poo-yais are all too keen to live off their largesse when the money starts flying. If Thailand made a mistake, it was because of the foolishness of poo-yais in believing they could continue to control all the strings of power, without actually making any real effort.
Stop blaming it on others and start realizing your own numerous mistakes.
Imagining a new mandala in mainland Southeast Asia
I presume to speak for most of the non- Thais who contribute to this blog, in saying that we wish that the people of Thailand were able to live as well as we do. We live under laws made by our own elected representatives. Many of us live in true constitutional monarchies, where the monarch or the monarch’s deputy must act on the advice of a cabinet, appointed from our representatives, by a leader elected by them. We realise how lucky we are, not to be enslaved by a club of whispering, slithering courtiers who get their positions by well directed grovelling, and their power by corrupting the army and the courts.
Imagining a new mandala in mainland Southeast Asia
I never thought that my first innocent posting would generate such a “vigorous debate” afterward. Now that hundreds of thousands of red shirts are roaming Rajprasong and Phanfa/Rajdamnern areas while Abhisit has no clue on how to deal with the situation (yesterday the court rejected his request to issue an injunction to clear up the Rajprasong area), it matters little now whether someone or an organization was paid by Thaksin or not. The truth now is that many people are willing to spend money to “help” Thaksin. If you understand Thai well, click the link below to hear what Thanpuying had to say at the Phanfa stage some time ago. Ironically, it is the website of The Nation, known as the most anti-Thaksin daily newspaper, which carries the clip.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/03/24/politics/Thanpuying-Viraya-Now-and-Then-30125442.html
Several once pro-ammat companies (I would not tell you who they are now) are secretly offering to finance the reds, now that the movement is getting stronger each day. The Bangkok governor (a Democrat) personally came to see Veera offering the use of mobile toilets at Rajprasong stage. We can guess what these gestures are all about. The bottomline is that the issue is no longer about Thaksin. The main issue is now more about injustice in society and Thaksin is only one part of it.
Anti-pro-democracy
I sincerely hope that this thread (and any future similar ones) will not degenerate into an angry slanging match of unsubstantiated allegations, mindless cliches and juvenile abuse. Please – if this is how you wish to spend your time, I suggest you post on ThaiVisa or the comments sections of the Bangkok Post. I come here to escape all that – not the controversy, just the hate.
Bangkok or bust, Part 1
@ Nick Nostitz #50.
Take a good look at yourself Mr. Nostitz: Your advice is “… then don’t read my articles, because you won’t get anything else. Simple as that.”
It is good advice, and usually I don’t waste much time on you. But I notice how often you whine about how tired you are of answering your critics. You’ve said that repeatedly. And you do answer them to an almost compulsive degree.
Well, take your own advice: if you don’t like the criticism, don’t read it and don’t reply to it. Just go on taking your photos and writing your reports and let readers judge for themselves instead of whining. Simple as that.
As for you fan club’s request for me to deconstruct your reports for their obvious slant and bias, rather than waste my time on those who only see the world through red-colored glasses, (and you can see by the infrequency of my posts that I don’t spend much time on this site) I’ll simply recall the panel discussion Mr. Nostitz was on last May at the Foreign Correspondents Club of Thailand with other photojournalists who covered the Sonkgran riots.
In front of the entire audience you claimed that red shirts had been shot and killed by the military. You insisted this was true. You even said you had seen it.
Until you were called on it by the other photojournalists. One kept pushing you for evidence of this until, sheepishly, you backed down and admitted that you had not seen any red shirts being shot. In the end you admitted this was only something red shirts had told you. But there you were trumpeting it as fact, and at first, as something you had seen. Your bias had gotten the best of you.
You were exposed as a teller of untruths.
And by the way, there were many posters on this website last year who were also voicing disbelief at the notion that the army had not killed anyone during the Songkran riots and spouting a lot of weng about red shirts being shot.
Well, it is nearly a year since those events. Where are the relatives of those supposedly dead and missing red shirts? Why have they not come forward to declare their relatives went missing and demand justice? Why is there no Committee for the Relatives of April 2010? Why do red websites such as norporchorusa still insist there were “mass killings” in April 2010?
Yes, there are a lot of red faces here. And an awful lot of weng.
Imagining a new mandala in mainland Southeast Asia
@banrachawong: Apologies, but you no longer have a monopoly on polluting people’s minds with the fairy-tales you call “history” in Thailand. You’d do well to get over it quick, because the party’s almost over…
Occupation of the malls – UPDATED
Bangkok Pundit makes an interesting comparison…
http://us.asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-pundit-blog/another-historic-march-for-democracy
Anti-pro-democracy
Vichai N – yes and government form out of power brokerage from the military and elite certainly does not represent the majority of the Thai people either. The only people that get annoyed with the red are those self-serving yellow (or pink or green or blue they are all the same group of people) who also closed down the area all the same couple of years ago, so yeah, you shouldnt be hypocrite.
Anti-pro-democracy
well, he did offer them elections a year earlier than required but the mob decided that wasn’t soon enough for them. Since when do you call mob rule democracy? That goes for the yellows and the reds.
Volunteering to fight in Burma
Tom Bleming is a true American hero, going places all over the globe and doing things that many of you only dream about!
Tom Bleming received the Silver Star for his service to the United States when he fought in Vietnam and continues on , even today to serve the interests of America.
Imagining a new mandala in mainland Southeast Asia
This blog is far too good to be true. I wish for all involved in this so callled “academic” orchestration to come out and take a bow when this is all over and take the responsibility of thinking and choosing for Thai people. I am not sure if you are aware of what you are dealing with. Intellectual, you say, you have simplified thousands of years of history with just that? Are you sure you are up for the consequences of polluting Thai people with your ideas? How on earth could you come to such conclusion that Thailand needs your kind of change? If Thailand has made a mistake, it was when she let you in and allow you to slapped her on the face when you left.
Anti-pro-democracy
what’s more : so called Thai “Democrats” , with Minister Korn as a leader, are organizing their own mob to counteract UDD protests ! 🙂
(read Nation, aslo BP & PPT blogs for details ). while merely less then 2 years ago Korn himself has very eloquently expressed his support for PAD rallies and efforts to dislodge then PPP gov through “any means” 😀
this time though he urges gov to disperse protesters ASAP – or else !
Imagining a new mandala in mainland Southeast Asia
Be a gentleman Vichai and withdraw your scurrilous claim if you have no evidence. This is behavior unbecoming of any “educated” person.
Scum of the earth
an interesting program right now on TPBS about Communist insurgency.
looks like for the first time it is an attempt to revise the perception of the former Communists, and at very least to show them as humans. in fact, humans who has been repeatedly betrayed and cheated of many things, last time by Surayudh back in 2007, which is mentioned as one of the main reasons why they have joined UDD.
also I guess it is an attempt to analyze & understand the real reasons – why such uprisings happen, as ongoing UDD movement.
“Thailand want р╕вр╕╕р╕Ър╕кр╕ар╕▓”: Red signs in English
@Thomas Hoy
I know what they actually want to say, but it’s just so funny how they get so close, yet so wrong. Kind of like answering with “yes” and “no” by Thai vs English.
Clue for second sentence, think like sign maker…
(hint) read aloud
Anti-pro-democracy
PM Abhisit and the Bangkok citizens have so far been very patient with the Reds protests. But I can see THAT patience getting thinner each moment as the Reds get more intrusive, more abusive and more intransigent with their political demands . . . demands that are not popular nor acceptable to the general population of Thailand.
The 100,000 (only the stupid would believe 1.0 million protesters would join in) or so noisy protesters in their horrid Red costumes do not represent the wishes of the majority of the Thai people . . . and the stories from neighbors and friends that the bulk of the Reds were paid-for mercenaries do not help their cause. But perhaps because the Thaksin-shadow looms large behind the Red movement is the main reason why this 100K-large Red protests will fail . . . definitely fail.
When the going gets tough in the next few days . . . and protests turn nasty . . . the Reds should only blame themselves (and their attachment to Thaksin) if instead of sympathy the city of Bangkok bid them ‘good riddance’ instead.
With the Thai ‘intelligentsia’ definitely against Thaksin’s Red movement . . . how could anyone seriously believe the Reds to be pro-democracy or to be pro-rule-of-law?