The ones that hit the World Trade Center came from Egypt, they were trained as engineering students in Germany. Over 3,000 lives were unnecessarily lost on the 9/11.
Secondly, hardly any Thai would go to Egypt for holidays. Here the top key PAD leaders went to Egypt for the second times. What was the meeting about?
Lastly, last week, on their political public appearance on ASTV, the PAD leaders wore clothes identical to HAMAS color, hardly any Thai men would wear that kind of color. We must always remember that PAD was capable of closing the international and domestic airports, Thailand was completely cut off from outside world. Logistically, it was very serious. Furthermore, we must realize that in the current international conflicts the actors are non-state actors.
does this mean you really believe that it is job of the military (and some aristocrats?) to decide for themselves if a government is behaving properly?
in the recognised full participatory democracies, the military, and the monarchy, are subservient to the government chosen by the people
it is the voters job and their option to choose the government, for all purposes
its obvious you guys have fundamental misconceptions of civilisation as it has evolved, where people have equality in voting for their own government and equality before the law
the elites of Thailand desperately need to update themselves on how to successfully behave in a modern society instead of manipulating a feudal military sustained master slave society that is regressing down with Burma
I finally understand that Giles is correct when he says the monarchy is now an impediment to democracy.
Its not the bluebloods who are the impediment, but the system. It has developed in such a way that everyone turns to one man as being able to solve all the problems – if thats the real answer, then why not just revert back toan absolute monarchy?
Worse still are those who know that one man cannot solve all the problems, but they still use the symbolism (and loyalty & might) attached to that man to further their own selfish aims.
How long after Mao’s death did the billboards take to come down?
Sorry for being such a slow learner( and thanks to NM 🙂
I’m sure Aj Somsak argued somewhere else that the circumstance in which Hitler came to power was highly unique and is highly unlikely to be reproduced anywhere else in the world. That Hitler claimed a democratic mandate (implying that Thaksin was no different) was only a tiny part of the big picture. But of course I should leave it to Aj Somsak himself to elaborate (if he wishes to).
One point of interest: The Nazis never won more than 45% of the popular vote. In comparison, Thai Rak Thai won more than 60% of the popular vote in 2005.
Is the Malaysian government pursuing a Taliban State in Southeast Asia? Here’s the excerpt from Malaysian Uproar Over the Word ‘Allah’, New York Times, Jan 10,2010.
“An uproar among Muslims in Malaysia over the use of the word Allah by Christians spread over the weekend with the firebombing and vandalizing of several churches, increasing tensions at a time of political turbulence.
Arsonists struck three churches and a convent school early Sunday and splashed black paint on another church. This followed the firebombing of four churches on Friday and Saturday.
On New Year’s Day, the Islamic morality police arrested 52 unmarried couples in budget hotels – mainly students and young factory workers – who were expected to be charged with the offense of close proximity.
Earlier last year, a Muslim woman was sentenced to a public caning for drinking beer in a hotel.”
In the critical juncture where Southeast Asian states are in transition from the pre-modern world towards the international community of civilized nations where basic human rights and liberty of citizens are respected by the State, globalization highlights the necessity for change.
The repressive Thai State has been maintaining the unacceptable laws such as lese majeste law, internet law, national security law to suppress academic freedom and the individual rights to human dignity. For example, at the present time, Ms. Da Torpedo has a serious toothache to the point that she was unable to open her mouth to eat food, yet the Thai State refuses to provide her the necessity medical treatments. The Thai State is indeed inhumane in its purposeful acts to jail a political prisoner with the intention to make her cripple or die in jail.
Well said StanG – voters obviously voted for Thaksin’s economic policies, as these benefited them.
They did not vote for a change in Thailand’s constitutional arrangements, and they certainly did not vote on the issue of the position or powers of the Crown.
“Globalization is going to create a new type of discrimination.” >> Ever asked why hardly any Thai academic has so far contributed a post to this blog? And this presumably is not about being able to use the English language.
“in current real practical politics there is zero tolerance for replacement of a government at the whim of a few aristocrats and wannabe-rich military”
Not a single government refused to recognize legitimacy of the junta so it was obviously not a “zero tolerance”. Internally, the coup was also widely accepted.
Thaksin insubordination, however, clearly had zero tolerance among those entrusted with protection of the monarchy.
It’s not the voters job to ensure that promises made before the King are not ignored.
Kokangs speak Yunnanese and became native Myanmar citizens after a border agreement. Jimmy Yang was their last ‘Zawbwar’. Kokang militia was once a part of ‘Kar Kwe Yay’. They later fought for CPB but their economic interest always is superior to political interest. Sadly Maj Than Dine who knew a lot was deceased decades ago.
Lwelas (wa) are historically a tribe of Shan State. There are northern and southern tribes. The skin may be brown due to sun exposure but they all have epicanthic folds. They had been loyal fighters of the CPB. Their interest in autonomy equals their economic interest. However much of the land UWSA is claiming were Shanland.
Due to the weak civilisation, both groups depend heavily on the advice of ex-university students who joined the CPB.
The concept of ‘Border Forces’ is merely reinventing the ‘Ka Kwe Yay’. On the other hand, it allows the ex-insurgents to bear arms. Because PRC had abandoned both groups, UWSA would finally become Border Force. They will become counterpart SPDCs in Shan State so that Democracy will be very far from the ordinary Shans, Kokangs and Wa’s.
Satti – yes : I agree with at least 50% of what you say here, especially re. strengthening Thai monarchy, and raising living standards. Tula was a panic reaction to the collapse of American power, which was itself a consequence of the Dulles brothers over-turning America’s commitment to Ho Chi Minh
that America would honour an election to re-unite Vietnam, as stipulated in ’54’s Geneva accords.
Ho had worked for the CIA, and wrote Vietnam’s Declaration of Independence almost word for word as a copy of America’s.
The “Domino Theory” indeed codswallop, with the benefit of hindsight. Where I disagree with you is the quality of the Australians – academics, bureaucrats, politicians – who should have had some fore-sight. Almost all had very little real knowledge of Asia. As I recall, only Fitzgerald and MacKie
were even fluent in a major Asian language, when ANU’s School of Asian and Pacific Studies was first established. Anglo-phile, Imperial Britain nostalgic tragic Menzies – the Australian PM then – NEVER set foot in Asia.
Funker – you really are in some kind of funk.
Isaarn is a former part of Siam : I never said it was a Buddhist
commonwealth, but Siam was a more federal set-up.
Indeed some of the earliest Siamese “states” were federal – you obviously do not know your Siamese history.
The “Thai” state is a facist creation of the Pibun pro-Japanese fsascist military clique, created in 1937.
However “Thailand” DOES share a common monarchy with Isaarn, and even Laos. The Lao monarchy were close cousins of the Thai Royals, until overthrown by the “communist” – in fact nationalist – revolution of 1975.
Incidentally here – the term Pathet Lao translates as Lao Nation – NOT “Communist” Lao, as so often mis-reported by Western and other media. And that is what the Lao PDR is – a Lao state, run by, and for Lao. And you are wrong – the prospect that they will link up, and liberate their 16 million Lao brothers and sisters in Thai-occupied Isaarn, like Vichy France, becomes stronger in their eyes, every-day they see the current break-up of “Thailand”.
If you don’t believe me, on the chances of this, read Wassana’s recent Bangkok Post article re. “Thailand’s” approaching civil war.
“Just don’t tell them what they should think…. Make this book as personal as you can…. for most outsiders the Tatmadaw soldiers are a strange entity, some dehumanized robots working for the evil ones, and we forget that they are humans as anybody else…. A book from your angle could not just contribute enormously to the knowledge base and debate, but to a possible future reconciliation.”
Couldn’t agree more. Hla Oo has a veritable mine of first hand experience as a Tatmadaw vet and when he puts pen to paper it makes him a unique story teller. And I wish him good luck and a long healthy life what with his liver etc. , all the more urgent to leave something of great value to posterity.
I do however have some misgivings about the veracity of his tales at times and whether he really has no axe to grind, if the following post a while back, another ‘first hand account’ as a guest contributor, is anything to go by.
He sure wouldn’t want to go down as someone peddling half-truths with an agenda. To expect a Burmese story teller to be objective is rather a big ask at the best of times. Burmese are fond of ripping yarns and the oral tradition ensures that embellishments and spin in a certain direction with a ‘moral’ of sorts cannot be ruled out.
David Brown – the mistake the German Wehrmacht army made was that it did not stage a coup against Hitler – before it was too late.
They relied on constitutional processes, the courts,
President Hindenburg, etc. as a bulwark against Hitler – who also posed as “democratically elected”, with the largest vote of any single German party – and who they mistakenly thought they could control.
I don’t share any of your illusions – or those of Ralph, Ji Ungkaporn, or anyone else about what Thaksin was up to.
The reports of those 1,000 rifles are real, and were reported
BEFORE 2006 coup. Ralph is either too lazy to find them, or should stop drinking before he starts posting.
Given Thaksin’s “war on drugs”, his approach to the Southern insurgency, the likelihood that Thaksin had assembled a Newin-led private army, is believable.
In my opinion, the 2006 coup was justifiable. What has happened since – especially Yellow Shirts seizing airports, overthrow of a democratically elected government – without a subsequent general election (so far, and if ever), is not.
I would like to ask General Prem the following questions :
1) Sir – with the greatest respect – what is your position on
Thailand’s Royal Succession ?
Sir – there have been rumours that HRH The Crown Prince may not be healthy enough to succeed his glorious father, when that sad and unfortunate day eventually arrives. Let’s hope it is still a long way off.
But :
2) Given her immense popularity, do you see HRH Princess
Sirindhorn, as part of the solution to Thailand’s prolonged crisis – which Finance Minister Chatikavanij recently predicted may last another 15 years ?
HRH The Princess is immensely popular even in somewhat disaffected Isaarn, and very well-liked in Laos – both parts of former Siam.
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Najib in 2010 – More of the same?
Here is an interesting analysis from M. Bakri Musa, a respected Malaysian intellectual now residing in the U.S.
New year wishes from …
The ones that hit the World Trade Center came from Egypt, they were trained as engineering students in Germany. Over 3,000 lives were unnecessarily lost on the 9/11.
Secondly, hardly any Thai would go to Egypt for holidays. Here the top key PAD leaders went to Egypt for the second times. What was the meeting about?
Lastly, last week, on their political public appearance on ASTV, the PAD leaders wore clothes identical to HAMAS color, hardly any Thai men would wear that kind of color. We must always remember that PAD was capable of closing the international and domestic airports, Thailand was completely cut off from outside world. Logistically, it was very serious. Furthermore, we must realize that in the current international conflicts the actors are non-state actors.
Thaksin on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
Stan and Chris…
does this mean you really believe that it is job of the military (and some aristocrats?) to decide for themselves if a government is behaving properly?
in the recognised full participatory democracies, the military, and the monarchy, are subservient to the government chosen by the people
it is the voters job and their option to choose the government, for all purposes
its obvious you guys have fundamental misconceptions of civilisation as it has evolved, where people have equality in voting for their own government and equality before the law
the elites of Thailand desperately need to update themselves on how to successfully behave in a modern society instead of manipulating a feudal military sustained master slave society that is regressing down with Burma
What would you like to ask General Prem?
Who cares who takes over from the old fellow?
I finally understand that Giles is correct when he says the monarchy is now an impediment to democracy.
Its not the bluebloods who are the impediment, but the system. It has developed in such a way that everyone turns to one man as being able to solve all the problems – if thats the real answer, then why not just revert back toan absolute monarchy?
Worse still are those who know that one man cannot solve all the problems, but they still use the symbolism (and loyalty & might) attached to that man to further their own selfish aims.
How long after Mao’s death did the billboards take to come down?
Sorry for being such a slow learner( and thanks to NM 🙂
Thaksin on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
@Chris Beale
I’m sure Aj Somsak argued somewhere else that the circumstance in which Hitler came to power was highly unique and is highly unlikely to be reproduced anywhere else in the world. That Hitler claimed a democratic mandate (implying that Thaksin was no different) was only a tiny part of the big picture. But of course I should leave it to Aj Somsak himself to elaborate (if he wishes to).
One point of interest: The Nazis never won more than 45% of the popular vote. In comparison, Thai Rak Thai won more than 60% of the popular vote in 2005.
Najib in 2010 – More of the same?
Is the Malaysian government pursuing a Taliban State in Southeast Asia? Here’s the excerpt from Malaysian Uproar Over the Word ‘Allah’, New York Times, Jan 10,2010.
“An uproar among Muslims in Malaysia over the use of the word Allah by Christians spread over the weekend with the firebombing and vandalizing of several churches, increasing tensions at a time of political turbulence.
Arsonists struck three churches and a convent school early Sunday and splashed black paint on another church. This followed the firebombing of four churches on Friday and Saturday.
On New Year’s Day, the Islamic morality police arrested 52 unmarried couples in budget hotels – mainly students and young factory workers – who were expected to be charged with the offense of close proximity.
Earlier last year, a Muslim woman was sentenced to a public caning for drinking beer in a hotel.”
On academic blogging
In the critical juncture where Southeast Asian states are in transition from the pre-modern world towards the international community of civilized nations where basic human rights and liberty of citizens are respected by the State, globalization highlights the necessity for change.
The repressive Thai State has been maintaining the unacceptable laws such as lese majeste law, internet law, national security law to suppress academic freedom and the individual rights to human dignity. For example, at the present time, Ms. Da Torpedo has a serious toothache to the point that she was unable to open her mouth to eat food, yet the Thai State refuses to provide her the necessity medical treatments. The Thai State is indeed inhumane in its purposeful acts to jail a political prisoner with the intention to make her cripple or die in jail.
Najib in 2010 – More of the same?
The view of a Malay leader who feel that minorities have “oppressed” the majority”. Is this the representative view of all Malays?
New year wishes from …
Susie – 19 out of the 21 attackers, on 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia, not Egypt.
Thaksin on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
Well said StanG – voters obviously voted for Thaksin’s economic policies, as these benefited them.
They did not vote for a change in Thailand’s constitutional arrangements, and they certainly did not vote on the issue of the position or powers of the Crown.
On academic blogging
“Globalization is going to create a new type of discrimination.” >> Ever asked why hardly any Thai academic has so far contributed a post to this blog? And this presumably is not about being able to use the English language.
Thaksin on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
“in current real practical politics there is zero tolerance for replacement of a government at the whim of a few aristocrats and wannabe-rich military”
Not a single government refused to recognize legitimacy of the junta so it was obviously not a “zero tolerance”. Internally, the coup was also widely accepted.
Thaksin insubordination, however, clearly had zero tolerance among those entrusted with protection of the monarchy.
It’s not the voters job to ensure that promises made before the King are not ignored.
Red versus yellow
[…] […]
China and the Wa
Kokangs speak Yunnanese and became native Myanmar citizens after a border agreement. Jimmy Yang was their last ‘Zawbwar’. Kokang militia was once a part of ‘Kar Kwe Yay’. They later fought for CPB but their economic interest always is superior to political interest. Sadly Maj Than Dine who knew a lot was deceased decades ago.
Lwelas (wa) are historically a tribe of Shan State. There are northern and southern tribes. The skin may be brown due to sun exposure but they all have epicanthic folds. They had been loyal fighters of the CPB. Their interest in autonomy equals their economic interest. However much of the land UWSA is claiming were Shanland.
Due to the weak civilisation, both groups depend heavily on the advice of ex-university students who joined the CPB.
The concept of ‘Border Forces’ is merely reinventing the ‘Ka Kwe Yay’. On the other hand, it allows the ex-insurgents to bear arms. Because PRC had abandoned both groups, UWSA would finally become Border Force. They will become counterpart SPDCs in Shan State so that Democracy will be very far from the ordinary Shans, Kokangs and Wa’s.
Uncertainty reigns in Thailand
remarkably prediction of Thailand in 2010, the situation seems to go that way. Thais can’t not avoid this uncertainty.
Bangkok Post on the crown prince
Satti – yes : I agree with at least 50% of what you say here, especially re. strengthening Thai monarchy, and raising living standards. Tula was a panic reaction to the collapse of American power, which was itself a consequence of the Dulles brothers over-turning America’s commitment to Ho Chi Minh
that America would honour an election to re-unite Vietnam, as stipulated in ’54’s Geneva accords.
Ho had worked for the CIA, and wrote Vietnam’s Declaration of Independence almost word for word as a copy of America’s.
The “Domino Theory” indeed codswallop, with the benefit of hindsight. Where I disagree with you is the quality of the Australians – academics, bureaucrats, politicians – who should have had some fore-sight. Almost all had very little real knowledge of Asia. As I recall, only Fitzgerald and MacKie
were even fluent in a major Asian language, when ANU’s School of Asian and Pacific Studies was first established. Anglo-phile, Imperial Britain nostalgic tragic Menzies – the Australian PM then – NEVER set foot in Asia.
Thailand’s crown prince
Funker – you really are in some kind of funk.
Isaarn is a former part of Siam : I never said it was a Buddhist
commonwealth, but Siam was a more federal set-up.
Indeed some of the earliest Siamese “states” were federal – you obviously do not know your Siamese history.
The “Thai” state is a facist creation of the Pibun pro-Japanese fsascist military clique, created in 1937.
However “Thailand” DOES share a common monarchy with Isaarn, and even Laos. The Lao monarchy were close cousins of the Thai Royals, until overthrown by the “communist” – in fact nationalist – revolution of 1975.
Incidentally here – the term Pathet Lao translates as Lao Nation – NOT “Communist” Lao, as so often mis-reported by Western and other media. And that is what the Lao PDR is – a Lao state, run by, and for Lao. And you are wrong – the prospect that they will link up, and liberate their 16 million Lao brothers and sisters in Thai-occupied Isaarn, like Vichy France, becomes stronger in their eyes, every-day they see the current break-up of “Thailand”.
If you don’t believe me, on the chances of this, read Wassana’s recent Bangkok Post article re. “Thailand’s” approaching civil war.
China and the Wa
Nick,
“Just don’t tell them what they should think…. Make this book as personal as you can…. for most outsiders the Tatmadaw soldiers are a strange entity, some dehumanized robots working for the evil ones, and we forget that they are humans as anybody else…. A book from your angle could not just contribute enormously to the knowledge base and debate, but to a possible future reconciliation.”
Couldn’t agree more. Hla Oo has a veritable mine of first hand experience as a Tatmadaw vet and when he puts pen to paper it makes him a unique story teller. And I wish him good luck and a long healthy life what with his liver etc. , all the more urgent to leave something of great value to posterity.
I do however have some misgivings about the veracity of his tales at times and whether he really has no axe to grind, if the following post a while back, another ‘first hand account’ as a guest contributor, is anything to go by.
http://www.newmandala.org/2008/07/23/1974-u-thant-uprising-a-first-hand-account/#comment-510224
He sure wouldn’t want to go down as someone peddling half-truths with an agenda. To expect a Burmese story teller to be objective is rather a big ask at the best of times. Burmese are fond of ripping yarns and the oral tradition ensures that embellishments and spin in a certain direction with a ‘moral’ of sorts cannot be ruled out.
Thaksin on Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn
David Brown – the mistake the German Wehrmacht army made was that it did not stage a coup against Hitler – before it was too late.
They relied on constitutional processes, the courts,
President Hindenburg, etc. as a bulwark against Hitler – who also posed as “democratically elected”, with the largest vote of any single German party – and who they mistakenly thought they could control.
I don’t share any of your illusions – or those of Ralph, Ji Ungkaporn, or anyone else about what Thaksin was up to.
The reports of those 1,000 rifles are real, and were reported
BEFORE 2006 coup. Ralph is either too lazy to find them, or should stop drinking before he starts posting.
Given Thaksin’s “war on drugs”, his approach to the Southern insurgency, the likelihood that Thaksin had assembled a Newin-led private army, is believable.
In my opinion, the 2006 coup was justifiable. What has happened since – especially Yellow Shirts seizing airports, overthrow of a democratically elected government – without a subsequent general election (so far, and if ever), is not.
What would you like to ask General Prem?
I would like to ask General Prem the following questions :
1) Sir – with the greatest respect – what is your position on
Thailand’s Royal Succession ?
Sir – there have been rumours that HRH The Crown Prince may not be healthy enough to succeed his glorious father, when that sad and unfortunate day eventually arrives. Let’s hope it is still a long way off.
But :
2) Given her immense popularity, do you see HRH Princess
Sirindhorn, as part of the solution to Thailand’s prolonged crisis – which Finance Minister Chatikavanij recently predicted may last another 15 years ?
HRH The Princess is immensely popular even in somewhat disaffected Isaarn, and very well-liked in Laos – both parts of former Siam.