“Four ethnic ceasefire groups in Burma’s north have got together and decided to retaliate against the ruling junta, if it starts any offensive against any member of the alliance, said local sources.
The groups in the military alliance are the Kachin Independence Organization (KIO) based in Kachin State and Northeast Shan State, Mongla-based National Democratic Alliance Army-Eastern Shan State (NDAA-ESS), Kokang ceasefire group and United Wa State Army (UWSA), said KIO sources.”
I think that there was an alliance or agreement between the 4 groups that came out of the Burma Communist Party (BCP) namely UWSA, Kokang, Mongla and NDA-K. This seems to be the Peace and Democracy Front.
But I also recall reading in the last few months, since the border guard proposal came out, of an mutual defense alliance between Kokang, UWSA, Mongla and KIO. Unfortunately I don’t have the time to do a through search to find the reference to the second group. And in a sense I do not think it would matter because it was likely to have been a news article and not some sort of official communique. The point being that sometimes the news reports get a bit lost in the alphabet soup of ceasefire group politics and might contain some errors. I will send out some emails in the hope that I can get someone with more information to take a look at this an clarify it.
I had thought the same but today, when I was putting this piece together, all of the sources I was checking were listing the NDA-K as part of this alliance. I have now gone back to re-check and can find some reports referring totheNDA-K and some to theKIO as the fourth MPDF member.
This looks the most definitive source on the matter and in translator note 2 it confirms your comment.
Ge Deng, I certainly expect you are right about this and my initial post is wrong.
Can anyone offer further information? I am very happy to provide space for relevant PDFs or other materials that may be helpful to the wider reading public.
I thought the NDA-K had agreed to the border guard proposal and that the Myanmar Peace and Democracy Front (MPDF) was UWSA, Mongla, KIO and Kokang. Above you list the NDA-K as part of the MPDF and do not list the KIA/KIO. Is that an error?
#52 Ralph Kramden -What do you mean by asserting that NM as a blog and its reader-posters have not been interested in human rights when you say: “I’m just a little surprised that the New Mandala pro-Thaksin lobby have developed a new found passionate interest in human rights.”?
I quite clearly did not assert that NM as a blog in its entirety has not taken an interest in human rights. My comments were quite clearly directed towards the “New Mandala pro-Thaksin lobby” i.e. the people who have posted the comments that I have read here at New Mandala calling for the immediate return to power of Thaksin.
As Thaksin is an acknowledged human rights abuser of the worst kind, and is widely recognized as being complicit in the murder/torture/disappearance of his opponents, it strikes me a profoundly hypocritical for these same people to then express moral outrage at the conviction of a seasoned political agitator who, for whatever reason , made an informed decision to break the law (as stupid as it may be, it is currently the law in this country) in full knowledge of the probable consequences.
Wasn’t the cheap shot your rather weak attempt to misrepresent what I actually said?
I met Tom personaly in an airport in salt lake city. He was making his first trip of many to burma. He told some great stories and from time to time we still communicate. Lies or not, Drunkard or not, The man’s heart is filled with love for the KNLA and the KNU and i assure you its genuine. His intent is nothing but genuine. If he’s unable to get the job done due to his own heavily loaded emotional baggage It only makes me want to finish what he’s started. He’s made me care about these people as well.
The more these Draconian sentences are passed down in the Kings name the more the people will become disenchanted the the monarchy. I also suggest that people who cheer the sentences are doing the Monarchy a disservice.
I am not optimistic that mass arrests will change overall public attitudes. There are too many Thais who share the “serves them right” belief about those who fall afoul of LM. I hope I am wrong, but the justice system is seriously broken in Thailand, so I don’t see a solution coming out of well publicized court cases.
Sorry, I should add a few more words of explanation, least folks here who’re not sufficiently ‘scientific’ mind won’t understand how ‘Royal Rain’ work on the said occassion.
At the time, a big storm hit Burma causing a lot of damage, but it didn’t much enter Thailand. Then story began to surface on the Net what’s the ‘secret’ of Thailand’ miraculously surviving: HMK was supposed to order the Royal Rain being made at the borders between the two countries. The Royal Rain successfully acted as a ‘(rain/water) wall’ preventing the storm coming into Thailand. A good many royal subjects actually believed the story for a while until some more clear-headed among them began to question it.
unless he floats in the air and resurrect himself. I see no reason why even HM the king is above reproach.
No kidding. Just a few years ago, many royalist people on the Net (there’re lots of them) actually believed that He foresaw the damage a big storm coming from Burma would cause this country and ordered the making of the ‘Royal Rain’ which effectively blocked that storm at the border!
It’s not floating in the air or resurrection, to be sure, but pretty impressive, don’t you think?
These ridiculously harsh sentences on LM are truly a disgrace to the Thai government. It’s just embarrassing!
@arthurson, Don’t you think that maybe, if the time comes, when ordinary (i.e. non politicians) citizens are getting thrown in jail en masse for insulting the royalty, it may lead to something good?
Since the last years Lese Majeste has been applied against any opposition. At least as worrying is that the Internal Security Act is applied ever more often now as well. Is this an indication that the current elites finds it ever more difficult to maintain their positions? Why and what will be the background of the new elites?
#49 Mungo: What do you mean by asserting that NM as a blog and its reader-posters have not been interested in human rights when you say: “I’m just a little surprised that the New Mandala pro-Thaksin lobby have developed a new found passionate interest in human rights.”?
You then say: “Can we now hope to see an outpouring of anger and revulsion in relation to the issues of the drug war killings, the Tak Bai and Krue Se massacres,…” and add more.
Maybe you should Google just a bit before making such outlandish and false claims. For example, just on a simple search by term, this on 29 Nov 08: “The violence at Kru-Se and and Tak Bai were appalling acts by the Thaksin government. The war on drugs represents an equally appalling legacy of violent repression.” A commentator on 3 July 08: “Thaksin’s administration clearly presided over numerous human rights abuses – Tak bai, kru sae and the war on drugs. For these crimes, they should be held accountable.” Another on 7 July 08: “The fact that Thaksin and Co. have not been made accountable for Tak Bai, Kru Sae, war on drugs, and have gotten away with corruption, abuse of power, tax evasion, etc is overwhelming evidence of a democracy that wasn’t functioning.”
On the war on drugs, from a NM post dated 1 July 09: “Why did so few people in Thailand condemn the 2003 “War on Drugs” at the time?” A poster’s comment from 27 Oct 2006: “Thaksin violated the very rule of law he was elected to uphold when he directed the extrajudicial slaughter of 2,500 defenseless villagers merely because they were on some policeman-hick’s blacklist.” The post on 1 Dec 06 has lots on extrajudicial killings.
Personally I feel BN lost its plot a long time ago. The problem with Sabah as Daus suggests is not new. BN being a strong and large coalition inevitably has influenced much of both the ruling and opposition coalition. For example, many in PR are formerly from BN including the PKR advisor and the Selangor Chief Minister. Recently Chua Ju Ming a former Minister has joined their ranks. People are crossing over on both sides.
Signs of BN unravelling as the author suggests is abundantly clear; the Perak fiasco over the rightful Chief Minister and the Speaker; the way the authorities have handled various deaths in custodies; the unresolved or perhaps, the lack of a satisfactory respond to several ‘body-snatchings’ alleged converts to Islam whose families did not know about their conversions who were taken by the authorities and buried as Muslims; the conversion of minors after one spouse converted to Islam; the deafening silence from the authorities over overtly racist remarks in the Malay vernacular newspapers and the insensitive transgression by Al-Islam journalists going undercover in a catholic church, receiving holy communion and the spitting out the content to photograph the wafer; and the most recent of course, the protests by about 50 Malay individuals against the construction of a temple in their middle-class neighborhood. As if to drive home their point, someone brought along the severed head of a Cow that was later abused. Although there were the authorities at the scene of the protest no one was arrested. This of course was in contrary to the other peaceful protests where people wearing black or even as in one case, a few lawyers who claimed to be on duty were arrested.
But I would suggest that this is not new. Acts of provocation to drive home the point that multi-ethnic Malaysia as a powder keg waiting to ignite and that multi-religions only add to the fragility or sensitivity of society and requires firm control have been around for some years now. BN has been able to prolong their rule since at least the late 1990’s where bigmen regimes in the region had come to an end. Ten years on, BN is still in power. In 2004, not only did BN win the elections, they won it with such a resounding victory. The question today of course is how did they end up with such a small margin of victory in the 2008 general elections and how come they have lost all but one by-election in the last one year?
As the latest incident shows however, there is so much that needs to be done in Malaysia despite whoever wins. The decades of bigoted politics is finally showing what persistent political will can produce. If the opposition succeeds as the ruling government in the next general assembly, they will need to introduce major reforms that address the fractures that seem to not only affect the fundamental core of Malaysian society, but also those of her institutions. A good place to start will be the debate on the wisdom of a burgeoning Syariah system that appears to promote different rights for Malaysian Muslims in society.
#49 Mungo you are quite right about the Thaksin HR violations for which he should go on trial not Da Torpedo
You are also correct to evoke revisionist historians who would erase the truth genocides massacres ethnic cleansing with lies just like Thai’s who can act just like Nazi’s in the name of defending M R N …No wonder our colonial forbears talked of oriental despotism and ‘exterminate the brutes’ of course funded by the CIA…Thai Civilization what a good idea!
my reading is that Darunee was striving to protect the monarchy by describing events and history from other countries whose royal families failed to heed the wishes of their populations, obviously wishing the Thai royal family is not led into similar situations.
the way the privy council, Thai military and their associates have and are using the Thai royal family to preserve their wealth and power is shameful and detrimental to the reputation and continued position of the royal family in Thai society.
those that love and respect the King and wish for his family to continue in their high position should heed the warnings by Khun Darunee and others brave enough to speak out.
It is utterly barbaric to sentence anyone to 18 years in prison for insulting royalty. This has got to be bad for Thailand’s image, and tourism, and foreign investment and international trade, because it smacks of “Oriental despotism” of the most draconian sort. Right now the lese majeste law seems to be used primarily as a political weapon among the elites, but this may soon change and there appears to be an increasing level of frustration by the powers that be in the Privy Council that they are losing control and will need to crack down again. Plus, no one can really predict when the next foreigner will be arrested and charged.
A renewed period of repression seems to be in the offing. The floodgates will have to come crashing down when the Crown Prince assumes the throne, which is a virtual certainty, because there is so much gossip floating around Thailand about him that simply cannot be contained. Therefore one has to assume there will be hundreds of arrests in the next couple of years. An American friend reported a very surprising recent event to me: a Thai woman he had met in Chiang Mai took a picture of the Queen and drew an X across her face! And she did this in a public place! How many other red shirt supporters like this woman share her sentiments? It is scary to think about.
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Ceasing Burma’s ceasefires?
“Four ethnic ceasefire groups in Burma’s north have got together and decided to retaliate against the ruling junta, if it starts any offensive against any member of the alliance, said local sources.
The groups in the military alliance are the Kachin Independence Organization (KIO) based in Kachin State and Northeast Shan State, Mongla-based National Democratic Alliance Army-Eastern Shan State (NDAA-ESS), Kokang ceasefire group and United Wa State Army (UWSA), said KIO sources.”
so this is from 2009.08.11
http://www.kachinnews.com/index.php/news/1034-four-ethnic-ceasefire-groups-to-take-on-junta-in-event-of-war.html
Ceasing Burma’s ceasefires?
Greetings Nich:
I think that there was an alliance or agreement between the 4 groups that came out of the Burma Communist Party (BCP) namely UWSA, Kokang, Mongla and NDA-K. This seems to be the Peace and Democracy Front.
But I also recall reading in the last few months, since the border guard proposal came out, of an mutual defense alliance between Kokang, UWSA, Mongla and KIO. Unfortunately I don’t have the time to do a through search to find the reference to the second group. And in a sense I do not think it would matter because it was likely to have been a news article and not some sort of official communique. The point being that sometimes the news reports get a bit lost in the alphabet soup of ceasefire group politics and might contain some errors. I will send out some emails in the hope that I can get someone with more information to take a look at this an clarify it.
Best,
Josh
Ceasing Burma’s ceasefires?
Hi Ge Deng,
Thanks for your message.
I had thought the same but today, when I was putting this piece together, all of the sources I was checking were listing the NDA-K as part of this alliance. I have now gone back to re-check and can find some reports referring to the NDA-K and some to the KIO as the fourth MPDF member.
This looks the most definitive source on the matter and in translator note 2 it confirms your comment.
Ge Deng, I certainly expect you are right about this and my initial post is wrong.
Can anyone offer further information? I am very happy to provide space for relevant PDFs or other materials that may be helpful to the wider reading public.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
Ceasing Burma’s ceasefires?
Greetings:
I thought the NDA-K had agreed to the border guard proposal and that the Myanmar Peace and Democracy Front (MPDF) was UWSA, Mongla, KIO and Kokang. Above you list the NDA-K as part of the MPDF and do not list the KIA/KIO. Is that an error?
Thanks,
Ge Deng
Thailand’s royal disgrace
#52 Ralph Kramden -What do you mean by asserting that NM as a blog and its reader-posters have not been interested in human rights when you say: “I’m just a little surprised that the New Mandala pro-Thaksin lobby have developed a new found passionate interest in human rights.”?
I quite clearly did not assert that NM as a blog in its entirety has not taken an interest in human rights. My comments were quite clearly directed towards the “New Mandala pro-Thaksin lobby” i.e. the people who have posted the comments that I have read here at New Mandala calling for the immediate return to power of Thaksin.
As Thaksin is an acknowledged human rights abuser of the worst kind, and is widely recognized as being complicit in the murder/torture/disappearance of his opponents, it strikes me a profoundly hypocritical for these same people to then express moral outrage at the conviction of a seasoned political agitator who, for whatever reason , made an informed decision to break the law (as stupid as it may be, it is currently the law in this country) in full knowledge of the probable consequences.
Wasn’t the cheap shot your rather weak attempt to misrepresent what I actually said?
A glossy feature on Thomas Bleming
I met Tom personaly in an airport in salt lake city. He was making his first trip of many to burma. He told some great stories and from time to time we still communicate. Lies or not, Drunkard or not, The man’s heart is filled with love for the KNLA and the KNU and i assure you its genuine. His intent is nothing but genuine. If he’s unable to get the job done due to his own heavily loaded emotional baggage It only makes me want to finish what he’s started. He’s made me care about these people as well.
Thailand’s royal disgrace
The more these Draconian sentences are passed down in the Kings name the more the people will become disenchanted the the monarchy. I also suggest that people who cheer the sentences are doing the Monarchy a disservice.
Thailand and lese majeste
@macca
I am not optimistic that mass arrests will change overall public attitudes. There are too many Thais who share the “serves them right” belief about those who fall afoul of LM. I hope I am wrong, but the justice system is seriously broken in Thailand, so I don’t see a solution coming out of well publicized court cases.
Thailand’s royal disgrace
Sorry, I should add a few more words of explanation, least folks here who’re not sufficiently ‘scientific’ mind won’t understand how ‘Royal Rain’ work on the said occassion.
At the time, a big storm hit Burma causing a lot of damage, but it didn’t much enter Thailand. Then story began to surface on the Net what’s the ‘secret’ of Thailand’ miraculously surviving: HMK was supposed to order the Royal Rain being made at the borders between the two countries. The Royal Rain successfully acted as a ‘(rain/water) wall’ preventing the storm coming into Thailand. A good many royal subjects actually believed the story for a while until some more clear-headed among them began to question it.
Thailand’s royal disgrace
unless he floats in the air and resurrect himself. I see no reason why even HM the king is above reproach.
No kidding. Just a few years ago, many royalist people on the Net (there’re lots of them) actually believed that He foresaw the damage a big storm coming from Burma would cause this country and ordered the making of the ‘Royal Rain’ which effectively blocked that storm at the border!
It’s not floating in the air or resurrection, to be sure, but pretty impressive, don’t you think?
Thailand and lese majeste
These ridiculously harsh sentences on LM are truly a disgrace to the Thai government. It’s just embarrassing!
@arthurson, Don’t you think that maybe, if the time comes, when ordinary (i.e. non politicians) citizens are getting thrown in jail en masse for insulting the royalty, it may lead to something good?
Thailand and lese majeste
Since the last years Lese Majeste has been applied against any opposition. At least as worrying is that the Internal Security Act is applied ever more often now as well. Is this an indication that the current elites finds it ever more difficult to maintain their positions? Why and what will be the background of the new elites?
Thailand’s royal disgrace
Taro, unless he floats in the air and resurrect himself. I see no reason why even HM the king is above reproach.
Men are created equal. He might be the most important man in the country, and we are greatful for his deeds.
Still that doesn’t give him immunity from humanity. And making mistakes are a HUMAN QUALITY.
What kind of man do you see the king? An omnipotent GOD, or a benevolent human being?
Or perhaps you doubt his ability to defend himself, and that saw the need to throw a fence of steel around the man?
There is fear in your heart, fear breads hatred, hatred breeds more hatred. which will lead ultimately to REVENGE.
You are hurt, because you lack understanding to conquer that fear.
As I said.
How do you see the king as?
This will be the most important step towards understanding.
And with understanding, brings clarity.
Thailand’s royal disgrace
#49 Mungo: What do you mean by asserting that NM as a blog and its reader-posters have not been interested in human rights when you say: “I’m just a little surprised that the New Mandala pro-Thaksin lobby have developed a new found passionate interest in human rights.”?
You then say: “Can we now hope to see an outpouring of anger and revulsion in relation to the issues of the drug war killings, the Tak Bai and Krue Se massacres,…” and add more.
Maybe you should Google just a bit before making such outlandish and false claims. For example, just on a simple search by term, this on 29 Nov 08: “The violence at Kru-Se and and Tak Bai were appalling acts by the Thaksin government. The war on drugs represents an equally appalling legacy of violent repression.” A commentator on 3 July 08: “Thaksin’s administration clearly presided over numerous human rights abuses – Tak bai, kru sae and the war on drugs. For these crimes, they should be held accountable.” Another on 7 July 08: “The fact that Thaksin and Co. have not been made accountable for Tak Bai, Kru Sae, war on drugs, and have gotten away with corruption, abuse of power, tax evasion, etc is overwhelming evidence of a democracy that wasn’t functioning.”
On the war on drugs, from a NM post dated 1 July 09: “Why did so few people in Thailand condemn the 2003 “War on Drugs” at the time?” A poster’s comment from 27 Oct 2006: “Thaksin violated the very rule of law he was elected to uphold when he directed the extrajudicial slaughter of 2,500 defenseless villagers merely because they were on some policeman-hick’s blacklist.” The post on 1 Dec 06 has lots on extrajudicial killings.
etc. etc. So what’s the point of your cheap shot?
King Bhumibol expresses his worries
I personally put it down to being riven by too many contradictions.
Barisan Nasional losing the plot after 52 years
New Mandela,
Personally I feel BN lost its plot a long time ago. The problem with Sabah as Daus suggests is not new. BN being a strong and large coalition inevitably has influenced much of both the ruling and opposition coalition. For example, many in PR are formerly from BN including the PKR advisor and the Selangor Chief Minister. Recently Chua Ju Ming a former Minister has joined their ranks. People are crossing over on both sides.
Signs of BN unravelling as the author suggests is abundantly clear; the Perak fiasco over the rightful Chief Minister and the Speaker; the way the authorities have handled various deaths in custodies; the unresolved or perhaps, the lack of a satisfactory respond to several ‘body-snatchings’ alleged converts to Islam whose families did not know about their conversions who were taken by the authorities and buried as Muslims; the conversion of minors after one spouse converted to Islam; the deafening silence from the authorities over overtly racist remarks in the Malay vernacular newspapers and the insensitive transgression by Al-Islam journalists going undercover in a catholic church, receiving holy communion and the spitting out the content to photograph the wafer; and the most recent of course, the protests by about 50 Malay individuals against the construction of a temple in their middle-class neighborhood. As if to drive home their point, someone brought along the severed head of a Cow that was later abused. Although there were the authorities at the scene of the protest no one was arrested. This of course was in contrary to the other peaceful protests where people wearing black or even as in one case, a few lawyers who claimed to be on duty were arrested.
But I would suggest that this is not new. Acts of provocation to drive home the point that multi-ethnic Malaysia as a powder keg waiting to ignite and that multi-religions only add to the fragility or sensitivity of society and requires firm control have been around for some years now. BN has been able to prolong their rule since at least the late 1990’s where bigmen regimes in the region had come to an end. Ten years on, BN is still in power. In 2004, not only did BN win the elections, they won it with such a resounding victory. The question today of course is how did they end up with such a small margin of victory in the 2008 general elections and how come they have lost all but one by-election in the last one year?
As the latest incident shows however, there is so much that needs to be done in Malaysia despite whoever wins. The decades of bigoted politics is finally showing what persistent political will can produce. If the opposition succeeds as the ruling government in the next general assembly, they will need to introduce major reforms that address the fractures that seem to not only affect the fundamental core of Malaysian society, but also those of her institutions. A good place to start will be the debate on the wisdom of a burgeoning Syariah system that appears to promote different rights for Malaysian Muslims in society.
Thailand’s royal disgrace
#49 Mungo you are quite right about the Thaksin HR violations for which he should go on trial not Da Torpedo
You are also correct to evoke revisionist historians who would erase the truth genocides massacres ethnic cleansing with lies just like Thai’s who can act just like Nazi’s in the name of defending M R N …No wonder our colonial forbears talked of oriental despotism and ‘exterminate the brutes’ of course funded by the CIA…Thai Civilization what a good idea!
Thailand’s royal disgrace
my reading is that Darunee was striving to protect the monarchy by describing events and history from other countries whose royal families failed to heed the wishes of their populations, obviously wishing the Thai royal family is not led into similar situations.
the way the privy council, Thai military and their associates have and are using the Thai royal family to preserve their wealth and power is shameful and detrimental to the reputation and continued position of the royal family in Thai society.
those that love and respect the King and wish for his family to continue in their high position should heed the warnings by Khun Darunee and others brave enough to speak out.
Review of Taylor
For some comparison of perspectives, there are also reviews of Taylor’s book by Dave Mathieson and Ashley South.
Thailand and lese majeste
It is utterly barbaric to sentence anyone to 18 years in prison for insulting royalty. This has got to be bad for Thailand’s image, and tourism, and foreign investment and international trade, because it smacks of “Oriental despotism” of the most draconian sort. Right now the lese majeste law seems to be used primarily as a political weapon among the elites, but this may soon change and there appears to be an increasing level of frustration by the powers that be in the Privy Council that they are losing control and will need to crack down again. Plus, no one can really predict when the next foreigner will be arrested and charged.
A renewed period of repression seems to be in the offing. The floodgates will have to come crashing down when the Crown Prince assumes the throne, which is a virtual certainty, because there is so much gossip floating around Thailand about him that simply cannot be contained. Therefore one has to assume there will be hundreds of arrests in the next couple of years. An American friend reported a very surprising recent event to me: a Thai woman he had met in Chiang Mai took a picture of the Queen and drew an X across her face! And she did this in a public place! How many other red shirt supporters like this woman share her sentiments? It is scary to think about.