oh come on Mungo. Holocaust revisionism – really, truly?
Thaksin’s role in Tak Bai is hardly clear. Recall at Kru Se that themilitary acted against the orders of politicians.
This is not to say that he didn’t say the abhorrent things you say. However, we have to admit that the techniques used by the military before. The stripping, kicking and so on looked similar to 1976 and 1992. Under the Democrats, the military has used similar techniques – recall the Rohinga. There have been tons of atrocities in the south over the years.
The war on drugs was one of the policies that the Bangkok middle class loved. Recall the huge opinion polls in his favour. The king called for the war on drugs and he never apologised. Nor have the police or the military.
The military, police and palace have not apologised for atrocities of the past, and there have been plenty.
None of this is to absolve Thaksin of his actions in these reprehensible actions during the time he was in charge. However, it is necessary to see this neglect of human rights and the violent use of the state’s repressive forces is not a Thaksin trait but one of the elite more generally, often supported by the fearful middle class.
Why do Malaysians keep putting BN (UMNO) back in power? That’s the million dollar question?
For many, it is obvious that UMNO/BN is a corrupt political animal that has no qualms of using race and religion or any means to stay in power but it seems for the moment, it is not the majority.
Since before independence, different groups have been trying to provide a narrative for Malaysia. The Malayan Communist Party, The Islamic Party, The Socialist Front, The Democratic Action Party..many more. However, the narrative provided by UMNO led BN seems to have been most potent. Malaysians seem to behave like the abused wife hoping that the abusive husband will change – remembering the good times they once had.
As example, it is mind-boggling that resource rich but poorest states of Sabah and Sarawak voted lock, stock and barrel for UMNO/BN. Hence, kicking BN out will not be so easy. It does rule with both a big stick and lots of carrots. A firm resolve is needed from Malaysians not too give in unless BN reforms substantively.
I am of the opinion that UMNO is now at its weakest and has reached its historical end as it is no longer able to command the loyalty of the Malay-Muslim community, hence the determined show of force in race and religion.
It is therefore critical that the opposition parties reach out to as many Malaysians as possible and provide a narrative of a better Malaysia and concretely deliver in states where they govern.
Your opinion is truly abhorrent, Taro, though you have every right to express yourself as free speech is valued in a democratic society… Foul language is just matter of a bad taste, one cannot get jailed for swear words, nor should get jailed for the content of his/her pronouncements. It is just not civilized…
The 20-year ceasefire status with the cease-fire groups had been left too long while the junta was busy fighting a bigger fire at its front door – its own opposition of Burmese – the students, the monks, the general public and its close call with economic catastrophe. With the opposition suppressed and political prisoners in “safe-custody”, and its new found wealth, the junta now turns to dealing with the growing influence of China in the Northern Shan States. The “Sino-phobia” (Wai Moe – Kokang Conflict Highlights Tatmadaw Xenophobia
[http://www.irrawaddy.org/article.php?art_id=16713#box])
of the junta is an instilled in the minds of all the Burmese. There is an inborn belief by Burmese in the prophecy which has been handed down through the centuries that said: “China oppress the Shan, the Shan gets squashed by the Chinese, and the remaining Burmans retreat to the West” – West means the western bank of the Irrawaddy. The junta’s red-carpet treatment of US Senator Jim Webb had surprised many long-time Burma watchers. The question that was asked was whether the junta was sending China a signal.
The move against groups that have strong ties with China seems now a much louder rattle. The elections next year is not the main reason behind the Kokang offences along the border with China. The junta can still postpone the elections, after all they have ignored the need for one anyway.
David Brown #65
“its fair to say that some governments before and after Thaksin were appointed/proxy for the military but I assume we can agree that Thaksin was not aligned with or partnering with beholden to the military (although he would have to be careful of assassination by them)”
Would you then suggest that in the aftermath of the Tak Bai massacre that Thaksin was under duress when he gave his full support to the military and contemptuously suggested that victims had died merely “because they were already weak from fasting during the month of Ramadan.”? To my knowledge he has never apologized for this stance, and has not expressed any regret for the deaths even from the ‘safety’ of exile.
I notice that you are careful to avoid any reference to the police in your attempt to absolve Thaksin of guilt for the atrocities committed during his tenure. Do you therefore assert that the police were not involved in the murders of almost 3,000 people during the war on drugs? Or that they too were a law unto themselves and beyond the influence of the benevolent Pol. Col. Thaksin? Strange then that, from exile, Thaksin should gleefully take credit for Thailand’s bloodiest atrocity of modern times- “Everyone who benefitted from the Bt30 healthcare scheme for all, or those who got their children back after I waged a war on drugs,……” I hear no expression of regret for the deaths or of any sympathy for the children and families of those killed.
In my opinion your attempt to whitewash Thaksin in this regard smacks of dangerous fanaticism and is akin to the holocaust revisionism I mentioned in an early post. You should be deeply ashamed.
Da Torpedo’s 18 year sentence for Lese Majeste: Thailand back to the Dark Ages
Please consider writing letters to support her case
By Giles Ji Ungpakorn
Last month Daranee Charnchoengsilpakul (known in Thailand by her nick name “Da Torpedo”) was sentenced to 18 years in prison for “lese majeste” after a secret trial in Bangkok. The press were excluded from the trial and we have no way of knowing how the case was conducted.
Da Torpedo never committed an act of violence. She never killed anyone or destroyed anyone’s property. She is a pro-democracy activist who made speeches in public. She has been jailed for 18 years for making these speeches. In Thailand, army officers and state officials who commit violent crimes against the people are free to enjoy power and privileges. The worst crime in the eyes of the Thai ruling elites, is to think for oneself and to express those thoughts. This is why Da is in prison. This is why Suwicha Takor and others are also in prison on lese majeste charges.
What is also shocking is the way that there has been complete silence from so-called “human rights activists” or NGOs and academics in Thailand about what has been going on. This can only be described as shameful. Amnesty International’s long term policy of turning its back on Thai prisoners of conscience, jailed over lese majeste, is also appalling. It throws into question the role of this organisation.
What you can do
In my view, there is little point in writing letters to the Thai authorities about this.
However, what would be more useful is to write to Amnesty International and demand that they start taking up and campaigning for lese majeste prisoners in Thailand.
You can also send Daranee Charnchoengsilpakul ( “Da Torpedo”) a post card:
Yes, reg, let’s wait for a geriatric to decide if he has any mercy left in his heart. It’d be a waste of time campaigning against the law. See what happens to Darunee in 18 months. Or do you mean in 6 months – after all, she’s already been in jail more than a year.
Then compare her case with Boonyuen Prasertying, who was charged with lese majeste for speeches she made at a pro-Thaksin rally at Sanam Luang. She turned herself in to the police on 15 August 2008. She confessed to the charges and on 6 November 2008 was sentenced to 12 years in prison. Her sentence was reduced to six years as a result of her confession. Maybe she’ll be let out soon? She’s done more than a year.
Or compare with Suwicha Thakor who was arrested on 14 January 2009 and has been in jail since, serving the 20 year/reduced to 10 for pleading guilty, since early April. He’s done almost 8 months.
How come you still have not answered my question….
why are you not angry at the coup makers, the Privy Council, and the *nudge nudge wink wink* complicit elites that were behind the 2006 Coup in September that brought the image of the monarch front and center, giving the impression that this coup was ordered by the Palace.
And why are those people not being charged with LM? Though they didn’t mention the King and Queen as being behind the coup, the soldiers tied “yellow” ribbons on their weapons….
Wrong place and wrong time? Twenty first century, planet Earth. Since when does one class of people demand superiority over others, and since when do still others have a legitimate right to enforce this class division?
The entire LM issue, as ugly and atavistic as it seems, somewhat pales in comparison to the overall issue of man’s inhumanity against man. That is the issue. Being royally magnaminous to excuse such wrongful sentencing is a poor excuse for humanity.
So now it’s not about LM laws anymore? Make up your mind you people.
If Da Torpedo said something else and somewhere else, then NO She doesn’t deserve 18 years in jail. But what she said, and when she said, and where she said was at the wrong place and wrong time. She should not have spoken to the angry crowd at that moment, when she knew it could lead something uncontrollable at all. What a smart b….
so YES she deserved 18 years in jail. I stand by my opinion.
We already have golden arches, just not THE golden arches. Macburger on Pansodan Street! It’s now changed it’s name to Nice Burger though, perhaps the long arm of the law caught up with it.
Unfortunately I can’t find the link to a story that was in the Myanmar Times a few years ago about finding the best burger in Yangon, but I remember the author threw up on a bus the day after eating Macburger. You’ve been warned…….
We also have Tokyo Fried Chicken and California Fried Chicken.
This wee beast is recieving far more care and attention than any other baby born to Chinese immigrant parents in Thailand.
Children denied citizenship, schooling and health care.
Quite bizzare really, but it is the Thai-way!
Thanks Jim. Been a bit busy of late. Lots of stuff on the “old skillet” and looking forward to heading out shortly . The world is my backyard and I am quite fortunate to have had the pleasure to have met you in Salt Lake City when I was changing planes to fly onto Los Angeles (LAX) at the time.
Rest assured I am still active on the international scene and I hope to be for many years to come.
Am glad that you are doing what you can to assist the Karens. I tried to do what I could and at least I was able to write a little about them and share my experiences with the world at large.
Send me your e-mail address when you can and again thanks!
What a pathetic show… Taro is using the classic cheap rethoric…
You’d notice that he never answers on the substance, but always on the side, and using the mirror technique (sending back your question).
(Hey Taro, as westerners we have studied the greek philosophers…. You can fool your fellow country men, who are usually mesmerized by such techniques. But you can’t fool us).
His only answer (definitive), linked to the topic, is : “Da Torpedo deserved it”. Voila. Case closed. Eat it raw, and send a postcard for the details. 😉
Since 2007, I debunk on my blog, on a daily basis, this kind of rethoric, used by thai officials, bureaucrats, politicians… So really, It makes me laugh.
Unfortunately, I came to the conclusion that it’s pointless to try to exchange ideas with such people…
Taro will never understand the bottom line of the issue : there is only one word for a sentence of 18 years of jail for a speech. This word is “insanity”.
Lese-majeste or not, Thailand or not, King or not King… this is totally irrelevant.
I repeat for the deafs : 18 years of jail for a speech, whatever the speech is, is insanity.
And another time, for those who have a weak brain : you can not justify a sentence of 18 years of jail for a speech. Never. Ever.
It’s adamantine. It’s a flawless inference. Irrefutable. Hard as a diamond.
Taro will break his teeth on it, over and over again. He is and will remain wrong.
This is a typical Thai media circus which you see it in everyday life, if you are unlucky enough to understand Thai language. The same thing applies to “half Japanese boy desperately looking for his dad” or “a guy who has a snake wife”. Sentimental news sells just like spicy Thai food.
The only thing I hope is that the little panda and his mom will return to China soon! (case closed)
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Thailand’s royal disgrace
oh come on Mungo. Holocaust revisionism – really, truly?
Thaksin’s role in Tak Bai is hardly clear. Recall at Kru Se that themilitary acted against the orders of politicians.
This is not to say that he didn’t say the abhorrent things you say. However, we have to admit that the techniques used by the military before. The stripping, kicking and so on looked similar to 1976 and 1992. Under the Democrats, the military has used similar techniques – recall the Rohinga. There have been tons of atrocities in the south over the years.
The war on drugs was one of the policies that the Bangkok middle class loved. Recall the huge opinion polls in his favour. The king called for the war on drugs and he never apologised. Nor have the police or the military.
The military, police and palace have not apologised for atrocities of the past, and there have been plenty.
None of this is to absolve Thaksin of his actions in these reprehensible actions during the time he was in charge. However, it is necessary to see this neglect of human rights and the violent use of the state’s repressive forces is not a Thaksin trait but one of the elite more generally, often supported by the fearful middle class.
Holocaust revisionism, jeez….
Barisan Nasional losing the plot after 52 years
Why do Malaysians keep putting BN (UMNO) back in power? That’s the million dollar question?
For many, it is obvious that UMNO/BN is a corrupt political animal that has no qualms of using race and religion or any means to stay in power but it seems for the moment, it is not the majority.
Since before independence, different groups have been trying to provide a narrative for Malaysia. The Malayan Communist Party, The Islamic Party, The Socialist Front, The Democratic Action Party..many more. However, the narrative provided by UMNO led BN seems to have been most potent. Malaysians seem to behave like the abused wife hoping that the abusive husband will change – remembering the good times they once had.
As example, it is mind-boggling that resource rich but poorest states of Sabah and Sarawak voted lock, stock and barrel for UMNO/BN. Hence, kicking BN out will not be so easy. It does rule with both a big stick and lots of carrots. A firm resolve is needed from Malaysians not too give in unless BN reforms substantively.
I am of the opinion that UMNO is now at its weakest and has reached its historical end as it is no longer able to command the loyalty of the Malay-Muslim community, hence the determined show of force in race and religion.
It is therefore critical that the opposition parties reach out to as many Malaysians as possible and provide a narrative of a better Malaysia and concretely deliver in states where they govern.
Thailand’s royal disgrace
Your opinion is truly abhorrent, Taro, though you have every right to express yourself as free speech is valued in a democratic society… Foul language is just matter of a bad taste, one cannot get jailed for swear words, nor should get jailed for the content of his/her pronouncements. It is just not civilized…
Battle field Shan State
“SINO-PHOBIA”
The 20-year ceasefire status with the cease-fire groups had been left too long while the junta was busy fighting a bigger fire at its front door – its own opposition of Burmese – the students, the monks, the general public and its close call with economic catastrophe. With the opposition suppressed and political prisoners in “safe-custody”, and its new found wealth, the junta now turns to dealing with the growing influence of China in the Northern Shan States. The “Sino-phobia” (Wai Moe – Kokang Conflict Highlights Tatmadaw Xenophobia
[http://www.irrawaddy.org/article.php?art_id=16713#box])
of the junta is an instilled in the minds of all the Burmese. There is an inborn belief by Burmese in the prophecy which has been handed down through the centuries that said: “China oppress the Shan, the Shan gets squashed by the Chinese, and the remaining Burmans retreat to the West” – West means the western bank of the Irrawaddy. The junta’s red-carpet treatment of US Senator Jim Webb had surprised many long-time Burma watchers. The question that was asked was whether the junta was sending China a signal.
The move against groups that have strong ties with China seems now a much louder rattle. The elections next year is not the main reason behind the Kokang offences along the border with China. The junta can still postpone the elections, after all they have ignored the need for one anyway.
A last frontier for KFC
comparable FARE, Nick, be fair.
Thailand’s royal disgrace
David Brown #65
“its fair to say that some governments before and after Thaksin were appointed/proxy for the military but I assume we can agree that Thaksin was not aligned with or partnering with beholden to the military (although he would have to be careful of assassination by them)”
Would you then suggest that in the aftermath of the Tak Bai massacre that Thaksin was under duress when he gave his full support to the military and contemptuously suggested that victims had died merely “because they were already weak from fasting during the month of Ramadan.”? To my knowledge he has never apologized for this stance, and has not expressed any regret for the deaths even from the ‘safety’ of exile.
I notice that you are careful to avoid any reference to the police in your attempt to absolve Thaksin of guilt for the atrocities committed during his tenure. Do you therefore assert that the police were not involved in the murders of almost 3,000 people during the war on drugs? Or that they too were a law unto themselves and beyond the influence of the benevolent Pol. Col. Thaksin? Strange then that, from exile, Thaksin should gleefully take credit for Thailand’s bloodiest atrocity of modern times- “Everyone who benefitted from the Bt30 healthcare scheme for all, or those who got their children back after I waged a war on drugs,……” I hear no expression of regret for the deaths or of any sympathy for the children and families of those killed.
In my opinion your attempt to whitewash Thaksin in this regard smacks of dangerous fanaticism and is akin to the holocaust revisionism I mentioned in an early post. You should be deeply ashamed.
Thailand’s royal disgrace
Da Torpedo’s 18 year sentence for Lese Majeste: Thailand back to the Dark Ages
Please consider writing letters to support her case
By Giles Ji Ungpakorn
Last month Daranee Charnchoengsilpakul (known in Thailand by her nick name “Da Torpedo”) was sentenced to 18 years in prison for “lese majeste” after a secret trial in Bangkok. The press were excluded from the trial and we have no way of knowing how the case was conducted.
Da Torpedo never committed an act of violence. She never killed anyone or destroyed anyone’s property. She is a pro-democracy activist who made speeches in public. She has been jailed for 18 years for making these speeches. In Thailand, army officers and state officials who commit violent crimes against the people are free to enjoy power and privileges. The worst crime in the eyes of the Thai ruling elites, is to think for oneself and to express those thoughts. This is why Da is in prison. This is why Suwicha Takor and others are also in prison on lese majeste charges.
What is also shocking is the way that there has been complete silence from so-called “human rights activists” or NGOs and academics in Thailand about what has been going on. This can only be described as shameful. Amnesty International’s long term policy of turning its back on Thai prisoners of conscience, jailed over lese majeste, is also appalling. It throws into question the role of this organisation.
What you can do
In my view, there is little point in writing letters to the Thai authorities about this.
However, what would be more useful is to write to Amnesty International and demand that they start taking up and campaigning for lese majeste prisoners in Thailand.
You can also send Daranee Charnchoengsilpakul ( “Da Torpedo”) a post card:
The Central Women’s Prison, Klong Prem,
Ngarm Wong Wan Road,
Lat Yaow, Chatuchak
Bangkok 10900
For further details please go to: http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/
—
р╣Гр╕И р╕нр╕╢р╣Кр╕Зр╕ар╕▓р╕Бр╕гр╕Ур╣М Ji Ungpakorn
+44(0)7817034432
http://siamrd.blog.co.uk/
http://redsiam.wordpress.com/
http://wdpress.blog.co.uk/
Thailand’s royal disgrace
Yes, reg, let’s wait for a geriatric to decide if he has any mercy left in his heart. It’d be a waste of time campaigning against the law. See what happens to Darunee in 18 months. Or do you mean in 6 months – after all, she’s already been in jail more than a year.
Then compare her case with Boonyuen Prasertying, who was charged with lese majeste for speeches she made at a pro-Thaksin rally at Sanam Luang. She turned herself in to the police on 15 August 2008. She confessed to the charges and on 6 November 2008 was sentenced to 12 years in prison. Her sentence was reduced to six years as a result of her confession. Maybe she’ll be let out soon? She’s done more than a year.
Or compare with Suwicha Thakor who was arrested on 14 January 2009 and has been in jail since, serving the 20 year/reduced to 10 for pleading guilty, since early April. He’s done almost 8 months.
Cases are at http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/decidedcases/ and at http://lmwatch.blogspot.com/
Thailand’s royal disgrace
Dear Taro,
How come you still have not answered my question….
why are you not angry at the coup makers, the Privy Council, and the *nudge nudge wink wink* complicit elites that were behind the 2006 Coup in September that brought the image of the monarch front and center, giving the impression that this coup was ordered by the Palace.
And why are those people not being charged with LM? Though they didn’t mention the King and Queen as being behind the coup, the soldiers tied “yellow” ribbons on their weapons….
Thailand’s royal disgrace
Wrong place and wrong time? Twenty first century, planet Earth. Since when does one class of people demand superiority over others, and since when do still others have a legitimate right to enforce this class division?
The entire LM issue, as ugly and atavistic as it seems, somewhat pales in comparison to the overall issue of man’s inhumanity against man. That is the issue. Being royally magnaminous to excuse such wrongful sentencing is a poor excuse for humanity.
Thailand’s royal disgrace
Maybe we should all just wait and see if a certain higher authority thinks it is advisable for her to even serve 18 months.
Thailand’s royal disgrace
So now it’s not about LM laws anymore? Make up your mind you people.
If Da Torpedo said something else and somewhere else, then NO She doesn’t deserve 18 years in jail. But what she said, and when she said, and where she said was at the wrong place and wrong time. She should not have spoken to the angry crowd at that moment, when she knew it could lead something uncontrollable at all. What a smart b….
so YES she deserved 18 years in jail. I stand by my opinion.
Why?
According to this “news” site, the panda is now the head of the national police.
http://www.notthenation.com/pages/news/getnews.php?id=819
Ah, sweet satire. A reflection of sad, sad reality.
Why?
i’ve read somewhere that after being the toy for a tot, of course, the prince’s son, noone’s allow to touch the cub no more.
it’s not a common cub now.
A last frontier for KFC
There’s a Popeye’s Chicken in Mae Sot as well, just a stones throw from the DK Hotel.
A last frontier for KFC
We already have golden arches, just not THE golden arches. Macburger on Pansodan Street! It’s now changed it’s name to Nice Burger though, perhaps the long arm of the law caught up with it.
Unfortunately I can’t find the link to a story that was in the Myanmar Times a few years ago about finding the best burger in Yangon, but I remember the author threw up on a bus the day after eating Macburger. You’ve been warned…….
We also have Tokyo Fried Chicken and California Fried Chicken.
Why?
This wee beast is recieving far more care and attention than any other baby born to Chinese immigrant parents in Thailand.
Children denied citizenship, schooling and health care.
Quite bizzare really, but it is the Thai-way!
A glossy feature on Thomas Bleming
Thanks Jim. Been a bit busy of late. Lots of stuff on the “old skillet” and looking forward to heading out shortly . The world is my backyard and I am quite fortunate to have had the pleasure to have met you in Salt Lake City when I was changing planes to fly onto Los Angeles (LAX) at the time.
Rest assured I am still active on the international scene and I hope to be for many years to come.
Am glad that you are doing what you can to assist the Karens. I tried to do what I could and at least I was able to write a little about them and share my experiences with the world at large.
Send me your e-mail address when you can and again thanks!
Thailand’s royal disgrace
What a pathetic show… Taro is using the classic cheap rethoric…
You’d notice that he never answers on the substance, but always on the side, and using the mirror technique (sending back your question).
(Hey Taro, as westerners we have studied the greek philosophers…. You can fool your fellow country men, who are usually mesmerized by such techniques. But you can’t fool us).
His only answer (definitive), linked to the topic, is : “Da Torpedo deserved it”. Voila. Case closed. Eat it raw, and send a postcard for the details. 😉
Since 2007, I debunk on my blog, on a daily basis, this kind of rethoric, used by thai officials, bureaucrats, politicians… So really, It makes me laugh.
Unfortunately, I came to the conclusion that it’s pointless to try to exchange ideas with such people…
Taro will never understand the bottom line of the issue : there is only one word for a sentence of 18 years of jail for a speech. This word is “insanity”.
Lese-majeste or not, Thailand or not, King or not King… this is totally irrelevant.
I repeat for the deafs : 18 years of jail for a speech, whatever the speech is, is insanity.
And another time, for those who have a weak brain : you can not justify a sentence of 18 years of jail for a speech. Never. Ever.
It’s adamantine. It’s a flawless inference. Irrefutable. Hard as a diamond.
Taro will break his teeth on it, over and over again. He is and will remain wrong.
Why?
This is a typical Thai media circus which you see it in everyday life, if you are unlucky enough to understand Thai language. The same thing applies to “half Japanese boy desperately looking for his dad” or “a guy who has a snake wife”. Sentimental news sells just like spicy Thai food.
The only thing I hope is that the little panda and his mom will return to China soon! (case closed)