What I meant by “multi-ethnic Malaysia as a powder keg waiting to ignite and that multi-religions only add to the fragility or sensitivity of society” is that this is the story that some would have people believe. And since the government does control a large part of public representation, it is a pervasive idea. You read about it in school, you hear about it being discuss only during the general elections and only by certain people, you are told from a young age that this is a sensitive topic. The authorities have a law to refrain you if you discuss these ‘sensitive’ topics, and so on. These topics are not just labeled sensitive but they are treated as dangerous.
And perhaps, from this, it has for a long time been the conventional believe that BN represented security and stability. That is of course all unravelling now.
Following closer current issues in Malaysia, the question is not over a repeat of May 13, even if some quarters play that up during the election rounds, but the fear that any small dispute can quickly escalate. Violence in general is seen as dangerous-and a threat to public order (what ever that means). Even just two individuals taking a swing at each other can be read to mean many things.
It is an irrational fear perhaps, but one as I mentioned above that has been impressed into the minds of Malaysians from a very young age.
Many Malaysians today are post 1969. A lot of Malaysians grew up on the fear rhetoric generated from the events rather than living through the events. And it has hardly been discuss about except through the official versions. It is still very much a taboo subject, though I suspect what prevents people from speaking about it has very little to do with the events themselves or any inter-ethnic suspicions and fear. Very rarely do we hear of versions about May 13 other than the official version-and this includes the personal views about the May 13 riots by the first Prime Minister. The official version became the arguement for NEP and the rest of it.
It is or at least was until the Anwar crisis in the late 1990’s something that was taken seriously-at least among the older people I interacted with.
However, to be fair, there are many factors that have contributed to the success and longevity of BN-not just the fear of instability. In some parts it is due to the promise of development, in others, the guarantee of good business.It is a model that absorbs class and retains distinctions. And yet, for a long time the BN narrative was not monolithic; that is or was part of their strenght. They are a bit like the mini-bus of the 1980’s that use to dominate KL streets-everyone was ushered on board, even if you ended up hanging-out of the door with just a toe-hold and an arm holding the door railing for dear life! But the last elections and subsequent by-elections has shown that Malaysians of all walks of life and across class, ethnic and religious lines are rooting for change. Perhaps unfolding as Sian suggests, people moving away from BN are setting the stage for new stories to emerge and alternative narratives to present themselves on being Malaysian. At least in the alternative art scene, this is already growing particularly through individual innitiatives that are visible not only on the internet but also in public art galleries, in public forums by academicians and many others. The politics in Malaysia is opening up, slowly being represented now by non-mainstream politician. It is slow but growing.
For people seeking more clarity about how the elevated status of the king came about, and how it conflates with notions of Thai democracy and identity:
The full sixth chapter (Citizen King Embodying Thainess ) of Michael Kelly Connors book ‘Democracy and National Identity in Thailand’ have been made available at NIAS homepage:
I love the word “complicit” it sort of means that he didnt do it but didnt try to stop it either (like Bush .. if you arent with me you are agin me)
my point about human rights abuses in Thailand is:
its the military (including the BPP) that commit them, before Thaksin, during Thaksin and after Thaksin
its fair to say that some governments before and after Thaksin were appointed/proxy for the military but I assume we can agree that Thaksin was not aligned with or partnering with beholden to the military (although he would have to be careful of assassination by them)
so logically I think Thaksin was less “complicit” in the atrocities committed by the military than most other governments
therefore I on a personal level dismiss attempts to “blame” Thaksin for human rights abuses during his time in government as naive arising from misunderstanding of the forces he was required to balance
I do not absolve Abhisit because he has knowingly (unless he is very dumb) permitted himself to be dependent on the military for his political power
Very good question. Treating the panda cub like a human baby violates the most fundamental principles of breeding and rearing essentially undomesticated species. One should always avoid imprinting. It is shocking that this sort of thing should be allowed and the cub should be treated like a circus exhibit and subjected to so much human contact and artificial ”toys” made – good lord!! – of coloured plastic!!
I broadly agree with the comments raised above. However, as an outside observer, I would argue that Kamal’s observation that “multi-ethnic Malaysia as a powder keg waiting to ignite and that multi-religions only add to the fragility or sensitivity of society” is less about government rhetoric and more about how society responds – or allows itself to respond – to this ‘threat’.
The fear of a repeat of May 13 is alive and intimidating. But is this fear genuine? Will Malaysia honestly break into racial disorder? I argue that Malaysian people (of all races) would never allow a repeat of May 13. So why so much concern about it?
The question as I see it is not why Barisan Nasional is losing the plot. Rather, the question is why are Malaysians continuing to buy into Barisan Nasional’s vision of Malaysia? A nation shouldn’t have one narrator with one plot. A nation should have many narrators and many plots. What new story could Malaysians create if they moved outside the Barisan Nasional narration?
NEVER MIND THIS BS. This is the story from Phuket. Can they be serious. This me thinks will be the straw that does break the Ferangs back in Thailand………………….Good bye golden goose!
PHUKET: – A fact-finding effort is underway in Phuket to compile information about local businesses in which Thai people are hired by foreigners as their nominees – a practice considered suspicious and possibly illegal.
Provincial governor Wichai Phrai-sa-ngob, who ordered the investigation, said he was not discriminating against foreign investors, but guarding against illegal nomination which exploited loopholes in Thai laws for personal gain.
Under the business nomination law, foreigners can hold no more than 49-per-cent ownership of any business they jointly invest in with Thais. An ongoing practice is that foreigners later gain control over Thais illegally, and enjoy a lower tax burden than when holding a minority ownership.
To scrutinise foreign businesses, the local revenue office is checking on their tax payments, while the treasury office is scrutinising ownership of condominium space. Immigration police are checking visa and residence status.
Local authorities and the Interior Ministry will look into all information and decide on what to do if the fact-finding reveals illegal business nomination activities, said the governor.
There are now 19,653 joint Thai-foreign businesses in Phuket, which have invested around Bt62 million.
Patong Municipality mayor Chairat Sukbhal dismissed reports most hotels on the island resort were owned by foreigners, saying most were operated as joint ventures, or under management staffed by foreign executives.
The provincial business and trade office said a regulation requiring joint Thai-foreign businesses to produce bank accounts with a high minimum amount of money deposited had been revoked, because it could not effectively serve as proof of substantial business funding.
“In most cases, the money was withdrawn immediately from bank accounts once they were offered to Thai authorities as proof,” office head Weerachai Tantiwatthanawallop said.
The provincial land office said legal action would be taken against any businesses found to have been operated illegally with a majority of foreign ownership, because Thai land laws imposed strict sanctions on foreigners owning land plots in Thailand.
What are you now? Internet Police? What a stupid question to ask. My full name is there. Google it.
And to reply to your comment. Da Torpedo doesn’t know the truth either. Therefore, speaking out in the public to convince innocent people to misunderstand about someone else is completely wrong. It’s called defamation of Character which is existing in many democratic countries. But somehow that person is the King. And by Law in Thailand, whoever try to defame the King and his family will be prosecuted. Loud and clear.
Da torpedo knew exactly what she was doing. The speech that she gave that day not just a political statement. It’s a public speech that she aimed to create a chaos for a bigger purpose. It’s not just against LM law, it’s also part of National Security as well.
And if You K.Lek actually followed New Mandala, I already said it once that I agreed that LM laws has to be amended somehow. but not without any research, and to my opinion, now it’s not the right time when we don’t know exactly what is the actual purpose for Red group’s leaders. Some fight for Thaksin. Some fight for communism. Some fight for their own power.
Will you risk your beloved country to be destroyed by them?
“Who here is calling for the immediate return of power of Thaksin?” “ I think your so-called “New Mandala pro-Thaksin lobby” is more a figment of your imagination than a serious comment.”
Having struggled to find the quote I was looking for where a regular New Mandala contributor called for the immediate return of Thaksin to power, I have to concede that you may well be right, and that this may well have been a figment of my imagination. After all, who would be foolhardy enough to believe that returning Thaksin to power would be anything other than disastrous for Thailand?
#59 David Brown
“who “acknowledges” that Thaksin is a human rights abuser?
does the same people/person/organisation also “acknowledge” that the Thai military are serial human rights abusers?
the human rights abuses by the Thai military include their frenzied use of lese majeste to punish any that threaten the wealth and power of their patrons and themselves.”
Forgive me if I’m wrong, but it is my understanding that the overwhelming majority of New Mandala contributors “acknowledge” that Thaksin is a human rights abuser. And of course the world’s major human rights organisations, the United Nations, and the overwhelming majority of overseas commentators, journalists and academics also seem to be in agreement. Can I take it from your statement that you do not believe that Thaksin was complicit in human rights abuse?
I can’t speak for anyone else with regard to human rights abuses by the Thai military and police, but I would certainly condemn them in the very strongest terms for all rights abuse including the recent horrific treatment of the Rohingya refugees, recent and historical incidences of torture and murder in the South, collaboration in all the abuses of the Thaksin era, and any involvement they may have in the enactment of the unjust lese majeste laws.
# 58 Ralph Kramden
Please accept my apologies if I didn’t express myself clearly in my initial post, I’m just a poorly educated country boy!
“At the same time, it has to be said that if we applied your claimed standard of right to comment on human rights, then there’d be few who could comment on Thailand. The pro-Thaksin lobby ignores his human rights abuses, so they’d be out. The PAD/royalists lobby ignore the monarchy’s abuse of human rights, so they’d be out. The pro-coup lobby would also be out for ignoring the human rights abuses by the military.”
Is it really necessary to identify oneself with one of those particular groupings to be able to express an opinion on the political situation in Thailand? Forgive me if I struggle to make a choice.
I used to dread succession, largely because of the conventional wisdoms about the crown prince. But now it seems that Thailand needs it to happen because only then will they see the inherent fault in monarchy, that leaders are chosen by blood instead of merit. It’s a truth that many other nations arrived at last century, and Thailand’s delay was largely caused by the effectiveness of the current king and the mythology built around him by Sarit, the CIA, and others.
Deep inside I think many Thais know this is going to happen, and the current wave of extra love for the king is a symptom of the denial. The king, for example, has 37,000 supporters on his Facebook page. The crown prince has 214. (Notably Sirindhorn has no page at all). When the king passes the grief and sorrow we see will be not just for the loss of a man, but for the end of childhood.
You have reasons to be angry. You have the right to express your opinion.That is right. But you have no right to used your own beleive to just somone ” lie” while you really don’t know the true. Please clarify yourself first,who are you?
I don’t doubt that the National Convention allowed relationships to develop, but since most of the ceasefire groups don’t exactly have young leadership, there were working relationships that extend all the way back to the insurgent days. Both the Kokang and Wa were part of the Communist insurgency and KIA 4th Brigade used to co-operate with the Communists.
Also, when I was in Lashio back in 1997, the UWSA office was just down the road from the offices of two other ceasefire groups. Unfortunately, I forget which two now. Further down the road was the house of a Kachin who was the leader of a pro-government militia,(not a ceasefire group) who jokingly offered to take me down to the Wa office, where he had friends, and said that MI would really want to talk to me if we did that.
Also, these groups all had economic and political ties to China, and I’m sure they had a chance to develop conections there.
Perhaps the lingo used by the journos need to be changed to “Chinese expats” rather than “Burmese refugees” fleeing back into China. During the last two decades, the influx of Chinese into Burma has turned Burma into an extended province of China. Burmese citizenships are easily bought, IDs of dead people have risen from ashes and are driving the local economy and the local language being used locally is not Burmese but Chinese? The fiercely nationalistic junta have protected the country from even being tainted with hues of ethnicity for decades. Has the love affair with amorous China becoming too stifling for the Burmans that they are looking towards the West for a bit of counter balancing? The Burma Army did court the Japanese to fight the Brits then courted the Brits to drive the Japanese out.
My comments were quite clearly directed towards the “New Mandala pro-Thaksin lobby” i.e. the people who have posted the comments that I have read here at New Mandala calling for the immediate return to power of Thaksin.
Who here is calling for the immediate return of power of Thaksin? The general tone of most posters here seem to desire reform (or scrapping) of lese majeste laws, restoration of the 1997 constitution, and free and fair elections w/o the intervention of the army. Some here have mentioned amnesty for politicians (including Thaksin), but it’s hardly a theme of the blog or those who post comments here. I think your so-called “New Mandala pro-Thaksin lobby” is more a figment of your imagination than a serious comment.
who “acknowledges” that Thaksin is a human rights abuser?
does the same people/person/organisation also “acknowledge” that the Thai military are serial human rights abusers?
the human rights abuses by the Thai military include their frenzied use of lese majeste to punish any that threaten the wealth and power of their patrons and themselves.
Mungo: No, I did not “misrepresent” your statement “I’m just a little surprised that the New Mandala pro-Thaksin lobby have developed a new found passionate interest in human rights.”
That is not a misinterpretation. In your latest reflection you clear this up by expressing a position which appears to correct what might now seem like just poor expression in the original post.
At the same time, it has to be said that if we applied your claimed standard of right to comment on human rights, then there’d be few who could comment on Thailand. The pro-Thaksin lobby ignores his human rights abuses, so they’d be out. The PAD/royalists lobby ignore the monarchy’s abuse of human rights, so they’d be out. The pro-coup lobby would also be out for ignoring the human rights abuses by the military.
“The SPDC has been putting pressure on all ceasefire ethnic armed groups to disarm and transform into the Border Guard Force. There is concern that there would be similar war against other ceasefire groups which refused the junta’s proposal on BGF.
Four ceasefire groups the ‘United Wa State Army’ (UWSA), ‘Kachin Independence Organization’ (KIO), ‘Myanmar National Democratic Alliance Army’ (MNDAA) and Maila group or ‘National Democracy Alliance Army’ (NDAA) formed a military alliance.
The allies, however, did not pitch in, in the war against the Kokang group. The Kachin people are concerned with the clashes between junta’s forces and Kokang forces.”
this is from 2009.08.31 (yesterday) at the link below:
So it seems like there may be two alliances here, although the recent military alliance doesn’t seem to have come to much (so far). Ans also, it may be that the MPDF was issuing statements about the recent situation in Kokang — for example:
“The Myanmar Peace and Democracy Front, an alliance of four ethnic groups, and Chinese reports said the flashpoint came when troops attacked a factory used by ethnic groups to repair weapons on the suspicion it was being used to produce drugs.” from:
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The Devil’s Discus – in Thai
I have just been informed that there is a new edition of The Devil’s Discus (unsure of what language) from Hong Kong.
If anyone knows about this, I would appreciate its title, ISBN, publisher and contact details. Thanks
CJ Hinke
Barisan Nasional losing the plot after 52 years
What I meant by “multi-ethnic Malaysia as a powder keg waiting to ignite and that multi-religions only add to the fragility or sensitivity of society” is that this is the story that some would have people believe. And since the government does control a large part of public representation, it is a pervasive idea. You read about it in school, you hear about it being discuss only during the general elections and only by certain people, you are told from a young age that this is a sensitive topic. The authorities have a law to refrain you if you discuss these ‘sensitive’ topics, and so on. These topics are not just labeled sensitive but they are treated as dangerous.
And perhaps, from this, it has for a long time been the conventional believe that BN represented security and stability. That is of course all unravelling now.
Following closer current issues in Malaysia, the question is not over a repeat of May 13, even if some quarters play that up during the election rounds, but the fear that any small dispute can quickly escalate. Violence in general is seen as dangerous-and a threat to public order (what ever that means). Even just two individuals taking a swing at each other can be read to mean many things.
It is an irrational fear perhaps, but one as I mentioned above that has been impressed into the minds of Malaysians from a very young age.
Many Malaysians today are post 1969. A lot of Malaysians grew up on the fear rhetoric generated from the events rather than living through the events. And it has hardly been discuss about except through the official versions. It is still very much a taboo subject, though I suspect what prevents people from speaking about it has very little to do with the events themselves or any inter-ethnic suspicions and fear. Very rarely do we hear of versions about May 13 other than the official version-and this includes the personal views about the May 13 riots by the first Prime Minister. The official version became the arguement for NEP and the rest of it.
It is or at least was until the Anwar crisis in the late 1990’s something that was taken seriously-at least among the older people I interacted with.
However, to be fair, there are many factors that have contributed to the success and longevity of BN-not just the fear of instability. In some parts it is due to the promise of development, in others, the guarantee of good business.It is a model that absorbs class and retains distinctions. And yet, for a long time the BN narrative was not monolithic; that is or was part of their strenght. They are a bit like the mini-bus of the 1980’s that use to dominate KL streets-everyone was ushered on board, even if you ended up hanging-out of the door with just a toe-hold and an arm holding the door railing for dear life! But the last elections and subsequent by-elections has shown that Malaysians of all walks of life and across class, ethnic and religious lines are rooting for change. Perhaps unfolding as Sian suggests, people moving away from BN are setting the stage for new stories to emerge and alternative narratives to present themselves on being Malaysian. At least in the alternative art scene, this is already growing particularly through individual innitiatives that are visible not only on the internet but also in public art galleries, in public forums by academicians and many others. The politics in Malaysia is opening up, slowly being represented now by non-mainstream politician. It is slow but growing.
Kamal
Why?
Why? Probably to boost General Chaovalit’s already vastly over-inflated ego.
Thailand’s royal disgrace
For people seeking more clarity about how the elevated status of the king came about, and how it conflates with notions of Thai democracy and identity:
The full sixth chapter (Citizen King Embodying Thainess ) of Michael Kelly Connors book ‘Democracy and National Identity in Thailand’ have been made available at NIAS homepage:
Link through Connors blog:
http://sovereignmyth.blogspot.com/
NIAS (click excerpt)
http://www.niaspress.dk/books/democracy-and-national-identity-thailand
Thailand’s royal disgrace
Mungo #62
I love the word “complicit” it sort of means that he didnt do it but didnt try to stop it either (like Bush .. if you arent with me you are agin me)
my point about human rights abuses in Thailand is:
its the military (including the BPP) that commit them, before Thaksin, during Thaksin and after Thaksin
its fair to say that some governments before and after Thaksin were appointed/proxy for the military but I assume we can agree that Thaksin was not aligned with or partnering with beholden to the military (although he would have to be careful of assassination by them)
so logically I think Thaksin was less “complicit” in the atrocities committed by the military than most other governments
therefore I on a personal level dismiss attempts to “blame” Thaksin for human rights abuses during his time in government as naive arising from misunderstanding of the forces he was required to balance
I do not absolve Abhisit because he has knowingly (unless he is very dumb) permitted himself to be dependent on the military for his political power
Why?
Very good question. Treating the panda cub like a human baby violates the most fundamental principles of breeding and rearing essentially undomesticated species. One should always avoid imprinting. It is shocking that this sort of thing should be allowed and the cub should be treated like a circus exhibit and subjected to so much human contact and artificial ”toys” made – good lord!! – of coloured plastic!!
Barisan Nasional losing the plot after 52 years
Kamal et al,
I broadly agree with the comments raised above. However, as an outside observer, I would argue that Kamal’s observation that “multi-ethnic Malaysia as a powder keg waiting to ignite and that multi-religions only add to the fragility or sensitivity of society” is less about government rhetoric and more about how society responds – or allows itself to respond – to this ‘threat’.
The fear of a repeat of May 13 is alive and intimidating. But is this fear genuine? Will Malaysia honestly break into racial disorder? I argue that Malaysian people (of all races) would never allow a repeat of May 13. So why so much concern about it?
The question as I see it is not why Barisan Nasional is losing the plot. Rather, the question is why are Malaysians continuing to buy into Barisan Nasional’s vision of Malaysia? A nation shouldn’t have one narrator with one plot. A nation should have many narrators and many plots. What new story could Malaysians create if they moved outside the Barisan Nasional narration?
Thailand’s royal disgrace
NEVER MIND THIS BS. This is the story from Phuket. Can they be serious. This me thinks will be the straw that does break the Ferangs back in Thailand………………….Good bye golden goose!
PHUKET: – A fact-finding effort is underway in Phuket to compile information about local businesses in which Thai people are hired by foreigners as their nominees – a practice considered suspicious and possibly illegal.
Provincial governor Wichai Phrai-sa-ngob, who ordered the investigation, said he was not discriminating against foreign investors, but guarding against illegal nomination which exploited loopholes in Thai laws for personal gain.
Under the business nomination law, foreigners can hold no more than 49-per-cent ownership of any business they jointly invest in with Thais. An ongoing practice is that foreigners later gain control over Thais illegally, and enjoy a lower tax burden than when holding a minority ownership.
To scrutinise foreign businesses, the local revenue office is checking on their tax payments, while the treasury office is scrutinising ownership of condominium space. Immigration police are checking visa and residence status.
Local authorities and the Interior Ministry will look into all information and decide on what to do if the fact-finding reveals illegal business nomination activities, said the governor.
There are now 19,653 joint Thai-foreign businesses in Phuket, which have invested around Bt62 million.
Patong Municipality mayor Chairat Sukbhal dismissed reports most hotels on the island resort were owned by foreigners, saying most were operated as joint ventures, or under management staffed by foreign executives.
The provincial business and trade office said a regulation requiring joint Thai-foreign businesses to produce bank accounts with a high minimum amount of money deposited had been revoked, because it could not effectively serve as proof of substantial business funding.
“In most cases, the money was withdrawn immediately from bank accounts once they were offered to Thai authorities as proof,” office head Weerachai Tantiwatthanawallop said.
The provincial land office said legal action would be taken against any businesses found to have been operated illegally with a majority of foreign ownership, because Thai land laws imposed strict sanctions on foreigners owning land plots in Thailand.
Thailand’s royal disgrace
What are you now? Internet Police? What a stupid question to ask. My full name is there. Google it.
And to reply to your comment. Da Torpedo doesn’t know the truth either. Therefore, speaking out in the public to convince innocent people to misunderstand about someone else is completely wrong. It’s called defamation of Character which is existing in many democratic countries. But somehow that person is the King. And by Law in Thailand, whoever try to defame the King and his family will be prosecuted. Loud and clear.
Da torpedo knew exactly what she was doing. The speech that she gave that day not just a political statement. It’s a public speech that she aimed to create a chaos for a bigger purpose. It’s not just against LM law, it’s also part of National Security as well.
And if You K.Lek actually followed New Mandala, I already said it once that I agreed that LM laws has to be amended somehow. but not without any research, and to my opinion, now it’s not the right time when we don’t know exactly what is the actual purpose for Red group’s leaders. Some fight for Thaksin. Some fight for communism. Some fight for their own power.
Will you risk your beloved country to be destroyed by them?
And no. I’m not one of the Yellow shirt either.
Clarify myself, my arse..
Thailand’s royal disgrace
#60 Tettyan
“Who here is calling for the immediate return of power of Thaksin?” “ I think your so-called “New Mandala pro-Thaksin lobby” is more a figment of your imagination than a serious comment.”
Having struggled to find the quote I was looking for where a regular New Mandala contributor called for the immediate return of Thaksin to power, I have to concede that you may well be right, and that this may well have been a figment of my imagination. After all, who would be foolhardy enough to believe that returning Thaksin to power would be anything other than disastrous for Thailand?
#59 David Brown
“who “acknowledges” that Thaksin is a human rights abuser?
does the same people/person/organisation also “acknowledge” that the Thai military are serial human rights abusers?
the human rights abuses by the Thai military include their frenzied use of lese majeste to punish any that threaten the wealth and power of their patrons and themselves.”
Forgive me if I’m wrong, but it is my understanding that the overwhelming majority of New Mandala contributors “acknowledge” that Thaksin is a human rights abuser. And of course the world’s major human rights organisations, the United Nations, and the overwhelming majority of overseas commentators, journalists and academics also seem to be in agreement. Can I take it from your statement that you do not believe that Thaksin was complicit in human rights abuse?
I can’t speak for anyone else with regard to human rights abuses by the Thai military and police, but I would certainly condemn them in the very strongest terms for all rights abuse including the recent horrific treatment of the Rohingya refugees, recent and historical incidences of torture and murder in the South, collaboration in all the abuses of the Thaksin era, and any involvement they may have in the enactment of the unjust lese majeste laws.
# 58 Ralph Kramden
Please accept my apologies if I didn’t express myself clearly in my initial post, I’m just a poorly educated country boy!
“At the same time, it has to be said that if we applied your claimed standard of right to comment on human rights, then there’d be few who could comment on Thailand. The pro-Thaksin lobby ignores his human rights abuses, so they’d be out. The PAD/royalists lobby ignore the monarchy’s abuse of human rights, so they’d be out. The pro-coup lobby would also be out for ignoring the human rights abuses by the military.”
Is it really necessary to identify oneself with one of those particular groupings to be able to express an opinion on the political situation in Thailand? Forgive me if I struggle to make a choice.
Why?
Why?
Because here is the land of entertainment is the most important thing in life.
No wonder why there are so many soft-opera programs on Thai TV channels.
Newly-born panda is one of them. The ruler wants to divert public’s attention from the daily life problems.
Thailand and lese majeste
I used to dread succession, largely because of the conventional wisdoms about the crown prince. But now it seems that Thailand needs it to happen because only then will they see the inherent fault in monarchy, that leaders are chosen by blood instead of merit. It’s a truth that many other nations arrived at last century, and Thailand’s delay was largely caused by the effectiveness of the current king and the mythology built around him by Sarit, the CIA, and others.
Deep inside I think many Thais know this is going to happen, and the current wave of extra love for the king is a symptom of the denial. The king, for example, has 37,000 supporters on his Facebook page. The crown prince has 214. (Notably Sirindhorn has no page at all). When the king passes the grief and sorrow we see will be not just for the loss of a man, but for the end of childhood.
Long Live The King. Because You Know What’s Next.
Thailand’s royal disgrace
Khun Taro
You have reasons to be angry. You have the right to express your opinion.That is right. But you have no right to used your own beleive to just somone ” lie” while you really don’t know the true. Please clarify yourself first,who are you?
Ceasing Burma’s ceasefires?
I don’t doubt that the National Convention allowed relationships to develop, but since most of the ceasefire groups don’t exactly have young leadership, there were working relationships that extend all the way back to the insurgent days. Both the Kokang and Wa were part of the Communist insurgency and KIA 4th Brigade used to co-operate with the Communists.
Also, when I was in Lashio back in 1997, the UWSA office was just down the road from the offices of two other ceasefire groups. Unfortunately, I forget which two now. Further down the road was the house of a Kachin who was the leader of a pro-government militia,(not a ceasefire group) who jokingly offered to take me down to the Wa office, where he had friends, and said that MI would really want to talk to me if we did that.
Also, these groups all had economic and political ties to China, and I’m sure they had a chance to develop conections there.
Thong dee, not so dee
How do you come between an elephant and its libido you ask Michael? I would say not if you value your life 😉
Ceasing Burma’s ceasefires?
Perhaps the lingo used by the journos need to be changed to “Chinese expats” rather than “Burmese refugees” fleeing back into China. During the last two decades, the influx of Chinese into Burma has turned Burma into an extended province of China. Burmese citizenships are easily bought, IDs of dead people have risen from ashes and are driving the local economy and the local language being used locally is not Burmese but Chinese? The fiercely nationalistic junta have protected the country from even being tainted with hues of ethnicity for decades. Has the love affair with amorous China becoming too stifling for the Burmans that they are looking towards the West for a bit of counter balancing? The Burma Army did court the Japanese to fight the Brits then courted the Brits to drive the Japanese out.
Thailand’s royal disgrace
@ Mungo Gibbins (57)
My comments were quite clearly directed towards the “New Mandala pro-Thaksin lobby” i.e. the people who have posted the comments that I have read here at New Mandala calling for the immediate return to power of Thaksin.
Who here is calling for the immediate return of power of Thaksin? The general tone of most posters here seem to desire reform (or scrapping) of lese majeste laws, restoration of the 1997 constitution, and free and fair elections w/o the intervention of the army. Some here have mentioned amnesty for politicians (including Thaksin), but it’s hardly a theme of the blog or those who post comments here. I think your so-called “New Mandala pro-Thaksin lobby” is more a figment of your imagination than a serious comment.
Thailand’s royal disgrace
Mungo #57
who “acknowledges” that Thaksin is a human rights abuser?
does the same people/person/organisation also “acknowledge” that the Thai military are serial human rights abusers?
the human rights abuses by the Thai military include their frenzied use of lese majeste to punish any that threaten the wealth and power of their patrons and themselves.
Thailand’s royal disgrace
Mungo: No, I did not “misrepresent” your statement “I’m just a little surprised that the New Mandala pro-Thaksin lobby have developed a new found passionate interest in human rights.”
That is not a misinterpretation. In your latest reflection you clear this up by expressing a position which appears to correct what might now seem like just poor expression in the original post.
At the same time, it has to be said that if we applied your claimed standard of right to comment on human rights, then there’d be few who could comment on Thailand. The pro-Thaksin lobby ignores his human rights abuses, so they’d be out. The PAD/royalists lobby ignore the monarchy’s abuse of human rights, so they’d be out. The pro-coup lobby would also be out for ignoring the human rights abuses by the military.
Ceasing Burma’s ceasefires?
“The SPDC has been putting pressure on all ceasefire ethnic armed groups to disarm and transform into the Border Guard Force. There is concern that there would be similar war against other ceasefire groups which refused the junta’s proposal on BGF.
Four ceasefire groups the ‘United Wa State Army’ (UWSA), ‘Kachin Independence Organization’ (KIO), ‘Myanmar National Democratic Alliance Army’ (MNDAA) and Maila group or ‘National Democracy Alliance Army’ (NDAA) formed a military alliance.
The allies, however, did not pitch in, in the war against the Kokang group. The Kachin people are concerned with the clashes between junta’s forces and Kokang forces.”
this is from 2009.08.31 (yesterday) at the link below:
http://www.mizzima.com/news/inside-burma/2696-junta-briefs-kio-on-kokang-war.html
So it seems like there may be two alliances here, although the recent military alliance doesn’t seem to have come to much (so far). Ans also, it may be that the MPDF was issuing statements about the recent situation in Kokang — for example:
“The Myanmar Peace and Democracy Front, an alliance of four ethnic groups, and Chinese reports said the flashpoint came when troops attacked a factory used by ethnic groups to repair weapons on the suspicion it was being used to produce drugs.” from:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32596296/ns/world_news-asiapacific/