This assumes, however, that Thibaw is acceptable to the current regime…which, in analyzing the speeches of Senior General Than Shwe is not at all certain, as only ambiguous reference is generally made to the exact “dark” period between the fall of the Konbaung Dynasty and the rise of its prevailing reincarnation. Given that the regime views itself, through official doctrine, as a modernizing force – a strong argument can be made that the present regime dates the critical moment of Konbaung capitulation to 1866 – when the modernist and reformist Prince Kanaung – heir apparent to the throne – was assassinated. If this were to prove the case then the regime would have absolutely no interest in Thibaw and the imagined swap. Though, admittedly, it is still kind of a fun exchange to imagine.
A bit of tangent, but nonetheless, the reasons why NGOs are looking at the symptoms and not the causes is because they are NGOs – that is, non-governmental organizations. When it comes down to prosecution of traffickers, that is something that comes into the hands of the state. Organizations like IOM and the Western government’s that fund them can engage in ‘capacity building’ of the justice, legal, and social departments of a nation to try to convince them to prosecute traffickers, smugglers and agents. However, on a national scale not much else can be done. If it is a developing country incentives can be made, but in the case of Singapore, I am assuming it would be much more difficult.
In addition, I wouldn’t discount the work of NGOs when it comes to the sex trade. The name of the game is ‘harm reduction’. There’s a reason why its called ‘the oldest profession in the world’. Prostitution is never going to be eradicated. In terms of reducing HIV/AIDS and other STI infection, gender-based violence, and safe sex practices, NGOs and CBOs can make a huge impact.
Finally, if we want to use the word ‘trafficking’, we should be sure to stick by its definition. From the sound of things in the Bangkok post article that Andrew Walker posted, it seems like most foreign sex workers in Singapore, although illegal, have chosen to migrate to Singapore out of their own volition. Trafficking is forced/coerced migration. Moving to Singapore for a job is not.
It sounds to me like a solution to a lot of these problems would be to legalize more foreign sex workers. A lot of Western nations (like Australia and Holland for example) have modified laws in recent years to open up for controlled legalized sex work. Singapore seems to be heading that way, but it seems like there are many gaps and loopholes when it comes to protection on of the sex workers themselves.
Yesterday (9th June), King Ananda’s day, the following Royal Family’s member showed up on the royal news. The King, the Queen, Princess Sirikit, Princess Chulaborn, Princess Srirasmi, and Princess Soamsavali.
“last week” (#19) – could you be more precise and provide the exact date, as you give it in your last post ?
I’ve paid attention during last few days (evening news) – and so far couldn’t see him on any of these news.
yesterday (June 9) – you’re right they were seen attending the ceremony. his 1st wife too was shown presiding over similar ceremony elsewhere. his present wife was also shown – but somehow alone, and the footage showed her visiting some rural area, and according to certain observation – this is a taped video, not the latest – because it has been shown some time before (also, one would suppose that she would be rather shown as attending similar ceremony related to the mentioned anniversary, as 1st wife, no ? and also – why she is shown alone?). his 2 sisters also were shown.
however he himself was not shown at all (as I said – at least 3-4 days already, which I especially paid attention to – although may be already longer than that, since before that I didn’t watch closely) – although supposedly he would be also presiding over one of such ceremonies related to this anniversary, don’t you think ? (also usually his wife won’t be shown alone, but mostly together with him – no? )
furthermore, in your last comm (#23) you don’t mention him yourself at all, right? so, any comment on that?
anyway, I let’s see next few days…
since BP says :
it was a mistake to include as dates can change depending on what the stars say. June 15 was a likely date, not a definite one.
I surmise it indicates rather “likely date” according to lunar calendar, based on the similar date which has coinscided with “June 15” some time before (in 2007? or may be in 2005 ?). so, I guess to be able to figure out the more precise day in the “near future” (coz as BP said the “clue” was about near future) – one has to check the lunar calender and compare it with date “June 15” for last few years – which auspicious events (by lunar calendar !) has happened on June 15 previously (by solar calander), and then see when similar thing supposed to be this year š
now I bet many more people will do more thorough extensive search.
hahaha š
Mavvy (all right, I skip the boy, though your posts are quite youthful):
“thank you for bringing light while iām lost in darkness of ignorance” > Maybe, you can join Sondhi’s PAD, because they do not only include SE in their ideas, but Sondhi also claims that he had lit the candle to start bringing light back to Thailand!
Michael: If actually wanted to spread a rumor would have done so.
Trying to find out further information about such topics is very
difficult. There are no on the record denials or confirmations. Most
rumors start with “I heard”, but there is little details on where this
rumour/information started. They often involve things that have
happened and unless someone is physically there, one can’t prove
anything. This one was quite specific and involves the future. It was
experiment on whether could use the blog post to find out further
information by providing some cryptic hints. It has been moderately
successful. If had been 100% sure about something there would be no
need to ask. Will try to do a follow-up when have sufficient
information in an appropriate way.
Hobby: Nothing to do with Parliament opening. It is about an
auspicious date. Unfortunately, it was a mistake to include as dates
can change depending on what the stars say. June 15 was a likely date,
not a definite one.
Clearly one other person has heard the rumour or cottoned onto
something – look providing leading information is pointless. Would
suggest people post links to “sightings” – be wary of just mere
statements being made as opposed to photo or video.
Thanks to Kyaw Kyaw for pointing out the following article which helps illuminate some details on the Rohingya community in Saudi Arabia, which is apparently upwards of 300,000 members (!)
I don’t know much about protection/asylum/migration in Saudi Arabia, but the article makes it seem like migration policy is pretty ad hoc and informal…
I would love to see some hard-to-find numbers used to confirm or bust certain conventional wisdoms casually thrown about in Thailand discussions. Such as:
“Thailand has no dominant middle class.” (So let’s define middle income in Thai terms, and find out what percentage of Thais fit that group, the growth of this group relative to high and low income groups, etc.)
“The Thai middle class is in Bangkok.” (Probably true, but what if numbers showed us that the percentage of Thai middle-income persons was only 45% located in Bangkok?)
“Thailand is totally corrupt.” (What percentage of GDP is actually lost to corruption, and is there any source on this other than the UN?)
In short, some statistical trend analysis that shows how actual economics and demographics may vary from our assumptions and how those variances may explain or further mystify the political and social trends that are more frequently discussed.
While not directly limited to Thailand, I have a question that (I think) is anthropological, as that is the basis of this web site.
Given Thailand’s LM law and the invisible players in Thai politics, China’s heavily censored media and Communist party, Singapore’s 1 party rule, Malaysia’s UMNO and their ‘Bhumiputra’ politics, the number of coup attempts and terrorism plaguing in the Phillipines, Hun Sen in Cambodia, and the Junta in Burma….
… of the above, the Thai LM law is the most discussed here in New Mandala, and my question pertains to that. Is it s a cultural ‘Asian’ thing for ruling parties here to be fearful of dissent? Or even censoring of differing political points of view?
What about the populace of these nations, why are they so willing to accept (not Burma, but Thailand, China, et al) harsh laws limiting their rights to free speech; or to give up what should be ‘inalienable rights’ for security?
In my opinion, Thailand gets rapped more than the others because real political players are not recognized as political players at all. In Singapore, in spite of its heavy censorship, and harsh laws wherein the ruling family has never lost a court case even once (no one here seems to complain about Judicial coups there…), there seems to be little, if limited discussion on the heavy-handedness or lack of political opportunities there.
Anyways, I have a very sincere question that can’t really be discussed in other posts as it is not topical.
I guess my question’s scope is more of Thai politics in terms of the greater Asian psyche rather than limited to Thailand in itself.
I thought it had something to do with the special sitting of parliament called for on 15th June, and was thinking of a———, but that looks to have been discounted by further commentary by BP.
well, I guess we “agree to disagree” – particulalry regarding who needs whom more. so, I stand by my statements.
(I’ll skip “ridiculously slippery slope argument” remark š )
but I do not “discard the PAD” as you say. if you read my previous comments, as my answer to Ngadaleeng – I still consider PAD as a source of too radical and ruthless poisonous demagogic propaganda, therefore very misleading. so, I neither “discard” nor “underestimate” PAD.
let’s wait and see who is right or wrong.
it is pretty clear that PAD has no real substantial influence, because even now already PAD is quoted (on Nation) saying something like :
to me it actually means that they do realise pretty well that they can’t win any substantial number of seats. that’s why they are trying to make such excuses in advance, like “oh, we are not actually eager to get power”. silly ! or even stupid.
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Selth on Burmese nationalism
This assumes, however, that Thibaw is acceptable to the current regime…which, in analyzing the speeches of Senior General Than Shwe is not at all certain, as only ambiguous reference is generally made to the exact “dark” period between the fall of the Konbaung Dynasty and the rise of its prevailing reincarnation. Given that the regime views itself, through official doctrine, as a modernizing force – a strong argument can be made that the present regime dates the critical moment of Konbaung capitulation to 1866 – when the modernist and reformist Prince Kanaung – heir apparent to the throne – was assassinated. If this were to prove the case then the regime would have absolutely no interest in Thibaw and the imagined swap. Though, admittedly, it is still kind of a fun exchange to imagine.
Sex trafficking in Singapore
In response to Leosia:
A bit of tangent, but nonetheless, the reasons why NGOs are looking at the symptoms and not the causes is because they are NGOs – that is, non-governmental organizations. When it comes down to prosecution of traffickers, that is something that comes into the hands of the state. Organizations like IOM and the Western government’s that fund them can engage in ‘capacity building’ of the justice, legal, and social departments of a nation to try to convince them to prosecute traffickers, smugglers and agents. However, on a national scale not much else can be done. If it is a developing country incentives can be made, but in the case of Singapore, I am assuming it would be much more difficult.
In addition, I wouldn’t discount the work of NGOs when it comes to the sex trade. The name of the game is ‘harm reduction’. There’s a reason why its called ‘the oldest profession in the world’. Prostitution is never going to be eradicated. In terms of reducing HIV/AIDS and other STI infection, gender-based violence, and safe sex practices, NGOs and CBOs can make a huge impact.
Finally, if we want to use the word ‘trafficking’, we should be sure to stick by its definition. From the sound of things in the Bangkok post article that Andrew Walker posted, it seems like most foreign sex workers in Singapore, although illegal, have chosen to migrate to Singapore out of their own volition. Trafficking is forced/coerced migration. Moving to Singapore for a job is not.
It sounds to me like a solution to a lot of these problems would be to legalize more foreign sex workers. A lot of Western nations (like Australia and Holland for example) have modified laws in recent years to open up for controlled legalized sex work. Singapore seems to be heading that way, but it seems like there are many gaps and loopholes when it comes to protection on of the sex workers themselves.
Rumours, rumours
Yesterday (9th June), King Ananda’s day, the following Royal Family’s member showed up on the royal news. The King, the Queen, Princess Sirikit, Princess Chulaborn, Princess Srirasmi, and Princess Soamsavali.
Rumours, rumours
@Ralph #8, 19, 23
“last week” (#19) – could you be more precise and provide the exact date, as you give it in your last post ?
I’ve paid attention during last few days (evening news) – and so far couldn’t see him on any of these news.
yesterday (June 9) – you’re right they were seen attending the ceremony. his 1st wife too was shown presiding over similar ceremony elsewhere. his present wife was also shown – but somehow alone, and the footage showed her visiting some rural area, and according to certain observation – this is a taped video, not the latest – because it has been shown some time before (also, one would suppose that she would be rather shown as attending similar ceremony related to the mentioned anniversary, as 1st wife, no ? and also – why she is shown alone?). his 2 sisters also were shown.
however he himself was not shown at all (as I said – at least 3-4 days already, which I especially paid attention to – although may be already longer than that, since before that I didn’t watch closely) – although supposedly he would be also presiding over one of such ceremonies related to this anniversary, don’t you think ? (also usually his wife won’t be shown alone, but mostly together with him – no? )
furthermore, in your last comm (#23) you don’t mention him yourself at all, right? so, any comment on that?
anyway, I let’s see next few days…
since BP says :
I surmise it indicates rather “likely date” according to lunar calendar, based on the similar date which has coinscided with “June 15” some time before (in 2007? or may be in 2005 ?). so, I guess to be able to figure out the more precise day in the “near future” (coz as BP said the “clue” was about near future) – one has to check the lunar calender and compare it with date “June 15” for last few years – which auspicious events (by lunar calendar !) has happened on June 15 previously (by solar calander), and then see when similar thing supposed to be this year š
now I bet many more people will do more thorough extensive search.
hahaha š
$ufficiency economy
Mavvy (all right, I skip the boy, though your posts are quite youthful):
“thank you for bringing light while iām lost in darkness of ignorance” > Maybe, you can join Sondhi’s PAD, because they do not only include SE in their ideas, but Sondhi also claims that he had lit the candle to start bringing light back to Thailand!
Rumours, rumours
King and queen were both on the royal news on TV for 9 June. For the anniversary of the death of Ananda Mahidol.
Rumours, rumours
A comment from Bangkok Pundit follows:
Thai political and social analysis unleashed
Ralph et al,
Sorry, I should have referred to the word ‘open thread’ instead of ‘openness’
Thai political and social analysis unleashed
in case anyone that understands Thai is interested to catch up on the redshirts:
http://mvtv.co.th/th/tv.php?channel=mv5
has a nightly redshirt forum
and sometimes the partially restarted redshirt TV is showing on :
http://www.newskythailand.com/
Thai political and social analysis unleashed
Dickie: Why is it a “new” openness. I recall several calls for guest contributors. What has been closed?
Burmese Hajj mission
Thanks to Kyaw Kyaw for pointing out the following article which helps illuminate some details on the Rohingya community in Saudi Arabia, which is apparently upwards of 300,000 members (!)
http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090609/FOREIGN/706089819/-1/SPORT
I don’t know much about protection/asylum/migration in Saudi Arabia, but the article makes it seem like migration policy is pretty ad hoc and informal…
Thai political and social analysis unleashed
I would love to see some hard-to-find numbers used to confirm or bust certain conventional wisdoms casually thrown about in Thailand discussions. Such as:
“Thailand has no dominant middle class.” (So let’s define middle income in Thai terms, and find out what percentage of Thais fit that group, the growth of this group relative to high and low income groups, etc.)
“The Thai middle class is in Bangkok.” (Probably true, but what if numbers showed us that the percentage of Thai middle-income persons was only 45% located in Bangkok?)
“Thailand is totally corrupt.” (What percentage of GDP is actually lost to corruption, and is there any source on this other than the UN?)
In short, some statistical trend analysis that shows how actual economics and demographics may vary from our assumptions and how those variances may explain or further mystify the political and social trends that are more frequently discussed.
That, and more articles about Fufu.
Sex trafficking in Singapore
Another excellent Bangkok Post article is available here.
Thai political and social analysis unleashed
Thank you Nick for this new openness at NM.
While not directly limited to Thailand, I have a question that (I think) is anthropological, as that is the basis of this web site.
Given Thailand’s LM law and the invisible players in Thai politics, China’s heavily censored media and Communist party, Singapore’s 1 party rule, Malaysia’s UMNO and their ‘Bhumiputra’ politics, the number of coup attempts and terrorism plaguing in the Phillipines, Hun Sen in Cambodia, and the Junta in Burma….
… of the above, the Thai LM law is the most discussed here in New Mandala, and my question pertains to that. Is it s a cultural ‘Asian’ thing for ruling parties here to be fearful of dissent? Or even censoring of differing political points of view?
What about the populace of these nations, why are they so willing to accept (not Burma, but Thailand, China, et al) harsh laws limiting their rights to free speech; or to give up what should be ‘inalienable rights’ for security?
In my opinion, Thailand gets rapped more than the others because real political players are not recognized as political players at all. In Singapore, in spite of its heavy censorship, and harsh laws wherein the ruling family has never lost a court case even once (no one here seems to complain about Judicial coups there…), there seems to be little, if limited discussion on the heavy-handedness or lack of political opportunities there.
Anyways, I have a very sincere question that can’t really be discussed in other posts as it is not topical.
I guess my question’s scope is more of Thai politics in terms of the greater Asian psyche rather than limited to Thailand in itself.
Rumours, rumours
How about Sirikit: has the queen been seen?
Rumours, rumours
I’m with Ralph. I can’t find a trace of a rumor outside of BP. And he looks to have dropped it for today.
That was fun. Moving on…
$ufficiency economy
Mavvy: One doesn’t have to share a mind, just read his speeches over the years and see who he supports.
Rumours, rumours
antipadhist: As I said at no. 7, the CP was seen last week in live broadcasts.
Rumours, rumours
I thought it had something to do with the special sitting of parliament called for on 15th June, and was thinking of a———, but that looks to have been discounted by further commentary by BP.
PAD tries a political party
@ Dickie
well, I guess we “agree to disagree” – particulalry regarding who needs whom more. so, I stand by my statements.
(I’ll skip “ridiculously slippery slope argument” remark š )
but I do not “discard the PAD” as you say. if you read my previous comments, as my answer to Ngadaleeng – I still consider PAD as a source of too radical and ruthless poisonous demagogic propaganda, therefore very misleading. so, I neither “discard” nor “underestimate” PAD.
let’s wait and see who is right or wrong.
it is pretty clear that PAD has no real substantial influence, because even now already PAD is quoted (on Nation) saying something like :
‘Power not primary objective’
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/06/08/politics/politics_30104566.php
to me it actually means that they do realise pretty well that they can’t win any substantial number of seats. that’s why they are trying to make such excuses in advance, like “oh, we are not actually eager to get power”. silly ! or even stupid.