I am Kalam Azad born in Bangladesh but living and working in the Netherland. I am dutch citizen. I am going to travel from Netherland to Bangladesh not by plane but by train/bus.
My journey wil start from Arnhem( Netheland) – Moskow by train, 290 Euro and takes 36 hours, From Moskow-beijing by train,419 Euro and takes 7 days and 7 nights, From Beijing-Hanoi by train, 297 Euro and takes about 36 hours, From Hanoi-Laos by bus, laos to Thailand by bus and train.-Thailand-Myanmar/Burma-Bangladesh i wil see what next
I hope i wil enjoy my journey and it wil be a enjoyable time . I hope also it wil be a great experiences of my life.
But i am wondering about From Thailand to Myanmar and from Myanmar to Bangladesh by bus/train ?????
I hope The Myanmar gov. wil let me enjoy my trip and making a long journey. If it wil be ok ,i hope Myanmar gov. can let more tourists to travel Myanmar and can earn foreign money bc it wil be a great route for the tourists to travel east and south east asia also Russia to Europe.
Thanx everybosy And take care
In its pushing of reactionary political agendas (in favour of the Royal Power and the coup), the role of newspapers and TVs in the Nation ‘family’ with Sutthichai Yoon as General-Editor-in-Chief during these past few years has been an absolute disgrace to journalism, perhaps second only to the Manager group. In fact, one could argue that it’s even worse than the Manager group. The latter has, for all intent and purpose, been an organ of a political movement, but the Nation still pretenteously professes to be ‘news organization’, as is shown in this unconsciously self-denouncing piece of Sutthichai.
I find the whole article absurd, a strawman argument coming as it does from someone associated with the Nation, a newspaper which, far from being “neutral” in its coverage, has prostituted itsself as a propaganda outlet for the current government and its political allies. I can only assume that Khun Suthichai hasn’t been reading his own newspaper if he thinks its been blurring facts and fiction for the sake of neutrality. I have seen more objective new reporting in the Burma Times.
Well I’m not aware of the influence that this Suthichai Yoon may have, but surely this is skirting around the state of liberalism in Thailand. A free, critical media would occur naturally with a politically liberal Thailand.
The whole article is full of tautology and it becomes a play on what he’s ‘attempting’ to elucidate. His idea of being critical of power, reporting on the truth etc is all very amusing because it glosses over any articulation of the power which needs to be questioned toothlessly. He doesn’t provide examples of articles that have been influenced, he doesn’t provide any critique of journalists at all – just refers to apathetic journalism at large as though this is a uniquely Thai sociological impairment. He’s obviously never seen the Advertiser in Adelaide.
Issues to write about in Thailand are seemingly like a hot potatoes, nobody wants to catch one. Maybe Suthichai Yoon caught the free press one for a little too long and this is the result.
Presumably people who are angered by what journalistic apathy will become anonymous V for Vendetta bloggers. It’s the new heroin chic.
@Ralph Kramden #24
ralf piles personal attack upon personal attack
not a single argument, source or reference.
even not a response to a specific post.
another example what HE understands is ‘high quality’ or ‘ethical’.
is it really entertaining for some, this
“Repetitive ranting, unimaginative point-scoring and idle abuse”?
a few unethical law-breakers do NOT make a whole country unethical,
just like a few unethical posters displaying the same ‘ethics’ like ralf
do NOT make the whole forum unethical.
Please use your sense to write and get the real news before you post.
You want people who sell drug to be treated like a queen? Laos is a poor country, and many houses in remote area is worse than the jail in the capital. If you want her to stay well in Laos, donate your money, and we will put her in a better place.
She already committed that she was not rapped in Laos, but all of you try to throw bad image to Lao people. If we can write english well, we will fight you back.
I completely disagree with the comments written by “Reader”. I think it’s shameful the way that certain aspects of life in Myanmar are presented to the outside world. Oftentimes, reports are politicized in order to be used as a tool; this can happen for either pro-democracy activists or the so-called regime ‘apologists’.
I think it is disheartening that reports on the realities of life in Myanmar are presented for politicization, but the people who get the sharp end of the stick are Myanmar nationals themselves. Everytime a report on internet censorship doesn’t discuss the burgeoning new media culture in Myanmar, the agency of those who are using these fora as a way to retaliate against political and societal norms is being taken away.
I was very impressed by this article by Violet Cho and Dave Gilbert, and happy to see a discussion of the internet in Myanmar. Yeah – it’s censored as all hell. But if you take a walk in downtown Yangon, or go up to more working-class neighbourhoods like Hlaing township, or Okkalapa, or Mayangone, you can see many locals popping into the internet shop to engage with the world wide web. Complaints are mostly about the terribly slow speeds and 300 Kyat/hour fee (US$0.30), rather than the censorship. Most internet cafes have staff who will aide in using computer programs designed to get around the government censors, in order to access any website. While the shop owners certainly risk flouting Myanmar’s censorship and digital content laws, these subtle forms of resiliency do indeed give people agency. I am glad to see this represented in this article.
As an aside, this misrepresentation goes well beyond issues of internet censorship. For example, during this week of Daw Aung San Suu Kyi’s show trial, it has been fascinating watching BBC and CNN to see how their reporters react. BBC is currently airing a clip where the reporter claims, to paraphrase, “that locals are terrified to voice their opinions for fear of being arrested on the spot within 5 minutes.”
Hello? Are you kidding me? Hop into a cab and talk to any taxi driver in Yangon! Even those who don’t speak any English can come up with enough words to bash the government and tell you how much they love the Lady. Of course locals would be afraid to voice their opinions to a foreign journalist, but there are reasons for that. I’m not trying to say that the situation is all fine and dandy, but its important that reporters do this country and its people justice in representing its realities. This is Yangon, not Pyongyang.
Grant Evans claims that there is little that is “substantive” political sociology on the middle class and working class.
I guess it depends on how one defines “substantive” and pol sociology. At the risk of having these rejected as not substantive or not political sociology, one could mention on the middle class, in addition to quite a lot in Thai: McCargo in his now out-of-print book on Chamlong and the New Thai Politics, Ockey’s collection, Hewison in Goodman and Robison, Ockey in Pinches. On the working class, where there is little funding for research or support for publication, see Brown’s work in his book and edited collection, his articles with Hewison, Vorovidh’s work in Thai and English, FES publications, all the Thai Labor Campaign and associated reports, and Robertson’s various publications.
Stephan piles rubbish upon rubbish. Thailand ethical. Speaks for millions, doesn’t read other posts, most notably when others take his/her ludicrous posts seriously, ignores facts and writes in unstructured verse that makes little sense. Hopefully s/he gets paid for this task of dissembling.
do you think it can be considered seriously – what facts do they provide ?
I don’t know about 156 dead. since the beginning (on that day itself, 5-6am Apr 13th) I’ve heard number 6 to 10 on D-station while it was still broadcasting.
there is VCD produced by UDD (or PT ?) where one guy who has allegedly survived (who jumped from the truck) is giving interview….
I am quite now, waiting for developments. Jatuporn is being quoted saying that’ he’ll file case with police about ABhisit giving order to murder people. also that Reds will reveal evidences before their big rally before June 24th.
althogh they already said similar thing before their rally on May 10th – and it was quite.
The satellite images show just how isolated Than Shwe and his cronies are. Like all dictators, he has built himself a gilded prison in an effort to hide from the people.
If the power ever gets cut, and a few bridges blown, that place will rapidly become a mosquito infested hellhole. Nice.
I think you should moderate a little your enthusiasm. In the case of Burma all these forms of communication are just in an embryonal stage, continuously hampered and, above all, the number of web users is one of the lowest all over the world. So, please, warning for the readers: put these remarks in the right context. It’s better to talk about reality than science fiction.
@ Michael #21
we DO bother to respond. sorry that you have no time to discuss ‘ethics’ in thailand.
thailand has more than 60 million friendly people with very few jail inmates.
at least much less than the u.s.a., a model ‘democracy’
self-styled ‘liberator’ & ‘defender of freedom’.
finally: we don’t like & we don’t need them,
like we don’t need the ‘workers unions’ and ‘churches’.
but we admit & accept that many millions think different!
Chupinit Kesmanee talked about large-scale illegal logging following relocation in Western Thailand in three documents published in 1987, 1988 and 1995 (references below). The 1988 and 1995 ones are more or less identical. I can send a copy of these documents by email.
Here’s a long extract of Kesmanee (1987). As you will see, he points out that the pattern of relocation of highlanders followed by illegal logging is reported by several informants in many areas. Its existence is documented by a third party in one area: Mae Wong NP & Khlong Lan NP, Kaemphaeng Phet. As I said before: is it possible professor Miles’ post proves it also occurred in Thung Yai Naresuan WS?
The extract from Kesmanee:
“Stories from various informants in different locations are consistent in one respect, how, after ordering the hilltribes out, government officers conducted logging operation on a large scale under the guise of hilltribe forest destruction. While the widely held view that such stories are made up by hilltribe people intent on revenge may deserve critical attention, not all such stories can be discounted. Take for example the following information obtained by a news reporter who observed a case at first hand. It clearly deserves considerable weight when assessing villagers claims.
‘The evacuation of more than 900 hilltribe families from national parks in Kamphaeng Phet province to protect watershed areas becomes deplorable when government officers turn into forest destroyers and build timber mills on a large scale. The Third Army and the Royal Forestry Department evacuated hiltribes from Mae Wong National Park, Khlong Kha Lung district, and Khlong Lan National Park, Khlong Lan district, Kamphaneg Phet. Beginning with closing off the Khlong Lan-Umphang Road, Tak Province from 28 February earlier this year. After that, checkpoint were set up to forbid movement in and out beyond km. 57 to all but national park staff. IT appears that after getting rid of the previous inhabitants, Mae Wong National Park staff became forest destroyers, bringing in machines and circular saws to set up mobile timber mills working day and night at 4 bases along hillsides between km. 65 and 100. Ten-wheel trucks transporting the wood for sale in Bangkok passed the various checkpoint easily under the claim of being on high-level Royal Forest Department business. Beginning in June 1986, villagers going up to look for forest products saw the logging and were appalled. They secretly photographed the mobile sawmill in operation and took the evidence to prost to the Third Army, the Royal Forest Department, and the Office of the Prime Minister but nothing happened. Then the government officers became alert, stopped the transport of wood, and brought down all the equipment. The matter died down without any investigation or orders for staff transfer. These government officers became much more daring and resumed logging with say and nearly 50 workers … [Thai Rath, 1986, “Hilltribe Evacuation Makes a Sad Story: Various Officers Take Opportunity for Large-Scale Logging”, November 4. (in Thai)]’
“The Thai rath news reporter who visited the area saw teak, rubber trees and makhamong wood from large trees that had recently been felled, as well as milled wood being transported out. He also heard the sounds of trees being cut down and machines milling wood. “ (Kesmanee 1987, p. 26-27)
When I read Professor Miles’ post and wrote my comment, I had in mind the three following interrelated questions:
First, to what extent was the drive for relocating population fuelled by the prospects of quick returns from forest exploitation? The pattern relocation-(il)legal logging discussed in his text is reported in at least four areas between 1986 and 1992: (1) Mae Wong NP & Khlong Lan NP (Kesmanee 1987), (2) Phop Phra Relocation center, Phop Phra district, Tak (Anon 1991), and as part of the Khor Jor Kor project (Pye 2005, p 147-9) in (3) Thap Lan NP/Dong Yai forest (Khorat & Buriram) and (4) Dong Kwang Forest (Phu Phan Mtns area, Sakon Nakhon). Did the same pattern also happen in Thung Yai Naresuan?
Second, did relocating people out of forest areas help increase forest cover? In Phu Langkha, an abandoned area has not rejuvenated into forest cover after several decades. Recently, I spent (some might say wasted) a day or two downloading and comparing satellites images of sites where population resettlement occurred. I was surprised by the results of this very preliminary and sketchy analysis. I looked at four sites from which large populations were resettled : SE Thailand (Chanthaburi/Prachin Buri/Sa Kaeo), Thap Lan NP/Dong Yai forest (Khorat), Doi Luang NP (Lampang) and Mae Wong/Khlong Lan NP (Kamphaeng Phet). In the first two, I saw no changes except further deforestation due apparently to government projects. In the third, there was some very modest reforestation in one area. The analysis in the last area was inconclusive due to the dates the satellites images available were taken (1973, 1989 and 1999, while relocation occurred in 1986). If reforestation occurred, it did so very rapidly between 1986 and 1989. Why has reforestation not followed ? Are these meagre environmental benefits worth the human and financial costs of relocation?
Third, is it possible that in Thailand researchers attempting to explain and combat the spread and persistence of Imperata and other dominant grasses overlook the fact that many of the sites they study have been subject to warfare operations, notably the use of napalm and defoliant and the bulldozing of forests close to the roads? Perhaps, as in Vietnam, recent anthropogenic disturbances are not the only factors one should be investigating.
References
Anon (1991) Tak ranger commander assails resettlement scheme. Bangkok Post, (March 11).
Kesmanee C. (1987) Hilltribe Relocation Policy: Is There a Way Out of the Labyrinth? A Case Study of Kamphaeng Phet. Tribal Research Institute. [available from White Lotus press. Thai version is: Nayobai kan ophayop chaokhao thangook nai khao wongkot: koranee suksa changwat kamphaengphet]
Kesmanee C. (1988) Hilltribe Relocation Policy in Thailand. Cultural Survival Quarterly, 12(4).
Kesmanee C. (1995) Moving Hilltribes People to the Lowlands: The Resettlement Experience in Thailand. In: H. M. Mathur & M. M. Cernea (eds.), Resettlement: Focus on Asian Experiences: Vikas Publishing House PVT LTD.
Pye O. (2005) Khor Jor Kor: Forest Politics in Thailand, Chiang Mai: White Lotus.
Mehdi could be criticised for overstating the role of “key personalities” in the events of Songkran, and understating the social movements uunderlying the political tensions evident in Thailand.
And yes, he could also be legitimately criticised for not assessing the role and place of the monarchy in the crisis. But he was at least partly right in assessing that many observers all too readily leap to conspiracy theories about the role of royal family.
If a couple of the questioners had left their egos at the front door and actually engaged in an intelligent conversation rather than seeking to embarass the speaker in personal attacks and indulging in self-aggrandisement, that might have contributed to a healthier Q&A session.
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Bangladesh to Burma “friendship” road
Hallo everyone,
I am Kalam Azad born in Bangladesh but living and working in the Netherland. I am dutch citizen. I am going to travel from Netherland to Bangladesh not by plane but by train/bus.
My journey wil start from Arnhem( Netheland) – Moskow by train, 290 Euro and takes 36 hours, From Moskow-beijing by train,419 Euro and takes 7 days and 7 nights, From Beijing-Hanoi by train, 297 Euro and takes about 36 hours, From Hanoi-Laos by bus, laos to Thailand by bus and train.-Thailand-Myanmar/Burma-Bangladesh i wil see what next
I hope i wil enjoy my journey and it wil be a enjoyable time . I hope also it wil be a great experiences of my life.
But i am wondering about From Thailand to Myanmar and from Myanmar to Bangladesh by bus/train ?????
I hope The Myanmar gov. wil let me enjoy my trip and making a long journey. If it wil be ok ,i hope Myanmar gov. can let more tourists to travel Myanmar and can earn foreign money bc it wil be a great route for the tourists to travel east and south east asia also Russia to Europe.
Thanx everybosy And take care
Photos from Insein Prison vigil
NOW he,s out and the timing is brilliant
CRIMES IN BURMA
http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/hrp/documents/Crimes-in-Burma.pdf
we will bring them to ICC
Suthichai Yoon on the state of Thai journalism
In its pushing of reactionary political agendas (in favour of the Royal Power and the coup), the role of newspapers and TVs in the Nation ‘family’ with Sutthichai Yoon as General-Editor-in-Chief during these past few years has been an absolute disgrace to journalism, perhaps second only to the Manager group. In fact, one could argue that it’s even worse than the Manager group. The latter has, for all intent and purpose, been an organ of a political movement, but the Nation still pretenteously professes to be ‘news organization’, as is shown in this unconsciously self-denouncing piece of Sutthichai.
Suthichai Yoon on the state of Thai journalism
I find the whole article absurd, a strawman argument coming as it does from someone associated with the Nation, a newspaper which, far from being “neutral” in its coverage, has prostituted itsself as a propaganda outlet for the current government and its political allies. I can only assume that Khun Suthichai hasn’t been reading his own newspaper if he thinks its been blurring facts and fiction for the sake of neutrality. I have seen more objective new reporting in the Burma Times.
Suwicha Thakor on his life in prison
Reporters Without Borders mentions Suwicha’s case in their comment on Thailand’s deteriorating media situation (http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=31388).
Suthichai Yoon on the state of Thai journalism
Well I’m not aware of the influence that this Suthichai Yoon may have, but surely this is skirting around the state of liberalism in Thailand. A free, critical media would occur naturally with a politically liberal Thailand.
The whole article is full of tautology and it becomes a play on what he’s ‘attempting’ to elucidate. His idea of being critical of power, reporting on the truth etc is all very amusing because it glosses over any articulation of the power which needs to be questioned toothlessly. He doesn’t provide examples of articles that have been influenced, he doesn’t provide any critique of journalists at all – just refers to apathetic journalism at large as though this is a uniquely Thai sociological impairment. He’s obviously never seen the Advertiser in Adelaide.
Issues to write about in Thailand are seemingly like a hot potatoes, nobody wants to catch one. Maybe Suthichai Yoon caught the free press one for a little too long and this is the result.
Presumably people who are angered by what journalistic apathy will become anonymous V for Vendetta bloggers. It’s the new heroin chic.
Can you imagine a Thai Tony Jones?
“No toilet paper but unity!” Burma does social networking
Don’t worry. There are also apologists for Pyongyang. You’re not alone.
Regards.
Reader
Suthichai Yoon on the state of Thai journalism
Thailand’s investigative journalists
Now, that’s an oxymoron, right there…
Suwicha Thakor on his life in prison
@Ralph Kramden #24
ralf piles personal attack upon personal attack
not a single argument, source or reference.
even not a response to a specific post.
another example what HE understands is ‘high quality’ or ‘ethical’.
is it really entertaining for some, this
“Repetitive ranting, unimaginative point-scoring and idle abuse”?
a few unethical law-breakers do NOT make a whole country unethical,
just like a few unethical posters displaying the same ‘ethics’ like ralf
do NOT make the whole forum unethical.
Certain injustice in Laos
Please use your sense to write and get the real news before you post.
You want people who sell drug to be treated like a queen? Laos is a poor country, and many houses in remote area is worse than the jail in the capital. If you want her to stay well in Laos, donate your money, and we will put her in a better place.
She already committed that she was not rapped in Laos, but all of you try to throw bad image to Lao people. If we can write english well, we will fight you back.
“For what they have done to Daw Suu, they are dogs!”
Dogs deserve a better press than to be lumped together with those pathetic excuses for humanity
“No toilet paper but unity!” Burma does social networking
I completely disagree with the comments written by “Reader”. I think it’s shameful the way that certain aspects of life in Myanmar are presented to the outside world. Oftentimes, reports are politicized in order to be used as a tool; this can happen for either pro-democracy activists or the so-called regime ‘apologists’.
I think it is disheartening that reports on the realities of life in Myanmar are presented for politicization, but the people who get the sharp end of the stick are Myanmar nationals themselves. Everytime a report on internet censorship doesn’t discuss the burgeoning new media culture in Myanmar, the agency of those who are using these fora as a way to retaliate against political and societal norms is being taken away.
I was very impressed by this article by Violet Cho and Dave Gilbert, and happy to see a discussion of the internet in Myanmar. Yeah – it’s censored as all hell. But if you take a walk in downtown Yangon, or go up to more working-class neighbourhoods like Hlaing township, or Okkalapa, or Mayangone, you can see many locals popping into the internet shop to engage with the world wide web. Complaints are mostly about the terribly slow speeds and 300 Kyat/hour fee (US$0.30), rather than the censorship. Most internet cafes have staff who will aide in using computer programs designed to get around the government censors, in order to access any website. While the shop owners certainly risk flouting Myanmar’s censorship and digital content laws, these subtle forms of resiliency do indeed give people agency. I am glad to see this represented in this article.
As an aside, this misrepresentation goes well beyond issues of internet censorship. For example, during this week of Daw Aung San Suu Kyi’s show trial, it has been fascinating watching BBC and CNN to see how their reporters react. BBC is currently airing a clip where the reporter claims, to paraphrase, “that locals are terrified to voice their opinions for fear of being arrested on the spot within 5 minutes.”
Hello? Are you kidding me? Hop into a cab and talk to any taxi driver in Yangon! Even those who don’t speak any English can come up with enough words to bash the government and tell you how much they love the Lady. Of course locals would be afraid to voice their opinions to a foreign journalist, but there are reasons for that. I’m not trying to say that the situation is all fine and dandy, but its important that reporters do this country and its people justice in representing its realities. This is Yangon, not Pyongyang.
Political reform in Thailand: Structural and ideological issues
Grant Evans claims that there is little that is “substantive” political sociology on the middle class and working class.
I guess it depends on how one defines “substantive” and pol sociology. At the risk of having these rejected as not substantive or not political sociology, one could mention on the middle class, in addition to quite a lot in Thai: McCargo in his now out-of-print book on Chamlong and the New Thai Politics, Ockey’s collection, Hewison in Goodman and Robison, Ockey in Pinches. On the working class, where there is little funding for research or support for publication, see Brown’s work in his book and edited collection, his articles with Hewison, Vorovidh’s work in Thai and English, FES publications, all the Thai Labor Campaign and associated reports, and Robertson’s various publications.
Suwicha Thakor on his life in prison
Stephan piles rubbish upon rubbish. Thailand ethical. Speaks for millions, doesn’t read other posts, most notably when others take his/her ludicrous posts seriously, ignores facts and writes in unstructured verse that makes little sense. Hopefully s/he gets paid for this task of dissembling.
Red faces: Unconvincing psych-ops
@Dickie
there are news article where it is mentioned that gov. has forbidden UDD to show the videos and other materials.
there is certain unspoken (or not officially spoken) order or something alike to cover up evidences.
read this :
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/05/21/politics/politics_30103211.php
also gov.’s website launched ESPECIALLY for this purpose (to provide FACTS about 13th Apr) looks like this :
http://www.factreport.go.th/en/
do you think it can be considered seriously – what facts do they provide ?
I don’t know about 156 dead. since the beginning (on that day itself, 5-6am Apr 13th) I’ve heard number 6 to 10 on D-station while it was still broadcasting.
there is VCD produced by UDD (or PT ?) where one guy who has allegedly survived (who jumped from the truck) is giving interview….
I am quite now, waiting for developments. Jatuporn is being quoted saying that’ he’ll file case with police about ABhisit giving order to murder people. also that Reds will reveal evidences before their big rally before June 24th.
althogh they already said similar thing before their rally on May 10th – and it was quite.
so, I am waiting to see the development.
A bird’s eye view of Naypyidaw and other places
The satellite images show just how isolated Than Shwe and his cronies are. Like all dictators, he has built himself a gilded prison in an effort to hide from the people.
If the power ever gets cut, and a few bridges blown, that place will rapidly become a mosquito infested hellhole. Nice.
“No toilet paper but unity!” Burma does social networking
I think you should moderate a little your enthusiasm. In the case of Burma all these forms of communication are just in an embryonal stage, continuously hampered and, above all, the number of web users is one of the lowest all over the world. So, please, warning for the readers: put these remarks in the right context. It’s better to talk about reality than science fiction.
Regards.
Suwicha Thakor on his life in prison
@ Michael #21
we DO bother to respond. sorry that you have no time to discuss ‘ethics’ in thailand.
thailand has more than 60 million friendly people with very few jail inmates.
at least much less than the u.s.a., a model ‘democracy’
self-styled ‘liberator’ & ‘defender of freedom’.
@ Dickie Simpkins #22
thanks for your kind post and humor (gollum…555)
every law has to be debated and amended if needed.
the LM law is NOT ‘medieval’, it’s quite modern.
we do not agree with everything he says,
but read PROF DR BORWORNSAK UWANNO from last month:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/14766/lese-majeste-abuse-and-benevolence
all three parts are here:
http://facthai.wordpress.com/2009/04/14/lese-majeste-thai-culture-and-abuse-of-law-dr-bowornsak/
another recent in-depth-article is:
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/03/06/opinion/opinion_30097261.php
both ‘bangkok post’ and ‘the nation’ are thailands largest and most influential english papers.
you see LM laws are openly debated in thailand.
finally: we don’t like & we don’t need them,
like we don’t need the ‘workers unions’ and ‘churches’.
but we admit & accept that many millions think different!
The violent suppression of opium cultivation
Chupinit Kesmanee talked about large-scale illegal logging following relocation in Western Thailand in three documents published in 1987, 1988 and 1995 (references below). The 1988 and 1995 ones are more or less identical. I can send a copy of these documents by email.
Here’s a long extract of Kesmanee (1987). As you will see, he points out that the pattern of relocation of highlanders followed by illegal logging is reported by several informants in many areas. Its existence is documented by a third party in one area: Mae Wong NP & Khlong Lan NP, Kaemphaeng Phet. As I said before: is it possible professor Miles’ post proves it also occurred in Thung Yai Naresuan WS?
The extract from Kesmanee:
“Stories from various informants in different locations are consistent in one respect, how, after ordering the hilltribes out, government officers conducted logging operation on a large scale under the guise of hilltribe forest destruction. While the widely held view that such stories are made up by hilltribe people intent on revenge may deserve critical attention, not all such stories can be discounted. Take for example the following information obtained by a news reporter who observed a case at first hand. It clearly deserves considerable weight when assessing villagers claims.
‘The evacuation of more than 900 hilltribe families from national parks in Kamphaeng Phet province to protect watershed areas becomes deplorable when government officers turn into forest destroyers and build timber mills on a large scale. The Third Army and the Royal Forestry Department evacuated hiltribes from Mae Wong National Park, Khlong Kha Lung district, and Khlong Lan National Park, Khlong Lan district, Kamphaneg Phet. Beginning with closing off the Khlong Lan-Umphang Road, Tak Province from 28 February earlier this year. After that, checkpoint were set up to forbid movement in and out beyond km. 57 to all but national park staff. IT appears that after getting rid of the previous inhabitants, Mae Wong National Park staff became forest destroyers, bringing in machines and circular saws to set up mobile timber mills working day and night at 4 bases along hillsides between km. 65 and 100. Ten-wheel trucks transporting the wood for sale in Bangkok passed the various checkpoint easily under the claim of being on high-level Royal Forest Department business. Beginning in June 1986, villagers going up to look for forest products saw the logging and were appalled. They secretly photographed the mobile sawmill in operation and took the evidence to prost to the Third Army, the Royal Forest Department, and the Office of the Prime Minister but nothing happened. Then the government officers became alert, stopped the transport of wood, and brought down all the equipment. The matter died down without any investigation or orders for staff transfer. These government officers became much more daring and resumed logging with say and nearly 50 workers … [Thai Rath, 1986, “Hilltribe Evacuation Makes a Sad Story: Various Officers Take Opportunity for Large-Scale Logging”, November 4. (in Thai)]’
“The Thai rath news reporter who visited the area saw teak, rubber trees and makhamong wood from large trees that had recently been felled, as well as milled wood being transported out. He also heard the sounds of trees being cut down and machines milling wood. “ (Kesmanee 1987, p. 26-27)
When I read Professor Miles’ post and wrote my comment, I had in mind the three following interrelated questions:
First, to what extent was the drive for relocating population fuelled by the prospects of quick returns from forest exploitation? The pattern relocation-(il)legal logging discussed in his text is reported in at least four areas between 1986 and 1992: (1) Mae Wong NP & Khlong Lan NP (Kesmanee 1987), (2) Phop Phra Relocation center, Phop Phra district, Tak (Anon 1991), and as part of the Khor Jor Kor project (Pye 2005, p 147-9) in (3) Thap Lan NP/Dong Yai forest (Khorat & Buriram) and (4) Dong Kwang Forest (Phu Phan Mtns area, Sakon Nakhon). Did the same pattern also happen in Thung Yai Naresuan?
Second, did relocating people out of forest areas help increase forest cover? In Phu Langkha, an abandoned area has not rejuvenated into forest cover after several decades. Recently, I spent (some might say wasted) a day or two downloading and comparing satellites images of sites where population resettlement occurred. I was surprised by the results of this very preliminary and sketchy analysis. I looked at four sites from which large populations were resettled : SE Thailand (Chanthaburi/Prachin Buri/Sa Kaeo), Thap Lan NP/Dong Yai forest (Khorat), Doi Luang NP (Lampang) and Mae Wong/Khlong Lan NP (Kamphaeng Phet). In the first two, I saw no changes except further deforestation due apparently to government projects. In the third, there was some very modest reforestation in one area. The analysis in the last area was inconclusive due to the dates the satellites images available were taken (1973, 1989 and 1999, while relocation occurred in 1986). If reforestation occurred, it did so very rapidly between 1986 and 1989. Why has reforestation not followed ? Are these meagre environmental benefits worth the human and financial costs of relocation?
Third, is it possible that in Thailand researchers attempting to explain and combat the spread and persistence of Imperata and other dominant grasses overlook the fact that many of the sites they study have been subject to warfare operations, notably the use of napalm and defoliant and the bulldozing of forests close to the roads? Perhaps, as in Vietnam, recent anthropogenic disturbances are not the only factors one should be investigating.
References
Anon (1991) Tak ranger commander assails resettlement scheme. Bangkok Post, (March 11).
Kesmanee C. (1987) Hilltribe Relocation Policy: Is There a Way Out of the Labyrinth? A Case Study of Kamphaeng Phet. Tribal Research Institute. [available from White Lotus press. Thai version is: Nayobai kan ophayop chaokhao thangook nai khao wongkot: koranee suksa changwat kamphaengphet]
Kesmanee C. (1988) Hilltribe Relocation Policy in Thailand. Cultural Survival Quarterly, 12(4).
Kesmanee C. (1995) Moving Hilltribes People to the Lowlands: The Resettlement Experience in Thailand. In: H. M. Mathur & M. M. Cernea (eds.), Resettlement: Focus on Asian Experiences: Vikas Publishing House PVT LTD.
Pye O. (2005) Khor Jor Kor: Forest Politics in Thailand, Chiang Mai: White Lotus.
“Just leave him alone”
Mehdi could be criticised for overstating the role of “key personalities” in the events of Songkran, and understating the social movements uunderlying the political tensions evident in Thailand.
And yes, he could also be legitimately criticised for not assessing the role and place of the monarchy in the crisis. But he was at least partly right in assessing that many observers all too readily leap to conspiracy theories about the role of royal family.
If a couple of the questioners had left their egos at the front door and actually engaged in an intelligent conversation rather than seeking to embarass the speaker in personal attacks and indulging in self-aggrandisement, that might have contributed to a healthier Q&A session.