Why Thailand is not ready for a democracy?
Each day I will tell you about the problem that Thailand is facing
1) Corruption in Thailand is 100 times more than the US.
Corruption is from top to the bottom versus just the top in the US.
Here are some Examples:
a. Politicians
b. Police
c. Doctors
d. Ministries
e. Military
f. Teachers
g. City inspectors
h. Forestry
i. And many more.
j. Telecommunication
k. And More……
2) Media in Thailand
3) Weak Laws in Thailand
4) Federal government of the United States versus Thailand
I will tell the flaws in the Thai system.
5) The King role as a mediator in case of conflict.
6) Present and the past King role in the Thai history.
7) History of the Thailand and Thai Kings.
8) Thai people itself
9) And More……
For any Thai out there, please email me at [email protected] if you have examples or any inputs. I think most non-Thais think we love our king for no reason, but we have a reason to love our CURRENT King.
Good going! For military history your best live source would be the Assam Rifles HQ in Shillong, Meghalaya. They have their antecedents in the famous V-Force of WWII operating with the legendary Chindits under the redoubtable ‘Uncle Bill’ Gen Slim of the British XIVth. The recruits were local tribal youngmen led by British officers. Of course the heroics of these levies are less sung of than their Kachin counterparts in Burma fighting along with Stilwell’s Americans.
@jason #61
nganadeeleg #54 has intevened on your behalf & you even thanked him for this #55
but you complain again about alleged “threats”.
obviously your brother did not know, that it was YOU who threatened first
and that we were just ‘mocking’ YOU with YOUR OWN words.
quote from YOUR post #33:
“…self pity tears that the dictators of Thailand will cry, when they are held to account… ”
thus we warned HIM to be careful,
not to make a fool of HIMself. he did not listen or respond,
but you seem to speak/attack/defend for him now.
are you twins, sworn eternal mutual support?
or why the two of you are not speaking for yourself but for others??
this behavior does only confuse readers.
is it that what you want?
all readers here know in the meanwhile,
that YOU are the attacker, starting with your post #3 on Mar 4, 2009 at 11:50 pm, then #5 & #10
and we are the defender, starting to defend with #11 on Mar 17, 2009 at 11:54 pm
we just could not stand your ongoing rants against thailand no more.
and we did refer to your insults point by point.
but we tell you what:
we are tired of your rants without one single serious argument
why do YOU think the thai people are too stoopid to govern themselves.
why should YOU ignorant avenger think you know better than these lovely people of 63 million.
and we swear that at least 62,9 million even don’t bother about LM or YOUR long rants.
if YOU want to protect freedom, go & join the freedom-fighters in iraq & afghanistan
but leave the thai people alone, please
jonfernquest: I also have concerns about closing things down. However, can you just remind me of where you said these things about PAD. I’m sure you did, being evenhanded, but the search function at NM seemed not to turn anything up.
Whether one likes it or not, PAD have changed the way politics plays out,at least for the moment.
And a clearly unpopular and unnecessary tussle against hospitals around the Victory Monument with the Red leadership accusing Ratchawithi director of lying about depleting oxygen tanks supplies:
We’re having serious internet problems for two weeks now, however, it seems to be working fine for the moment so I will have to be brief.
We say TIM (This is Myanmar) – because things that are taken for granted elsewhere, basic necessities such as water, electricity, etc are still scarce in a city like Rangoon (Yangon) where I live!
So you can imagine what it would be like to travel to far remote areas in the country.
Regardless of the various opinions, views and insights on this Ghost Road which I still refer to as “Stilwell”, we should not forget that this road is part of a forgotten era of WWII.
My intentions are not to get into the politics or the business potential related to the road. My interest simply lies in the fact that the lives of many people were changed before, during and after this road was built and we still a road that we have so much to learn from.
The one thing I can assure you all is that it will be highly unlikely to see anytime soon, that this road will turn into an all weather road – as Stilwell had wanted to do.
The Ledo Road in Burma going NE from Shingbwiyang is simply fascinating as one goes up into the mountains traversing thick, dense forest with small villages of Naga, Kachin, Rawan and some Burmans living in unpopulated, remote areas.
It will still be a remote area for quite sometime as there is lack of interest from the in-country business people to promote this part of Burma. And that is a good thing.
I’m not a PAD supporter, but I was at the 2006 demos, and the 100,000 plus numbers were accurate. It wasn’t the pro-military pro-PAD who were the only ones saying the red shirts had not achieved anywhere near their claimed numbers. Every foreign news agency estimated similar numbers. Only Aljazeera had a higher number, because they quoted red shirt leaders. Funny, but Channel 3 is owned by Thaksin cronies the Maleenont family, so why would they be pro-PAD? Get your facts straight. Yet a Channel 3 reporter was physically attacked by red shirts for saying the numbers in the day time were in the tens of thousands. Yet the posters here never mention it. So much for your noble red shirts. The hypocrisy on New Mandala is pathetic.
WOW ANU Alumnus#4! Thanks!
It is a matter of time before Bangkokians take matters into their owns hands. The Reds should know better than mess with Thais stuck in traffic (I suspect PMThaksin has lost touch with that reality with a VIP motorcade to usher him around?). With Songkran approaching, a retreat is inevitable:
Nich, I will be interested in your speculations on what the Burmese generals may learn from Thai protests (apart from the more obvious ‘the Thai army is weak and a joke’; ‘why not just shoot ’em Reds’; ‘there’s monks amongst the protestors – shoot them first’!!!).
AjarnSomsak, it may have already backfired in a sense that the Red crowd might have been much bigger than the said 100,000+ on the 8th. If PMThaksin didn’t get too personal and really strategize which of his many ‘enemies’ to take down (e.g. just the Democrats and the military), the crowd might have numbered 300,000-500,000 he has dreamed of and ‘change’ (in the form of house dissolution and new elections) may have already occurred… Moreover, it probably backfired already as PMPrem refused to engage in the war of words and the military refused to come out and crack down on the Red crowd in the name of protecting PMPrem’s honor…
We know that PMThaksin loves the high risk game – which was what much of his years as prime minister was that backfired in successfully dividing Thai society, families, friends against each other. This latest episode could turn out into another in a long series of poorly conceived high-risk game that is more detrimental, than beneficial to Thai society at large. Look, he was the first (and only) prime minister under the 1997 Constitution that held so much promise in terms of really empowering the people. That he messed up grandly is of historical proportions I argue. In the hands of a reform-minded, progressive leader, things would have been very, very different.
Just to clarify — Andrew didn’t write this post. As it says clearly at the top, “These pictures and the following report are from a New Mandala reader in Bangkok”.
this incident took place at a street junction in sathorn today.
Also, just to balance it out on here .. i’ve talked to a good number of white shirts about the road blocks, most of them, if not all, were really angry and said that both democracy and whatever the yellow shirts have done in the past can’t be used as excuses for causing such harvoc, and that this is not how democracy works and how it is acquired in their opinion. They went on to say that the nation should not be taken as a ransom for one man (clearly they don’t think he is a symbol of democracy)
I’ve also surveyed some of the very popular internet forums and the sentiment appears to be in the same direction.
This Thai scholar (don’t remember his name) who was interviwed on NBT yesterday said that there are about 300 definitions of democracy. Wonder what version of democracy you are following here.
have to agree with jonfernquest about you being so naive 🙂
Plenty of live online tv seems to be available from the reds stage – this one was up all last night including Thaksin video phone in: http://www.newskythailand.com/
Amberwaves#6. I agree that numbers are not everything. Another factor worth considering is continuity and staying power. Turning up occasionally is probably much less effective than continuously applied pressure across weeks and months of the PAD. This, ofcourse, also depends considerably on financial resources (which, for instance, the Caravan For the Poor protests did not have although they had staying power). Here I suspect PMThaksin and Pheu Thai MPs are holding back as they also have to make sure they have a competitive ‘war chest’ when the elections occur (somewhere between now- Thaksin/PT scenario – and next year Democrat/Phumjai Thai scenario)…
In fact I see this as aslready a historic achievement of Thaksin, unmatched by any contribution by any intellectual or so-called ‘People’s sector movement’ in recent years.
Better late than never I suppose – It’s amazing what one ambitious man can achieve when his backs against the wall and he make a desperate last roll of the dice trying to regain a lost pot of gold!
Reuters: “The Privy Council is an institution traditionally looked up to as representing the king, and before this protest there was hardly anyone attacking it directly,” said Professor Lae.
“I think the majority of Thais still have this same feeling and this strategy will backfire in the end.”
Back fire in the end? When? How?
I’m surprised to see similar sentiment expressed by Bangkok Pundit on his blog a few days ago. Whether this attack on Prem will ‘back fire’ on Thaksin is a very small issue compared to its significance in historical perspective. In fact I see this as aslready a historic achievement of Thaksin, unmatched by any contribution by any intellectual or so-called ‘People’s sector movement’ in recent years.
Numbers aren’t everything, but it is clear that PAD crowd figures, even taking the most conservative ones in the Thai media, were always inflated , starting in and perhaps especially in 2006. (The PAD’s claimed figures from the stage, especially last year, were often ludicrous, inflated by a factor of ten or more. I don’t think they were meant to be taken seriously, but were just a tactic to keep up the spirits of the faithful).
There are some pretty generally accepted formulas for working out crowd sizes in a given area, which judiciously applied, can at least provide you with a top end figure of what is physically possible. Careful use of Google Maps facilitates calculations considerably.
In one instance, at least, the Red Shirts have a more or less measurable track record. This would be the 1 Nov. 2008 rally at Rajamangala National Stadium, when the stadium was clearly filled to at least its 60,000-65,000 capacity (empty seats in one section were more than compensated for by the crowd on the field). Some media (deliberately?) used photos taken early in the rally before much of the crowd arrived, giving a misleading impression.
truth4ever #6. As I am in Australia, I can only report what I read on those Thai news websites. On that note, can you provide NM readers with your sources that his sisters have not left. More importantly, can you confirm that KYPotjaman, Oak, Aim and UngIng has left the country for “holidays” (as Yaowaret stated) before Wednesday? Because if they have actually left, it supports the point I made in #5 that PMThaksin is willing to sacrifice ANYONE ELSE’S CHILDREN in this high risk gamble BUT HIS OWN…
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The King Never Smiles?
Why Thailand is not ready for a democracy?
Each day I will tell you about the problem that Thailand is facing
1) Corruption in Thailand is 100 times more than the US.
Corruption is from top to the bottom versus just the top in the US.
Here are some Examples:
a. Politicians
b. Police
c. Doctors
d. Ministries
e. Military
f. Teachers
g. City inspectors
h. Forestry
i. And many more.
j. Telecommunication
k. And More……
2) Media in Thailand
3) Weak Laws in Thailand
4) Federal government of the United States versus Thailand
I will tell the flaws in the Thai system.
5) The King role as a mediator in case of conflict.
6) Present and the past King role in the Thai history.
7) History of the Thailand and Thai Kings.
8) Thai people itself
9) And More……
For any Thai out there, please email me at [email protected] if you have examples or any inputs. I think most non-Thais think we love our king for no reason, but we have a reason to love our CURRENT King.
The King Never Smiles?
Do you know that you do not need to conduct a protest in Thailand?
Isn’t that great?
In the US, American are require to have a permit.
The Stilwell Road
Sarah
Good going! For military history your best live source would be the Assam Rifles HQ in Shillong, Meghalaya. They have their antecedents in the famous V-Force of WWII operating with the legendary Chindits under the redoubtable ‘Uncle Bill’ Gen Slim of the British XIVth. The recruits were local tribal youngmen led by British officers. Of course the heroics of these levies are less sung of than their Kachin counterparts in Burma fighting along with Stilwell’s Americans.
Closing the streets at Victory Monument
ANU Alumnus: I’ve seen that video of people heckling and pushing around the Red Shirts several times today.
The way to stop that type of thing seems obvious, at least to anyone who was in Thailand last year.
The Red Shirts should have tough looking young men wearing masks, carrying iron rods and perhaps concealing handguns in their waistbands, as ‘guards.’
Then perhaps people wouldn’t be so inclined to confront them and make such a scene.
I can’t imagine anyone objecting to that, can you? Seeing as how there is solid precedent for it.
On lèse majesté
@jason #61
nganadeeleg #54 has intevened on your behalf & you even thanked him for this #55
but you complain again about alleged “threats”.
obviously your brother did not know, that it was YOU who threatened first
and that we were just ‘mocking’ YOU with YOUR OWN words.
quote from YOUR post #33:
“…self pity tears that the dictators of Thailand will cry, when they are held to account… ”
thus we warned HIM to be careful,
not to make a fool of HIMself. he did not listen or respond,
but you seem to speak/attack/defend for him now.
are you twins, sworn eternal mutual support?
or why the two of you are not speaking for yourself but for others??
this behavior does only confuse readers.
is it that what you want?
all readers here know in the meanwhile,
that YOU are the attacker, starting with your post #3 on Mar 4, 2009 at 11:50 pm, then #5 & #10
and we are the defender, starting to defend with #11 on Mar 17, 2009 at 11:54 pm
we just could not stand your ongoing rants against thailand no more.
and we did refer to your insults point by point.
but we tell you what:
we are tired of your rants without one single serious argument
why do YOU think the thai people are too stoopid to govern themselves.
why should YOU ignorant avenger think you know better than these lovely people of 63 million.
and we swear that at least 62,9 million even don’t bother about LM or YOUR long rants.
if YOU want to protect freedom, go & join the freedom-fighters in iraq & afghanistan
but leave the thai people alone, please
Closing the streets at Victory Monument
jonfernquest: I also have concerns about closing things down. However, can you just remind me of where you said these things about PAD. I’m sure you did, being evenhanded, but the search function at NM seemed not to turn anything up.
Whether one likes it or not, PAD have changed the way politics plays out,at least for the moment.
Imagine the gridlock: Is this how it’s going to happen?
Sidh S
These names you refer to – are they “sisters” of your own making?
Read your own post again – you said his sisters have left the country -I replied you they have not.
Now you change the subject to his ex-wife & children.
You ask me if I know – I dont
t4e
Closing the streets at Victory Monument
And a clearly unpopular and unnecessary tussle against hospitals around the Victory Monument with the Red leadership accusing Ratchawithi director of lying about depleting oxygen tanks supplies:
http://www.thairath.co.th/online.php?section=newsthairathonline&content=132314
The Stilwell Road
Hello Everyone,
We’re having serious internet problems for two weeks now, however, it seems to be working fine for the moment so I will have to be brief.
We say TIM (This is Myanmar) – because things that are taken for granted elsewhere, basic necessities such as water, electricity, etc are still scarce in a city like Rangoon (Yangon) where I live!
So you can imagine what it would be like to travel to far remote areas in the country.
Regardless of the various opinions, views and insights on this Ghost Road which I still refer to as “Stilwell”, we should not forget that this road is part of a forgotten era of WWII.
My intentions are not to get into the politics or the business potential related to the road. My interest simply lies in the fact that the lives of many people were changed before, during and after this road was built and we still a road that we have so much to learn from.
The one thing I can assure you all is that it will be highly unlikely to see anytime soon, that this road will turn into an all weather road – as Stilwell had wanted to do.
The Ledo Road in Burma going NE from Shingbwiyang is simply fascinating as one goes up into the mountains traversing thick, dense forest with small villages of Naga, Kachin, Rawan and some Burmans living in unpopulated, remote areas.
It will still be a remote area for quite sometime as there is lack of interest from the in-country business people to promote this part of Burma. And that is a good thing.
Khine
Red shirts on the march
I’m not a PAD supporter, but I was at the 2006 demos, and the 100,000 plus numbers were accurate. It wasn’t the pro-military pro-PAD who were the only ones saying the red shirts had not achieved anywhere near their claimed numbers. Every foreign news agency estimated similar numbers. Only Aljazeera had a higher number, because they quoted red shirt leaders. Funny, but Channel 3 is owned by Thaksin cronies the Maleenont family, so why would they be pro-PAD? Get your facts straight. Yet a Channel 3 reporter was physically attacked by red shirts for saying the numbers in the day time were in the tens of thousands. Yet the posters here never mention it. So much for your noble red shirts. The hypocrisy on New Mandala is pathetic.
Closing the streets at Victory Monument
WOW ANU Alumnus#4! Thanks!
It is a matter of time before Bangkokians take matters into their owns hands. The Reds should know better than mess with Thais stuck in traffic (I suspect PMThaksin has lost touch with that reality with a VIP motorcade to usher him around?). With Songkran approaching, a retreat is inevitable:
http://www.thairath.co.th/online.php?section=newsthairathonline&content=132299
Reuters on the Thai political unrest
Nich, I will be interested in your speculations on what the Burmese generals may learn from Thai protests (apart from the more obvious ‘the Thai army is weak and a joke’; ‘why not just shoot ’em Reds’; ‘there’s monks amongst the protestors – shoot them first’!!!).
AjarnSomsak, it may have already backfired in a sense that the Red crowd might have been much bigger than the said 100,000+ on the 8th. If PMThaksin didn’t get too personal and really strategize which of his many ‘enemies’ to take down (e.g. just the Democrats and the military), the crowd might have numbered 300,000-500,000 he has dreamed of and ‘change’ (in the form of house dissolution and new elections) may have already occurred… Moreover, it probably backfired already as PMPrem refused to engage in the war of words and the military refused to come out and crack down on the Red crowd in the name of protecting PMPrem’s honor…
We know that PMThaksin loves the high risk game – which was what much of his years as prime minister was that backfired in successfully dividing Thai society, families, friends against each other. This latest episode could turn out into another in a long series of poorly conceived high-risk game that is more detrimental, than beneficial to Thai society at large. Look, he was the first (and only) prime minister under the 1997 Constitution that held so much promise in terms of really empowering the people. That he messed up grandly is of historical proportions I argue. In the hands of a reform-minded, progressive leader, things would have been very, very different.
Closing the streets at Victory Monument
ANU alumnus:
Just to clarify — Andrew didn’t write this post. As it says clearly at the top, “These pictures and the following report are from a New Mandala reader in Bangkok”.
Best wishes to all,
Nich
Closing the streets at Victory Monument
Andrew
take off your red shirt and watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu9DvaUEypQ
this incident took place at a street junction in sathorn today.
Also, just to balance it out on here .. i’ve talked to a good number of white shirts about the road blocks, most of them, if not all, were really angry and said that both democracy and whatever the yellow shirts have done in the past can’t be used as excuses for causing such harvoc, and that this is not how democracy works and how it is acquired in their opinion. They went on to say that the nation should not be taken as a ransom for one man (clearly they don’t think he is a symbol of democracy)
I’ve also surveyed some of the very popular internet forums and the sentiment appears to be in the same direction.
This Thai scholar (don’t remember his name) who was interviwed on NBT yesterday said that there are about 300 definitions of democracy. Wonder what version of democracy you are following here.
have to agree with jonfernquest about you being so naive 🙂
Red shirts on the march
Plenty of live online tv seems to be available from the reds stage – this one was up all last night including Thaksin video phone in:
http://www.newskythailand.com/
Red shirts on the march
Amberwaves#6. I agree that numbers are not everything. Another factor worth considering is continuity and staying power. Turning up occasionally is probably much less effective than continuously applied pressure across weeks and months of the PAD. This, ofcourse, also depends considerably on financial resources (which, for instance, the Caravan For the Poor protests did not have although they had staying power). Here I suspect PMThaksin and Pheu Thai MPs are holding back as they also have to make sure they have a competitive ‘war chest’ when the elections occur (somewhere between now- Thaksin/PT scenario – and next year Democrat/Phumjai Thai scenario)…
Reuters on the Thai political unrest
In fact I see this as aslready a historic achievement of Thaksin, unmatched by any contribution by any intellectual or so-called ‘People’s sector movement’ in recent years.
Better late than never I suppose – It’s amazing what one ambitious man can achieve when his backs against the wall and he make a desperate last roll of the dice trying to regain a lost pot of gold!
Reuters on the Thai political unrest
Reuters:
“The Privy Council is an institution traditionally looked up to as representing the king, and before this protest there was hardly anyone attacking it directly,” said Professor Lae.
“I think the majority of Thais still have this same feeling and this strategy will backfire in the end.”
Back fire in the end? When? How?
I’m surprised to see similar sentiment expressed by Bangkok Pundit on his blog a few days ago. Whether this attack on Prem will ‘back fire’ on Thaksin is a very small issue compared to its significance in historical perspective. In fact I see this as aslready a historic achievement of Thaksin, unmatched by any contribution by any intellectual or so-called ‘People’s sector movement’ in recent years.
See my view (in Thai only, sorry) at :
http://www.sameskybooks.org/board/index.php?showtopic=28246
Red shirts on the march
Numbers aren’t everything, but it is clear that PAD crowd figures, even taking the most conservative ones in the Thai media, were always inflated , starting in and perhaps especially in 2006. (The PAD’s claimed figures from the stage, especially last year, were often ludicrous, inflated by a factor of ten or more. I don’t think they were meant to be taken seriously, but were just a tactic to keep up the spirits of the faithful).
There are some pretty generally accepted formulas for working out crowd sizes in a given area, which judiciously applied, can at least provide you with a top end figure of what is physically possible. Careful use of Google Maps facilitates calculations considerably.
In one instance, at least, the Red Shirts have a more or less measurable track record. This would be the 1 Nov. 2008 rally at Rajamangala National Stadium, when the stadium was clearly filled to at least its 60,000-65,000 capacity (empty seats in one section were more than compensated for by the crowd on the field). Some media (deliberately?) used photos taken early in the rally before much of the crowd arrived, giving a misleading impression.
Imagine the gridlock: Is this how it’s going to happen?
truth4ever #6. As I am in Australia, I can only report what I read on those Thai news websites. On that note, can you provide NM readers with your sources that his sisters have not left. More importantly, can you confirm that KYPotjaman, Oak, Aim and UngIng has left the country for “holidays” (as Yaowaret stated) before Wednesday? Because if they have actually left, it supports the point I made in #5 that PMThaksin is willing to sacrifice ANYONE ELSE’S CHILDREN in this high risk gamble BUT HIS OWN…