I hope and pray for the country (and my fellow Red countrymen in the crowds) that it will survive what ever PMThaksin has in mind. It will be hard enough to survive the global financial meltdown as it is where even the mighty Singapore has already succumbed to recession…
Mighty Singapore has no hinterland to which to retreat and subsist for the duration of the global depression.
But to survive not just whatever is in sociopath Thaksin’s mind but in the minds of the sociopaths at the PAD and in the military as well. What they all have in mind is the least profit for the smallest number of people. They only differ on the identity of the individuals composing that numerically smallest set.
The only way out of all this is for the people to push their “leaders” out of the way and to take charge of their own movements. Top-down “democracy” is conflicted from the start.
Perhaps the spread of the protests to the provinces is a hopeful sign. A super-sandwich making democratic rain.
im really curious about this book. i read its name briefly in another book so i wanted to read the whole thing. i think it will be rather difficult for me to find a hard copy in the united states, right? im just curious about the story and what the author has to say. i have no criticisms toward anyone or anything, just a brain full of curiousity 🙂
I am glad that you have mentioned Phra Supoj Suvacano. I read of his murder just after it occurred and have thought over what seemed to be the utter apathy of the authorities, of everyone, in response to it ever since.
I have written many times to the Bangkok Post and The Nation, trying to help get some visibility at least for Phra Supoj’s murder, as his superior has asked. To keep some pressure on to solve his murder. Nothing. The letters were never printed.
In the intervening four years I have come to the conclusion that the people who so brutally murdered Phra Supoj Suvacano are doubly pleased with their result.
First they have achieved their immediate aims in Fang, I’m sure.
But more importantly from their point of view they have demonstrated their utter ruthlessness and power. They have brutally murdered a Buddhist monk in a nominally Buddhist country and got away absolutely scot free.
In retrospect it occurs to me that the murder of HM King Ananda may well have been undertaken for the same reason.
Ordinary Thai people know now that they have no hope at all in their own country. And that’s what they need to know if the “elite” is to remain in absolute control.
In Thailand the authorities are complicit in the murder of Buddhist monks.
And that’s exactly the message that the “influential people” mean to convey.
By mocking the forces of spirituality, by dragging the aspirations of humankind in the mud, by doing so in broad daylight and walking away absolutely scot free they ensure their hold over the country.
David Brown #48 “some remember how even the immigration offices were organised to be helpful, efficient and not corrupt under the democratic Thasksin governments, compare to before and now”.
Others remember how Purachai, in the year that he was Thaksin’s interior minister, ranted against foreigners and rejected the entire backlog of applicants for permanent residence and Thai citizenship on the grounds that not one of them was qualified in his eyes, whatever that meant. After he got the boot from Thaksin he went off to live in New Zealand (no doubt with permanent residence) where he happily owned land and sent all of his children to private school on funds thriftily saved on his miniscule stipends as a police officer and an academic. No thanks David. Please don’t bring Thaksin or any of his racist cronies back to be in charge of the Immigration Bureau.
“without military support the current government will call democratic elections which will result in some legitimate government that will run Thailand for the benefit of all Thais and, because that means justice and equity will be restored that will benefit you as well” If that means bringing back Thaksin, there will not be justice and equity for all. Thaksin is not a person who respects the rule of law.
My analysis of current situation: I suspect that PMThaksin and the Reds are now trying to to focus the hate to a person and that person is PMPrem. They have learnt through PAD’s ‘success’ that focusing the hate on one person can actually sustain the crowd for very long periods and the call to battle will be around the aims to, as David Brown #48 succintly puts it:
“Prem to resign and either exile or gaol” (and I notice the deep Red commentors in Matichon’s comments section are repeating the same lines)
Maybe it would work – but it may also backfire terribly on PMThaksin’s popularity if Abac polls is representative of what the general population think:
It is a huge risk now that PMThaksin has very publicly taken over running the whole show in parliament and on the streets. If anything goes wrong, he will shoulder all the blame in the minds of the broader public and take the fall (whereas his listed enemies can evenly disperse the blame or one or two can take the fall – the PAD, the Democrats, the military, competing businesses, Newin’s friends and now the Privy counselors). And as I have mentioned in a previous comment, all his enemies are not on the ring here (come to think of it – even PMThaksin is not physically present)…
And it seem for the Democrat government to fall, PMThaksin will have to push the crowd into do something very drastic – or he must provoke a violent crackdown from the police/military (and they must use Chinese-made gas bombs). Maybe he need elements in the military, still loyal to him, to stage a coup against their commanding officers. Maybe he needs the PAD to step in and rally at Sanam Luang and then move to Government House fully armed to attack his Reds. Maybe he needs a ‘third hand’ that fires guns and military grade M79 at the Red crowd… Blood & deaths to test the Reds resolve and possibly to provoke mass anger, anger enough to take over Bangkok’s business districts (Silom and Sathorn) to avoid copying PAD’s takeover of the airport (which is manned by Mr.Newin’s ‘blue-shirts’ to defend his financial interests in King Power and the Ministry of Transport. Besides, I don’t think PMThaksin and the Reds have the guts to take on Mr.Newin as they know full well what he is capable off)…
What can break PMAbhisit’s resolve to yield to his demands?
What is going through PMThaksin’s mind now? How to maintain this momentum for weeks if not months? “May 5” must have some significance as Pheu Thai MPs have pushed for a blanket amnesty bill from the time of the 2006 coup to May 5 (a month or so away) and some drastic, illegal move must have been planned…
I hope and pray for the country (and my fellow Red countrymen in the crowds) that it will survive what ever PMThaksin has in mind. It will be hard enough to survive the global financial meltdown as it is where even the mighty Singapore has already succumbed to recession…
Joy, congratulations on your thesis submission. Is it Dr.Joy now?
LM law will make very minor difference in terms of the Thai populace capacity for ‘critical thinking’. For the sake of illustration, many Western societies that have laws banning Holocaust deniers does not have any effect on those society’s intellectual capacity. That is ‘top-down’ thinking. Education reform, if done sincerely and ‘bottom-up’, will lead to much more effective and sustainable change. On the other hand, I feel it is a myth that Thai’s (or Asians in general) are not ‘critical thinkers’ and I suspect that their ability are comparable to any societies, considering similar socio-economic background and education.
I totally agree with your comment “However, this does not mean that because western societies are not perfect, thailand has no need to strive to be a better nation”. We all have to strive to be better in our respective societies. However, I am merely making the point that it is often quite problematic when we judge other societies/cultures from afar and we give well-meaning but possibly ill-informed advise, or worse, our governments, that we vote for, take drastic interventions without indepth, effective local knowledge (military attack of Iraq) with our medias serving as cheerleaders.
I hope you will have to opportunity to spend more time in Thailand. Please don’t take my word for it, which is based on personal observations and experience than a rigorous academic analysis. I will just add, as an example, that Thai youths of today can get away with a lot more than my generation ever did! In fact they have invented a new language that describes these new, much more liberal social interactions. As another possible illustration, look what the ultra-conservative Mullahs in Iran are publicly saying and look at the urban-based youth culture in Iran. They are of two different worlds…
so peace and quiet that allows you to eke out an existence is the most important thing?
IMHO the way to achieve that is to force Prem to resign and either exile or gaol
this will signal to the military and the justices that have been festering under his wings that they must obey the government or they will go too
without military support the current government will call democratic elections which will result in some legitimate government that will run Thailand for the benefit of all Thais and, because that means justice and equity will be restored that will benefit you as well
a democratic PM can lift the people so that all will, again, want to live and work in a peaceful and cooperative society
some remember how even the immigration offices were organised to be helpful, efficient and not corrupt under the democratic Thasksin governments, compare to before and now
I will be happy if you have any such memories/hopes
BZ – how do you know “A lot of the Thaksin and PAD apologists on this site are well-remunerated expat & local academics and businesspeople living in cloud-cuckooland comfort?”
Good for you for not being one of the “millions of discontented people” being “manipulated.” I am thus surprised that you join the ranks of “boring bastard bloated ego bloggers.”
You say it is “high time to actually do something before this country erupts in civil war” but your own “solution” seems to be for the “entire Thai elite and their well-off apologists [to] eff off to the Turks & Caicos and give the rest of us a chance to scratch out a meagre and reasonably contented existence.” But have you ever thought that it might take a civil war to achieve that? If the whole elite is to be effed off, they’ll have to be pushed, shoved and even killed.
Presumably they will also have had to drain the country’s coffers dry so they can live grandly in the Turks & Caicos. (They should feel at home there as there have been numerous corruption scandals and a suspension of self government.)
nganadeeleg, I don’t see that the Pravit piece necessarily supports your assessment. Since PAD’s campaigns, nastiness has become more commonplace and of course the military and police have long been nasty.
And while there have been a couple of significant incidents – the Chiangmai death, the anti-gay stuff and clashes with PAD, the nastiness coming from the red shirts seems rather mild compared to the constant nastiness from the PAD stage, which also had a much wider audience through ASTV and the Manager publications.
Offensive books and posters being commonplace hardly amounts to being uncivilized. You can get similar pictures and magazines at local book stalls.
The reds may well go off the deep end at some time, but don’t seem imminently dangerous or remarkably uncivilized.
Pravit’s earlier piece (www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=1065) warns that there is a chance that the progressives in the movement might be losing out and that this may weaken the UDD’s claims to be promoting democracy. Pravit is usually pretty astute, so this observation and warning deserves serious consideration.
One thing Mr Strachan seems to have got right here. A lot of the Thaksin and PAD apologists on this site are well-remunerated expat & local academics and businesspeople living in cloud-cuckooland comfort. From the standpoint of my always precarious social & financial nightmare, I would be more than happy if the entire Thai elite and their well-off apologists would eff off to the Turks & Caicos and give the rest of us a chance to scratch out a meagre and reasonably contented existence. I have now even come to think of thaivisa.com, 2bangkok.com, New Mandala and Bangkok Pundit and all the other boring bastard bloated ego bloggers as the spoilt lackeys of this bloody awful political system. It is a sad fact that millions of discontented people CAN be manipulated by both sides in this farce. Can’t you people get it through your thick skulls that regardless of the dubious merits of both sides (I despise both!), it is high time to actually do something before this country erupts in civil war? Your well-honed academic arguments are gong nowhere, on either side!
It depends very much on belief and cultural perceptions. Let make a generalization: Pigs, cows, sheep, chickens, dogs, cats, kangaroos, etc – all are animals; all of them have feelings. So killing this animal is not much different from killing the other ones. And, the Asians kill dogs is not much far different from the dog-lovers kill/eat pigs/pork, etc.
I am a cow lover and I was very shocked that Australians eat too many cows everyday. It is just a joke.
Why do you stay in Australia with a different culture to claim about dog eating in Vietnam and other Asian countries? Do you think that people in India and some other countries are happy with eating beef in Australia? It is just the difference in cultures. In Australia, dogs are human’s friends. In other countries, dogs are just a kind of animal, like chickens, ducks or birds.
Piya Malakul’s account may or may not be accurate and it may or may not be to the point. But to omit the context of Piya’s links to the palace and his long-time role as its PR man is shoddy journalism, and Suthichai knows better. Dishonest would perhaps be the better word to describe it.
Can some NM reader enlighten us as to whether the original Matichon article, to which Suthichai neglected to offer a link, is as negligent?
nganadeeleg # 36
“Portman: Do you know what proportion of the Shincorp shares were owned in Ample Rich (the BVI tax haven company)?”
Thaksin held 11% or 329.2 million shares in of Shin Corp in Ample Rich lodged with UBS Singapore. He sold that block to Temasek’s nominees for approx US$465 million after transferring it back onshore to his children a day or two beforehand.
Temasek gave up the opportunity to take it offshore as foreign registered stock as they were worried about being accused of conspiracy to launder money. Instead they chose to buy it onshore as local stock through a fake Thai company using well connected Thai puyai as nominees who they believed no one would dare question. Neither the buyer nor the seller won any awards for transparency, corporate governance or respect for rule of law.
Gordon’s royal deal …We enjoy some features of a democracy, but our constitution is profoundly undemocratic. It is “not worth the paper it’s not written on” according to one MP. It is one of the least intelligible, least democratic and least accountable constitutions in the democratic world.
The institution itself is damaging to those caught up in it as well as to our democracy. Constitutionally, it has abdicated responsibility for power. For most of the time the Queen is both powerless and pointless.
There is a cosy arrangement in place that allows the government of the day to exercise the Queen’s power in return for political support for the monarchy. Officials use euphemisms to hide the true nature of this deal – they say the Queen acts “on the advice of the prime minister”, meaning she does what she is told. We hear debate about the “royal prerogatives”, which can be more accurately described as “prime ministerial powers”.
The one good thing about this Commons debate is that it raises for many some serious and searching questions about what the monarchy is about…
Would his article be considered an act of lèse–majesté in Thailand?
Amidst all the demands for proof of the possible involvement of General Prem and others in the September 19 coup, there was a fascinating photo that appeared on a website known as Thai Photo Blogs on September 22, 2006, six days after the coup.
The photo purports to show the chiefs of the Thai Army, Air Force and Navy, meeting informally with HM the King, the Queen and General Prem, on Tuesday, September 16, 2007, the very night Thaksin was overthrown. The photo does not give the specific time of day or night it was taken on September 16.
If accurately dated, the photo certainly raises interesting questions about what General Prem and the coup leaders were doing at the palace on the very day or night of the coup.
“Now we have some stability and some accountability, but you just can’t wait to bring back the chaos again, can you?” >> You are actually a “Thaksin nodder” yourself, because it was actually him who wanted to create a Singaporean stule “ning politics” (quiet politics). This yearning for authoritarianism in exchange for peace and wealth seems undefeatable. Somethimes, though, it goes wrong (see Burma). And what if this yearning in effect supports one suppressive group, which is why there are counter-acting groups, which might lead to even bigger chaos if the ruling clique insists of defending its vested interests to the extent the Abhisit-led clique does it now? Just look a little bit deeper, and a little bit ahead of your immediate yearning for a quiet life…
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901, royal politics and Thaksin Shinawatra
I hope and pray for the country (and my fellow Red countrymen in the crowds) that it will survive what ever PMThaksin has in mind. It will be hard enough to survive the global financial meltdown as it is where even the mighty Singapore has already succumbed to recession…
Mighty Singapore has no hinterland to which to retreat and subsist for the duration of the global depression.
But to survive not just whatever is in sociopath Thaksin’s mind but in the minds of the sociopaths at the PAD and in the military as well. What they all have in mind is the least profit for the smallest number of people. They only differ on the identity of the individuals composing that numerically smallest set.
The only way out of all this is for the people to push their “leaders” out of the way and to take charge of their own movements. Top-down “democracy” is conflicted from the start.
Perhaps the spread of the protests to the provinces is a hopeful sign. A super-sandwich making democratic rain.
The Devil’s Discus – in Thai
im really curious about this book. i read its name briefly in another book so i wanted to read the whole thing. i think it will be rather difficult for me to find a hard copy in the united states, right? im just curious about the story and what the author has to say. i have no criticisms toward anyone or anything, just a brain full of curiousity 🙂
UDD – where to?
Ralph Kramden said:
“nganadeeleg, I don’t see that the Pravit piece necessarily supports your assessment”
What assessment?
From the archives: Region of Revolt
I am glad that you have mentioned Phra Supoj Suvacano. I read of his murder just after it occurred and have thought over what seemed to be the utter apathy of the authorities, of everyone, in response to it ever since.
I have written many times to the Bangkok Post and The Nation, trying to help get some visibility at least for Phra Supoj’s murder, as his superior has asked. To keep some pressure on to solve his murder. Nothing. The letters were never printed.
In the intervening four years I have come to the conclusion that the people who so brutally murdered Phra Supoj Suvacano are doubly pleased with their result.
First they have achieved their immediate aims in Fang, I’m sure.
But more importantly from their point of view they have demonstrated their utter ruthlessness and power. They have brutally murdered a Buddhist monk in a nominally Buddhist country and got away absolutely scot free.
In retrospect it occurs to me that the murder of HM King Ananda may well have been undertaken for the same reason.
Ordinary Thai people know now that they have no hope at all in their own country. And that’s what they need to know if the “elite” is to remain in absolute control.
In Thailand the authorities are complicit in the murder of Buddhist monks.
And that’s exactly the message that the “influential people” mean to convey.
By mocking the forces of spirituality, by dragging the aspirations of humankind in the mud, by doing so in broad daylight and walking away absolutely scot free they ensure their hold over the country.
For who dares oppose such men as these?
901, royal politics and Thaksin Shinawatra
David Brown #48 “some remember how even the immigration offices were organised to be helpful, efficient and not corrupt under the democratic Thasksin governments, compare to before and now”.
Others remember how Purachai, in the year that he was Thaksin’s interior minister, ranted against foreigners and rejected the entire backlog of applicants for permanent residence and Thai citizenship on the grounds that not one of them was qualified in his eyes, whatever that meant. After he got the boot from Thaksin he went off to live in New Zealand (no doubt with permanent residence) where he happily owned land and sent all of his children to private school on funds thriftily saved on his miniscule stipends as a police officer and an academic. No thanks David. Please don’t bring Thaksin or any of his racist cronies back to be in charge of the Immigration Bureau.
“without military support the current government will call democratic elections which will result in some legitimate government that will run Thailand for the benefit of all Thais and, because that means justice and equity will be restored that will benefit you as well” If that means bringing back Thaksin, there will not be justice and equity for all. Thaksin is not a person who respects the rule of law.
901, royal politics and Thaksin Shinawatra
My analysis of current situation: I suspect that PMThaksin and the Reds are now trying to to focus the hate to a person and that person is PMPrem. They have learnt through PAD’s ‘success’ that focusing the hate on one person can actually sustain the crowd for very long periods and the call to battle will be around the aims to, as David Brown #48 succintly puts it:
“Prem to resign and either exile or gaol” (and I notice the deep Red commentors in Matichon’s comments section are repeating the same lines)
Maybe it would work – but it may also backfire terribly on PMThaksin’s popularity if Abac polls is representative of what the general population think:
http://www.thairath.co.th/online.php?section=newsthairathonline&content=130346
It is a huge risk now that PMThaksin has very publicly taken over running the whole show in parliament and on the streets. If anything goes wrong, he will shoulder all the blame in the minds of the broader public and take the fall (whereas his listed enemies can evenly disperse the blame or one or two can take the fall – the PAD, the Democrats, the military, competing businesses, Newin’s friends and now the Privy counselors). And as I have mentioned in a previous comment, all his enemies are not on the ring here (come to think of it – even PMThaksin is not physically present)…
And it seem for the Democrat government to fall, PMThaksin will have to push the crowd into do something very drastic – or he must provoke a violent crackdown from the police/military (and they must use Chinese-made gas bombs). Maybe he need elements in the military, still loyal to him, to stage a coup against their commanding officers. Maybe he needs the PAD to step in and rally at Sanam Luang and then move to Government House fully armed to attack his Reds. Maybe he needs a ‘third hand’ that fires guns and military grade M79 at the Red crowd… Blood & deaths to test the Reds resolve and possibly to provoke mass anger, anger enough to take over Bangkok’s business districts (Silom and Sathorn) to avoid copying PAD’s takeover of the airport (which is manned by Mr.Newin’s ‘blue-shirts’ to defend his financial interests in King Power and the Ministry of Transport. Besides, I don’t think PMThaksin and the Reds have the guts to take on Mr.Newin as they know full well what he is capable off)…
What can break PMAbhisit’s resolve to yield to his demands?
What is going through PMThaksin’s mind now? How to maintain this momentum for weeks if not months? “May 5” must have some significance as Pheu Thai MPs have pushed for a blanket amnesty bill from the time of the 2006 coup to May 5 (a month or so away) and some drastic, illegal move must have been planned…
I hope and pray for the country (and my fellow Red countrymen in the crowds) that it will survive what ever PMThaksin has in mind. It will be hard enough to survive the global financial meltdown as it is where even the mighty Singapore has already succumbed to recession…
From the archives: Region of Revolt
Joy, congratulations on your thesis submission. Is it Dr.Joy now?
LM law will make very minor difference in terms of the Thai populace capacity for ‘critical thinking’. For the sake of illustration, many Western societies that have laws banning Holocaust deniers does not have any effect on those society’s intellectual capacity. That is ‘top-down’ thinking. Education reform, if done sincerely and ‘bottom-up’, will lead to much more effective and sustainable change. On the other hand, I feel it is a myth that Thai’s (or Asians in general) are not ‘critical thinkers’ and I suspect that their ability are comparable to any societies, considering similar socio-economic background and education.
I totally agree with your comment “However, this does not mean that because western societies are not perfect, thailand has no need to strive to be a better nation”. We all have to strive to be better in our respective societies. However, I am merely making the point that it is often quite problematic when we judge other societies/cultures from afar and we give well-meaning but possibly ill-informed advise, or worse, our governments, that we vote for, take drastic interventions without indepth, effective local knowledge (military attack of Iraq) with our medias serving as cheerleaders.
I hope you will have to opportunity to spend more time in Thailand. Please don’t take my word for it, which is based on personal observations and experience than a rigorous academic analysis. I will just add, as an example, that Thai youths of today can get away with a lot more than my generation ever did! In fact they have invented a new language that describes these new, much more liberal social interactions. As another possible illustration, look what the ultra-conservative Mullahs in Iran are publicly saying and look at the urban-based youth culture in Iran. They are of two different worlds…
New political force
New political farce!
901, royal politics and Thaksin Shinawatra
BZ….
so peace and quiet that allows you to eke out an existence is the most important thing?
IMHO the way to achieve that is to force Prem to resign and either exile or gaol
this will signal to the military and the justices that have been festering under his wings that they must obey the government or they will go too
without military support the current government will call democratic elections which will result in some legitimate government that will run Thailand for the benefit of all Thais and, because that means justice and equity will be restored that will benefit you as well
a democratic PM can lift the people so that all will, again, want to live and work in a peaceful and cooperative society
some remember how even the immigration offices were organised to be helpful, efficient and not corrupt under the democratic Thasksin governments, compare to before and now
I will be happy if you have any such memories/hopes
UDD – where to?
Thanks Portman.
“Neither the buyer nor the seller won any awards for transparency, corporate governance or respect for rule of law”.
However, both seem to have gotten their just deserts 🙂
901, royal politics and Thaksin Shinawatra
Amberwaves: the Matichon report and its linked CV on Piya is reasonably comprehensive, although some things the reader has to think through themselves. Also see http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2009/03/29/new-surayud-the-privy-council-piya-malakul-and-the-2006-coup/
BZ – how do you know “A lot of the Thaksin and PAD apologists on this site are well-remunerated expat & local academics and businesspeople living in cloud-cuckooland comfort?”
Good for you for not being one of the “millions of discontented people” being “manipulated.” I am thus surprised that you join the ranks of “boring bastard bloated ego bloggers.”
You say it is “high time to actually do something before this country erupts in civil war” but your own “solution” seems to be for the “entire Thai elite and their well-off apologists [to] eff off to the Turks & Caicos and give the rest of us a chance to scratch out a meagre and reasonably contented existence.” But have you ever thought that it might take a civil war to achieve that? If the whole elite is to be effed off, they’ll have to be pushed, shoved and even killed.
Presumably they will also have had to drain the country’s coffers dry so they can live grandly in the Turks & Caicos. (They should feel at home there as there have been numerous corruption scandals and a suspension of self government.)
UDD – where to?
nganadeeleg, I don’t see that the Pravit piece necessarily supports your assessment. Since PAD’s campaigns, nastiness has become more commonplace and of course the military and police have long been nasty.
And while there have been a couple of significant incidents – the Chiangmai death, the anti-gay stuff and clashes with PAD, the nastiness coming from the red shirts seems rather mild compared to the constant nastiness from the PAD stage, which also had a much wider audience through ASTV and the Manager publications.
Offensive books and posters being commonplace hardly amounts to being uncivilized. You can get similar pictures and magazines at local book stalls.
The reds may well go off the deep end at some time, but don’t seem imminently dangerous or remarkably uncivilized.
Pravit’s earlier piece (www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=1065) warns that there is a chance that the progressives in the movement might be losing out and that this may weaken the UDD’s claims to be promoting democracy. Pravit is usually pretty astute, so this observation and warning deserves serious consideration.
901, royal politics and Thaksin Shinawatra
One thing Mr Strachan seems to have got right here. A lot of the Thaksin and PAD apologists on this site are well-remunerated expat & local academics and businesspeople living in cloud-cuckooland comfort. From the standpoint of my always precarious social & financial nightmare, I would be more than happy if the entire Thai elite and their well-off apologists would eff off to the Turks & Caicos and give the rest of us a chance to scratch out a meagre and reasonably contented existence. I have now even come to think of thaivisa.com, 2bangkok.com, New Mandala and Bangkok Pundit and all the other boring bastard bloated ego bloggers as the spoilt lackeys of this bloody awful political system. It is a sad fact that millions of discontented people CAN be manipulated by both sides in this farce. Can’t you people get it through your thick skulls that regardless of the dubious merits of both sides (I despise both!), it is high time to actually do something before this country erupts in civil war? Your well-honed academic arguments are gong nowhere, on either side!
Lunch?
It depends very much on belief and cultural perceptions. Let make a generalization: Pigs, cows, sheep, chickens, dogs, cats, kangaroos, etc – all are animals; all of them have feelings. So killing this animal is not much different from killing the other ones. And, the Asians kill dogs is not much far different from the dog-lovers kill/eat pigs/pork, etc.
Lunch?
I am a cow lover and I was very shocked that Australians eat too many cows everyday. It is just a joke.
Why do you stay in Australia with a different culture to claim about dog eating in Vietnam and other Asian countries? Do you think that people in India and some other countries are happy with eating beef in Australia? It is just the difference in cultures. In Australia, dogs are human’s friends. In other countries, dogs are just a kind of animal, like chickens, ducks or birds.
901, royal politics and Thaksin Shinawatra
What a disgraceful display of distortion by omission is Suthichai’s Yoon’s blog entry on the “conspiracy dinner”!
(http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ThaiTalk/2009/03/29/entry-1
referenced also at http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/03/29/headlines/headlines_30099125.php)
Piya Malakul’s account may or may not be accurate and it may or may not be to the point. But to omit the context of Piya’s links to the palace and his long-time role as its PR man is shoddy journalism, and Suthichai knows better. Dishonest would perhaps be the better word to describe it.
Can some NM reader enlighten us as to whether the original Matichon article, to which Suthichai neglected to offer a link, is as negligent?
UDD – where to?
nganadeeleg # 36
“Portman: Do you know what proportion of the Shincorp shares were owned in Ample Rich (the BVI tax haven company)?”
Thaksin held 11% or 329.2 million shares in of Shin Corp in Ample Rich lodged with UBS Singapore. He sold that block to Temasek’s nominees for approx US$465 million after transferring it back onshore to his children a day or two beforehand.
Temasek gave up the opportunity to take it offshore as foreign registered stock as they were worried about being accused of conspiracy to launder money. Instead they chose to buy it onshore as local stock through a fake Thai company using well connected Thai puyai as nominees who they believed no one would dare question. Neither the buyer nor the seller won any awards for transparency, corporate governance or respect for rule of law.
Debate on lese majeste
Gordon’s royal deal
…We enjoy some features of a democracy, but our constitution is profoundly undemocratic. It is “not worth the paper it’s not written on” according to one MP. It is one of the least intelligible, least democratic and least accountable constitutions in the democratic world.
The institution itself is damaging to those caught up in it as well as to our democracy. Constitutionally, it has abdicated responsibility for power. For most of the time the Queen is both powerless and pointless.
There is a cosy arrangement in place that allows the government of the day to exercise the Queen’s power in return for political support for the monarchy. Officials use euphemisms to hide the true nature of this deal – they say the Queen acts “on the advice of the prime minister”, meaning she does what she is told. We hear debate about the “royal prerogatives”, which can be more accurately described as “prime ministerial powers”.
The one good thing about this Commons debate is that it raises for many some serious and searching questions about what the monarchy is about…
Would his article be considered an act of lèse–majesté in Thailand?
901, royal politics and Thaksin Shinawatra
Amidst all the demands for proof of the possible involvement of General Prem and others in the September 19 coup, there was a fascinating photo that appeared on a website known as Thai Photo Blogs on September 22, 2006, six days after the coup.
The photo purports to show the chiefs of the Thai Army, Air Force and Navy, meeting informally with HM the King, the Queen and General Prem, on Tuesday, September 16, 2007, the very night Thaksin was overthrown. The photo does not give the specific time of day or night it was taken on September 16.
If accurately dated, the photo certainly raises interesting questions about what General Prem and the coup leaders were doing at the palace on the very day or night of the coup.
The photo and caption can be seen at:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thaiphotoblogs.com/media/king_junta.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thaiphotoblogs.com/index.php%3Fblog%3D5%26p%3D215%26more%3D1%26c%3D1%26tb%3D1%26pb%3D1&h=263&w=380&sz=75&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=IL1QR7Vd24IdJM:&tbnh=85&tbnw=123&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthai%2Bcoup%2Bmeets%2Bwith%2Bking%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG
901, royal politics and Thaksin Shinawatra
“Now we have some stability and some accountability, but you just can’t wait to bring back the chaos again, can you?” >> You are actually a “Thaksin nodder” yourself, because it was actually him who wanted to create a Singaporean stule “ning politics” (quiet politics). This yearning for authoritarianism in exchange for peace and wealth seems undefeatable. Somethimes, though, it goes wrong (see Burma). And what if this yearning in effect supports one suppressive group, which is why there are counter-acting groups, which might lead to even bigger chaos if the ruling clique insists of defending its vested interests to the extent the Abhisit-led clique does it now? Just look a little bit deeper, and a little bit ahead of your immediate yearning for a quiet life…