“Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people” by Anonymous.
“…the trails you encounter will introduce you to your strengths. Remain steadfast…and you will build something that endures; something worthy of your potential.” Epictetus 55-135 A.D.
Thank you Jon and Giles Ungpakorn! I stand by you.
Well said Sidh, you have made lots of insightful comments. Thanks! I remember that last time u wrote u agree with the reform of LM law. Now that the PM has stated that he wouldn’t do anything to change/improve it, i wonder what is yr opinion regarding this? There are a number of cases that the PM could prove that he was truly sincere to democratic ideals, but he let all those chances pass without doing anything (including this LM law reform). In fact, growing number of people are losing faith in him because his actions show that he only acts in the interests of the powerful groups in Thai society while hardly bothering at all abt the plight of the powerless or underdog (take for example the Rohingyas’ tragedy, the appointment of highly inappropriate figures to a high position (Mr K. , Mr T etc.)
I better just leave this forum. I have done a wrong turn on Mar 6, got in here by accident. I’ve found myself drawn in anger with people that signed petition to change the LM law. And it kept making me angry thinking about it.
In normal circumstance, I might join your train on improving LM law. Some of what I feel that it’s unfair in some situation. However, in Thailand at the moment, the situation isn’t normal. The fighting between ‘Red Team’ and ‘Yellow Team’ would just go beyond the control. I don’t know who is having hidden agenda or not. So to protect my beloved King and his royal family, I rather not touch LM Law until the circumstance has changed.
And if you all have no bias feeling or any hidden purpose behind this petition, why can’t you wait until the situation has got better. You might find more alliance to join this LM reform.
New Mandala is a good academic forum, I have done my research last nite on it. However, to be used as a tool for political purpose against one country, especially talking about sentisive topic like LM Law where there are many bias people in here. I think it’s wrong. Now I’m out.
A path to a dream indeed. What this man achieves is just dream. As a statesman he is yet to prove himself. And don’t call him a scholar. His performance so far is not in keeping with that label.
Another unfortunate aspect of this draconian mandate to proceed as is to”Protect the Monarchy” is, of course, pushing those who did not like Thaksin into Thaksin’s camp. While they saw bodies lining the streets are were aware of massive corruption under Thaksin, they now see that the alternative is much worse. Jail for speaking. Prison for writing. Incarceration for posting online. Arrest for speaking to someone about the monarchy or one of its members.
My God, why is it so difficult to see this Mussilini-type monster being erected? Are people so in love with illusion? For the sake of the Thai people, I hope not.
International scholars don’t waste their time signing such petitions, but neither do Thai authorities waste time in erecting barriers to free expression, to discolor legitimate counter-arguments and to use force to shut people up.
I would like those who say “please don’t blame when you don’t know.” to carefully consider what you know and what you have been told and where what you believe came from. Did it all come from being forced, expected, taught and brainwashed into thinking, believing and acting the way “Thais” think, believe and act “because they are Thais” or from an imaginary reason that it’s all “because we are Thai.”
This is at the heart of the matter, including Chotisak’s great crime of making a personal voluntary choice of not standing and being threatened with prison because of it. He and many others in the country are being forced, sometimes by physical threat, sometimes by cultural pressure, to abide by what are wrongfully being called Thai culture. Thai culture did not involve standing in theaters that long ago, but then suddenly people were forced to do so. Sure the sign on the movie screen says “Please” but translating it means “Do it or else!” This is part of what it means to be Thai, and part of what it means to believe the way you think Thais are magically supposed to believe. I said before that disunity in Thailand is not a problem – unity is. Such unity produces dogmas, cults and violence in many respects against those who choose not to conform. Then, in reaction, they are told they are falling under foreigner or evil influence or that they are somehow not real Thais. This is all hogwash.
It is refreshing to see honest opinions from especially Thais, and while there is some truth into not being able to 100% fully understand someone because you are not that someone, the philosophy is a two way street: you may not be able to appreciate that someone else does understand you because you have been conditioned to believe that disagreement and activity against what you have been conditioned to believe is somehow wrong, anti-Thai and threatening. Don’t forget that the guys with guns are now spying on your fellow citizens to make sure they don’t speak out of turn. Dismissing the undercurrent implicit in this is a failure to appreciate what is really happening in Thai society. Khun Khamron of the PAD, a Senator, for example, I used to appreciate watching him on ASTV. But now that he is spearheading the draconian “Protect the Monarchy” drive, his hidden agenda is there for all to see. He doesn’t mind if every single one of his fellow Thais and foreigners are all imprisoned as long as the monarchy is protected the way he and his ilk think it should be. this is your real enemy, and not those who would have free speech.
Vengeance? Not really. If I was after that it would have happened long ago. I am attempting to put a proverbial nail in the coffin in the Thai rationale that everything should always be dropped either because it is personal or happened long ago. So many criminal cases here in Thailand are never settled properly because it’s always “give it a rest.”
If it is still acceptable to denigrate Muslims in public without any actions taking place by authorities, when what is Thai society all about? And this is happening not in the south but in the northeast!
Taro, I have some constructive criticism that could help the Thai Monarchy with the reform of the law. I have repeated this several times. Stop the misuse of the law by the Police. The Thai PM has also admitted this is occurring so why not not help him and the Thai Monarchy by focusing efforts and name calling to those that deserve it?
Taro: “And to be honest, now I feel a lot better that I didn’t choose ANU to study at.” Are you being entirely honest? Was choosing ANU an option available to you? More to the point, would ANU have chosen you? I doubt it, having seen your inability to engage in rational argument on this site. I have no doubt that you do have a “master” (sic) degree, but I’m well aware that there is rather a wide range of ‘academic’ institutions offering these in Australia, of various standards, and there are various ways of getting them, some of them not entirely ethical, or in line with conventionally accepted academic norms.
I’m not intending to insult Thai graduates of Australian universities. I have met & worked with a few who obviously do have open & ‘educated’ minds, but I’m getting tired of reading repetitive drivel of the sort that you & a few other Thais & expat ‘Uncle Toms’ are dishing up. You seem incapable of grasping the fact that that the opposition expressed in this debate is not aimed at the institution of Thai monarchy, or the person of the King. It’s aimed primarily at the way this law is being used by ruthless power-mongers outside of the royal family to prevent the possibility of intelligent discussion of issues in which every Thai citizen has a vested interest. And, I am beginning to see that it is being used to another very sinister purpose: to create an atmosphere of paranoia in which the tide of opinion against a government which is at present perceived by a majority of voters as illegitimate, may conceivably be successfully reversed.
The monarchy is perceived as a symbol of unity and dependability by the vast majority of Thai people, who link the growth of its strength during the current reign, coming as it did out of a period of repression and hardship, with the development of a relatively stronger and more evenly distributed economy, the opening up of great opportunities, and many other benefits. If the monarchy were to disappear overnight, there would be widespread confusion and a devastating sense of loss. Most Thais, no matter which side of the political fence, carry a sense that the monarchy is what holds everything together, and that in times of upheaval or upset it is Rama IX who can intervene to make it all better. And they can cite evidence of past events when this has been seen to be so.
In this situation, any threat to the institution of the monarchy or the person of the Monarch cannot possibly be seen as other than a threat to prosperity, stability & social harmony. It follows that if there is an extremely conservative government in a tenuous situation of power, and there is no real threat to the monarchy, the obvious thing to do in order to turn the people conservative & get them behind that overtly royalist & traditionalist government is to manufacture a threat, to develop a strong belief that there are evil forces at work in society, conspiring to overthrow and abolish the monarchy, and that this is a widespread movement. (Of course there is no such widespread movement, but with their cherished King in ill health & economic prospects going downhill, the people are in a fairly suggestible state.)
I’m reminded of the McCarthy era in the States and , more recently, of how George Bush, and Howard in Australia, were reelected due to the perceived threat of terrorism when, in the period leading up to 9/11, it looked as though they would both be thoroughly trounced.
-Peter T said re lese majeste: “There are more important matters of higher priority affecting over 60 million lives in the Kingdom that PM Abhisit & his cabinet members must urgently deal with.”
Prime Minister Abhisit said in January, several times, I believe, that “protecting the monarchy” was one of his administration’s top priorities. His Justice Minister and, as I recall, ICT Minister said it was their TOP priority. So as for misguided priorities, I’d suggest you direct your criticism in their direction.
-Also, Peter T approvingly mentions Charles Keyes standing up during the playing of the royal anthem at a Thai-American event in Seattle. It’s worth noting that Keyes is one of the signatories of the petition.
-As for his assertion that: “If the scholars really care about civil liberty and human rights, I wonder why they were silent when Thaksin and his cronies carried out the war on drugs where over 3,000 people were killed or kidnapped without due process.”
Frankly, I don’t think there is any truth to this assertion at all, it’s a tiresome Manager-style distortion.
Certainly, criticism of the drug war was quicker and sharper from outside Thailand, and I suggest you look to reports by Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International – among others.
The most serious assault on civil liberties in modern Thai history
was the 2003 war on drugs, an apparently officially sanctioned policy
of extrajudicial killing that involved some 2,275 deaths in its initial three months.While the authorities implausibly claimed that most of these killings resulted from drug dealers turning their weapons on each other, there was ample evidence of widespread official collusion in numerous murders…. Local Thai-language media carried little critical or investigative coverage of the drugs war, although one outlet did coin the phrase silent killing (kha tat ton) to
describe the extrajudicial deaths. This dark episode undermined Thailand’s claims to a good human rights record, nullifying many of the country’s recent reforms.
Thongchai Winichakul also seems to have had something to say, according to this 2004 Chang Noi column:
Yes, Joy, ideally AjarnGiles should be brave enough to take responsibility for his actions…
Maybe I should elaborate a bit. A few months ago, AjarnGiles sent off a petition to get signatures for the reform of LM law. Many Thais agree with this and have signed the petition. Then all of a sudden, he flees the country and posts the Red Manifesto, revealing his true much more radical hidden agenda. It is a big slap in the face to those Thais who signed the petition earlier – and there’s little room for interpretation here. He was simply not upfront with them. Furthermore, from the safety/comfort of the UK, he is encouraging his former students and associates in Thailand to carry on potentially dangerous activities. These people are not double-citizens like AjarnGiles who can easily assume another national identity to escape prosecution (and Joy, AjarnGiles is part of the ‘Thai elite’ – socially and intellectually. Don’t underestimate his connections).
This is not taking responsibility. Putting others at potential risk is cowardice. Hence my call for AjarnGiles to come back to face the consequences and work at it from within. Why not become a prisoner of conscience (and make effective use of the good faith of the signatories of his previous petition – which would surely grow with AjarnGiles imprisoned)? PMThaksin, another coward, dares compare himself to the great Nelson Mandela but is lapping in luxury – while Da Thorpedo is languishing in prison for taking PMThaksin’s cues of “person above the constitution” too far. Why isn’t AjarnGile’s brave Red Shirts protesting at the prison to demand Da’s release (cheap, collateral damage?)? Why are they attacking a gay parade in Chiang Mai and protesting farmers in Chiang Rai instead?
AjarnGiles seem to have rejected a previous “Song Mai Ao” position and chose to associate with the Red Shirts (which still baffles me). They strong lack and truly need his rigorous moral and intellectual leadership skills.
I generally agree with your second paragraph except the last part that PMThaksin is “gone”. He is effectively functioning as the leader of the opposition in parliament (Pheu Thai) and on the streets (Reds).
On PMAbhisit, I only want him to have a chance to work as I did want PMSamak and PMSomchai before him (you can search my previous posts in NM on this matter). The downfall of PMSamak and PMSomchai was down to Thaksin’s personal agendas took priority over the country’s interests. For one, the PAD, a highly heterogeneous group is only united by the deep hate of one man. If you don’t believe me, let’s see how successful they are in forming a political party (although this may only be rumours, but I suspect they are testing the response)…
I am a Thai person who would like to tell foreigners Thai’s perspective concerning this institution, our king and our democracy system.
First of all, those who are not Thai and haven’t learn Thai history should know our governing system. Our current system is a mixture of UK democracy. Our system has developed continuously for many hundred years. In Sukhothai kingdom, the kings treated his citizens as fathers took care of children. Even though the governing system has been changed and the kings were accepted as god , those kings still govern and control citizens in the country like they are in a big family.
Secondly, for the point that no one can touch monarchy system. I would say that every country has its own way of thinking and its own way of having life. For me, I automatically respect our beloved king and I am willig to protect him from all accusation. why??? The reason is that I am Thai. Because of being Thai people, I knew what our king has done for us for more than 20 years. If you ask Thai people 10 years ago about their feeling toward our king, i could guarantee that almost 100 percent admired him and respected him without any doubt. Have you ever seen the king from any country try to initiate project that would help people in the long term until the age of 80 like him? He create the artificial rain project; a project that produce rain for farmers in during draught and planting non -toxic plant project which aims to change the habit of the hill tribe from plating marijuana to plants. He cared all levels of Thai people. He did many projects but I named only a few.
Apart from that projects, he acts as the center of Thai people. Legally, he does not relate to the government right now. However, he is the center of Thai people mentally. Again, without any forcing.
Thirdly, I want many of you think about some notices. Why our well respected instutution was posted in many newspaper and magazines during the past few years and why the respect to him reduce in some groups of people. I am not both PAD and red cloth but I am sure that a group of people want to harm the institution. I always heard the news about him and them. If anyone of you want to know, ask your friend who live in Thailand for more than 5 years. If he read Thai newspaper or talk to educated people, they must know.
Last but not least, it is your choice to show your opinion. However, at least, please listen to me, a Thai people who bourned and has stayed in this country about 25 years. I and everybody I know respect him due to the things that he did for the country. Please don’t blame him or our monarchy system if you don’t really know. Almost all of people in our country also think that he was our father even though some people lost in the way due to the plan of some group of people who want to take over the power. The government did not block such websites or punish people who blame him or monarchy system because no one can touch. But, that people or website are going to defamous a person who is exceptionally respected in the country. Furthermore, that media inform only a black point aimed to deteriorate our king and our monarchy system. Imigine, is it proper if you blamed parents whom were respected by kids, and then are claimed that the right of people in the family is not well shared.
If you really want to know the truth, please do not read only few famous international magazines. Read more. Read our Thai’s, both thai ones and English ones. Do you know that some newspapers are interfered by that guy…. a famous person who is travelling around the world 555.
Lee Jones, I will give you the benefit of the doubt about not wanting PMAbhisit to be disinvited…
However, regardless whether the letter was ‘leaked’ or not, as an academic, I will hold you up to task to all the statements you made culminating in the totally inaccurate “… In reality there is neither freedom of speech nor academic freedom nor democracy in Thailand today”. Let us not differentiate between whether the letter is meant for public consumption or specifically for SirMichael. A false statement is a false statement. Period.
Apart from my earlier prescription, Jonfernquest’s #5 is quite fair and reasonable. At the very least, please, please spend some time in Thailand. Talk to the Reds, the Yellows, the Whites and all other colors; Read the Nation, Bangkok Post, and get someone to translate Thairath, Manager, Matichon news etc. for you; find an opportunity to attend a Thai election whether it is for AorBorTor, MPs, Senators, Mayors etc…etc… Then re-read your letter…
You think every Thai feels the same as you, thinks the same as you about the monarchy, but the truth is quite different.
With or without lese majeste, there has always been criticism of the monarchy, rebellion against the monarchy by Thai people, regardless of the reign or the righteousness of the king, regardless of what the farang think, say, or do.
Predictably, you will probably say that any Thai who is critical of the monarchy isn’t really Thai, because that is normally the knee jerk response by right-wing monarchists who can’t imagine anything else than what is produced on the 6 pm news or in the royalist cradle to grave propaganda.
Is Pridi Banomyong not a real Thai? Is Plaek Phibunsongkram not a real Thai? What about the princes who conspired to over throw the absolute monarchy?
If you look at the history of the Chakri Dynasty, going further back into the Ayutthaya period as well, there was always rebellion against the monarchy by Thai people. There is a long history of regicide, fratricide, internal rebellion, lese majeste, crushing of dissent, purges and pograms in Thailand.
This notion that all Thai people have been living under a righteous of a Dhammaraja king beloved by all subjects since the times of Sukhotai is a lie and a myth. This fantasy has never existed in the entire history of Siam.
It is unfortunate that you are too ignorant of Thai history to see that the monarchy could be sustained and better served if criticism of the monarchy be allowed to lawfully exist in the open rather than lurk in the shadows of the conspirators.
If you are Thai, that most likely makes you a Buddhist, and if you are a Buddhist, then you should be able to comprehend that your attachment to what other people think of the monarchy really has nothing to do with the king or with Thailand, but with you. Why does it matter to you what academics, journalists, bloggers and posters have to say about the monarchy? Do you really think the monarchy is threatened or protected by the lese majeste law or its reformation? Do you really think your identity as a Thai is threatened by a small group of farang talking about it? I kindly suggest that neither the monarchy nor your identity as a Thai is threatened by academic or journalistic criticism of the monarchy made by any farang, or Thai, or anybody else.
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A lese majeste event in Bangkok
Sorry Flashman,
I don’t quite follow. Where is the page blocked? It would be good to have some more details.
Best wishes,
NSF
A lese majeste event in Bangkok
Ahh here we go, Mar 11, page is blocked. Guess there is still some pretence of impartiality in their censorship.
Report on “Lèse Majesté in Thailand: The Enemy of Democracy”
“Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people” by Anonymous.
“…the trails you encounter will introduce you to your strengths. Remain steadfast…and you will build something that endures; something worthy of your potential.” Epictetus 55-135 A.D.
Thank you Jon and Giles Ungpakorn! I stand by you.
New Mandala on lese majeste
Well said Sidh, you have made lots of insightful comments. Thanks! I remember that last time u wrote u agree with the reform of LM law. Now that the PM has stated that he wouldn’t do anything to change/improve it, i wonder what is yr opinion regarding this? There are a number of cases that the PM could prove that he was truly sincere to democratic ideals, but he let all those chances pass without doing anything (including this LM law reform). In fact, growing number of people are losing faith in him because his actions show that he only acts in the interests of the powerful groups in Thai society while hardly bothering at all abt the plight of the powerless or underdog (take for example the Rohingyas’ tragedy, the appointment of highly inappropriate figures to a high position (Mr K. , Mr T etc.)
“Don’t study at the ANU”
I better just leave this forum. I have done a wrong turn on Mar 6, got in here by accident. I’ve found myself drawn in anger with people that signed petition to change the LM law. And it kept making me angry thinking about it.
In normal circumstance, I might join your train on improving LM law. Some of what I feel that it’s unfair in some situation. However, in Thailand at the moment, the situation isn’t normal. The fighting between ‘Red Team’ and ‘Yellow Team’ would just go beyond the control. I don’t know who is having hidden agenda or not. So to protect my beloved King and his royal family, I rather not touch LM Law until the circumstance has changed.
And if you all have no bias feeling or any hidden purpose behind this petition, why can’t you wait until the situation has got better. You might find more alliance to join this LM reform.
New Mandala is a good academic forum, I have done my research last nite on it. However, to be used as a tool for political purpose against one country, especially talking about sentisive topic like LM Law where there are many bias people in here. I think it’s wrong. Now I’m out.
Best Regards,
Taro Mongkoltip
Time for an Oxford Scholar
A path to a dream indeed. What this man achieves is just dream. As a statesman he is yet to prove himself. And don’t call him a scholar. His performance so far is not in keeping with that label.
International scholars call for reform of Thailand’s lese majeste law
Another unfortunate aspect of this draconian mandate to proceed as is to”Protect the Monarchy” is, of course, pushing those who did not like Thaksin into Thaksin’s camp. While they saw bodies lining the streets are were aware of massive corruption under Thaksin, they now see that the alternative is much worse. Jail for speaking. Prison for writing. Incarceration for posting online. Arrest for speaking to someone about the monarchy or one of its members.
My God, why is it so difficult to see this Mussilini-type monster being erected? Are people so in love with illusion? For the sake of the Thai people, I hope not.
International scholars don’t waste their time signing such petitions, but neither do Thai authorities waste time in erecting barriers to free expression, to discolor legitimate counter-arguments and to use force to shut people up.
International scholars call for reform of Thailand’s lese majeste law
I would like those who say “please don’t blame when you don’t know.” to carefully consider what you know and what you have been told and where what you believe came from. Did it all come from being forced, expected, taught and brainwashed into thinking, believing and acting the way “Thais” think, believe and act “because they are Thais” or from an imaginary reason that it’s all “because we are Thai.”
This is at the heart of the matter, including Chotisak’s great crime of making a personal voluntary choice of not standing and being threatened with prison because of it. He and many others in the country are being forced, sometimes by physical threat, sometimes by cultural pressure, to abide by what are wrongfully being called Thai culture. Thai culture did not involve standing in theaters that long ago, but then suddenly people were forced to do so. Sure the sign on the movie screen says “Please” but translating it means “Do it or else!” This is part of what it means to be Thai, and part of what it means to believe the way you think Thais are magically supposed to believe. I said before that disunity in Thailand is not a problem – unity is. Such unity produces dogmas, cults and violence in many respects against those who choose not to conform. Then, in reaction, they are told they are falling under foreigner or evil influence or that they are somehow not real Thais. This is all hogwash.
It is refreshing to see honest opinions from especially Thais, and while there is some truth into not being able to 100% fully understand someone because you are not that someone, the philosophy is a two way street: you may not be able to appreciate that someone else does understand you because you have been conditioned to believe that disagreement and activity against what you have been conditioned to believe is somehow wrong, anti-Thai and threatening. Don’t forget that the guys with guns are now spying on your fellow citizens to make sure they don’t speak out of turn. Dismissing the undercurrent implicit in this is a failure to appreciate what is really happening in Thai society. Khun Khamron of the PAD, a Senator, for example, I used to appreciate watching him on ASTV. But now that he is spearheading the draconian “Protect the Monarchy” drive, his hidden agenda is there for all to see. He doesn’t mind if every single one of his fellow Thais and foreigners are all imprisoned as long as the monarchy is protected the way he and his ilk think it should be. this is your real enemy, and not those who would have free speech.
International scholars call for reform of Thailand’s lese majeste law
Vengeance? Not really. If I was after that it would have happened long ago. I am attempting to put a proverbial nail in the coffin in the Thai rationale that everything should always be dropped either because it is personal or happened long ago. So many criminal cases here in Thailand are never settled properly because it’s always “give it a rest.”
If it is still acceptable to denigrate Muslims in public without any actions taking place by authorities, when what is Thai society all about? And this is happening not in the south but in the northeast!
Time for an Oxford Scholar
A must have in my private library!
International scholars call for reform of Thailand’s lese majeste law
Taro, I have some constructive criticism that could help the Thai Monarchy with the reform of the law. I have repeated this several times. Stop the misuse of the law by the Police. The Thai PM has also admitted this is occurring so why not not help him and the Thai Monarchy by focusing efforts and name calling to those that deserve it?
“Don’t study at the ANU”
Taro: “And to be honest, now I feel a lot better that I didn’t choose ANU to study at.” Are you being entirely honest? Was choosing ANU an option available to you? More to the point, would ANU have chosen you? I doubt it, having seen your inability to engage in rational argument on this site. I have no doubt that you do have a “master” (sic) degree, but I’m well aware that there is rather a wide range of ‘academic’ institutions offering these in Australia, of various standards, and there are various ways of getting them, some of them not entirely ethical, or in line with conventionally accepted academic norms.
I’m not intending to insult Thai graduates of Australian universities. I have met & worked with a few who obviously do have open & ‘educated’ minds, but I’m getting tired of reading repetitive drivel of the sort that you & a few other Thais & expat ‘Uncle Toms’ are dishing up. You seem incapable of grasping the fact that that the opposition expressed in this debate is not aimed at the institution of Thai monarchy, or the person of the King. It’s aimed primarily at the way this law is being used by ruthless power-mongers outside of the royal family to prevent the possibility of intelligent discussion of issues in which every Thai citizen has a vested interest. And, I am beginning to see that it is being used to another very sinister purpose: to create an atmosphere of paranoia in which the tide of opinion against a government which is at present perceived by a majority of voters as illegitimate, may conceivably be successfully reversed.
The monarchy is perceived as a symbol of unity and dependability by the vast majority of Thai people, who link the growth of its strength during the current reign, coming as it did out of a period of repression and hardship, with the development of a relatively stronger and more evenly distributed economy, the opening up of great opportunities, and many other benefits. If the monarchy were to disappear overnight, there would be widespread confusion and a devastating sense of loss. Most Thais, no matter which side of the political fence, carry a sense that the monarchy is what holds everything together, and that in times of upheaval or upset it is Rama IX who can intervene to make it all better. And they can cite evidence of past events when this has been seen to be so.
In this situation, any threat to the institution of the monarchy or the person of the Monarch cannot possibly be seen as other than a threat to prosperity, stability & social harmony. It follows that if there is an extremely conservative government in a tenuous situation of power, and there is no real threat to the monarchy, the obvious thing to do in order to turn the people conservative & get them behind that overtly royalist & traditionalist government is to manufacture a threat, to develop a strong belief that there are evil forces at work in society, conspiring to overthrow and abolish the monarchy, and that this is a widespread movement. (Of course there is no such widespread movement, but with their cherished King in ill health & economic prospects going downhill, the people are in a fairly suggestible state.)
I’m reminded of the McCarthy era in the States and , more recently, of how George Bush, and Howard in Australia, were reelected due to the perceived threat of terrorism when, in the period leading up to 9/11, it looked as though they would both be thoroughly trounced.
What do others think?
International scholars call for reform of Thailand’s lese majeste law
Frank, you have had a long running dispute with this women, give vengeance a rest. You are a smart guy with a lot to say which is right. Let it be.
International scholars call for reform of Thailand’s lese majeste law
-Peter T said re lese majeste: “There are more important matters of higher priority affecting over 60 million lives in the Kingdom that PM Abhisit & his cabinet members must urgently deal with.”
Prime Minister Abhisit said in January, several times, I believe, that “protecting the monarchy” was one of his administration’s top priorities. His Justice Minister and, as I recall, ICT Minister said it was their TOP priority. So as for misguided priorities, I’d suggest you direct your criticism in their direction.
-Also, Peter T approvingly mentions Charles Keyes standing up during the playing of the royal anthem at a Thai-American event in Seattle. It’s worth noting that Keyes is one of the signatories of the petition.
-As for his assertion that: “If the scholars really care about civil liberty and human rights, I wonder why they were silent when Thaksin and his cronies carried out the war on drugs where over 3,000 people were killed or kidnapped without due process.”
Frankly, I don’t think there is any truth to this assertion at all, it’s a tiresome Manager-style distortion.
Certainly, criticism of the drug war was quicker and sharper from outside Thailand, and I suggest you look to reports by Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International – among others.
As for the scholar signatories, with limited time and resources, I can see that Duncan McCargo said this in a 2005 Freedom House report: (http://www.freedomhouse.org/modules/publications/ccr/modPrintVersion.cfm?edition=2&ccrpage=8&ccrcountry=101)
The most serious assault on civil liberties in modern Thai history
was the 2003 war on drugs, an apparently officially sanctioned policy
of extrajudicial killing that involved some 2,275 deaths in its initial three months.While the authorities implausibly claimed that most of these killings resulted from drug dealers turning their weapons on each other, there was ample evidence of widespread official collusion in numerous murders…. Local Thai-language media carried little critical or investigative coverage of the drugs war, although one outlet did coin the phrase silent killing (kha tat ton) to
describe the extrajudicial deaths. This dark episode undermined Thailand’s claims to a good human rights record, nullifying many of the country’s recent reforms.
Thongchai Winichakul also seems to have had something to say, according to this 2004 Chang Noi column:
http://www.geocities.com/changnoi2/thugs.htm
Further details on Giles’ Oxford talk
For the sake of completeness, here are time and place of Ji’s planned talk at Leeds University:
Giles Ji Ungpakorn “Lese-Majesty: An Obstacle to Democracy in Thailand?”
Tuesday, 17th March, 5:30 pm
Rupert Beckett lecture theatre
New Mandala on lese majeste
Yes, Joy, ideally AjarnGiles should be brave enough to take responsibility for his actions…
Maybe I should elaborate a bit. A few months ago, AjarnGiles sent off a petition to get signatures for the reform of LM law. Many Thais agree with this and have signed the petition. Then all of a sudden, he flees the country and posts the Red Manifesto, revealing his true much more radical hidden agenda. It is a big slap in the face to those Thais who signed the petition earlier – and there’s little room for interpretation here. He was simply not upfront with them. Furthermore, from the safety/comfort of the UK, he is encouraging his former students and associates in Thailand to carry on potentially dangerous activities. These people are not double-citizens like AjarnGiles who can easily assume another national identity to escape prosecution (and Joy, AjarnGiles is part of the ‘Thai elite’ – socially and intellectually. Don’t underestimate his connections).
This is not taking responsibility. Putting others at potential risk is cowardice. Hence my call for AjarnGiles to come back to face the consequences and work at it from within. Why not become a prisoner of conscience (and make effective use of the good faith of the signatories of his previous petition – which would surely grow with AjarnGiles imprisoned)? PMThaksin, another coward, dares compare himself to the great Nelson Mandela but is lapping in luxury – while Da Thorpedo is languishing in prison for taking PMThaksin’s cues of “person above the constitution” too far. Why isn’t AjarnGile’s brave Red Shirts protesting at the prison to demand Da’s release (cheap, collateral damage?)? Why are they attacking a gay parade in Chiang Mai and protesting farmers in Chiang Rai instead?
AjarnGiles seem to have rejected a previous “Song Mai Ao” position and chose to associate with the Red Shirts (which still baffles me). They strong lack and truly need his rigorous moral and intellectual leadership skills.
I generally agree with your second paragraph except the last part that PMThaksin is “gone”. He is effectively functioning as the leader of the opposition in parliament (Pheu Thai) and on the streets (Reds).
On PMAbhisit, I only want him to have a chance to work as I did want PMSamak and PMSomchai before him (you can search my previous posts in NM on this matter). The downfall of PMSamak and PMSomchai was down to Thaksin’s personal agendas took priority over the country’s interests. For one, the PAD, a highly heterogeneous group is only united by the deep hate of one man. If you don’t believe me, let’s see how successful they are in forming a political party (although this may only be rumours, but I suspect they are testing the response)…
Report on “Lèse Majesté in Thailand: The Enemy of Democracy”
To Comrade Ji, Wasn’t you who say “I’m pround of not being Thai (Chinese Father + English Mom)”????
You’re not worth to live in my beloved country…..
Do you think only your Marxist theory right? The others are wrong!!! Please beware it is just your Dithi….
Whoso dose not know dhamma (the universal truth) – must be as you are today.
International scholars call for reform of Thailand’s lese majeste law
I am a Thai person who would like to tell foreigners Thai’s perspective concerning this institution, our king and our democracy system.
First of all, those who are not Thai and haven’t learn Thai history should know our governing system. Our current system is a mixture of UK democracy. Our system has developed continuously for many hundred years. In Sukhothai kingdom, the kings treated his citizens as fathers took care of children. Even though the governing system has been changed and the kings were accepted as god , those kings still govern and control citizens in the country like they are in a big family.
Secondly, for the point that no one can touch monarchy system. I would say that every country has its own way of thinking and its own way of having life. For me, I automatically respect our beloved king and I am willig to protect him from all accusation. why??? The reason is that I am Thai. Because of being Thai people, I knew what our king has done for us for more than 20 years. If you ask Thai people 10 years ago about their feeling toward our king, i could guarantee that almost 100 percent admired him and respected him without any doubt. Have you ever seen the king from any country try to initiate project that would help people in the long term until the age of 80 like him? He create the artificial rain project; a project that produce rain for farmers in during draught and planting non -toxic plant project which aims to change the habit of the hill tribe from plating marijuana to plants. He cared all levels of Thai people. He did many projects but I named only a few.
Apart from that projects, he acts as the center of Thai people. Legally, he does not relate to the government right now. However, he is the center of Thai people mentally. Again, without any forcing.
Thirdly, I want many of you think about some notices. Why our well respected instutution was posted in many newspaper and magazines during the past few years and why the respect to him reduce in some groups of people. I am not both PAD and red cloth but I am sure that a group of people want to harm the institution. I always heard the news about him and them. If anyone of you want to know, ask your friend who live in Thailand for more than 5 years. If he read Thai newspaper or talk to educated people, they must know.
Last but not least, it is your choice to show your opinion. However, at least, please listen to me, a Thai people who bourned and has stayed in this country about 25 years. I and everybody I know respect him due to the things that he did for the country. Please don’t blame him or our monarchy system if you don’t really know. Almost all of people in our country also think that he was our father even though some people lost in the way due to the plan of some group of people who want to take over the power. The government did not block such websites or punish people who blame him or monarchy system because no one can touch. But, that people or website are going to defamous a person who is exceptionally respected in the country. Furthermore, that media inform only a black point aimed to deteriorate our king and our monarchy system. Imigine, is it proper if you blamed parents whom were respected by kids, and then are claimed that the right of people in the family is not well shared.
If you really want to know the truth, please do not read only few famous international magazines. Read more. Read our Thai’s, both thai ones and English ones. Do you know that some newspapers are interfered by that guy…. a famous person who is travelling around the world 555.
noi
Lee Jones on Abhisit in Oxford
Lee Jones, I will give you the benefit of the doubt about not wanting PMAbhisit to be disinvited…
However, regardless whether the letter was ‘leaked’ or not, as an academic, I will hold you up to task to all the statements you made culminating in the totally inaccurate “… In reality there is neither freedom of speech nor academic freedom nor democracy in Thailand today”. Let us not differentiate between whether the letter is meant for public consumption or specifically for SirMichael. A false statement is a false statement. Period.
Apart from my earlier prescription, Jonfernquest’s #5 is quite fair and reasonable. At the very least, please, please spend some time in Thailand. Talk to the Reds, the Yellows, the Whites and all other colors; Read the Nation, Bangkok Post, and get someone to translate Thairath, Manager, Matichon news etc. for you; find an opportunity to attend a Thai election whether it is for AorBorTor, MPs, Senators, Mayors etc…etc… Then re-read your letter…
International scholars call for reform of Thailand’s lese majeste law
Khun Taro-
You think every Thai feels the same as you, thinks the same as you about the monarchy, but the truth is quite different.
With or without lese majeste, there has always been criticism of the monarchy, rebellion against the monarchy by Thai people, regardless of the reign or the righteousness of the king, regardless of what the farang think, say, or do.
Predictably, you will probably say that any Thai who is critical of the monarchy isn’t really Thai, because that is normally the knee jerk response by right-wing monarchists who can’t imagine anything else than what is produced on the 6 pm news or in the royalist cradle to grave propaganda.
Is Pridi Banomyong not a real Thai? Is Plaek Phibunsongkram not a real Thai? What about the princes who conspired to over throw the absolute monarchy?
If you look at the history of the Chakri Dynasty, going further back into the Ayutthaya period as well, there was always rebellion against the monarchy by Thai people. There is a long history of regicide, fratricide, internal rebellion, lese majeste, crushing of dissent, purges and pograms in Thailand.
This notion that all Thai people have been living under a righteous of a Dhammaraja king beloved by all subjects since the times of Sukhotai is a lie and a myth. This fantasy has never existed in the entire history of Siam.
It is unfortunate that you are too ignorant of Thai history to see that the monarchy could be sustained and better served if criticism of the monarchy be allowed to lawfully exist in the open rather than lurk in the shadows of the conspirators.
If you are Thai, that most likely makes you a Buddhist, and if you are a Buddhist, then you should be able to comprehend that your attachment to what other people think of the monarchy really has nothing to do with the king or with Thailand, but with you. Why does it matter to you what academics, journalists, bloggers and posters have to say about the monarchy? Do you really think the monarchy is threatened or protected by the lese majeste law or its reformation? Do you really think your identity as a Thai is threatened by a small group of farang talking about it? I kindly suggest that neither the monarchy nor your identity as a Thai is threatened by academic or journalistic criticism of the monarchy made by any farang, or Thai, or anybody else.